I'm interested in making a list of why people join a religion or become religious. I don't want to make any judgments about whether it is a good or bad reason--just interested in the reasons.
So far I've come up with the following. Please add more and show me where I've doubled up. So far my list has 8 reasons:
1--Hope for an afterlife; fear of death.
2--Socialization
3--Tradition
4--Searching for answers to problems.
5--Comfort and assurance.
6--Searching for purpose and/or meaning in life.
7--A person feels it provides a set of morals and a value system.
8--Lack of responsibility; a lot of people do not take responsibility for their actions and choices and the world they create around them. They look for something to blame and something to send their problems to.
Please add or subtract from this list as you see fit. Thanks.
I don't know if this fits your list, but I see my own experience as a desire to know the unknowable, and control the uncontrollable. Even prayer was an attempt, at best, to know the mind of God, or at least, to move his hand.
1--Hope for an afterlife; fear of death.
2--Socialization
3--Tradition
4--Searching for answers to problems.
5--Comfort and assurance.
6--Searching for purpose and/or meaning in life.
7--A person feels it provides a set of morals and a value system.
8--Lack of responsibility; a lot of people do not take responsibility for their actions and choices and the world they create around them. They look for something to blame and something to send their problems to.
9. Know/control the unknowable.
Thanks Solomon--added to the list.
Don't know what it comes under, but the majority of Mormon converts are from 3rd world countries. I think they are looking for better lives than what they have.
Quote from: stromboli on May 02, 2015, 11:48:00 AM
Don't know what it comes under, but the majority of Mormon converts are from 3rd world countries. I think they are looking for better lives than what they have.
Thanks for the reply. Would that fit under 'socialization', in that they want to find a 'fit' somewhere in our society and that is a good place to start? That could easily be viewed as a ready built network, I would think.
Your reasons seem plausible, but I have limited experience with people becoming religious. Most people are just indoctrinated during early childhood. I've know one person (the only one I know in real life) for 60 years who came from an atheist family and joined the Baptist Church around the age of10 or 12. Her family didn't say much about it. Her brother would just do an eye roll, like it was some kind of childhood phase.
I met her again 30 years later. She had married an atheist, but she was still religious. I had just survived a bout of cancer, and had a clean bill of health. One thing she asked me was, "When you were diagnosed with cancer, didn't you feel any need to believe in God?"
My point is that something about her religion would seem to be necessary in her life when dealing with life threatening circumstances. Like believing in God would make dying of cancer OK, or might even cure cancer. I'm sure she had other reasons for believing, but that one jumped out at me as explaining at least a part of her need.
Now that I'm thinking about it, not for this woman, but for most religious people their biggest reason is that they were indoctrinated with the whole thing early in life, and can't see it any other way. I suppose that falls under #3 Tradition, although I like both the word and concept of "indoctrination", and I think it looms large in the dynamic you're trying to explain.
Quote from: SGOS on May 02, 2015, 12:39:28 PM
Your reasons seem plausible, but I have limited experience with people becoming religious. Most people are just indoctrinated during early childhood. I've know one person (the only one I know in real life) for 60 years who came from an atheist family and joined the Baptist Church around the age of10 or 12. Her family didn't say much about it. Her brother would just do an eye roll, like it was some kind of childhood phase.
I met her again 30 years later. She had married an atheist, but she was still religious. I had just survived a bout of cancer, and had a clean bill of health. One thing she asked me was, "When you were diagnosed with cancer, didn't you feel any need to believe in God?"
My point is that something about her religion would seem to be necessary in her life when dealing with life threatening circumstances. Like believing in God would make dying of cancer OK, or might even cure cancer. I'm sure she had other reasons for believing, but that one jumped out at me as explaining at least a part of her need.
Now that I'm thinking about it, not for this woman, but for most religious people their biggest reason is that they were indoctrinated with the whole thing early in life, and can't see it any other way. I suppose that falls under #3 Tradition, although I like both the word and concept of "indoctrination", and I think it looms large in the dynamic you're trying to explain.
I too, like the word 'indoctrination' as well. I think it fits well under #3. And it does loom large in why people become and stay religious. I seem to remember reading somewhere that if a person were raised in a religion it was not uncommon for them to return to it later in life if they fell away in youth. Indoctrination seems to work.
Add incomplete logic in there. Until I thought it out completely, I was still religious for a while.
Bit tongue and cheek ,but how about . . .
Athazagoraphobia
The fear of being forgotten, ignored, or abandoned.
Gnosiophobia:
Your fear of knowledge
Hellenologophobia
The fear of Greek terms or complex scientific terminology.
Quote from: dtq123 on May 02, 2015, 03:59:49 PM
Add incomplete logic in there. Until I thought it out completely, I was still religious for a while.
I'm curious--were you born into your religion?
But I can see what you are saying--some people lack the training in or ability of critical thinking. That could sure keep one ensnared in a religion.
Expanded list:
1--Hope for an afterlife; fear of death.
2--Socialization
3--Tradition
4--Searching for answers to problems.
5--Comfort and assurance.
6--Searching for purpose and/or meaning in life.
7--A person feels it provides a set of morals and a value system.
8--Lack of responsibility; a lot of people do not take responsibility for their actions and choices and the world they create around them. They look for something to blame and something to send their problems to.
9. Know/control the unknowable.
10. Lack of training or ability of critical thinking skills.
11. To obtain order; gain a comprehensive worldview. (could be related to #6, but it does seem a bit different to me)
Quote from: Termin on May 02, 2015, 05:17:45 PM
Bit tongue and cheek ,but how about . . .
Athazagoraphobia
The fear of being forgotten, ignored, or abandoned.
Gnosiophobia:
Your fear of knowledge
Hellenologophobia
The fear of Greek terms or complex scientific terminology.
Would you consider the first one as being part of 'socialization'? Or do you see it as being different?
Also, could the last two be lumped into the category of lacking training or skill in critical thinking?
Thanks for you input, BTW.
Quote from: Mike Cl on May 02, 2015, 06:18:52 PM
Would you consider the first one as being part of 'socialization'? Or do you see it as being different?
Also, could the last two be lumped into the category of lacking training or skill in critical thinking?
Thanks for you input, BTW.
As for the first, I think it's more closely related to fear of death. Hell, I have no idea who my great grandparents are, and in all honesty I don't care that much. What they did, or who they were is pretty much irrelevant to my life now.
And by extension, that's what my life will mean to people 70 years from now; Forgotten, ignored, and abandoned.
Quote from: Mike Cl on May 02, 2015, 06:18:52 PM
Would you consider the first one as being part of 'socialization'? Or do you see it as being different?
Also, could the last two be lumped into the category of lacking training or skill in critical thinking?
Thanks for you input, BTW.
The first one I wasn't so much thinking the aspect of going to church, but having that imaginary friend always there for you. Social groups don't meet 24/7. An imaginary friend however can always be there. The socialization would only be a reinforcement that the friend is real.
As for the other two, they are potential causes of lacking training or critical thinking, but I would agree with lumping them in.
Quote from: SGOS on May 02, 2015, 07:13:29 PM
As for the first, I think it's more closely related to fear of death. Hell, I have no idea who my great grandparents are, and in all honesty I don't care that much. What they did, or who they were is pretty much irrelevant to my life now.
And by extension, that's what my life will mean to people 70 years from now; Forgotten, ignored, and abandoned.
Yeah, I see what you mean--I agree. Fear of death and wanting to leave a legacy can be powerful in some.
Quote from: Termin on May 02, 2015, 07:22:53 PM
The first one I wasn't so much thinking the aspect of going to church, but having that imaginary friend always there for you. Social groups don't meet 24/7. An imaginary friend however can always be there. The socialization would only be a reinforcement that the friend is real.
As for the other two, they are potential causes of lacking training or critical thinking, but I would agree with lumping them in.
I had not thought of that aspect--imaginary friend. Yes, jesus is watching you all the time. So is Harvey, I think.
Quote from: Mike Cl on May 02, 2015, 11:10:05 AM
I'm interested in making a list of why people join a religion or become religious. I don't want to make any judgments about whether it is a good or bad reason--just interested in the reasons.
So far I've come up with the following. Please add more and show me where I've doubled up. So far my list has 8 reasons:
1--Hope for an afterlife; fear of death.
2--Socialization
3--Tradition
4--Searching for answers to problems.
5--Comfort and assurance.
6--Searching for purpose and/or meaning in life.
7--A person feels it provides a set of morals and a value system.
8--Lack of responsibility; a lot of people do not take responsibility for their actions and choices and the world they create around them. They look for something to blame and something to send their problems to.
Please add or subtract from this list as you see fit. Thanks.
I have only 3 reasons at this point in my life.
1 - Because I actually believe its true.
2 - A deep sense of my own guilt, knowing that I'm a sinner.
3 - A subjective and personal sense of God's presence, protection, and even guiding hand in my life.
I think an older reason would have been socialization, in that my parents were the ones that first led to me Christ at the age of 3 years old. And of course, my parents generally took care of me and looked out for my welfare. They spent their lives trying to help me make wise decisions before I was in the position of being wise. Given that, I felt that the faith that they shared with me could be trusted because they could be trusted.
That reason changed upon my entry into college. I began a serious study of my faith to determine if it were truly, mostly because I was having genuine misgivings regarding original sin, the existence of evil, reliability of ancient documents, etc... Given that, I ceased to be a Christian merely on the basis of my parents having been Christians and sharing that faith with me.
The other 7 reasons you've listed have never really occurred to me at all personally, though I do see them cited fairly often.
Quote from: Odoital778412 on May 24, 2015, 06:35:58 AM
I have only 3 reasons at this point in my life.
1 - Because I actually believe its true.
2 - A deep sense of my own guilt, knowing that I'm a sinner.
3 - A subjective and personal sense of God's presence, protection, and even guiding hand in my life.
I think an older reason would have been socialization, in that my parents were the ones that first led to me Christ at the age of 3 years old. And of course, my parents generally took care of me and looked out for my welfare. They spent their lives trying to help me make wise decisions before I was in the position of being wise. Given that, I felt that the faith that they shared with me could be trusted because they could be trusted.
That reason changed upon my entry into college. I began a serious study of my faith to determine if it were truly, mostly because I was having genuine misgivings regarding original sin, the existence of evil, reliability of ancient documents, etc... Given that, I ceased to be a Christian merely on the basis of my parents having been Christians and sharing that faith with me.
The other 7 reasons you've listed have never really occurred to me at all personally, though I do see them cited fairly often.
Thanks for you reply. I realize that these 8 reasons will not apply to everybody. I was simply trying to gather the top 10 reasons (and why 10--because that seems to be the most popular number for every list) why people are or become religious. I suppose I could add you #2 reason--guilt about not living up to a set of morals. Thanks for your reply.
Quote from: Mike Cl on May 24, 2015, 09:57:27 AM
Thanks for you reply. I realize that these 8 reasons will not apply to everybody. I was simply trying to gather the top 10 reasons (and why 10--because that seems to be the most popular number for every list) why people are or become religious. I suppose I could add you #2 reason--guilt about not living up to a set of morals. Thanks for your reply.
I wouldn't include my own standards as a separate category because it's merely a lower bar subset of moral behavior, or to put it more plainly, it's just about not living up to my own expectations with regard to my own behavior. God's expectations are certainly a lot higher than mine, but the guilt in both is for the same reason.
Also, I wanted to make a observation about your list from the perspective of a long-time Christian. I noted that the list seemed a bit odd to me, but I'd not thought of this until just now. This list actually sounds like a list delineating why people might go to church on a long-term basis, not necessarily why they become Christians. Keep in mind that part of what I'm pointing out is that a lot of people attend church and are not genuine followers of Jesus Christ. Of those people that I have real reason to affirm are followers of Jesus Christ, I can't think of a single one where any of those reasons would actually apply to them. I suspect that the vast majority of those people would give answers similar to my own. Within the Church, there is the concept of the visible and the invisible Church. The visible Church refers to all of the people who fill the pews, whether they're genuine Christians or not. And the invisible Church refers only to those who could be considered regenerate or genuine believers and followers of Jesus Christ.
Quote from: Mike Cl on May 02, 2015, 11:41:27 AM
1--Hope for an afterlife; fear of death.
2--Socialization
3--Tradition
4--Searching for answers to problems.
5--Comfort and assurance.
6--Searching for purpose and/or meaning in life.
7--A person feels it provides a set of morals and a value system.
8--Lack of responsibility; a lot of people do not take responsibility for their actions and choices and the world they create around them. They look for something to blame and something to send their problems to.
9. Know/control the unknowable.
Thanks Solomon--added to the list
Pascal's wager might be included. Since it's an argument believers put to us, "what if you're wrong?" I can safely assume that there are some that only believe just in case! If it were in the list it might look more like "just in case not believing is wrong"
I knew someone who went to the Mormon Temple so she could learn English at the free language classes they offered and practice English with all those handsome missionaries. She ended up being convinced that Mormonism is the One True Truth. She was a sweet, wonderful young lady who ended up marrying some right-wing, men-rule-the-household Mor(m)on who kept her isolated from all non-Mormon society, and she ended up pretty much housebound taking care of their kids. I never heard from her again since she got married; her friends filled me in on the rest, but even they lost contact with her. Sad.
So her motivation for looking into it was language learning. Then she got brainwashed.
Quote from: Odoital778412 on May 24, 2015, 06:35:58 AM
I have only 3 reasons at this point in my life.
1 - Because I actually believe its true.
2 - A deep sense of my own guilt, knowing that I'm a sinner.
3 - A subjective and personal sense of God's presence, protection, and even guiding hand in my life.
I think an older reason would have been socialization, in that my parents were the ones that first led to me Christ at the age of 3 years old. And of course, my parents generally took care of me and looked out for my welfare. They spent their lives trying to help me make wise decisions before I was in the position of being wise. Given that, I felt that the faith that they shared with me could be trusted because they could be trusted.
That reason changed upon my entry into college. I began a serious study of my faith to determine if it were truly, mostly because I was having genuine misgivings regarding original sin, the existence of evil, reliability of ancient documents, etc... Given that, I ceased to be a Christian merely on the basis of my parents having been Christians and sharing that faith with me.
The other 7 reasons you've listed have never really occurred to me at all personally, though I do see them cited fairly often.
Can we leave out child abuse/indoctrination? This might be number one on the list. Nobody realizes better than the church that you must get them while they are young. They have that in common with pedophiles! In such cases the believer rarely, or not until much later, considers non-belief because it was introduced as truth, by the most significant role model in their young life.
These can be divided into broader categories:
A: Fear
1--Fear of death (with a hope for an afterlife).
1a--Fear of hell or divine retribution
B: Social influence
2--Socialization - growing up in a family or community in which a certain religion is simply the normal order of the day.
2a--Indoctrination/brainwashing
3--Tradition
C: Seeking answers
4--Searching for solutions to problems.
4a--Seeking answers to questions.
6--Searching for purpose and/or meaning in life.
D: Need for order, stability or peace of mind
5--Comfort and assurance.
5a--Solace or forgiveness for feelings of guilt.
7--A person feels it provides a set of morals and a value system.
8--Lack of responsibility; a lot of people do not take responsibility for their actions and choices and the world they create around them. They look for something to blame and something to send their problems to.
The next one seems a combination of C and D:
9. Know/control the unknowable.
E: Pragmatism
10--Joining a religion, claiming to be religious, or starting a cult for purposes of political or financial gain
10a--Using religion as an excuse for bigotry, tax evasion, murder or other antisocial behaviors
10b--using religion as an excuse to consume drugs
11--Joining a religion to protect oneself from harm, persecution, imprisonment, torture or death.
Quote from: hrdlr110 on May 25, 2015, 03:28:44 AM
Pascal's wager might be included. Since it's an argument believers put to us, "what if you're wrong?" I can safely assume that there are some that only believe just in case! If it were in the list it might look more like "just in case not believing is wrong"
[/quote
Yeah, I like that. That makes sense to me. I've often been told that or some have asked me that question. Sure--I'm just covering the bases, just in case. Couldn't hurt."
If you want to punish yourself while you are breathing, go become religious.
And the point you touch "searching answers" is not what religion does. Religion always confuses people's brain because its already complicated and always give people orders. It means religion make people feel under pressure and the people who live with that way couldnt have their real ideas and couldnt show their personality.
And yes unfortunately my friends are believer because they need to pray for something they want. They dont ask why it must be like that. And its easy to pray (wait) for things that you must do. This is the reason why they are believers, i mean in my opinion.
I would add 'Social Acceptance' to the list, or Fear of Stigma which is attached to atheism.
I know for my wife, This would be her primary reason to belong to a organised religion. If she didn't care what her friends thought of her, Im certain she would not attend the church.
She has told me that (some of) her 'church friends' suggested that she divorce her atheist husband (me). This used to really piss me off until I realised these "friends" are, for the most part, less educated, ignorant, and intolerant people.
I certainly hold no contempt for them, though. Im at peace knowing I'm a far better person that they could ever hope to be. Okay,, maybe a little contempt. :wink:
Quote from: Mike Cl on May 24, 2015, 09:57:27 AM
I suppose I could add you #2 reason--guilt about not living up to a set of morals.
I think the religion would come first, before the guilt over sin, since only with the religion is there a concept of "sin" in the first place.
Quote from: Atheon on May 25, 2015, 03:32:38 AM
I knew someone who went to the Mormon Temple so she could learn English at the free language classes they offered and practice English with all those handsome missionaries. She ended up being convinced that Mormonism is the One True Truth. She was a sweet, wonderful young lady who ended up marrying some right-wing, men-rule-the-household Mor(m)on who kept her isolated from all non-Mormon society, and she ended up pretty much housebound taking care of their kids. I never heard from her again since she got married; her friends filled me in on the rest, but even they lost contact with her. Sad.
So her motivation for looking into it was language learning. Then she got brainwashed.
I just finished a book called
Under the Banner of Heaven (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Under_the_Banner_of_Heaven) about the LDS church and the Mormon fundies that practically hog-tie their women/girls. Men in the FLDS marry 'em young and marry 'em often, keep 'em subdued and ignorant - not unlike Islamic fundies.
They seem to be convinced that certain people are God's chosen prophets - not just the head honcho (a guy named Monson now), but anyone charismatic enough to attract followers. Apparently on occasion these so-called prophets can persuade people to believe things even more absurd than what they already believe, and thereby convince them to commit atrocities.
And there are some 60,000 missionaries out spreading the poison all over the world!