I recently was thinking about nothing. Should everyone start with belief in nothing, and then expand from there?
Like starting point would be "I don't exist, nothing exists"
And then people would sorta work from there to maybe
"I have no reason to question my existence, or the existence of what I see"
I wonder if children should be taught this because it would really push back against mindlessness on all fronts. Like I know an atheist who doesn't know much of anything and she accepts pseudoscience as fact, but she is atheist. I also know some creationists who have never questioned themselves
I just bantering
I don't think that Nihilism as a concept would be understandable by children, short of having to deal with death of someone close or some other exigent circumstance. Let them learn it in philosophy 101. and honestly, most people aren't equipped to explain it in an intelligent way to children.
don't worry, our current philosopher in residence will expound away shortly.
Doesn't have to be that complicated, maybe just a short lesson in preschool "hey kiddos some people believe in Jesus, some Mohammed, and some nothing at all" Im aware that in elementary schools they teach tolerance to people who are different but I wasn't exposed to nihilism until I was practically an adult
I guess it couldn't hurt, but it seems an odd choice. Nihilism is the rejection of all human philosophy and rebuilding from there. I'm not sure if a kid can really grasp what that means, since all your brain really processes in the area of philosophy until adolescence is social norms.
Quote from: Contemporary Protestant on February 16, 2015, 10:07:51 PM
Doesn't have to be that complicated, maybe just a short lesson in preschool "hey kiddos some people believe in Jesus, some Mohammed, and some nothing at all" Im aware that in elementary schools they teach tolerance to people who are different but I wasn't exposed to nihilism until I was practically an adult
I don't think it's a correct way to pit those against eachother. So i have trouble with 'teaching' the statement: "some people believe in Jesus, some in Mohammed and some nothing at all". What I mean is that nihilism isn't just a (lack of) religious point of view. Nihilism goes far beyond the belief in prophets and deities, it's a much grander concept. Nihilism is not the same as atheïsm.
That being said, I have no quarrel with saying to kids: "Some believe in this, some in that and some in none of the above." But I don't think you should actively teach 'nihilism' or 'atheïsm' or whatever to children too small to understand properly. These philosophical points, to kids at least, should be explained and mentioned if they show interest and ask questions, surely. But they are indeed too difficult to grasp for extensive and mandatory teaching in preschool, I think.
What I believe should be taught from a young age on is the importance of evidence.
I don't think the mind works that way. We can see in the development of children's thinking that they certainly attach human traits to inanimate objects. My 3 yr old grand kid finds the exact same stone every time she comes over, she calls it her "friend" and she keeps the stone with her all weekend and when she leaves I toss it somewhere in the rock garden where she searches for it and finds it every week. This was not taught to her. The human mind seems to want to find ways to bond with everything in some type of way.
Nilhilism is something for more advanced minds, or in the case of some, complete mindlessness.
Well, there's political nihilism and there's philosophical nihilism. I guess it's the latter kind you're discussing.
I think it's used to indicate that there's no meaning imposed on us from outside ourselves: the universe, or god or whatever might be out there isn't giving us any meaning we may have. Any such meaning can only come from inside each of us, from our own natures and values.
Shouldn't be too hard to share that with kids, when they're ready for that kind of stuff.
Quote from: Contemporary Protestant on February 16, 2015, 09:51:16 PM
I recently was thinking about nothing. Should everyone start with belief in nothing, and then expand from there?
Like starting point would be "I don't exist, nothing exists"
And then people would sorta work from there to maybe
"I have no reason to question my existence, or the existence of what I see"
I wonder if children should be taught this because it would really push back against mindlessness on all fronts. Like I know an atheist who doesn't know much of anything and she accepts pseudoscience as fact, but she is atheist. I also know some creationists who have never questioned themselves
I just bantering
Sounds very Buddhist to me.
To start at neutral and recognize anything added on is biased by what you're exposed to.
Children should be taught logic and critical thinking skills, and never trust authority just because it is by most people, even their parents, in my opinion. Solitary
Quote from: Contemporary Protestant on February 16, 2015, 09:51:16 PM
I recently was thinking about nothing. Should everyone start with belief in nothing, and then expand from there?
Like starting point would be "I don't exist, nothing exists"
And then people would sorta work from there to maybe
"I have no reason to question my existence, or the existence of what I see"
I don't think children should be taught "I don't exist, nothing exists" Because, almost certainly, they would know you were lying to them. Its bad to overtly lie to children because it shakes the very foundation of trust and respect which should exist in a parent/adult & child relationship. Lying to children is a form of child abuse, imo. I have no tolerance for adults who lie to children.
By the same token, I don't think parents/adults should force religion on children. This was done to me as a child and caused a painful rift in the relationship with my parents which lasts to this day.
Generally speaking, children should not be burdened with heavy philosophical bullshit when they are young. That's stuff which can come much later when they are mature and responsible enough to deal with it.
For kids, all the philosophy they really need is "I THINK, THEREFORE I AM" - Descartes
You can't teach children "I don't exist" they are not that stupid to buy into that crap. It is only when you get older and wiser that you get stupid enough to consider the obvious doesn't exist. oy vey.
That is a fancy word for stating reality. But not in the way people want to stupidly demonize. No, long term none of this matters. Our species will go extinct, our plant will die and the sun will die and the universe will go on without us.
Now the bullshit behind that word is in no way does that mean humans cant value the time we have or have to be fatalistic. I still see lots of good in our species but we do need to extend our ride no matter how finite it may be.
I don't see "this is it" as anymore fatalistic as knowing you go to a movie knowing it will end, you still go. You go to sporting events and enjoy them. You read a book knowing it has a last page. You go to a music concert knowing they will play a last song.
Quote from: Contemporary Protestant on February 16, 2015, 09:51:16 PM
I recently was thinking about nothing. Should everyone start with belief in nothing, and then expand from there?
Like starting point would be "I don't exist, nothing exists"
And then people would sorta work from there to maybe
"I have no reason to question my existence, or the existence of what I see"
I wonder if children should be taught this because it would really push back against mindlessness on all fronts. Like I know an atheist who doesn't know much of anything and she accepts pseudoscience as fact, but she is atheist. I also know some creationists who have never questioned themselves
I just bantering
You're implying that evolutionary biology is pseudoscience, but that talking snakes, ribs turning into women, etc are 'science'?
The answer to your question is no. Nihilism as a concept is too difficult for most adults to grasp let alone a child.
Quote from: Moralnihilist on March 31, 2015, 08:33:33 AM
The answer to your question is no. Nihilism as a concept is too difficult for most adults to grasp let alone a child.
Huh? No, it is a stupid concept, it is just a fancy word, over complicated like "ottoman" is a foot stool.
Why should we hide reality from anyone? I think that is bullshit. Yes growing up is hard even for adults, but if we never questioned social norms our species never would have left the caves. The truth is often painful for most, but that still is no excuse to walk on eggshells out of fear that someone might get offended.
The truth is we are finite. As I said before though, that does not have to be viewed as negative or gloomy. Does anyone cry over the death of a bacteria or fly? Does anyone freak out over a team losing a game of a sport they are not into? Can you go to a movie you want to see, enjoy it and not commit suicide because it ended?
It's called life, death is part of it. No one wants it to happen, but it does. The pain is one thing, the fear of not being around loved ones is also understandable. But being afraid of being nothing is absurd because you were nothing 1,000 years ago. It is like freaking out over the seasons changing.
Quote from: Brian37 on March 31, 2015, 08:43:09 AM
Huh? No, it is a stupid concept, it is just a fancy word, over complicated like "ottoman" is a foot stool.
Why should we hide reality from anyone? I think that is bullshit. Yes growing up is hard even for adults, but if we never questioned social norms our species never would have left the caves. The truth is often painful for most, but that still is no excuse to walk on eggshells out of fear that someone might get offended.
The truth is we are finite. As I said before though, that does not have to be viewed as negative or gloomy. Does anyone cry over the death of a bacteria or fly? Does anyone freak out over a team losing a game of a sport they are not into? Can you go to a movie you want to see, enjoy it and not commit suicide because it ended?
It's called life, death is part of it. No one wants it to happen, but it does. The pain is one thing, the fear of not being around loved ones is also understandable. But being afraid of being nothing is absurd because you were nothing 1,000 years ago. It is like freaking out over the seasons changing.
(http://m.memegen.com/0zf5un.jpg)
Well an ottoman tends to be larger than a footstool and can also be used for sitting on. But other than that yes they are similar.
Hiding reality? Dafuq are you talking about. Unless you are trying to say that nihilism is the reality, nobody made that claim.
The third point you made is a classic example of Existential nihilism. Life has no intrinsic meaning or value. Are you arguing for or against the teaching of nihilism to children? Your position seems to be unclear.
The last point you brought up has nothing to do with nihilism.
I am confused on what your intention is with this response to me is. Please elaborate.
No.
Quote from: Contemporary Protestant on February 16, 2015, 10:07:51 PM
Doesn't have to be that complicated, maybe just a short lesson in preschool "hey kiddos some people believe in Jesus, some Mohammed, and some nothing at all"
It seems to me that a comparative study of those three concepts misses the point of nihilism. It comes off sounding like teaching children that the choices are Jesus, Mohammed, or something incomprehensible.
"Which do you choose, kiddies? Oh, and by the way, Mohammed was a really bad person. Now which one is the right choice? You say, Jesus? Good for you. We don't believe the other stuff, do we? No we don't, because they're yucky."
I'm on the side of critical thinking. From there the child can make their own choices.