http://www.huffingtonpost.com/lawrence-b-wilkerson/the-taliban-in-our-midst_b_7421578.html
Quote from: Solitary on June 03, 2015, 11:49:27 AM
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/lawrence-b-wilkerson/the-taliban-in-our-midst_b_7421578.html
Thanks for the article. In this country (and I imagine everywhere else, too) god and the military have maintained a real love affair. What gets a very religious person going more than killing for god?!!!Organized religion begets a real zeal and love for war. Always have--always will.
When people are taught by indoctrination to kill or be killed for a belief, they are being used to benefit the leaders, whether religious, military, or politicians, in my opinion. I support our teenage troops because they need our support for morel, but I sure don't support the politicians, religious leaders or military leaders who do think every problem can be solved by violence. When you make, even children, think they will always exist and not die but be transformed, or go against their instincts for self preservation, I think it is not only child abuse, but evil as you can get, in my opinion. :wall:
Quote from: Mike Cl on June 03, 2015, 02:55:00 PM
Thanks for the article. In this country (and I imagine everywhere else, too) god and the military have maintained a real love affair. What gets a very religious person going more than killing for god?!!!Organized religion begets a real zeal and love for war. Always have--always will.
According to
Blue Letter bible (http://blueletterbible.org), the word "war" occurs 225 times in 220 verses in the KJV. Here're just a couple:
Exo 15:3
The LORD is a man of war: the LORD is his name.
Psa 18:34
He teacheth my hands to war, so that a bow of steel is broken by mine arms.
And, of course, the one all the hawks know and love:
Joe 3:10
Beat your plowshares into swords, and your pruninghooks into spears: let the weak say, I am strong.
That doesn't mean squat, look at the Qur'an!
OK, I just went to Quran Browser (http://quranbrowser.com) and found that there are 177 references to "war" in the Quran. Respectable, but the Bible still has it beat. :surprised:
Yeah. The Air Force appears to be the biggest offender of advocating Christianity within their service and while in uniform.
Jesus said "Blessed are the peacemakers." Now kill, kill, kill!!!
You can't be a peacekeeping force if you can't kill everything in the area of operations.
When every living thing upon the Earth has been obliterated, peace will reign forevermore : war is peace!
Quote from: Mike Cl on June 03, 2015, 02:55:00 PM
...In this country (and I imagine everywhere else, too) god and the military have maintained a real love affair. What gets a very religious person going more than killing for god?!!!Organized religion begets a real zeal and love for war. Always have--always will.
The real love affair is maintained between military and nationalism. Nationalism is the religion of the modern state. Religion was born of 'nationalism' -not in the sense we know today- but in the sense of community, society. And nationalism rules over atheists and seculars as easy as it does over the religious. Religious is simple, nationalist is not. Religious has to change rhetorics to adapt and survive, nationalism does not. The former feeds on human reality and its simple fears and ignorance, while the latter is just invented 200 years back to raise the modern state and feeds on imaginary historical perceptions, self convictions, self love, economics, domestic and international politics, draw peoples apart in a fundamental scale so they can be used against each other easily and further that they would be glorified for that. You can't brainwash an atheist with religious delusion, but you can brainwash nonreligious, religious, atheist, theist, deist, pantheist, this and that...etc anyone with nationalism and make them do anything pointing patriotism to their head. And they will do it glady, they won't think for a moment.
Religion is just a means of nationalism today. Not the other way around, contrary to the common belief. (Pun intended.)
Did you know that national armies have just been around for 200 years ? And before that an army anywhere included a very diverse mass of soldiers? (So much that language has always been a lot of problem and that's actually how we get the most of it.) It explains a lot about the modern age kind of violence and mass destruction doesn't it?
One day, if we can beat religions and gods, would we ever be able to beat the most powerful fanatism of it all?
Quote from: kilodelta on June 03, 2015, 05:20:09 PM
Yeah. The Air Force appears to be the biggest offender of advocating Christianity within their service and while in uniform.
On CF the conservatives were whining like bitches when they made the "so help me God" part optional. One of them had the nerve to call atheists "petty," saying that serving the country should be more important than any hangup about the oath.
I reminded him that under no uncertain terms would be ever say "so help me Allah" for any reason, and said this was proof that Christians in America had a the massive sense of entitlement that they accused liberals of having. Strangely enough, no response.
Quote from: Unbeliever on June 03, 2015, 04:55:53 PM
OK, I just went to Quran Browser (http://quranbrowser.com) and found that there are 177 references to "war" in the Quran. Respectable, but the Bible still has it beat. :surprised:
I can believe that, they are both based on the authority of religion rather than the authority of truth.
Quote from: Savior2006 on June 03, 2015, 06:18:01 PM
On CF the conservatives were whining like bitches when they made the "so help me God" part optional. One of them had the nerve to call atheists "petty," saying that serving the country should be more important than any hangup about the oath.
I reminded him that under no uncertain terms would be ever say "so help me Allah" for any reason, and said this was proof that Christians in America had a the massive sense of entitlement that they accused liberals of having. Strangely enough, no response.
Some of them are petty in the Navy. He! He!
Quote from: Solitary on June 03, 2015, 03:45:23 PM
When people are taught by indoctrination to kill or be killed for a belief, they are being used to benefit the leaders, whether religious, military, or politicians, in my opinion. I support our teenage troops because they need our support for morel, but I sure don't support the politicians, religious leaders or military leaders who do think every problem can be solved by violence. When you make, even children, think they will always exist and not die but be transformed, or go against their instincts for self preservation, I think it is not only child abuse, but evil as you can get, in my opinion. :wall:
Yeah well opinions are like asshol.....oh wait, yeah, that's exactly my opinion too.
There doesn't seem to be a huge % of politicians that served, or if they did it was some half assed bushesque form of service.
There are only atheists in foxholes! And that sums up true belief in god when you get right down to it. It is so much easier to join/sign up when you're not confronted with war's realities. That gets glossed over when the sharp dressed, well spoken, emaculately groomed big grinned recruiter asks you to sign. I wonder how successful recruitment campaigns would be if they used amputees, and disfigured vets to do their bidding?
Quote from: kilodelta on June 03, 2015, 05:20:09 PM
Yeah. The Air Force appears to be the biggest offender of advocating Christianity within their service and while in uniform.
Maybe I was in the Army for too long, but I never went anywhere to any function without the chaplain delivering an invocation. I never fought it or anything: I mostly just bowed my head and thought happy thoughts while everyone else "prayed."
Quote from: TomFoolery on June 03, 2015, 10:04:42 PM
Maybe I was in the Army for too long, but I never went anywhere to any function without the chaplain delivering an invocation. I never fought it or anything: I mostly just bowed my head and thought happy thoughts while everyone else "prayed."
I haven't seen too many articles on problems with the Army. It's almost always the Air Force. My Marine experience had very limited infringement of religious freedom. The retirement ceremonies I attended had invocations only upon the request of the retiree. Many of those didn't even use military chaplains.
I also went to church in boot camp to avoid being in the squad bay with the DIs on Sundays. I think there should have been another option for recruits to get away from DIs on Sunday morning while those that are actually religious go to their service.
Quote from: TomFoolery on June 03, 2015, 10:04:42 PM
Maybe I was in the Army for too long, but I never went anywhere to any function without the chaplain delivering an invocation. I never fought it or anything: I mostly just bowed my head and thought happy thoughts while everyone else "prayed."
Yeah, my Army experience was much the same. I just bowed my 'no preference' head and stayed quiet. But I was lucky in the NG unit and the active Army Reserve unit I hooked up with. We did not have one visit by a chaplain. That was nice.
Quote from: kilodelta on June 03, 2015, 11:10:00 PM
I haven't seen too many articles on problems with the Army. It's almost always the Air Force. My Marine experience had very limited infringement of religious freedom. The retirement ceremonies I attended had invocations only upon the request of the retiree. Many of those didn't even use military chaplains.
I also went to church in boot camp to avoid being in the squad bay with the DIs on Sundays. I think there should have been another option for recruits to get away from DIs on Sunday morning while those that are actually religious go to their service.
Damn--in my boot days, we had not choice. We could not go to church--hell we could not even go to the dayroom in the barracks next door. There was a West Coast 'kissing disease' (what the hell, can't remember the name of that disease) scare and so we were confined to barracks except for training and mess hall--full 8 weeks worth.
Quote from: Mike Cl on June 03, 2015, 11:15:04 PM
Damn--in my boot days, we had not choice. We could not go to church--hell we could not even go to the dayroom in the barracks next door. There was a West Coast 'kissing disease' (what the hell, can't remember the name of that disease) scare and so we were confined to barracks except for training and mess hall--full 8 weeks worth.
Church was the only choice provided to us. Other than that, it was a full training schedule. Sleep was always interrupted by having duty, needing to take a duty or a piss, waking up to change into dry underwear, or by recruits sounding off in their sleep...
Quote from: Mike Cl on June 03, 2015, 11:15:04 PM
Damn--in my boot days, we had not choice. We could not go to church--hell we could not even go to the dayroom in the barracks next door. There was a West Coast 'kissing disease' (what the hell, can't remember the name of that disease) scare and so we were confined to barracks except for training and mess hall--full 8 weeks worth.
When I was in basic training, they had to make Sunday morning available for church services (unless you were on a field problem). If you didn't go to church, you had to clean the barracks or do yard work. It's amazing how many people found God (myself included) after that became apparent the first week. I always just went to service and sat in the back and caught up on sleep. Praise the Lord!
Quote from: TomFoolery on June 04, 2015, 08:46:36 AM
When I was in basic training, they had to make Sunday morning available for church services (unless you were on a field problem). If you didn't go to church, you had to clean the barracks or do yard work. It's amazing how many people found God (myself included) after that became apparent the first week. I always just went to service and sat in the back and caught up on sleep. Praise the Lord!
That's what I wish I could have done. We had no option.
That was a fun 8 weeks. Our DI was named Glasscock! Oh, yeah. I pitied the 2 guys who snickered when he introduced himself to the platoon. Plus he was in the middle of a divorce and lived most of the time in the barracks with us. And my platoon won the 8-ball rock 4 of the 8 weeks, which meant we ate last. And fun was had by all!