QuoteThe Steam downloadable games shop launched its "Greenlight" initiative in 2012 as a way to open its sales doors to smaller game developers. However, because the shop launched with a glut of inauthentic and joking submissions, the folks at Valve added a $100 fee to "cut down the noise."
Whether or not that fee has been backed by any active filtering or monitoring service, Greenlight still failed to stop a game from launching that clearly violated its terms of service. Kill The Faggot, a light-gun-styled game about shooting gay people made by a California developer, skateboarder, and Christian shoe promoter named Randall Herman, launched for public consumption early Monday morning before being pulled from the Greenlight service hours later.
Before its removal from Greenlight, games critic Jim Sterling downloaded and tested the game, which launched via Herman's game shop moniker Skaldic Games. The resulting YouTube video revealed a crude game that has players aim a bullseye to shoot and kill people who say such things as, "Can I put my weiner in your butt?" and "Whoops, I just dropped the soap." (After playing a minute of the game, Sterling shouted, "Where is the fucking satire? What is it satirizing? Not really anything. It's just being 'the thing.'")
The game makes very clear that its goal is to shoot and kill gay people (with liberal use of the pejorative F-word in the game's title, at that). Players get points for killing gay peopleâ€"more points if the person killed is transgenderâ€"and they lose points for any straight people they kill. It's hard to make a judgment call about the "most" offensive thing in this game, but we were particularly disturbed to hear the game's announcer celebrate a kill by saying, "AIDS carrier eliminated."
Before the game had been taken down, its Greenlight page included many comments from upset customers, including calls to Steam to institute a more rigorous filter or monitoring system so that the service didn't have to depend on community votes. that the mere hurdle of a $100 Greenlight fee apparently wasn't enough to deter people who might break the service's rules. This incident followed a December back-and-forth between Valve and an "adults-only" shooting game called Hatred, which eventually was reinstated on Steam Greenlight.
After KTF was removed from Greenlight, a statement was posted at Skaldic Games' site with a link to a free version of the game and an explanation about its creation. The title had originally been made as a mini-game within a larger open-world adventure that Herman is still working on, he wrote, and he claimed that the game's lack of quality was due to being made "in only a few days."
"These people that think if you are even remotely homophobic, you are 'hateful' and a 'bigot,' and do everything they can to destroy you in every vicious way possible," Herman wrote. "So I decided to go down a path that most developers are afraid to go down: to piss these people off by making the most overly offensive game possible to these idiots to prove a point."
http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2015/05/04/failed-christian-shoe-promoter-makes-anti-gay-first-person-shooter/
And the problem with killing gay people is what exactly?
Is the object to kill people we actually like? Oh, I get it.... Well maybe not...
Quote"These people that think if you are even remotely homophobic, you are 'hateful' and a 'bigot,'...
...okay.
The purpose of this game was to target people that are gay... and for anyone that is transsexual that you kill, you get extra points. It's really fucked up and bigoted.
There should be enough toxic bullshit here to prosecute this piece of shit for hate speech and if he succeeds with his plan, hate propaganda.
If democrats stick around, do you think it could be possible in the next decade?
But when that can of worms opens... other stuff will come out too. Then people will have to accept a certain kind of general harm of media entertainment in gender issues. I doubt that door will open easily. Too much money at stake. Will be a hard and long transition period.
Think about it like this though. When we see tv commercials from 60s and 70s mostly it is disturbing for us now. Probably wil be the same to the people with all this in 2030 or 2040. Though of course this is an exceptionally disturbing example stated in the OP.
Quote from: drunkenshoe on May 06, 2015, 03:20:12 AM
There should be enough toxic bullshit here to prosecute this piece of shit for hate speech and if he succeeds with his plan, hate propaganda.
He lives in California, and overt hate speech is perfectly legal in the US, as it should be. Words should be fought with words. This guy is already being widely condemned for his actions, also as it should be.
Quote from: _Xenu_ on May 06, 2015, 06:11:45 AM
He lives in California, and overt hate speech is perfectly legal in the US, as it should be. Words should be fought with words. This guy is already being widely condemned for his actions, also as it should be.
I don't agree.
Quote from: drunkenshoe on May 06, 2015, 06:13:04 AM
I don't agree.
I had a feeling you wouldn't, but please don't send a tl;dr ticked off rant to my inbox.
Quote from: _Xenu_ on May 06, 2015, 06:17:15 AM
I had a feeling you wouldn't, but please don't send a tl;dr ticked off rant to my inbox.
Are you talking about a pm I have sent you 3 years ago when I was pissed off to SF which you took it as something written to you because of your PTSD?
I haven't had any exchanges of that sort with you other than that. For a long time, not properly even in the forum, let alone smt 'tl:dr' in PM.
Do not use my posts to get attention by creating some fake issue between you and me. I am not interested in your opinions, discuss yours without quoting mine.
Quote from: drunkenshoe on May 06, 2015, 06:33:48 AM
Are you talking about a pm I have sent you 3 years ago when I was pissed off to SF which you took it as something written to you because of your PTSD?
I haven't had any exchanges of that sort with you other than that. For a long time, not properly even in the forum, let alone smt 'tl:dr' in PM.
Do not use my posts to get attention by creating some fake issue between you and me. I am not interested in your opinions, discuss yours without quoting mine.
Just as sweet as I remember you. You did it several times over really minor stuff. I'm putting you back on ignore. Next time you leave, stay gone.
Quote from: _Xenu_ on May 06, 2015, 06:48:09 AM
Just as sweet as I remember you. You did it several times over really minor stuff. I'm putting you back on ignore. Next time you leave, stay gone.
Aw... sorry sweety. I usually snap at people when they call me a psycopath, advertise that I'm sick in some way for nothing -only after I am gone of course- and then try to engage with me out of nowhere, so they can imply that I 'harrassed' them in some way to create a fake issue to get some attention. Please stick to that ignore button this time.
Quote from: _Xenu_ on May 06, 2015, 06:48:09 AM
I'm putting you back on ignore. Next time you leave, stay gone.
So... you want someone's words you don't want to hear to be censored?
Runs a little counter to:
Quote from: _Xenu_ on May 06, 2015, 06:48:09 AMovert hate speech is perfectly legal in the US, as it should be. Words should be fought with words.
In this case, her words aren't nearly as offensive as hate speech and yet you're not willing to fight words with words.
That is kinda condescending isn't it, saying you think someone should have the right to say what they want, and then condemning someone else for saying what they think and silencing them?
Every time assholes like this guy do shit like this it only clarifies to the rest of the world how ignorant and bigoted they are. Let them continue to spew out this garbage and it will only serve as an impetus for people to see them for what they really are.
I'm all for free speech, but yelling fire in a crowded theater with back doors and homosexuals should be condemned in my opinion. Solitary
From a healthy point, it feels like this kind of bullshit should work against them, because it makes sense, and yes up to a point it does.
However, the worst thing about the religious folk is that they are much more organised, vicious, vindictive and compartmentalising up to dangerous levels. And the stupid and the ignorant are not afraid of anything.
If democrats stay in power for the next few period, they will do more for gay rights, secularisation of education and they will move into further stages in some areas religious groups see as fundamentally important. After that is finished, I am guessing they will try to deal with abortion and may be 'forcing' evolution to be thought in schools and banning the teachings of creation? Take a Stab at gun and vaccination issue little by little. None of these attempts need to be revolutionary in the real sense.
Anyway, year by year they will think they are getting 'cornered' and while being preached unbelievable bullshit; inciting hatred among each other, they will also think they need to act to 'survive'. Most of them are armed. Lgbt groups could be the first targets in the near future. Let's hope not. But these things don't take much as you tend to think over there. They have never been a second class citizens before. And they will be worse in near future. What do you guys say to that? Where the rubber meets the road? And they will act through religious bullshit. They will get violent. Probably for some time, it will be wrapped up in 'hate crime' and 'gun issue', treated like isolated events by mentally ill people, but that will have to have an end too if it reaches to a level to be called some sort of 'domestic terrorism' then 'it's the religion!' bullshit will start for Christianity this time. (In the US) People will die. Wow, I managed to depress myself in four lines. :sad2: I fucking hate human culture.
Quote from: Solitary on May 06, 2015, 11:59:19 AM
I'm all for free speech, but yelling fire in a crowded theater with back doors and homosexuals should be condemned in my opinion. Solitary
I don't know, Sol.................my knee jerk reaction is the same as yours. But then, after some thought, I would have to support a KKK peaceful demonstration. I loath everything about them, but if we deny them free speech, then we are denying free speech for ourselves. If our ideas and ideals can be brought down by somebody else talking about them, then maybe they were not as strong as we thought they were. But there is a fine line between free speech and yelling fire in a crowded theater or fighting words or words that incite violence. That is the tricky part.
Quote from: drunkenshoe on May 06, 2015, 12:51:00 PM
From a healthy point, it feels like this kind of bullshit should work against them, because it makes sense, and yes up to a point it does.
However, the worst thing about the religious folk is that they are much more organised, vicious, vindictive and compartmentalising up to dangerous levels. And the stupid and the ignorant are not afraid of anything.
If democrats stay in power for the next few period, they will do more for gay rights, secularisation of education and they will move into further stages in some areas religious groups see as fundamentally important. After that is finished, I am guessing they will try to deal with abortion and may be 'forcing' evolution to be thought in schools and banning the teachings of creation? Take a Stab at gun and vaccination issue little by little. None of these attempts need to be revolutionary in the real sense.
Anyway, year by year they will think they are getting 'cornered' and while being preached unbelievable bullshit; inciting hatred among each other, they will also think they need to act to 'survive'. Most of them are armed. Lgbt groups could be the first targets in the near future. Let's hope not. But these things don't take much as you tend to think over there. They have never been a second class citizens before. And they will be worse in near future. What do you guys say to that? Where the rubber meets the road? And they will act through religious bullshit. They will get violent. Probably for some time, it will be wrapped up in 'hate crime' and 'gun issue', treated like isolated events by mentally ill people, but that will have to have an end too if it reaches to a level to be called some sort of 'domestic terrorism' then 'it's the religion!' bullshit will start for Christianity this time. (In the US) People will die. Wow, I managed to depress myself in four lines. :sad2: I fucking hate human culture.
That kind of makes sense. Cultural paradigm shifts are often preceded by social unrest or sometimes even war. Of course, another scenario would be that the Neocons grab power and reverse course back to their own brand of fascism. What would happen then?
Quote from: Desdinova on May 06, 2015, 01:16:33 PM
That kind of makes sense. Cultural paradigm shifts are often preceded by social unrest or sometimes even war.
Agreed. We are at that door over here right now. :sad2:
QuoteOf course, another scenario would be that the Neocons grab power and reverse course back to their own brand of fascism. What would happen then?
Well, we are just speculating, but I don't think so. Aren't those guys are the ones who played a key role in the Irak invasion? Who still thinks it was a good idea? Because their int. policy outline would not change if they want to stick to their base groups.
I don't know, what do you guys think?
Quote from: Mike Cl on May 06, 2015, 01:13:41 PM
I don't know, Sol.................my knee jerk reaction is the same as yours. But then, after some thought, I would have to support a KKK peaceful demonstration. I loath everything about them, but if we deny them free speech, then we are denying free speech for ourselves. If our ideas and ideals can be brought down by somebody else talking about them, then maybe they were not as strong as we thought they were. But there is a fine line between free speech and yelling fire in a crowded theater or fighting words or words that incite violence. That is the tricky part.
I have to call this incitement. He thinks shooting people like me is
fun for no better reason than that we
exist. As far as I'm concerned, he's not a bigot, he's mentally ill, and this is incitement.
If he'd made a game about shooting African Americans or Hispanics or Asians or Jews with every kill announced by 'Nigger/Wetback/Chink/Kike eliminated', would we even be
having a discussion about free speech
vs. incitement? I think not.
This is not a peaceful demonstration. This is a masturbatorial murder fantasy. I wouldn't want to be within a cubic mile of him when whatever fuse in his brain that currently holds him back blows out, and that he thought releasing a game like this to the public was a good idea makes me think it's about at the end of its duty cycle.
Quote from: trdsf on May 06, 2015, 02:26:18 PM
I have to call this incitement. He thinks shooting people like me is fun for no better reason than that we exist. As far as I'm concerned, he's not a bigot, he's mentally ill, and this is incitement.
If he'd made a game about shooting African Americans or Hispanics or Asians or Jews with every kill announced by 'Nigger/Wetback/Chink/Kike eliminated', would we even be having a discussion about free speech vs. incitement? I think not.
This is not a peaceful demonstration. This is a masturbatorial murder fantasy. I wouldn't want to be within a cubic mile of him when whatever fuse in his brain that currently holds him back blows out, and that he thought releasing a game like this to the public was a good idea makes me think it's about at the end of its duty cycle.
Yeah, you are right. If this were about shooting and killing blacks, there would be a huge protest. Yeah, incitement. It would be fun to see this jerk arrested and drug through the justice system.
Quote from: trdsf on May 06, 2015, 02:26:18 PM
I have to call this incitement. He thinks shooting people like me is fun for no better reason than that we exist. As far as I'm concerned, he's not a bigot, he's mentally ill, and this is incitement.
If he'd made a game about shooting African Americans or Hispanics or Asians or Jews with every kill announced by 'Nigger/Wetback/Chink/Kike eliminated', would we even be having a discussion about free speech vs. incitement? I think not.
This is not a peaceful demonstration. This is a masturbatorial murder fantasy. I wouldn't want to be within a cubic mile of him when whatever fuse in his brain that currently holds him back blows out, and that he thought releasing a game like this to the public was a good idea makes me think it's about at the end of its duty cycle.
I don't think he is mentally ill, but I agree with you.
The thing is, this Christian guy is afforded free speech. However, private enterprise doesn't have to provide one a platform for it. He deliberately violated Steam's Greenlight terms of service, and that's why it was pulled.
quoth Steam:
"Additionally, you agree not to post any item to Greenlight that contains the following:
Someone else’s game or software, unless you have specific authorization to do so
Porn, inappropriate or offensive content, warez, or leaked content
Cheating, hacking, or game exploits
Threats of violence or harassment, even as a joke
Games or software using copyrighted material such as assets or intellectual property without permission from the owner
Soliciting, begging, auctioning, selling, advertising, referrals, racism, or discrimination"
He admitted to "making the most overly offensive game possible" against gays. Which likely flagged it for offensive content.
In my opinion, when we define people who commit violence or express the need to commit this sort of violence as 'mentally ill' -a term often used as the same thing as 'insane' under this topic- we also 'approve' their acts in another level. We avoid or deny the circumstances that create these situations. Because as long as the person who commits these kind of crimes is 'mentally ill' or 'insane', there is no blame or responsibility to be taken. Look, the individual did it. It's warm and safe. It's almost like saying 'god did it'.
In fact, very few people who commit violent crimes are actually 'mentally ill' or 'insane'. We are already violent animals as species. I always think that what turns us into 'monsters' are very simple. A hyped up fantasy life needs and expectations, invented problems, invented issues advertised from every medium; taking inflated egos from extreme highs or lows; disappointment; being 'embarassed' and 'humiliated' for a life and things that actually don't exist. Not tv show serial killer childhood abuses or what is written in some 'holy' book. This doesn't happen to realist people who is enlightened to know that the best you can achieve is being content more or less, no such thing as happiness exists, because that is just a momentary chemical rush.
These people are just people. A very few of them tend to commit these crimes for the sake of the crime to get satisfied with it in some way. Thanks to constantly pumped up paranoia and mass murderer-serial killer types that we are swimming through created by tv shows, Hollywood, FBI...etc around the world, we are fighting with monsters, living in countless fucked up various fantasies we made up and try to arrange some specks of reality from there. :eh:
I think that trdsf used "mentally-ill" in the context that the dude is "mentally fucked up". I don't think that actual insanity was implied.
Quote from: trdsf on May 06, 2015, 02:26:18 PM
I have to call this incitement. He thinks shooting people like me is fun for no better reason than that we exist. As far as I'm concerned, he's not a bigot, he's mentally ill, and this is incitement.
If he'd made a game about shooting African Americans or Hispanics or Asians or Jews with every kill announced by 'Nigger/Wetback/Chink/Kike eliminated', would we even be having a discussion about free speech vs. incitement? I think not.
This is not a peaceful demonstration. This is a masturbatorial murder fantasy. I wouldn't want to be within a cubic mile of him when whatever fuse in his brain that currently holds him back blows out, and that he thought releasing a game like this to the public was a good idea makes me think it's about at the end of its duty cycle.
^this. I can't think of a first person shooter that targets a group in such a specific, homophobic context. I don't know the psychology of going from a video game to reality, but no other game I'm aware of is so specific and so hate oriented. I guarantee if the game was "shoot Mohammed" or "shoot a Muslim" the howls would be very loud indeed.
Quote from: Desdinova on May 06, 2015, 04:40:34 PM
I think that trdsf used "mentally-ill" in the context that the dude is "mentally fucked up". I don't think that actual insanity was implied.
No, actually, I think this level of fucked-up-ness definitely requires a private brain care specialist. He might be declared sane... but I'm pretty sure he's got not only issues, but hard-bound collections.
Quote"These people that think if you are even remotely homophobic, you are 'hateful' and a 'bigot,'...
Yeah... that's kinda the very DEFINITION of "bigot"
As someone who designs game I'm mad this is even a thing. I saw Jimquisition test it and he had the same reaction I did and assuming at how terrible it was made, it seems to have been made only for the message. A hateful message.
I'm all for free speech so I can't say the game shouldn't be made but that doesn't mean anyone has the sell that garbage on any distribution platform.
QuoteI'm all for free speech so I can't say the game shouldn't be made but that doesn't mean anyone has the sell that garbage on any distribution platform.
I guess its cultural, but I honestly don't see how free speech keeps you from thinking something shouldn't be done. Absolute freedom of speech never has and never will exist in the United States, and it never should. And just because you are free to be a bigot does not mean you should be, and to say so does not mean you are somehow anti-free speech.
Quote from: Shiranu on May 10, 2015, 05:50:44 PM
I guess its cultural, but I honestly don't see how free speech keeps you from thinking something shouldn't be done. Absolute freedom of speech never has and never will exist in the United States, and it never should. And just because you are free to be a bigot does not mean you should be, and to say so does not mean you are somehow anti-free speech.
Yes that's true but what I mean to say is we can't tell them they can't make a game that spreads hatred because that's just how it is. If you're a fucking asshole and wanna make a game pandering to other assholes then go for it. But what we can do as a public society is keep that from being sold.
But I can't say we should tell people what they should or shouldn't be, that's unfortunately up to them. And if they were raised in an environment of hatred and bigotry and they become a hateful bigot the most we can do is disapprove of them but their change of who they actually are in up to them
Quote from: Randall Herman"So I decided to go down a path that most developers are afraid to go down: to piss these people off by making the most overly offensive game possible to these idiots to prove a point."
And what point would that be, Randall, old bean?
And developers aren't afraid to go down that path. They just have the good sense to not be a twat. Unlike you.
So is that the point? That when you act like a twat people will call you a twat and a failed shoe promoter? Well, thanks, but we already knew that.