http://www.vice.com/read/atheism-terrifies-people-because-it-makes-us-think-about-death-511
QuoteWhen my friend and fellow nonbeliever Greta Christina wrote her recent book Coming Out Atheist: How to Do It, How to Help Each Other, and Why, she noticed a common theme among the more than 400 stories she collected: The subject of death came up a lot.
"When atheists come out (to Christians, anyway), the first reaction is often about hell," Christina told me. "Sometimes it's manipulative or hostile, an attempt to scare atheists back into belief. More often, though, it's genuine concern or fearâ€"they sincerely believe atheists will burn in hell, and they don't want that to happen to the people they love."
A new study by Corey Cook, titled "What if They're Right About the Afterlife? Evidence of the Role of Existential Threat on Anti-Atheist Prejudice," sheds some light on the phenomenon Christina noticed. Cook, a social psychologist at the University of Washington, told me that while the well-documented mistrust of atheists shows up in the polls over the years, there's not much literature on why atheists are perceived the way they are by religious believers in America.
When participants thought about atheism, it actually activated concern about death to the same extent as actually thinking about death.
As always, read the article. Many people on the forum, myself included, have noted this in the past. We have had threads on death and how we feel about it. It is the single biggest reason we have religion in the first place. The cornerstones of religion:
fear (of death)
guilt
condemnation
judgment
and you have religion.
Every evangelical preacher ever threatened his congregation and world at large with just that, and in every case I can think of targeted some aspect of modern society- currently gay rights- as the thing that will drag us all to hell.
Used to be the rights of minorities.
Used to be rock and roll.
Used to be miniskirts.
And every time a tornado touches down in the bible belt the blame falls on whichever is the current culprit.
Sad.
There is a difference between fear of dying which is part of life, but fear of death itself is an imaginary fear, like fearing hell. I have faced death many times in my life, and it was the fear of dying and the finality of it, not death itself that I was fearful of, because my body has an inborn reaction to any threat to it with the fight or flight response that we feel to different degrees of anxiety, fear, terror, and dread of the unknown, and when the dread of the unknown is an imaginary hell of eternal punishment installed in children it can be used to control them. Religion is all about the fear of losing control of themselves, others, and the natural world we live in by appeasing an all powerful God to avoid pain, suffering (unless you are taught it brings you closer to God), death and hell.
Death is a fear of nothing but our own imagination and knowledge of painful memories. What ever we imagine our bodies react to it as if it is real, good thoughts=good feelings, bad thoughts=bad feelings, and conflicting thoughts=the emotion of horror. They are all very uncomfortable, but when they are repressed in order to function for survival in a deadly situation they express themselves as a full blown panic attack that is worse then all of them put together. However, no matter how uncomfortable they are, they do not kill you, you just wish they would. Fear is what keeps us alive from millions of years of evolution. "Drink and be Merry for tomorrow we die!" Or you can be Mary if you want. :eek: :biggrin2: Solitary
Over the years I have seen changes in the messages delivered from the pulpit Back when religion didn't feel threatened and was everywhere and growing, it was about the good news of Jesus. In the 90's it was Promise Keepers and sending your kids to Bible Camp. Now it is all about hatin' the gays, fear of death, repent or die etc. The message changes according to current circumstances.
In the end it is all about mind control.
Quote from: stromboli on May 12, 2015, 11:39:52 AM
http://www.vice.com/read/atheism-terrifies-people-because-it-makes-us-think-about-death-511
As always, read the article. Many people on the forum, myself included, have noted this in the past. We have had threads on death and how we feel about it. It is the single biggest reason we have religion in the first place. The cornerstones of religion:
fear (of death)
guilt
condemnation
judgment
and you have religion.
Every evangelical preacher ever threatened his congregation and world at large with just that, and in every case I can think of targeted some aspect of modern society- currently gay rights- as the thing that will drag us all to hell.
Used to be the rights of minorities.
Used to be rock and roll.
Used to be miniskirts.
And every time a tornado touches down in the bible belt the blame falls on whichever is the current culprit.
Sad.
I don't really agree that those are the cornerstones of religion and let's narrow it down to just Christianity. The cornerstone of Christianity is hope. I encounter many Christians and when I engage them in religious discussion I do not tell them I am athiest. I am not interested in a debate over whether their god exists. I am interested in how they experience life. Some are living a bliss full life entirely within their beliefs. So why would we want to interrupt that for them just because they are not experiencing reality in the same way we are. Other than where they interject themselves into politics and such they are not harming us. So why not embrace them in friendship such that we can all enjoy and experience life together?
Quote from: stromboli on May 12, 2015, 11:39:52 AM
http://www.vice.com/read/atheism-terrifies-people-because-it-makes-us-think-about-death-511
As always, read the article. Many people on the forum, myself included, have noted this in the past. We have had threads on death and how we feel about it. It is the single biggest reason we have religion in the first place. The cornerstones of religion:
fear (of death)
guilt
condemnation
judgment
and you have religion.
Every evangelical preacher ever threatened his congregation and world at large with just that, and in every case I can think of targeted some aspect of modern society- currently gay rights- as the thing that will drag us all to hell.
Used to be the rights of minorities.
Used to be rock and roll.
Used to be miniskirts.
And every time a tornado touches down in the bible belt the blame falls on whichever is the current culprit.
Sad.
Perhaps we are the ones most afraid of death.
Quote from: Givemeareason on May 12, 2015, 02:52:42 PM
I don't really agree that those are the cornerstones of religion and let's narrow it down to just Christianity. The cornerstone of Christianity is hope. I encounter many Christians and when I engage them in religious discussion I do not tell them I am athiest. I am not interested in a debate over whether their god exists. I am interested in how they experience life. Some are living a bliss full life entirely within their beliefs. So why would we want to interrupt that for them just because they are not experiencing reality in the same way we are. Other than where they interject themselves into politics and such they are not harming us. So why not embrace them in friendship such that we can all enjoy and experience life together?
That is the first post you have made that makes any sense! But you seem to forget that the very fact that they are controlled and slaves to religious authority that gets involves in politics and in our lives that is a major problem that does hurt minorities being bigots they are supported by religious dogma. Christian religion does far more harm for everyone than the good it does. I don't care how nice a Christian is to me and others, if they are bigoted haters from Scripture. I am not afraid of death at all dumb ass! Been there, done that mutable times, and fact have Deep vein thrombosis three times that went to my lungs twice that is 20% fatal, went to my heart and brain causing an ischemic attack, and now I have multiple lesions on my brain that could be MS. You are really pushing a religious belief for a so-called atheist. Most of the people have caught on to your disingenuous bull shit. Carry on! Solitary
Quote from: Solitary on May 12, 2015, 03:37:29 PM
That is the first post you have made that makes any sense! But you seem to forget that the very fact that they are controlled and slaves to religious authority that gets involves in politics and in our lives that is a major problem that does hurt minorities being bigots they are supported by religious dogma. Christian religion does far more harm for everyone than the good it does. I don't care how nice a Christian is to me and others, if they are bigoted haters from Scripture. I am not afraid of death at all dumb ass! Been there, done that mutable times, and fact have Deep vein thrombosis three times that went to my lungs twice that is 20% fatal, went to my heart and brain causing an ischemic attack, and now I have multiple lesions on my brain that could be MS. You are really pushing a religious belief for a so-called atheist. Most of the people have caught on to your disingenuous bull shit. Carry on! Solitary
It has became clear to me that my profile was so terribly inadequate that nobody could understand where I have I have coming from. And so I have changed it. To clarify further, I am so athiest and god so disproven in my mind that I consider it beneath my dignity to even engage in an argument that there is no god. But that does not mean I have to hate it. My quest is one of understanding. To me it seems that the more I can understand the more I understand myself. And if I could ever understand myself perhaps I could understand EVERYTHING. I think that's a bit inflated but I hope you can see my point. Therefore from a point of understanding religion I cannot hate it.
So you don't hate Christian-Judeo-Islamic religion, then you never question authority and have no faith in yourself, and are willing to accept anything that agrees with you. So? :madu: Solitary
Quote from: Solitary on May 12, 2015, 04:19:46 PM
So you don't hate Christian-Judeo-Islamic religion, then you never question authority and have no faith in yourself, and are willing to accept anything that agrees with you. So? :madu: Solitary
I do not understand what you are saying. I question ALL authority. I follow the law but I don't always agree with it. I have a moral structure within myself that I must follow and which I attempted to offer for examination such that I might obtain feedback or to determine any error or improvement that was needed. I accept nothing if it is new to me. It is then a requirement that I understand it if it is interesting to me. But there aren't enough things that are new to me. Which is why I am here. With that in mind I think you can now better understand me. But my criteria by which I examine can be pretty selective as to what I want to incorporate into myself.
Quote from: Solitary on May 12, 2015, 04:19:46 PM
So you don't hate Christian-Judeo-Islamic religion, then you never question authority and have no faith in yourself, and are willing to accept anything that agrees with you. So? :madu: Solitary
As for understanding you, I have seen that you can become very cruel. I hope that you do not employ that much.
I don't fear death at all since I found I needn't worry about eternal torture in hellfire. I still don't like the fact that I'll never know the ends of so many of the current stories.
Quote from: stromboli on May 12, 2015, 11:39:52 AM
http://www.vice.com/read/atheism-terrifies-people-because-it-makes-us-think-about-death-511
As always, read the article. Many people on the forum, myself included, have noted this in the past. We have had threads on death and how we feel about it. It is the single biggest reason we have religion in the first place. The cornerstones of religion:
fear (of death)
guilt
condemnation
judgment
and you have religion.
Every evangelical preacher ever threatened his congregation and world at large with just that, and in every case I can think of targeted some aspect of modern society- currently gay rights- as the thing that will drag us all to hell.
Used to be the rights of minorities.
Used to be rock and roll.
Used to be miniskirts.
And every time a tornado touches down in the bible belt the blame falls on whichever is the current culprit.
Which is why they are trying to convince themselves that the Rapture will save them having to die at all. And as for scaring us back by going on about hell, what they fail to understand is that the concept of eternal hellfire just for failing to believe in a blood-thirsty, narcissistic Sky God is precisely the sort of pure evil bullshit that made atheists of us in the first place.
I wonder if Christians in general have larger amygdalae, or maybe they just work better?
Maybe there's a parasite living in the brains of the God Bothering Brigade.
I don't fear death. I fear heaven.
Fear not fellow future dead people.. Just keep drinking coffee and you'll live longer..
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/how-to-maximize-the-health-benefits-of-coffee/?google_editors_picks=true
Quote from: AllPurposeAtheist on May 12, 2015, 08:50:26 PM
Fear not fellow future dead people.. Just keep drinking coffee and you'll live longer..
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/how-to-maximize-the-health-benefits-of-coffee/?google_editors_picks=true
Yes! Love my coffee!!
'Religion is the sigh of the oppressed creature, the heart of a heartless world and the soul of soulless conditions. It is the opium of the people.' - Karl Marx
The thought of death is something that traveled with me for all my life. In the last year has become a bit obsessive.
I fear death a lot. And I don't trust wholeheartedly those who says they do not fear it at least a little.
Quote from: Conradine on May 13, 2015, 03:17:06 PM
The thought of death is something that traveled with me for all my life. In the last year has become a bit obsessive.
I fear death a lot. And I don't trust wholeheartedly those who says they do not fear it at least a little.
I would like to address you but I need to know more about you. Can you develop your profile more?
Quote from: Conradine on May 13, 2015, 03:17:06 PM
The thought of death is something that traveled with me for all my life. In the last year has become a bit obsessive.
I fear death a lot. And I don't trust wholeheartedly those who says they do not fear it at least a little.
Why is that? I am afraid of dying in pain; some bad disease or a horrible crime. Not death itself, because there is no such things as death itself. It's a moment that my body will stop functioning. I think you are confused about these two things. Dying and being dead. Why would I be afraid of being dead. I will perish, vanish...etc. I won't exist anymore. What is so scary about that? Yes, I don't want to die now. I'd ike to have a long healthy life like everyone. But I know I will die one day, and honestly, secretly I am very happy we die sooner or later and don't live forever. How horrible that would be if we lived forever.
Quote from: Conradine on May 13, 2015, 03:17:06 PM
I fear death a lot. And I don't trust wholeheartedly those who says they do not fear it at least a little.
Well, what can I say. Don't believe us then. Of course some atheists probably do fear death, just as some Christians might not. But I'm guessing the dynamics used to arrive at that state are probably quite a bit different for atheists. Death is the exact same state of being as pre-conception, and I have never worried one bit about what was happening to me before I was conceived. In fact, from the beginning of time to my conception was but a blip, and then 13.7 billions later it was "Hi Mom. Hi Pop," and I get to live for 80 years or so. Then it will be back to another gazillion billion years that will pass like the first 13.7, and when time finally ends, I will not have had a single thought or regret, or even experienced the time necessary to experience a thought or regret. But if you are a Christian, you will most likely burn in Hell, because there is only room for 34,000 people in Heaven, which probably seemed like a lot of people to the primitive goat herder that make that passage up.
@Givemeareason: I sent you a message.
QuoteHow horrible that would be if we lived forever.
I politely disagree... and have some hopes about transhumanism. Anyway, I guess it's a matter of personal feelings.
@SGOS: I know these king of argomentations. All ok. Still, I don't think most people are completely ok and serene with the thought of death. It's kind of an universal fear. Anyway it's fully possible to die before that thought comes to the surface.
Quote from: Conradine on May 13, 2015, 04:13:54 PM
@Givemeareason: I sent you a message.
I politely disagree... and have some hopes about transhumanism. Anyway, I guess it's a matter of personal feelings.
@SGOS: I know these king of argomentations. All ok. Still, I don't think most people are completely ok and serene with the thought of death. It's kind of an universal fear. Anyway it's fully possible to die before that thought comes to the surface.
How could you possibly 'know' that??? I do think that the fear of death is one of the major reasons people become religious. But not all religious people fear death. It is not universal. Just because you feel that way does not mean all feel that way. Just because you are human does not mean you know how all humans feel--or how they will act. Each of us is unique. I doubt that any feeling or moral or thought or emotion is universal. Just because you fear death does not mean all humans do. Being so judgmental really cuts you off from how others think and feel.
Personally I feel the same way as Shoe--I fear being in pain, with no hope of recovery and not being able to die when and how I choose. That is what I fear.
QuoteHow could you possibly 'know' that???
I mean that I already read and hear the argument "when death is present I am absent", yet I noticed that people still scream a lot seconds before the plane crash, so I suspect that, deep down, most people have at least an unconscious fear of death.
QuoteI doubt that any feeling or moral or thought or emotion is universal.
Many schools of psychology suspect that tanathophobia is common to all or to the vast majority of humans.
Anyway, I'm not 100% sure of this. I believe that some ( rare ) people have absolutely no fear of death. I simply think that these people are the exception.
Quote from: Conradine on May 13, 2015, 03:17:06 PM
The thought of death is something that traveled with me for all my life. In the last year has become a bit obsessive.
I fear death a lot. And I don't trust wholeheartedly those who says they do not fear it at least a little.
Well, you were dead for billions of years before your conception and birth - did that bother you much?
Quote from: Conradine on May 13, 2015, 05:00:18 PM
I mean that I already read and hear the argument "when death is present I am absent", yet I noticed that people still scream a lot seconds before the plane crash, so I suspect that, deep down, most people have at least an unconscious fear of death.
Many schools of psychology suspect that tanathophobia is common to all or to the vast majority of humans.
Anyway, I'm not 100% sure of this. I believe that some ( rare ) people have absolutely no fear of death. I simply think that these people are the exception.
Actually, it is not really all that important to you how I feel about death. What is important is what do you feel about death. If, indeed, you do suffer from tantathophobia, that would indicated you have a 'fear of death'--and when 'phobia' is attached then you need to seek professional help, since that would indicate that there is a bit of unreasoning fear involved. As I have stated before, grief can play terrible tricks on your mind. I can only wish you luck on your journey.
I can't conceptualize the idea of non-existence. Can't figure how does it "feels" to "not feel".
Well, I guess i can't explain that any better.
QuoteI can only wish you luck on your journey.
Thanks. I hope I'll be succesfull on my quest for eternal biological life.
Quote from: Conradine on May 13, 2015, 03:17:06 PM
The thought of death is something that traveled with me for all my life. In the last year has become a bit obsessive.
I fear death a lot. And I don't trust wholeheartedly those who says they do not fear it at least a little.
I will assume you are athiest which means that you will have to deal with death a bit more directly. But I am not sure what part of death that you fear. Do you fear the approach of death which you are encountering now? Do you fear the pain of death which I don't particularly encounter? Do you fear the lingering death in which you may find yourself wishing you could just get it over with? Do you fear the exact moment of death in which you may simply cease to exist? For many the quality of life deteriorates to the point they are just happy to die? Not knowing your circumstances makes it difficult to respond to. But you are wise to confront your fear such that you might conquer it lest it conquer you.
I'll try to explain it as best as I can.
I am not ( extremely ) afraid of the pain because in northern Italy we have good public sanity and laws that force doctors to administrate all the painkillers necessary to erase the suffering ( just a couple of decades ago I would have been much more worried ). There are also recent structures called "hospices" which are specifically made for pain therapy.
I'm also not afraid of dying in the short time. I'm healty and cautious.
I fear my inability to "figure" how do you feel when you are no more alive. I know that you feel nothing, but that is an abstract concept. Consciousness is felt as a more-or-less continuous state of being. Even when you sleep there is some kind of dream activity.
I know it's not a really clear explanation.
Quote from: Conradine on May 13, 2015, 05:33:21 PM
Consciousness is felt as a more-or-less continuous state of being. Even when you sleep there is some kind of dream activity.
Which makes it worrisome for some people. They have experienced nothing but a continuous state of being their entire lives, and anything else is foreign to them. Apparently, they don't bother comprehending total oblivion. Possibly they are too ego involved with their own consciousness to contemplate non-existence.
Quote from: Conradine on May 13, 2015, 05:33:21 PM
I'll try to explain it as best as I can.
I am not ( extremely ) afraid of the pain because in northern Italy we have good public sanity and laws that force doctors to administrate all the painkillers necessary to erase the suffering ( jusjustt a couple of decades ago I would have been much more worried ). There are also recent structures called "hospices" which are specifically made for pain therapy.
I'm also not afraid of dying in the short time. I'm healty and cautious.
I fear my inability to "figure" how do you feel when you are no more alive. I know that you feel nothing, but that is an abstract concept. Consciousness is felt as a more-or-less continuous state of being. Even when you sleep there is some kind of dream activity.
I know it's not a really clear explanation.
It is very good explanation and I can remember feeling that way. So visualize this. You are like a singularity within your own mind. That is your point of awareness. That is you and is the point where all things are experienced by you. You are surrounded by your mind which is like a universe. You are observing all the interaction going on in your mind. All that exists is within your mind. You now know what you are. Dying is like an implosion of a universe. The universe of your mind begins to contract and all things begin to converge back into you. You as the singularity are observing this happen and you remain very aware. As the convergence completes you absorb everything back into a state of your universe before existence began. Now nobody can say you simply cease to exist because nobody knows. The universe we live in had to come from something. Does that feel better?
I've faced the death question many times both as a religious person and as an atheist. From meeting the loved ones up yonder in the afterlife to so sorry, just a dirt covered corpse. With me the concept of death no longer bothers me, because with watching my wife's slow deterioration there are times when both of us can see death as welcoming. But we live and work at living because the alternative is non experience. I would rather experience life in both the joy and sorrow aspect because it means I'm LIVING.
My day is about monitoring my wife's health including drug intake, getting her to water aerobics 3 days a week and what we do in between for joy. Barbecuing, trying new recipes, piecemeal efforts at living life pretty much hour by hour. My attitude is that the best we can attain in life is to have lived it as fully and as capably as we can, doing as much for not just ourselves but for whatever legacy we leave. Mankind may be ultimately nothing but a failed exercise in evolution, but that doesn't stop us from at least in our own way experiencing and living as best we know how. If my grand children carry on a memory of me and some aspect of my life enriches theirs, then I have done the best I can.
Quote from: Conradine on May 13, 2015, 03:17:06 PM
The thought of death is something that traveled with me for all my life. In the last year has become a bit obsessive.
I fear death a lot. And I don't trust wholeheartedly those who says they do not fear it at least a little.
You know what's worse than dying? Living in constant fear of death and then dying.
Quote from: Hydra009 on May 13, 2015, 10:04:46 PM
You know what's worse than dying? Living in constant fear of death and then dying.
Yeah, total bummer.
I don't think atheists should fear death. Death is really nothing to be feared about. Fear of death is a sickening religious induction.
I don't think atheists should fear death. Death is really nothing to be feared about. Fear of death is a sickening religious induction.
As an atheist I've buried a few religious siblings. Way easier now, because there is no guilt attached, thinking I didn't do right by someone and I need to atone before I got to heaven.
Quote from: drunkenshoe on May 13, 2015, 03:42:54 PM
Why would I be afraid of being dead. I will perish, vanish...etc. I won't exist anymore. What is so scary about that?
And you won't even know you're dead. Which is a bit frustrating, because the people who fly planes into buildings will never find out the error of their ways. If only there could be one final, crystal clear minute at the hour of their death when they realized it was all bullshit.
Quote from: stromboli on May 12, 2015, 11:39:52 AM
http://www.vice.com/read/atheism-terrifies-people-because-it-makes-us-think-about-death-511
As always, read the article. Many people on the forum, myself included, have noted this in the past. We have had threads on death and how we feel about it. It is the single biggest reason we have religion in the first place. The cornerstones of religion:
fear (of death)
guilt
condemnation
judgment
and you have religion.
Every evangelical preacher ever threatened his congregation and world at large with just that, and in every case I can think of targeted some aspect of modern society- currently gay rights- as the thing that will drag us all to hell.
Used to be the rights of minorities.
Used to be rock and roll.
Used to be miniskirts.
And every time a tornado touches down in the bible belt the blame falls on whichever is the current culprit.
Sad.
This has always struck me as odd. I think it would be comforting to know that it was all going to be over and you'd simply wink out of existence at death, with no fear or expectation of anything after. I've always thought that the reason there is an instinctive fear of death is the idea that there is something waiting on the other side...another continuing existence, which remains unknown and mysterious to us. If you also have the idea that you'll be standing before God and being judged, I would guess that might provide another level of fear, but I'm not sure how many people are really thinking about that at the moment of death.