A few of my dear friends are believers.
We have (had) a mutual understanding that discussion about religion/deities is off-limits. For obvious reasons.
I have respected that as well as they have.
Its just gotten to the point that I care about these people very much, and believe that their (perceived) belief in gods is actually holding them back; socially and intellectually. Its somewhat presumptuous to think this; granted, but in my heart, I still feel compelled to help them.
But would it be the right thing to do, or would this cause a rift in our relationship?
Quote from: SkyChief on May 18, 2015, 11:39:41 PM
A few of my dear friends are believers.
We have (had) a mutual understanding that discussion about religion/deities is off-limits. For obvious reasons.
I have respected that as well as they have.
Its just gotten to the point that I care about these people very much, and believe that their (perceived) belief in gods is actually holding them back; socially and intellectually. Its somewhat presumptuous to think this; granted, but in my heart, I still feel compelled to help them.
But would it be the right thing to do, or would this cause a rift in our relationship?
It would cause a rift, big time. Count on it. Nobody wants to be told their most cherished beliefs are wrong. They will resist that with all their might. They will change only when they want to. If you see that one or two of them are having doubts and they make it known to you, then you can keep feeding those doubts. But if you want to keep them as friends, I suggest you continue to honor your 'pact'.
Quote from: SkyChief on May 18, 2015, 11:39:41 PM
A few of my dear friends are believers.
We have (had) a mutual understanding that discussion about religion/deities is off-limits. For obvious reasons.
I have respected that as well as they have.
Its just gotten to the point that I care about these people very much, and believe that their (perceived) belief in gods is actually holding them back; socially and intellectually. Its somewhat presumptuous to think this; granted, but in my heart, I still feel compelled to help them.
But would it be the right thing to do, or would this cause a rift in our relationship?
Not knowing your circumstances do they even know you are athiest? That would make all the difference. If they know you are athiest, is that why the discussion is off limits. If so, by no means should you break your agreement. If not then why is there an agreement? Is everyone real touchy about the subject? Considering there is an agreement, you would all need to get loosened up on the subject. Not sure what you think they would gain by becoming athiest and I would deeply consider that before making such a move if you care about them. Some people just don't need to recognize the truth.
Quote from: SkyChief on May 18, 2015, 11:39:41 PM
A few of my dear friends are believers.
We have (had) a mutual understanding that discussion about religion/deities is off-limits. For obvious reasons.
I have respected that as well as they have.
Its just gotten to the point that I care about these people very much, and believe that their (perceived) belief in gods is actually holding them back; socially and intellectually. Its somewhat presumptuous to think this; granted, but in my heart, I still feel compelled to help them.
But would it be the right thing to do, or would this cause a rift in our relationship?
And here's the irony, they are thinking the exact same thing about you! And they have the numbers for an intervention - you don't! Maybe you could arrange a conference intervention with some folks here.....?
Quote from: Mike Cl on May 18, 2015, 11:43:40 PM
It would cause a rift, big time... I suggest you continue to honor your 'pact'.
Thanx Mike. This makes sense. Sometimes we cant see the forest for all the trees (in this case).
I will continue to honour the 'pact'. At least they (my believer friends) have had the decency to do it.
And, I have the consolation of knowing my friends have made the same sacrifice to preserve our friendship (they're probably thinking that poor misguided skychief; if only we could help him see the light...).
again, i suck it up! :syda:
Thanx again for your insights...
Quote from: Givemeareason on May 19, 2015, 01:30:37 AM
Not knowing your circumstances do they even know you are athiest? That would make all the difference.
Yes! for almost 16 years, now.
This is what makes it so difficult. We've known these people for so long, it seems a shame that we (Ms SkyChief & me) have allowed the charade to go on this far.
But it has.
I would trust my entire estate to these people.
But they believe in spiritual entities which dont really exist and this troubles me.
Quote from: SkyChief on May 19, 2015, 02:34:59 AM
Yes! for almost 16 years, now.
This is what makes it so difficult. We've known these people for so long, it seems a shame that we (Ms SkyChief & me) have allowed the charade to go on this far.
But it has.
I would trust my entire estate to these people.
But they believe in spiritual entities which dont really exist and this troubles me.
Then suck it up as you say and by all means keep your friendship. Different viewpoints should never be allowed to destroy friendships. You just need some athiest friends as you have now found here. But don't get too cerebral about it. You need some athiest friends out there as well.
Quote from: SkyChief on May 18, 2015, 11:39:41 PM
Its somewhat presumptuous to think this; granted, but in my heart, I still feel compelled to help them.
Some of them probably feel the same way about you and your lack of religion. Religion is one of those things people have to approach you about, because going in with the mentality that someone's life is lacking because of it but
you have the answer is something I've generally disliked.
Wait until the person asks you about your views. Chances are this person is questioning his indoctrination and looking for a different perspective. Otherwise, you are just proselytizing. But if someone is actually asking for help in understanding skepticism for his own use, you have a rare chance (but only a chance) of establishing a meaningful discussion. For me, even as a Christian, the topic does God exist was always fair game as long as it followed channels of reasoning. Sometimes I encountered one of my own that said, "Of course God exists, because he exists. How could he not exist?" Even as a Christian, I knew this was nonsense, but I now realize, I was kind of an unusual Christian. A good objective would be to help those who seek, rather than try to convert them. You won't have many such encounters that way, but the few you might be lucky enough to have will be meaningful.
I'm in a similar situation with my "significant other".. The good thing is almost all of her kids and grandkids are atheists. We've decided to leave our views off the table because I do love her with all my heart and don't want to lose her over the magic man in the sky and she doesn't want to lose me over the same man in the sky..
We've discussed it at length and it always comes back to being in love and not wanting to rip each others hearts out..
Quote from: AllPurposeAtheist on May 19, 2015, 01:21:06 PM
I'm in a similar situation with my "significant other".. The good thing is almost all of her kids and grandkids are atheists. We've decided to leave our views off the table because I do love her with all my heart and don't want to lose her over the magic man in the sky and she doesn't want to lose me over the same man in the sky..
Very smart on both your parts! When push comes to shove, it is not so much what you believe but what you do.
Quote from: Givemeareason on May 19, 2015, 04:54:27 AM
Then suck it up as you say and by all means keep your friendship. Different viewpoints should never be allowed to destroy friendships. You just need some athiest friends as you have now found here. But don't get too cerebral about it. You need some athiest friends out there as well.
Quote from: Givemeareason on May 19, 2015, 04:54:27 AM
Then suck it up as you say and by all means keep your friendship. Different viewpoints should never be allowed to destroy friendships. You just need some athiest friends as you have now found here. But don't get too cerebral about it. You need some athiest friends out there as well.
Surprise! Another great post by the old coot that is getting mellow with age like a good wine. Solitary
Quote from: Solitary on May 19, 2015, 01:27:30 PM
Surprise! Another great post by the old coot that is getting mellow with age like a good wine. Solitary
I am glad we are coming to terms now. I will take that as a complement. Let us cease this senseless bickering.
Quote from: Solitary on May 19, 2015, 01:27:30 PM
Surprise! Another great post by the old coot that is getting mellow with age like a good wine. Solitary
Please take my response sincerely. While you may have hurt me you have not harmed me. And I hope you can say the same. You may call me the old coot anytime you like.
SmOn A coot is a harmless simple person and you are old, why wouldn't I call you that? SmOff To hurt is to harm by definition you old coot. Solitary
Quote from: Solitary on May 19, 2015, 02:02:18 PM
SmOn A coot is a harmless simple person and you are old, why wouldn't I call you that? SmOff To hurt is to harm by definition you old coot. Solitary
You are viewing it from the wrong direction. To experience hurt we can grow from that. From harm we cannot. We should view verbal pain as being harmless such that we might use it for own advantage. Being allowed to experience you and this board have helped me immensely from where I was. I needed this encounter. You young coot!!
Quote from: Solitary on May 19, 2015, 02:02:18 PM
SmOn A coot is a harmless simple person and you are old, why wouldn't I call you that? SmOff To hurt is to harm by definition you old coot. Solitary
If you like to know more on what I am saying start a thread on this subject.
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illeism
Quote from: Givemeareason on May 19, 2015, 02:59:31 PM
You are viewing it from the wrong direction. To experience hurt we can grow from that. From harm we cannot. We should view verbal pain as being harmless such that we might use it for own advantage. Being allowed to experience you and this be have helped me immensely from where I was. I needed this encounter. You young coot!!
The old coot did it again. What I meant to say was that to experience pain we can grow from that. If you seeing me going the wrong direction just turn me around and point me the other way.
Quote from: Givemeareason on May 19, 2015, 01:56:32 PM
Please take my response sincerely. While you may have hurt me you have not harmed me. And I hope you can say the same. You may call me the old coot anytime you like.
Just do us one favor and rotate your avatar -45 degrees.
Quote from: Desdinova on May 19, 2015, 03:52:21 PM
Just do us one favor and rotate your avatar -45 degrees.
You will need to explain that for me to decide if I want to do that.
Quote from: Givemeareason on May 19, 2015, 04:25:45 PM
You will need to explain that for me to decide if I want to do that.
Actually -90 degrees not -45. That way I won't have to tilt my head to look at the old coot.
Quote from: Desdinova on May 19, 2015, 04:37:01 PM
Actually -90 degrees not -45. That way I won't have to tilt my head to look at the old coot.
I will presume you are asking me to leave which is really quite ridiculous as you have not been elected to represent us. And whoever us is also includes me. I suggest you hit the ignore button and you will feel much better.
Quote from: Givemeareason on May 19, 2015, 02:59:31 PM
You are viewing it from the wrong direction. To experience hurt we can grow from that. From harm we cannot. We should view verbal pain as being harmless such that we might use it for own advantage. Being allowed to experience you and this board have helped me immensely from where I was. I needed this encounter. You young coot!!
I'm 73 years old sonny.
Quote from: Givemeareason on May 19, 2015, 03:31:47 PM
The old coot did it again. What I meant to say was that to experience pain we can grow from that. If you seeing me going the wrong direction just turn me around and point me the other way.
You do know that doesn't make any since they both mean the same thing and you can grow from both don't you? You must be a former jar head with his hat screwed on too tight. :biggrin2: Solitary
Quote from: Givemeareason on May 19, 2015, 04:42:56 PM
I will presume you are asking me to leave which is really quite ridiculous as you have not been elected to represent us. And whoever us is also includes me. I suggest you hit the ignore button and you will feel much better.
Jesus Christ! giveme.........................all the fuck he is asking you to do is to turn your picture right side up so we don't have to crank our heads around to see it correctly!
Quote from: Solitary on May 19, 2015, 04:54:13 PM
I'm 73 years old sonny. You do know that doesn't make any since they both mean the same thing and you
can grow from both don't you? You must be a former jar head with his hat screwed on too tight. :biggrin
2: Solitary
Thank you for noting that. Yes pain and hurt are the same thing. Since we are talking about non-physical experiences neither of us have been harmed. You now have an opportunity if you choose to make it so. You can grow from our encounter or you can languish back into hate. I am like the lawyer who is assigned to defend a client whom I know is guilty. Even though I have been defending religion I still really don't like it. It's just that my moral structure requires me to address what I perceive as injustice. And from where I see it that is probably a good thing. Doing so helps to eliminate pockets of hate and thereby enhances more unity amongst human beings. I hope you take this opportunity and relinquish all hate.
Quote from: Mike Cl on May 19, 2015, 05:52:34 PM
Jesus Christ! giveme.........................all the fuck he is asking you to do is to turn your picture right side up so we don't have to crank our heads around to see it correctly!
That's why I asked for an explanation.
Quote from: SkyChief on May 18, 2015, 11:39:41 PM
A few of my dear friends are believers.
We have (had) a mutual understanding that discussion about religion/deities is off-limits. For obvious reasons.
I have respected that as well as they have.
I bet if they
really believed their position is correct, and that they'd be able to prove it to you and convert you to a belief in their version of God, they'd be champing at the bit to do so. Because they know they can't do that, they'd rather stay completely away from it, else they might lose their own faith and be damned to hell for all eternity.
My picture is on its side because I am obtuse. I did that intentionally to better convey who I am. However with this boards assistance I might become upright again.
I'll make it my lifes work to hurt old coots except of course me, my gf and my dad..
Ok, I'll "try" to avoid hurting you old coots IF I GOTTA.. :biggrin:
Quote from: Solitary on May 19, 2015, 04:54:13 PM
I'm 73 years old sonny. You do know that doesn't make any since they both mean the same thing and you can grow from both don't you? You must be a former jar head with his hat screwed on too tight. :biggrin2: Solitary
No I was never a jarhead. Knowing you are 73 creates an entirely different picture of you within my mind. Being athiest at 73 suggests someone rather educated or you abandoned religion because of your pain. By hating religion you are expressing your anger against God. However yelling a "Fuck you" at me from your dead loved one indicates something I do not understand. Would you care to clarify that? I am not being devious, just nosey.
Quote from: AllPurposeAtheist on May 19, 2015, 06:21:17 PM
I'll make it my lifes work to hurt old coots except of course me, my gf and my dad..
Ok, I'll "try" to avoid hurting you old coots IF I GOTTA.. :biggrin:
Fuck you, you old coot! :-)
Quote from: Givemeareason on May 19, 2015, 04:42:56 PM
I will presume you are asking me to leave which is really quite ridiculous as you have not been elected to represent us. And whoever us is also includes me. I suggest you hit the ignore button and you will feel much better.
I would never ash you to leave GMR! You've actually grown on me. Kind of like a skin tag under my armpit.
[quot I ame author=Desdinova link=topic=7756.msg1074998#msg1074998 date=1432132076]
I would never ash you to leave GMR! You've actually grown on me. Kind of like a skin tag under my armpit.
[/quote]
Hey, that is so good to hear! Now I am starting to really like you. See when I tell someone "Fuck you" what I am really looking for is affirmation that I am in good company. That's how real life is. It is not intended to be hurtful. I have really come to like Mike even though I frustrate the hell out of him. See he tells me how it is and holds nothing back. He doesn't worry about antagonizing me. And I really like that because his posts then become meaningful to me. Name calling can be fun but I think it should be meaningful. So I wish everyone would treat me more like Mike does. As for now I would appreciate you and others giving me the big FU so I will know I am in good company. :-)
BITE ME!
Quote from: Solitary on May 20, 2015, 11:46:26 AM
BITE ME!
Thanks, Sol. But so far it looks like you're the only one I am in good company with. I am not looking for any feedback like that sociopath in the sky. And as far as he is concerned he just needs more affirmation he is in good company too.
Quote from: Givemeareason on May 19, 2015, 05:57:12 PM
Thank you for noting that. Yes pain and hurt are the same thing. Since we are talking about non-physical experiences neither of us have been harmed. You now have an opportunity if you choose to make it so. You can grow from our encounter or you can languish back into hate. I am like the lawyer who is assigned to defend a client whom I know is guilty. Even though I have been defending religion I still really don't like it. It's just that my moral structure requires me to address what I perceive as injustice. And from where I see it that is probably a good thing. Doing so helps to eliminate pockets of hate and thereby enhances more unity amongst human beings. I hope you take this opportunity and relinquish all hate.
I hate anyone or group that causes violence and death to any sentient creature for fun. I don't hate religious people, and never said I did, and I never said I hate you either, so don't project your own hatred or pain on me because you are offended by what I said about you! I will always hate religion and any other group that controls peoples minds and bodies involuntarily, or by exploiting the minds of children for their personal gain. And I do hate trolls, as you know, if you aren't one why do you take it so serious if I thought you were one by your posts? Solitary
Quote from: Solitary on May 20, 2015, 03:54:16 PM
I hate anyone or group that causes violence and death to any sentient creature for fun. I don't hate religious people, and never said I did, and I never said I hate you either, so don't project your own hatred or pain on me because you are offended by what I said about you! I will always hate religion and any other group that controls peoples minds and bodies involuntarily, or by exploiting the minds of children for their personal gain. And I do hate trolls, as you know, if you aren't one why do you take it so serious if I thought you were one by your posts? Solitary
The problem I had and which I see you still have is that you are not truthful or at least it seems so to me. See I have always felt that you hated religion first and then looked for a reason to justify your hate. It seems this is how it often works. And it is not rational. This is the same thing creationists do. And as for pain and suffering I feel the same. When I was young I did a lot of hunting to feed our family because we were poor. Watching animals die in fear whether instinctual or not became very disturbing to me. I don't even like fishing anymore. And since you just said you hate trolls and you clearly think I am still a troll that means you still hate me. The only problem I was having at that time was that I did not want to be banned. And you were leading a sort of witch hunt and still are in which by virtue of your accusations I was nearly condemned. You really need to empathize more with the people being harmed by your actions..
Quote from: Givemeareason on May 20, 2015, 04:42:39 PM
The problem I had and which I see you still have is that you are not truthful or at least it seems so to me. See I have always felt that you hated religion first and then looked for a reason to justify your hate. It seems this is how it often works. And it is not rational. This is the same thing creationists do. And as for pain and suffering I feel the same. When I was young I did a lot of hunting to feed our family because we were poor. Watching animals die in fear whether instinctual or not became very disturbing to me. I don't even like fishing anymore. And since you just said you hate trolls and you clearly think I am still a troll that means you still hate me. The only problem I was having at that time was that I did not want to be banned. And you were leading a sort of witch hunt and still are in which by virtue of your accusations I was nearly condemned. You really need to empathize more with the people being harmed by your actions..
As I pointed out above, religion fits into that category, and yes I hate it for all those reasons, how is that not rational to hate a group or groups that do that? And even if it is does that make it wrong? I don't deny that, and never did. You know what---FUCK YOU! I JUST DON'T LIKE YOU BECAUSE OF WHAT-THE-FUCK, OR WHO THE FUCK YOU ARE! Atheist or not you are self serving ass hole. And you are correct, I still think you are a troll, even more than I did originally from the innuendoes you keep making from your delusions and paranoia. Where have I not been truthful? Show me! It only seems to you because you are a troll or dumb ass. I really don't like you, and think that not only are you a troll, but a childish person no matter what your age that gets a kick out of disrupting forums and pushing people's buttons thinking he, or she, is cute. lul!
Quote from: Solitary on May 20, 2015, 05:24:45 PM
As I pointed out above, religion fits into that category, and yes I hate it for all those reasons, how is that not rational to hate a group or groups that do that? And even if it is does that make it wrong? I don't deny that, and never did. You know what---FUCK YOU! I JUST DON'T LIKE YOU BECAUSE OF WHAT-THE-FUCK, OR WHO THE FUCK YOU ARE! Atheist or not you are self serving ass hole. And you are correct, I still think you are a troll, even more than I did originally from the innuendoes you keep making from your delusions and paranoia. Where have I not been truthful? Show me! It only seems to you because you are a troll or dumb ass. I really don't like you, and think that not only are you a troll, but a childish person no matter what your age that gets a kick out of disrupting forums and pushing people's buttons thinking he, or she, is cute. lul!
You see you are illustrating the problem I have had with you starting with your witch hunt. You like to take all the worst characteristics you think that you see in a person and assemble them claiming this proves them to be what you say they are. This is called the straw man fallacy. Political opponents love to do this. And anyone who has been on this board for a while can see I am nothing like you still claim. I may seem like a loud mouthed old coot who can't shut up but I am actually here for the same reason I said in the beginning when I was being drowned out by you. I am so glad that the more rational minds here had a clearer view. Now you are engaging in a childish display of anger and are starting to fall to pieces. So how do you think you can recover from this? I really don't want to see you destroy yourself. I just did not like seeing others following in your footsteps.
Quote from: SkyChief on May 18, 2015, 11:39:41 PM
A few of my dear friends are believers.
We have (had) a mutual understanding that discussion about religion/deities is off-limits. For obvious reasons.
I have respected that as well as they have.
Its just gotten to the point that I care about these people very much, and believe that their (perceived) belief in gods is actually holding them back; socially and intellectually. Its somewhat presumptuous to think this; granted, but in my heart, I still feel compelled to help them.
But would it be the right thing to do, or would this cause a rift in our relationship?
It may be the case that they have the same feeling about you. If you cannot be tolerant of their beliefs, as they are of yours', then I would suggest ending the association. I would also encourage you to recognize the problem that exists when you aren't able to maintain relationships with people who believe differently than yourself. This strikes me as being significantly out of step in a multi-cultural and pluralistic society.
Quote from: Odoital778412 on May 24, 2015, 03:24:11 AM
It may be the case that they have the same feeling about you. If you cannot be tolerant of their beliefs, as they are of yours', then I would suggest ending the association. I would also encourage you to recognize the problem that exists when you aren't able to maintain relationships with people who believe differently than yourself. This strikes me as being significantly out of step in a multi-cultural and pluralistic society.
Now there's a chicken that came before the egg.
Quote
It may be the case that they have the same feeling about you. If you cannot be tolerant of their beliefs, as they are of yours', then I would suggest ending the association. I would also encourage you to recognize the problem that exists when you aren't able to maintain relationships with people who believe differently than yourself. This strikes me as being significantly out of step in a multi-cultural and pluralistic society.
The irony of a Christian calling for more tolerance of Christianity is laughable. You realize you guys aren't exactly viewed as paragons of tolerance, don't you. The latest research shows people leaving the church in record numbers. When polled why they are walking away, one of the most common answers is that the church has become too intolerant, hateful, and spiteful.
Although, that observation is not exactly correct. The church is no more intolerant or hateful today than it was 50 years ago. It still hates and persecutes the same things today as it did before. Well, that's not exactly correct either. Actually, as the rest of society becomes more accepting of others, Christianity has reacted by becoming even more hateful, spiteful, and discriminatory. It seems you can't turn around these days without pissing off a Christian. No wonder people are leaving your cherished religion.
Quote from: SkyChief on May 18, 2015, 11:39:41 PM
A few of my dear friends are believers.
We have (had) a mutual understanding that discussion about religion/deities is off-limits. For obvious reasons.
I have respected that as well as they have.
Its just gotten to the point that I care about these people very much, and believe that their (perceived) belief in gods is actually holding them back; socially and intellectually. Its somewhat presumptuous to think this; granted, but in my heart, I still feel compelled to help them.
But would it be the right thing to do, or would this cause a rift in our relationship?
If my husband, who is Catholic, told me I needed to go to church because my humanism was "holding me back socially and intellectually" I would assume he was having an existential crisis or some other issue. I'm sure people who proselytize believe they are being helpful but those on the receiving end often don't experience it as beneficence.
Quote from: SGOS on May 24, 2015, 05:51:01 AM
The irony of a Christian calling for more tolerance of Christianity is laughable. You realize you guys aren't exactly viewed as paragons of tolerance, don't you. The latest research shows people leaving the church in record numbers. When polled why they are walking away, one of the most common answers is that the church has become too intolerant, hateful, and spiteful.
Although, that observation is not exactly correct. The church is no more intolerant or hateful today than it was 50 years ago. It still hates and persecutes the same things today as it did before. Well, that's not exactly correct either. Actually, as the rest of society becomes more accepting of others, Christianity has reacted by becoming even more hateful, spiteful, and discriminatory. It seems you can't turn around these days without pissing off a Christian. No wonder people are leaving your cherished religion.
There's no irony from my perspective. I have a much easier time being tolerant of the religions and views of non-Christians than many others have being tolerant of me. I'm aware of how Christians are seen, but since the perceptions are often wildly inaccurate, that's not too meaningful to me. For example, if we disagree with someone, it's often stated that we hate them. The fact that this isn't true doesn't seem to matter. It's just repeated over and over again in spite of or maybe because of the inaccuracy.
With regard to people leaving the Church, that's precisely what they should be happening right now. There will be a great falling away in the latter days, and that's exactly what we see. No surprise here. I'm not aware of the Church persecuting anyone. As far as I can tell, we're simply holding to our beliefs. And generally speaking, it's the Christians who are being discriminated against, not the non-Christian.
Quote from: Odoital778412 on May 24, 2015, 03:24:11 AM
It may be the case that they have the same feeling about you. If you cannot be tolerant of their beliefs, as they are of yours', then I would suggest ending the association. I would also encourage you to recognize the problem that exists when you aren't able to maintain relationships with people who believe differently than yourself. This strikes me as being significantly out of step in a multi-cultural and pluralistic society.
Perhaps I wasn't clear in the OP. My Bad. My wife and I have been friends with these folks for close to 20 years, now. Our close bond with them was established a long time ago. 'Maintaining' the relationship was never a problem. Because we each did our own part in respecting the others' beliefs.
Its just that recently, I've noticed a slight tendency for them to not participate in some activities that they would have eagerly joined into a few years ago. For instance, I invited them to attend a party where there would be some 'colorful' (don't ask!! :silenced:) people there. A few years ago, they would have jumped at the invitation. But now expressed some concerns about the people who be attending, and declined for that reason
alone. The party was a blast, and they missed out.
And I was kind of on the fence about discussing it with them (as a friend). But that would have violated our understanding.
Mike Cl suggested that I bite my lip and honor the pact. Which makes sense.
Thanks for responding, tho! :biggrin:
Quote from: Odoital778412 on May 24, 2015, 08:00:30 AM
I'm not aware of the Church persecuting anyone. As far as I can tell, we're simply holding to our beliefs. And generally speaking, it's the Christians who are being discriminated against, not the non-Christian.
I disagree.
Quote from: Odoital778412 on Today at 05:00:30 AM
QuoteI'm not aware of the Church persecuting anyone. As far as I can tell, we're simply holding to our beliefs. And generally speaking, it's the Christians who are being discriminated against, not the non-Christian.
Are you FUCKING kidding me!?
Quote from: SkyChief on May 18, 2015, 11:39:41 PM
A few of my dear friends are atheists.
We have (had) a mutual understanding that discussion about religion/deities is off-limits. For obvious reasons.
I have respected that as well as they have.
Its just gotten to the point that I care about these people very much, and believe that their (perceived) non-belief in gods is actually holding them back; socially and intellectually. Its somewhat presumptuous to think this; granted, but in my heart, I still feel compelled to help them.
But would it be the right thing to do, or would this cause a rift in our relationship?
What if someone posted this here? How would you answer it?
Don't do it. Proselytizing only pisses people off.
Quote from: SkyChief on May 18, 2015, 11:39:41 PM
A few of my dear friends are believers.
We have (had) a mutual understanding that discussion about religion/deities is off-limits. For obvious reasons.
I have respected that as well as they have.
Its just gotten to the point that I care about these people very much, and believe that their (perceived) belief in gods is actually holding them back; socially and intellectually. Its somewhat presumptuous to think this; granted, but in my heart, I still feel compelled to help them.
But would it be the right thing to do, or would this cause a rift in our relationship?
I don't think telling them would be the right decision, especially considering the world is still mostly theistic.