Public school teaches the shahada, the Islamic prayer for conversions (http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2015/02/public_school_teaches_the_shahada_the_islamic_prayer_for_conversions.html)
QuoteIslam has forced its way into our schools, brainwashing our children. We should all be profoundly concerned, whether we have school age children or not. Because when you capture the minds of young people, you own the future.Quote
Why not? It says separation of church and state.
Nowhere does it say separation of mosque and state.
Quote from: pr126 on February 13, 2015, 01:31:47 AM
Public school teaches the shahada, the Islamic prayer for conversions (http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2015/02/public_school_teaches_the_shahada_the_islamic_prayer_for_conversions.html)
Why not? It says separation of church and state.
Nowhere does it say separation of mosque and state.
That's it, bye. :hang:
(Just kidding, you know what I mean.)
What's next, teaching Paganism and Hinduism? Why teach any religion or religious rituals in a secular society that has made this country great. Superstitious nonsense is destroying this world and the minds of our youth. Enough already! Solitary
Quote from: Solitary on February 13, 2015, 10:48:50 AM
What's next, teaching Paganism and Hinduism? Why teach any religion or religious rituals in a secular society that has made this country great. Superstitious nonsense is destroying this world and the minds of our youth. Enough already! Solitary
So long as it's an elective, why not? I'm perfectly fine (infact would rather like it) if we took various world religions in school. There is a difference between teaching these faiths and converting people to them.
Edit: Meant to answer your question; teach them because, like it or not, religion has had a huge historical, both cultural and in more tangible ways, impact on humanity and is still an influence on the vast majority of humanity. It is ultimately one of the things that makes us very uniquely different from any other known living creature, and I think that makes it very much worth studying... as well as just helping us understand where other cultures are coming from when they do the things they do.
To ask, "why should we study religion" to me feels like as weird of question as asking, "why should we study archeology."... yes, the practical applications are limited, but we understand more and more what it means to be human and that is perhaps one of the most, if not the most, important thing we can learn in life.
The object of the exercise is to proselytize, to spread Islam.
Where is ACLU?
Quote from: Shiranu on February 13, 2015, 01:41:15 PM
So long as it's an elective, why not? I'm perfectly fine (infact would rather like it) if we took various world religions in school. There is a difference between teaching these faiths and converting people to them.
Edit: Meant to answer your question; teach them because, like it or not, religion has had a huge historical, both cultural and in more tangible ways, impact on humanity and is still an influence on the vast majority of humanity. It is ultimately one of the things that makes us very uniquely different from any other known living creature, and I think that makes it very much worth studying... as well as just helping us understand where other cultures are coming from when they do the things they do.
To ask, "why should we study religion" to me feels like as weird of question as asking, "why should we study archeology."... yes, the practical applications are limited, but we understand more and more what it means to be human and that is perhaps one of the most, if not the most, important thing we can learn in life.
Both of my sons were raised Catholic because I think knowledge is good, but ignorance is bad. However, it was with the understanding that they be taught science and formal logic too. So I know what you mean, but teaching one religion is not doing that, and that is the problem. How has religion taught us to be human, please explain. All it has taught is superstition, magical thinking, never question authority, bigotry, hatred, prejudice, intolerance, and ignorance about science in general. We are all TOO human, even the higher animals know shame and guilt, religion teaches that whatever religion you are you are chosen by God to rule the world. How has that worked out so far? Solitary
It is good that the author of this article brings this to our attention but in the end she blames the wrong people. Local school boards have lost great deal of power over the last decade when it comes to choosing curriculum. The state and federal governments control most of the curriculum and the textbook companies have more control. Constantly changing standards means more textbooks can be sold. In some states, private charter schools get to set their own curriculums with little over site.
Because of these changes school boards can't even keep up with the garbage being taught. No local school board would have approved this half empty book and the nonsense in it. Teachers are afraid to object over the risk of termination. The people behind this are the type of politician that the author would support. Instead she has to go tinfoil hat and blame the Muslim Brotherhood with nothing to back up her claim.
When I was in school they only taught the hokey-pokey. They apparently weren't able to turn themselves around...
QuoteI know what you mean, but teaching one religion is not doing that, and that is the problem. How has religion taught us to be human, please explain. All it has taught is superstition, magical thinking, never question authority, bigotry, hatred, prejudice, intolerance, and ignorance about science in general.
It hasn't taught us to be human, it IS being human.
And I know quite a few historical figures who based their greatness, their motivations, on religious belief so clearly that isn't all it has taught.
Quote from: Shiranu on February 13, 2015, 10:33:54 PM
It hasn't taught us to be human, it IS being human.
And I know quite a few historical figures who based their greatness, their motivations, on religious belief so clearly that isn't all it has taught.
I'd argue most of the greatest minds in history also followed religion because it was the status quo at the time.
http://www.snopes.com/politics/education/revere.asp
Quote from: Jmpty on February 13, 2015, 11:14:53 PM
http://www.snopes.com/politics/education/revere.asp
Wow, imagine that... an article about how Muslims are taking over our way of life was scare propaganda.
Never saw that coming...
Ah, Snopes.com. The indisputable fountain of truth.
No further research necessary.
It was a Zionist propaganda all along to make Islam look bad.
Thanks.
From the news story (http://www.wftv.com/news/news/local/9-investigates-dad-protests-islamic-lessons-school/nj7Ny/#__federated=1) linked in pr126's link:
QuoteWagner's concerns prompted a district investigation that found the teacher never tried to indoctrinate or convert students.
Some other students interviewed by administrators said they were not required to recite the prayer aloud. They did discuss a video played during class about the religion, but Blasewitz got frustrated and stormed out when 9 Investigates asked whether the district is considering changes to the curriculum.
Had to break in here an comment on what a poorly written sentence that was. Continued abuse of the conjunctive "but"
Quote
"You're just going to walk away from our interview when we're trying to get information," said investigative reporter Daralene Jones.
Before Blasewitz walked out, he further justified the curriculum, saying students learn specific Judaism doctrine, the Bible and its scriptures, in earlier school years.
"If anything, it's a little imbalanced toward Christianity and Judaism," Blasewitz said.
Federal law allows schools to teach aboutreligion, because it's part of history. But public schools may not teach religion.
Quote from: pr126 on February 14, 2015, 01:35:54 AM
Ah, Snopes.com. The indisputable fountain of truth.
No further research necessary.
It was a Zionist propaganda all along to make Islam look bad.
Thanks.
Well, this is it. The exact moment I stopped taking you seriously.
Scare propaganda that wasn't even factually correct, gets called on it, doesn't retract anything but soldiers on while claiming that the Snopes people are the ones who are actually wrong. Priceless.
Would it help you to further research the subject on the web, just to see if there is any truth at all in the article?
Or it is deemed unnecessary, as it would be utterly inconceivable for such a thing to occur in the education system?
At least it could be confirmed once and for all that this is just a hoax and prove me wrong.
Type this in the search bar and see what is out there: "Islam in the american education system"
What's the big deal? They're not teaching the kids to pray this; they're just teaching its existence as a tenet of Islam. I learned about it too back in school, along with the Jewish Shema and the Christian Lord's Prayer.
The key is they're teaching about it, rather than teaching it.
What's the big deal?
Religion has no place in our state schools (http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/opinion/religion-has-no-place-in-our-state-schools/story-fni0fhie-1226850785701)
QuoteWE do not need more religion in our secular state schools. The Federal Government should resist all calls for the national curriculum to include more teaching about Christianity and God.
I see my mistake now. It only refers specifically to Christianity. My bad. Apologies.
There's a difference between "teaching religion" and "teaching about religion".
Like it or not, religion plays a significant role in historic events. Crusades, holy wars, the Spanish Inquisition, and so much more. It was in a history class that I learned about the shahada and the shema. (I already knew the lord's prayer from my grandparents.)
Indeed, I think classes in comparative religion should be taught in schools.
In public school we were taught Christianity as part of the curriculum. No one, I think, took it more seriously than they took history class, and after I went to gymnasium we were taught about Islam (among others) in an aptly named class called 'religious studies' and that was taught purely theoretically. I don't see what the big fuss is about.
Quote from: Atheon on February 14, 2015, 03:39:48 AM
What's the big deal? They're not teaching the kids to pray this; they're just teaching its existence as a tenet of Islam. I learned about it too back in school, along with the Jewish Shema and the Christian Lord's Prayer.
The key is they're teaching about it, rather than teaching it.
The motivation for teaching this, as well as the actual content of instruction, is unclear to me. I would never trust a news report to automatically get something right either. News reports strive to create discussions like this one. I'd probably have to be there as a parent to decide whether this instruction seeks to promote a religion, or if it's even a necessary part of the curriculum. As I read the article, I'm suspicious about the motivations for teaching it. I'm also wondering if it's appropriate at that level.
Yes, it would be nice to learn about different religions, but it would be nice to learn about a lot of other things, and lower schools are primarily set up to teach fundamentals of reading, writing, and "rithmatic." We can add extras to that basic curriculum but we need to decide if it's worth compromising the basics. We also need to prioritize which of these extra commitments are most necessary if we feel they are vital enhancements. Lots of people have pet ideologies they would like to promote, or certain things that are vitally important to them that they would like to load into the schools, but those agendas may not be necessary in the minds of others.
OK. According to consensus, religions in schools are just fine. And that is coming from atheist.
Sorry, I did not realised that.
I still oppose ANY religious - call it what you will, - in my opinion it is stealth proselytization at best.
Indoctrination at worst.
Quote from: pr126 on February 14, 2015, 07:32:17 AM
OK. According to consensus, religions in schools are just fine. And that is coming from atheist.
Sorry, I did not realised that.
I still oppose ANY religious - call it what you will, - in my opinion it is stealth proselytization at best.
What I'm reading here is that religion in public schools is fine, [depending on the motives for teaching it]. That's what I'm sensing here. However, I would avoid teaching religions at lower levels at all. When a teacher closes his or her classroom door, it becomes an opportunity to express religious bias. I think most teachers try to keep such biases out of the classroom, but from experience we know that many do not. But the overriding concern for me is that I don't see instruction about religions in public schools as an important goal. I think there are more important things to do.
Now lets say that teaching ABOUT Islam is mandated by public schools in the US. Given that most US teachers are Christians, I would expect a bias against Islam as a viable religion. I would expect the outcome to be somewhat favorable to Christianity. Although it would not be the intention, we are opening the door to religious instruction, most likely Christian indoctrination. This would not be sanctioned by public schools, but it's a probable outcome, perhaps not for everyone, but some kids would get a snoot full of Christianity. Others, would probably get some, depending on the religious make up of the classroom as a whole.
I think college is a good place to study philosophy of religion. I found it to be a wonderful experience, but I was of a less impressionable age.
Quote from: SGOS on February 14, 2015, 08:05:38 AM
I think college is a good place to study philosophy of religion. I found it to be a wonderful experience, but I was of a less impressionable age.
Agreed. Teaching children at a young age about religions would be too complex of a subject in that it essentially involves people believing in things they do not have evidence to substantiate. Young children still see things in black or white - either it's true or it isn't. Their minds are geared to believe most of what adults say is true. By the time a student reaches college age, they are capable of understanding more complex ideas, can be taught critical thinking skills, and approach the study of religions in a more detached way.
Learning about religions is important so what we understand why there is such a strong incentive for people to believe in things they do not have any proof to support. Within the details of a given religion, a person can see what it is people had hoped for, what they feared, and see what sort of mental gymnastics a person was willing endure in order to receive their desired reward. It's vital to understand how a person's morality, skepticism, and rationality can be circumvented in the pursuit of what is essentially greed. However, these are not concepts a child can fully grasp and given the impulsive nature of children, they run the risk of falling prey to indoctrination. Children simply do not have the means to study religion without the risk of succumbing to it.
Yes, religion needs to be taught so that we may learn about it, but it would be risky and inappropriate to do so in grade school.
Quote from: pr126 on February 14, 2015, 07:32:17 AM
I still oppose ANY religious - call it what you will, - in my opinion it is stealth proselytization at best.
Indoctrination at worst.
How do you suggest teaching history without talking about religion? Limiting ourselves to Europe, would you simply ignore the roll of monasteries and religious orders in (early) medieval history? Ignore conflicts between the popes and kings? Gloss over the protestant reformation, Thirty Years' War, Spanish Armada?
Quote from: Poison Tree on February 14, 2015, 11:43:31 AM
How do you suggest teaching history without talking about religion? Limiting ourselves to Europe, would you simply ignore the roll of monasteries and religious orders in (early) medieval history? Ignore conflicts between the popes and kings? Gloss over the protestant reformation, Thirty Years' War, Spanish Armada?
I think there is a difference between teaching history where religion was the driving force, or teaching religious rites, rituals and prayers under the guise of "religious studies".
Religious teachings have no place in a secular societies' public schools period! They want to teach it in private schools fine. History is not teaching religion. Solitary
Quote from: Jmpty on February 13, 2015, 11:14:53 PM
http://www.snopes.com/politics/education/revere.asp
Gee. Why am I not surprised that something trumpeted in a fascist rag like American thinker turned out to be bullshit? Why oh why?
Quote from: pr126 on February 14, 2015, 01:35:54 AM
Ah, Snopes.com. The indisputable fountain of truth.
No further research necessary.
It was a Zionist propaganda all along to make Islam look bad.
Thanks.
Not sure if sarcastic or serious....
Learning about people, and their beliefs, from different cultures around the world is just so wrong. Who knows what could happen if we actually had a better understanding of one another. I , for one, teach my children that anyone who is not exactly like us is evil, or at best misguided, and should be dealt with in a manner becoming our supreme culture and ideology.
Is pr a grumpy, old, cynical, close-minded fart or something? I've seen him go off the handle quite a bit like this lately... in the same way I have had conservative christians argue with me that all people that identify as muslims are evil, bloodsucking, rapists and terrorists. (not exactly in those words, but you catch my drift...)
Quote from: PickelledEggs on February 14, 2015, 09:55:12 PM
Is pr a grumpy, old, cynical, close-minded fart or something? I've seen him go off the handle quite a bit like this lately... in the same way I have had conservative christians argue with me that all people that identify as muslims are evil, bloodsucking, rapists and terrorists. (not exactly in those words, but you catch my drift...)
I don't believe I have wrote this in any of my post.
Certainly never saying that
ALL Muslims are evil, bloodsucking, rapists and terrorists.
However, certain posters here do like to conflate Islam and Muslims.
When I am talking about Islam, it is automatically, unthinkingly perceived as talking about ALL Muslims. Period.
I am expecting their instant knee-jerk indignation about my "bad mouthing all Muslims".
I am calling it a Pavlovian reflex behavior.
Truth be told, the daily reports, news about the steady stream of horrors, atrocities, and brutal savagery that is occurring around the planet is cause for concern.
Final point.
I am accusing Islam, the toxic, savage, bronze age, inhuman, divisive ideology and not their followers.
If you want to interpret it as I am talking about ALL Muslims, that is your problem, not mine.
I am sure that if I was criticizing Christianity in the same way, I would be cheered on, rather than scorned by the forum.
I do not need to "knock" Christianity, so many posters doing it already here on a daily basis.
I would be wasting my time.
When I see Christians mass murdering, raping, enslaving, mutilating, beheading, burning all around the planet, I will talk about them too. You can bet on it.
Jmpty wrote:QuoteLearning about people, and their beliefs, from different cultures around the world is just so wrong. Who knows what could happen if we actually had a better understanding of one another.
But I did learn. And I am looking at reality, not some fantasy world I wish it to be.
What I have learned has filled me with revulsion and horror about the vicious savagery, the mindless destruction, the total disregard to human life in the name of the ideology that must not be named.
It is happening here and now, and will continue so unabated in the foreseeable future.
25,114 and counting (http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/)
You are lucky that none of this happening on your planet.
pr, i want to thank you for the link above..........25,114 and counting.
Quote from: pr126 on February 15, 2015, 01:11:28 AM
I don't believe I have wrote this in any of my post.
Certainly never saying that ALL Muslims are evil, bloodsucking, rapists and terrorists.
However, certain posters here do like to conflate Islam and Muslims.
When I am talking about Islam, it is automatically, unthinkingly perceived as talking about ALL Muslims. Period.
I am expecting their instant knee-jerk indignation about my "bad mouthing all Muslims".
I am calling it a Pavlovian reflex behavior.
Truth be told, the daily reports, news about the steady stream of horrors, atrocities, and brutal savagery that is occurring around the planet is cause for concern.
Final point.
I am accusing Islam, the toxic, savage, bronze age, inhuman, divisive ideology and not their followers.
If you want to interpret it as I am talking about ALL Muslims, that is your problem, not mine.
I am sure that if I was criticizing Christianity in the same way, I would be cheered on, rather than scorned by the forum.
I do not need to "knock" Christianity, so many posters doing it already here on a daily basis.
I would be wasting my time.
When I see Christians mass murdering, raping, enslaving, mutilating, beheading, burning all around the planet, I will talk about them too. You can bet on it.
OK yeah. I was obviously exaggerating and generalizing multiple threads with the "bloodsucking" comment. Back on topic though... Do you really think that your link isn't falsified propaganda? Or were you not being sarcastic and instead being genuine with your comment of
QuoteAh, Snopes.com. The indisputable fountain of truth.
No further research necessary.
It was a Zionist propaganda all along to make Islam look bad.
Thanks.
QuoteOK yeah. I was obviously exaggerating and generalizing multiple threads with the "bloodsucking" comment. Back on topic though... Do you really think that your link isn't falsified propaganda? Or were you not being sarcastic and instead being genuine with your comment of
Quote
Ah, Snopes.com. The indisputable fountain of truth.
No further research necessary.
It was a Zionist propaganda all along to make Islam look bad.
Thanks.
It was sarcasm.
If people taking Snopes as the source of "truth", especially when the Snopes article dealt with Massachusetts, while my posted article was from Seminole County, Florida.
These small details do not matter to the political agenda of the left.
Jmpty wrote:QuoteLearning about people, and their beliefs, from different cultures around the world is just so wrong. Who knows what could happen if we actually had a better understanding of one another. I , for one, teach my children that anyone who is not exactly like us is evil, or at best misguided, and should be dealt with in a manner becoming our supreme culture and ideology.
I think this post deserves another comment.
Yes, I have learned about people, and their beliefs, cultures, customs.
None of it is taught in schools or universities.
I shall list some of those here.
Misogyny, wife beating, honor killing, FGM, polygamy, forced marriages, child marriages, Nikah mut‘ah (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nikah_mut%E2%80%98ah) or temporary marriages, aka religiously sanctioned prostitution, gender apartheid, rape, sex slavery, are just a few.
Some more examples of other people's beliefs, customs from different cultures here (read Q.5:33) (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2953742/ISIS-publicly-executes-two-spies-CRUCIFIES-armed-insurgents-young-boys-watch-on.html)
There is much, much more to learn once one is willing to study about people, their beliefs, cultures, and customs.
I urge everybody to do so.