What are your own views/theories about the Jesus myth? I am interested in your views.
I am still developing mine (I am majoring in history with the hopes of getting a PhD in Ancient Civilizations), so I will post mine later.
My view is pretty simple. Jesus never exsisted. Many scholars came to that conclusion (not me)
But I think even the roman catholic church at one point admitted it.
Quote from: SNP1 on December 30, 2014, 11:03:50 PM
What are your own views/theories about the Jesus myth? I am interested in your views.
I am still developing mine (I am majoring in history with the hopes of getting a PhD in Ancient Civilizations), so I will post mine later.
I'm sorta ambivalent about the whole thing. Either way, it doesn't matter. It's like wondering if Odysseus was a real person. Either way, it doesn't make cyclopes or sirens real.
Personally, I think Jesus was a myth, from Robert M. Price's arguments and parallels to other religions at the time. Practically speaking, whether Jesus was a man made myth or historicized myth, the story is not true in any interesting content.
Quote from: Hydra009 on December 31, 2014, 02:27:42 AM
I'm sorta ambivalent about the whole thing. Either way, it doesn't matter. It's like wondering if Odysseus was a real person. Either way, it doesn't make cyclopes or sirens real.
That too.
Sent from your mom.
Quote from: Hakurei Reimu on December 31, 2014, 10:41:49 AM
Personally, I think Jesus was a myth, from Robert M. Price's arguments and parallels to other religions at the time. Practically speaking, whether Jesus was a man made myth or historicized myth, the story is not true in any interesting content.
Jesus is the son of God. But I don't believe in God. Therefore, I don't believe in Jesus. Could there have been a mad prophet running around the desert? Given their numbers on street corners today, I would say it's likely. But the son of God? That chance of such a Jesus is one out of 10 to the 16th power.
I quite simply do not care.
Jesus did exist though! He existed in the mind of a dead man many ages ago who started a cult!
The authors of the new testament are unknown and the non christian accounts from Josephus and Tacitus have been questioned.
So, hardly any real evidence. Paul himself says that he saw Jesus in a dream and he is really the founder of Christianity.
The name "Jesus" was not unique and the story is set during a time when many people were prophesying so... putting all this together my opinion is that the Jesus of the bible is mostly myth even though there may have been a Jesus or two talking up the old testament and putting their spin on things.
I am a fan of Reza Aslan's theory that he is the combination of several revolutionaries at the time (the region was full of people who hated Roman rule) with some philosophical influences and the local religion (Judaism, obviously) added in for good measure. A hodge-podge of previous myths and actual ideas floating around at the time put into one "perfect" body.
Reza Aslan is the worst kind of apologist. His statement that people can be influenced to violence by politics and culture... but that religion can NEVER be blamed for influencing people to violent behavior is self servingly stupid.
Jesus was just another manifestation in the long line of sun gods. Pagan gods centered around the worship of the sun, not unlike Horus, Dionysus or Mithras.
Quote from: Berati on January 06, 2015, 01:38:53 PM
Reza Aslan is the worst kind of apologist. His statement that people can be influenced to violence by politics and culture... but that religion can NEVER be blamed for influencing people to violent behavior is self servingly stupid.
I've never heard him talk about that before, I have only heard his thoughts on the Jesus myth and the cultural boogiemanification (new word?) of Muslims.
Jesus might have been a real person. It doesn't take long for a person to be mythologized. You have a fairly illiterate population and a few people willing to project their own views and attribute them to this guy. Convince them he performed some miracles and you have yourself a religion. It would actually be easier than creating a fake person. As long as Jesus was dead, he couldn't deny walking on water.
It happens quite often actually. George Washington isn't known as a mediocre general with rotten teeth. He's the guy that chopped the tree down but couldn't bring himself to fib about it. Ronald Reagan was the guy that shrunk the government even though it ballooned under him.
Quote from: Shiranu on January 06, 2015, 11:15:27 PM
I've never heard him talk about that before, I have only heard his thoughts on the Jesus myth and the cultural boogiemanification (new word?) of Muslims.
He was all over the TV after the Ben Affleck incident saying that religion does not influence behaviour. Here is a piece from The Humanist that challenges this self serving notion.
http://thehumanist.com/commentary/reza-aslan-religion-and-moral-influence
The name 'Jesus' means savior. Joshua is the same name different language, and it means savior, as well. Joshua was with Moses as he lead the people out of Egypt toward the 'promised land.' Moses did not make it, but Joshua did. The mythical Jesus was the later Jewish attempts to be 'saved', mainly from the Romans and the corrupt temple priests. According to Carrier there were many forms of the Jesus cult floating around before and around the year 70 ce when the Jews were crushed by the Romans. Saviors (or Jesus') were abounding in the land. One cult simply outlasted the others and then began backfilling in the history of their mythical Jesus. Carrier's book is so complete, that if one is at all interested in the subject of the historicity of Jesus and the origin of Christianity, you have to start with him. "On The Historicity OF Jesus" is very dense and full of citations and notes. You can start with that book and locate most of the authors for and against his ideas, and branch out from there.
I believe he might well have existed, as many have said, as a cult leader getting people to follow around him and write stories about him.
He would also have been from tha desert region, so would look like this.
(http://beforeitsnews.com/contributor/upload/238056/images/face-of-jesus-01-0312-mdn.jpg)
White golden boy jesus was made by white americans and spread across the world from that design. The thing I am most curious about, is where did this occur, its obvious looking at the people from Jerusalem today, trying to claim such a character from that region could be anything but brown skinned with dark hair is showing Christianities even further lack of understanding the real world.
(http://www.jerusalemshots.com/i/jerusalem/Jewish-7.jpg)(https://c1.staticflickr.com/3/2439/4102858681_0ea228ee5f.jpg)
The ironic thing, in Chris Kyles book, when he talked about how he loved killing brown people, odds are he probably shot and killed an ancestor of the real life jesus' bloodline.
Well, Munch, a 'Jesus' could have existed. But I find it curious that he left no written record. And there was no written record of him written by anybody else. None of his followers saw fit to write of his 'exploits' and 'teachings'. That seems to me to be beyond odd. Carrier goes into this in his book and after reading it, I am convinced that he is part of a backfilled history of the Christian cult that made it to the top of the heap; when they gained control, they began backfilling the history and destroying evidence, and even more importantly, simply not preserving any opinion other than theirs.
But your question as to when Jesus became 'white' is quite interesting. I had not quite wondered how and when that occurred. That would be an interesting to research.
I waded through (most of) Carrier's book but didn't really study it. I have too many irons in the fire to sit down and do it justice. I really am neither a mythicist nor a historicist because in the end it is only stuff to debate with no conclusion. Like Mike CL said, Jesus was the Greek version of Joshua and very common. About like calling a blond guy named John smith in London the savior. It works either way- he could have been one of many or described in such a way to make him anonymous, a face in the crowd. whether he is real or not is almost moot, because he was still an invention as far as being a savior and supernatural being.