When the american sniper came into the focus eye, I didn't really think much about it, it wasn't the kind of movie I found appealing, but it wouldn't be the first 'based on real life' movie I've seen.
However, I have read and looked into the truth behind chris kyle, accounts of what he was like, how he fabricated his own life and what he did in iraq, and how he wasn't the big american hero he made himself out to be.
I go by what many have said about him, based on accounts, so I dunno what anyone else here thinks of that. But I've got a problem now. I've recently had a big argument with my mum and older brother, who both saw the movie, and have been brought into everything the movie makes chris kyle out to be, a tragic hero, mum even said she looked on wikipedia to 'confirm what it movie said'.
Maybe someone can help out here, I feel so mad right now, since I've explained accounts about what chris kyle was like, but neither my mum or brother care about that, and would sooner eat it up. Does anyone have any good links to strong evidence of what chris kyle was really like, outside of the hollywood pandering the movie and his book portrayed him as?
There seems to be a lot of accounts about Chris Kyle that don't agree with the movie. Hollywood always takes liberties with facts, and to make a perfect hero, they can't tell the whole story. Usually there isn't that much objection to Hollywood's version of the story. In this case, the amount of contrary testimony is unusual enough to create a lot of doubt about Clint Eastwood's accuracy. My guess is that Clint Eastwood told a story of the ideal perception of a war hero, the man he would like Chris Kyle to be. In fact, the turnout to his funeral tells us the perception was already there among a lot of people who had little reason to know much about him.
There isn't much reason to falsely trash the guy. This is not the Vietnam era. These days, Americans may think poorly of our military leadership, but we still honor our soldiers. There wouldn't be any motive to Swiftboat him like the Republicans did to John Kerry. Chris Kyle is not running for office. He's dead and poses no threat that I can see, other than possibly a threat to truth.
I saw the movie. It didn't leave much of an impression on me. It was kind of John Wayne-ish, which is not a positive thing to say about a movie. I felt no love for the character in the movie, nor did I dislike him. He just seemed like an actor trying to be John Wayne.
Even given my military background, I can't really bring myself to care about what really happened vs. the movie in regards to Chris Kyle. I don't get the hype. He's now on American record as the most kills as a sniper. So... yeah. Why is this important?
You decide Munch!
https://youtu.be/JfmPcVSuBpk
https://youtu.be/6EcIGFQdvJ4
https://youtu.be/uz9ECvYIubQ
https://youtu.be/KB_h_fpUMZM
https://youtu.be/IiVDtNjORbY
https://youtu.be/q9J0G1Unvoc
I personal think he was a braggart and liar about shooting the enemy when he shot children and women. I know personally men who shot innocent people that have PTSD from it and sure as hell don't brag about it. Yes, there were people there that you don't know what their intensions were, but shooting people because you assume they are terrorist is not what I think a professional soldiers is all about. In Viet Nam there were children also that liked to give you a bottle of Coco Cola to drink with battery acid in it---did they get shot? NO! Even though some were by cowards. War is like sports, it brings out the best and worse in people---but to brag about killing people is Bull Shit to me---even if they are the enemy. We went there and invaded their country---what would we do if it was done to us and our loved ones were killed and raped? He is no hero in my opinion, no matter how Fox News and right wing nut case Clint Eastwood portrays him. Solitary :oak: :angry:
The man is a liar and a murderer in HIS OWN ACCOUNTS.
He either shot looters after Katrina from a rooftop (murder), or he lied about it. Evidence points to him lying about it.
He either punched Jesse Ventura over some supposed slight to SEAL's, or he lied about it (the courts say he LIED, and awarded Ventura a huge sum for defamation).
He either shot and killed 2 unarmed supposed carjackers, or he lied about it. Evidence points to him lying about it.
Hmmmm....looks like the guy likes to shoot people even outside of war, AND he was a pathological liar trying to make himself look a hero all the time.
But really, its' hard to convince people of one thing if they are determined to believe another, no matter the evidence.
Thanks guys, this helped. I'm actually really jaded right now about it. I had an argument with my mum about it, and I would have with my older brother, but hes a bit of an intimidating s.o.b, so I don't pick arguments with him much.
It just seems unreal, my own mum, who acknowledges the bullshit in religion and ultra conservationism and has supported me when I came out, yet this one thing, she just got drawn into believing the half truths about it.. and she's not even an american, she said she thought it was a good movie and the character was very deep.
Has anyone here read the book? My younger brother read it and said the guy is basically a yahoo who is really good with guns bragging about how many people he killed. Apparently from his perspective there are good guys and bad guys and the more bad guys you kill the better. He was also very competitive really wanted to have the most kills.
Quote from: GSOgymrat on April 14, 2015, 06:25:02 PM
Has anyone here read the book? My younger brother read it and said the guy is basically a yahoo who is really good with guns bragging about how many people he killed. Apparently from his perspective there are good guys and bad guys and the more bad guys you kill the better. He was also very competitive really wanted to have the most kills.
During the Vietnam war I was going to college and working summers for the Forest Service. I was exposed to all sorts of bosses depending on what crew I was assigned to for the day. We had this one lower level boss, a forester, but new to his career, who would regale us with breathtaking war stories like "The enemy came over the hill, and we wiped them all out." Most of the time I listened but never commented. It seemed like he was giving an account of something that anyone would have been interested in, and I had no reason to not believe him.
One day, I asked him some question or other about his experience, and he confessed that he never saw action, but that these things happened to him during war games training exercises. He seemed slightly disappointed to have to clarify his position. He seemed like he was happy to have everyone assume he was describing actual combat. I've met others like him too, although such people are far from the norm. Some guys seem to like to glorify themselves as outstanding soldier types. I knew one guy that bragged about wanting to settle accounts the way they did with the "Chinks".
On the other hand, I knew a guy with PTS who described some horrifying things, the kinds of things I always suspected were the real parts of war that few survivors told their families. He negated the heroes of war issue somewhat when he told me that surviving Vietnam was not a matter of craft and skill. He said it was just a roll of the dice that determined whether you made it through. I tended to believe him.
yeah, I have met a few "story tellers", but one guy in my home town said he was a "swamp rat", pretty much all he said when asked. Nobody fucked with him, he just sat quietly to the side and occasionally laughed at some other clown in the bar. One day my father and I ended up building a fire place for him and he was helping me carry block up the roof, so I just asked what he did in Nam, "killed a lot, mostly just killed a lot". I left it that.
well the overall impression I've gotten, despite the movie trying to make it seem like he was a scarred man who suffers from PTS later on, he never did, he got off on killing people there, and he was killed by someone who infact did have PTS.
Quote from: aitm on April 15, 2015, 02:49:30 PM
yeah, I have met a few "story tellers", but one guy in my home town said he was a "swamp rat", pretty much all he said when asked. Nobody fucked with him, he just sat quietly to the side and occasionally laughed at some other clown in the bar. One day my father and I ended up building a fire place for him and he was helping me carry block up the roof, so I just asked what he did in Nam, "killed a lot, mostly just killed a lot". I left it that.
I tend to believe that the 'horrors of war' is the norm of all wars. And I think 'hero's' are the same as 'cowards'. It all depends upon what day you see them. I have always had an attraction to war for some reason. I loved to dress up as a soldier and loved to play war as a child. I liked it better than playing football. I don't know why. As I grew older and read more and more war books, I came to realize more and more that being heroic in battle was a fantasy for the most part. My dad became an ammo inspector for the US Army, so we lived mainly on or near Army bases for most of my life. By dad was trained for WW II but was medically discharged a week before his unit was sent to the Pacific. But, later, he made up for it by being sent to Vietnam for a year as an ammo inspector. After he came back, he no longer was a supporter of the war or the govt., even tho he worked for the govt. And he did not talk about it much.
I was drafted out of college, but begged off a semester; I joined the Army rather than be drafted to stay out of the infantry and hence Nam. It worked (but that is another long story), but while on active duty I worked part time at a R & R center. Oh, the stories. And the faces; especially going back to Nam. Once while traveling while on active duty, I had to spend some layover time in the Baltimore airport. I sat behind a group of Marines telling stories. My hair stood on end as one told of how they had hoped to frag their hated Gunny Sgt. by affixing grenades to the head of his cot in his tent. He fooled them, tho when he went to lay down and put his feet where his head usually was; only his feet were blown off--his head stayed on. I really don't think these guys were blowing smoke. My brother went from Baylor, to the Marines, to Nam. And his stomach was blown open by a coke grenade. He spent several months in a hospital in St. Louis--and his head was never the same. It seemed to have been blown on upside down and backwards. I've talked to several good friends from the US Army Reserves and they confirmed that combat is not glamorous, is not fun, is not heroic--it is mind numbing action followed by mind numbing waiting for the mind numbing action to resume. That one minute you are full of adrenaline ready to take on the word and the next minute falling down, curling into a ball and shaking. People do heroic things, but they don't know why. And the next day they have to fight throwing down their weapon and simply running.
It is fairly well documented that in Nam in the typical 10 man rifleman squad, only 4/6 solidiers will be firing at any one time. The rest will be too frightened to fire, too confused, or any number of other reasons. And as far as training went, these guys were pretty highly trained. The more elite units had a higher fire rate, but that is attributed to more intensive training. As Fallout says--War is war, and it'll never change. That is so true. For those in combat there are no 'good' wars or 'bad' wars--only war. And it will never change.
I have grown to realize how very lucky I was to not have gone to Nam, for if I had survived I would not have come home as me.
Starting with the likes of McCain, all these old, white, male fucks who deem we need to go to war, they and their children should be made to serve in combat first. I tend to think that that would very quickly limit the number of wars we engage in.
I've lost all interest in watching hero worship movies and tales of war. I've known just to many guys who have been in wars to buy the bullshit stories of glory and honor..
McCain sold out his country and units from every account I've heard. Sylvia did a lot of digging on him and interviewed several people who knew him during the war..He lived in opulance, not in any kind of harsh prison as the Republicans want people to believe..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dimU4Rv7f_Q
reminds me of this
Quote from: doorknob on April 15, 2015, 07:44:21 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dimU4Rv7f_Q
reminds me of this
Great video! :biggrin:
Good'ol Dusty
10+ years ago at my last job I worked with a guy who was a Navy Seal. This guy had an ego about twice the size of his body at least. Some time after that I met a guy while camping who claimed he'd been a Green Beret, and he was the same sort of egotistical dude. They get these guys for a reason, ultra competitive types that refuse to lose or quit. But I've also met people that are cool dudes that are just as badass, so the profile doesn't always fit the dude.
Quote from: stromboli on April 15, 2015, 09:02:20 PM
so the profile doesn't always fit the dude.
yeah one night a local wanna be cop was bragging about his badass german shepherd and yada yada and he would bet his watch that no one could get past the dog and the guy I mentioned previously, "Bo" simply said to the quiet bar, "lemme see your watch" and the guy showed off the watch and "Bo" said, "I ain't killing a dog for a 50 dollar watch". So the kid kinda trapped by his ego said, " a hundred dollars then" so Bo said, "lets go" . So about 20 of us head to the kids house and no doubt this was a very large shep maybe 115 lbs and every bit pissed. Without any talk, Bo walked up threw the gate opened and shoved his hand into the dogs mouth so deep the dog couldn't bite, then he grasped the dog by the neck so it couldn't back away and turned to the kid, "I'd rather kill you over the dog, gimme my 100.00", the kid dug out the bills while the pour dog was gaggin and then Bo pushed the dog down and put a knee to its throat, he told the kid to hold the dog cause if the dog even got one tooth in him he would kill them both……god I love to tell this story….he took the money went back to the bar and said not a fucking word about it and no one else did around him. One of those types that just could look at you and you would pee.
I feel sorry for the dog though. Wow