Most people say that "Knowledge is power," but not all knowledge is equal, or is it?
What type of knowledge is meaningful? And is there a dichotomy between these types of knowledge, or is it a spectrum? Is the value of knowledge subjective, or are there times when some knowledge is objectively more valuable than the rest?
I don't hold any position, but I'm thinking of one and will post soon. Until then, please post your positions!
I would suggest that knowledge that is beneficial is "power". The first person who could weave a basket to hold water had as much power in their day as todays person that can manipulate technology. Knowledge that is not beneficial is relegated to useless information.
As the self-declared leading proponent of the Knowledge is Power mantra, I'll take a crack at it.
Some knowledge is more useful than other knowledge. For example, Jim next door is having chest pains isn't particularly useful knowledge compared to say, there's a fire in the kitchen. However, seemingly trivial knowledge can be important later on. The fact that Jim is having chest pains is actually pretty important info when it turns out that he's actually having a heart attack.
And even obscure knowledge can be somewhat important. NASA has been cataloging the hell out of extremely distant galaxies. What's the point? Well, it may help us better understand the universe.
Or take trivia. These are facts that you will never ever use to do anything practical. For example, knowing the famous scene where Indiana Jones shoots his sword-wielding attacker was originally slated as a serious fight scene can help a fan appreciate the scene even more. I'd argue that even trivia has some value.
"Knowledge is power, guard it well." Who said that Hydra? Trivia is my thing!!
(http://media-cache-ec0.pinimg.com/736x/54/a1/bd/54a1bda7c9fb08ea5ea06841a28e9dee.jpg)
Despite what the comic says, I don't think there's really useless or non-meaningful knowledge, there's always a place to put some sort of information to use, it just has to be the right place.
Quote from: GrinningYMIR on January 11, 2015, 10:43:54 PM"Knowledge is power, guard it well." Who said that Hydra? Trivia is my thing!!
Blood Ravens. :P
Close enough!
Quote from: Hydra009 on January 11, 2015, 10:22:56 PM
For example, knowing the famous scene where Indiana Jones shoots his sword-wielding attacker was originally slated as a serious fight scene can help a fan appreciate the scene even more. I'd argue that even trivia has some value.
Why would appreciation in movies be a good validation for making trivia useful? I don't get it.
Quote from: GrinningYMIR on January 11, 2015, 10:43:54 PM
I don't think there's really useless or non-meaningful knowledge, there's always a place to put some sort of information to use, it just has to be the right place.
Could you tell me how learning to solve a Rubik's Cube has any use for an individual?
Quote from: dtq123 on January 12, 2015, 11:27:27 PMWhy would appreciation in movies be a good validation for making trivia useful? I don't get it.
It's not. Recall that earlier, I defined trivia as non-useful information (can't be used to do anything practical), so it's a pretty safe bet that I don't claim that trivia is useful. What I did claim was that trivia possesses at least a marginal value as a source of amusement.
QuoteCould you tell me how learning to solve a Rubik's Cube has any use for an individual?
Actually a Rubik's cube is quite good for memory exercises, hand eye coordination and mental training, there's actually a class that was taught at my high school, Calculus BC I think, where a student had to solve one in a certain amount of time in order to pass an assignment, and then they had to calculate some formula associated with it.
Quote from: GrinningYMIR on January 13, 2015, 08:40:09 AM
Actually a Rubik's cube is quite good for memory exercises, hand eye coordination and mental training, there's actually a class that was taught at my high school, Calculus BC I think, where a student had to solve one in a certain amount of time in order to pass an assignment, and then they had to calculate some formula associated with it.
It's a good memory exercise, I'll give you that.
But other than that test that you mentioned, what purpose does it serve in everyday life?
Quote from: Hydra009 on January 13, 2015, 12:42:21 AM
It's not. Recall that earlier, I defined trivia as non-useful information (can't be used to do anything practical), so it's a pretty safe bet that I don't claim that trivia is useful. What I did claim was that trivia possesses at least a marginal value as a source of amusement.
So... Is amusement meaningless? You described trivia as meaningless, so does that make entertainment meaningless since a source of it is found in trivia?
It's not meaningless even though it may only mean something in and of itself. Being able to recall every team that won the FA Cup is developing the same skill that would allow you recall resistor colour codes.
Think of it as training. :)
There is no such thing as useless knowledge.
Knowledge is a tool (if you want to look at it that way) as much as a hammer or saw is. Plus I think without knowledge, you can't really do anything, least of which is an exercise in power.
So, attaining knowledge (i.e. learning) is pretty much the same as gaining strength, adding to ones power and what one is able to do.
Quote from: dtq123 on January 13, 2015, 08:59:30 PMSo... Is amusement meaningless? You described trivia as meaningless, so does that make entertainment meaningless since a source of it is found in trivia?
Okay, so that's twice now you've come away with things that you think I said that I didn't even remotely say. I'm starting to sense a pattern here. I'm going to be really nice about this yet again, but next time I won't be so nice.
I didn't say that amusement is meaningless. Nor did I say that trivia is meaningless. I actually didn't say that anything is meaningless. So I have no idea where you got that from. I defined trivia as non-useful information, information with no practical purpose. For example,
strengths is the longest word in the english language that contains only one vowel. This isn't a particularly useful fact to know, but it is mildly amusing. Even trivia has some value.
I think all knowledge is good, and ignorance is bad, unless I know a man behind me is going to take my head off with a sword and I can't move. :eek: :shifty: :biggrin2:
Quote from: Hydra009 on January 21, 2015, 09:33:48 AM
Okay, so that's twice now you've come away with things that you think I said that I didn't even remotely say. I'm starting to sense a pattern here. I'm going to be really nice about this yet again, but next time I won't be so nice.
I didn't say that amusement is meaningless. Nor did I say that trivia is meaningless. I actually didn't say that anything is meaningless. So I have no idea where you got that from. I defined trivia as non-useful information, information with no practical purpose. For example, strengths is the longest word in the english language that contains only one vowel. This isn't a particularly useful fact to know, but it is mildly amusing. Even trivia has some value.
Sorry about that, All I wanted to say that it was implied that you said those things and I wanted further explanations or for you to clear up what you were trying to say (since I don't always understand what other people are saying).
This is what you said:
Quote from: Hydra009 on January 11, 2015, 10:22:56 PM
...Or take trivia. These are facts that you will never ever use to do anything practical. For example, knowing the famous scene where Indiana Jones shoots his sword-wielding attacker was originally slated as a serious fight scene can help a fan appreciate the scene even more. I'd argue that even trivia has some value.
Quote from: Hydra009 on January 13, 2015, 12:42:21 AM
...Recall that earlier, I defined trivia as non-useful information (can't be used to do anything practical), so it's a pretty safe bet that I don't claim that trivia is useful. What I did claim was that trivia possesses at least a marginal value as a source of amusement.
(I think at least) By definition, if something is not useful, it is useless. If it is useless, then it should be meaningless, and therefore has no value.
Trivia is a source of entertainment. Trivia is not useful. So shouldn't Entertainment be useless?
I didn't mean to upset you, It was just what I thought you meant. (And apparently I'm stupid because I can't... So sorry about that. If this isn't what you meant, could you correct me on what you're saying? :redface:)
Quote from: Mike Cl on January 18, 2015, 01:43:44 PM
There is no such thing as useless knowledge.
Pretty bold statement there, Proof please?
Quote from: Sal1981 on January 21, 2015, 04:44:15 AM
Knowledge is a tool (if you want to look at it that way) as much as a hammer or saw is. Plus I think without knowledge, you can't really do anything, least of which is an exercise in power.
So, attaining knowledge (i.e. learning) is pretty much the same as gaining strength, adding to ones power and what one is able to do.
I agree, without some degree of knowledge complex life cannot exist.
If I gave you knowledge on every single Disney movie, what could you do with that?
What about knowledge within Documentaries?
See the difference? You may add tools to your toolshed, but unless you can use them they don't serve any purpose.
Quote from: dtq123 on January 21, 2015, 06:06:06 PMThis is what you said:
Thanks for the recap of 1/4 of a page ago, but yeah, I know what I said. Everyone else knows what I said. For reasons that aren't fully clear yet, you're the only one here who didn't know what I said.
Quote(I think at least) By definition, if something is not useful, it is useless.
Exactamundo.
QuoteIf it is useless, then it should be meaningless, and therefore has no value.
Does not follow and does not follow. And those are three different concepts that really shouldn't be used interchangeably.
QuoteTrivia is a source of entertainment.
Correct.
QuoteTrivia is not useful.
Correct.
QuoteSo shouldn't Entertainment be useless?
Correct. Note the term useless instead of meaningless.
QuoteI didn't mean to upset you, It was just what I thought you meant.
Yeah, well, it wasn't. People tend to get pretty peeved about that sort of thing.
Quote(And apparently I'm stupid because I can't... So sorry about that. If this isn't what you meant, could you correct me on what you're saying? :redface:)
I honestly have no idea how to help you at this point. It'd probably be a good idea to just drop it.
Quote from: dtq123 on January 21, 2015, 06:19:01 PM
Pretty bold statement there, Proof please?
Proof? Hmmmm...how do you prove or disprove that? Maybe defining terms may help. What is useless? What does the word itself mean? Or mean to you? Without use is my meaning. One does not always know what objects will be of use for oneself each day. If you don't open a can, then the can opener was useless, at least for that day. That stick that fell out of a tree into my back yard could be considered useless. Except that it rots and adds food for a myriad of living things; plus I've used them often to scrape off dog shit from my shoes when I become careless where I step. A tiny fact or factoid, could win you that last question in a trivia challenge contest for a thousand dollars. Some information or tools are useless to me because I have no interest in that info or lack the ability to use the tool. Simply learning new little bits of trivia exercises the mind and allows it to take in and retain more information. Even if you never use that info, it is still of value in building your brain power. And what you consider useless may be of vital interest to me. Is that proof? Probably not. But when you label something as useless, what I take it mean is that that information is useless to you. So, for you it is useless. And that is okay by me. But it is not useless to everybody.
Point Taken, from both of you.
:redface: