I don't want to beat every christian in an argument, only the one's that annoy me.
Like when a christian told me my critical thinking was a sin and the only way to think critically was for me to learn hebrew and translate the bible. Or when I said a manic street preacher was being annoying someone told me at least they were going to heaven and I was going to hell.
When I was a teen i was a christian who came across a stoic atheist who annihilated my faith. How do I do that? what books should i Read?
Ask them if they believe in any Pagan Gods, then ask them why they don't. Then tell them that is the same reason you don't believe in theirs. :fU: :biggrin2:
You can't win an argument with a Christian, and it would serve no purpose anyway. Just tell them to go pedal their bullshit someplace else.
Welcome. As was already mentioned, you cannot win an argument with any religious person. Why? Because you would want to use logic and reason to back your argument; religious people don't respond to either and use faith for their 'reason.' As for reading material, there are hundreds to choose from. Google things like 'Is Jesus real', or 'Is the Bible factual?', or skeptic sites--and Richard Carrier is a great author to google--as is Richard M. Price. Then when you get a site you like bookmark it and go on to the next. In no time flat you will have a ton of bookmarked site you can read as you wish. Amazon has a huge selection of books and authors if you want to buy books. The internet is cheaper and has more stuff than you can really read.
As for arguments; know yourself and why and what you believe. When you are secure in that arguments will be easy to 'win'.
(http://blog.aglamslam.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/wooden_sunglasses_slugger_bat_slugger_1024x1024_3_1024x1024.png)
Hey Pap, you going to be in Melbourne over the holidays?
Welcome to the forum! :)
And you can't win an argument against a christian. When someone already knows that they are right, no amount of facts will change their mind.
Quote from: aitm on December 19, 2014, 01:16:11 PM
Hey Pap, you going to be in Melbourne over the holidays?
Not this year. Brother Jon is heading this way.
Good for you. Keep me in the loop when you get in the area. Great year to you and yours eh!
Will do. We might be down this summer.
My argument: Whatever. Then walk away.
welcome Eliotnz, dont even bother arguing wi the bstrds, tell them tae fkoff, sorted :dance:
Welcome to the forum, eliontz!
The only real solution is to distance from such people and find other people who have reason and logic to them.
Really, the best way to beat anyone in an argument / debate is to master the subject. Know the facts and know their arguments, even the fallacious ones, know how to work around fallacious arguments, and know how to keep a discussion organized and not overly scattered. Once you can do that you will be able to beat the religious in debates as well as hold your own in other debates and discussions
Sent from your mom.
Quote from: SGOS on December 19, 2014, 05:04:27 AM
You can't win an argument with a Christian, and it would serve no purpose anyway. Just tell them to go pedal their bullshit someplace else.
You can win arguments with Christians. The problem is, the more faith based their belief is, the harder it is. If they use apologetic arguments, then if you can show flaws in their logic, they can be debated with.
Quote from: SNP1 on December 30, 2014, 11:42:58 AM
You can win arguments with Christians. The problem is, the more faith based their belief is, the harder it is. If they use apologetic arguments, then if you can show flaws in their logic, they can be debated with.
You are a little more optimistic about that than I. For a believer, faith is the ultimate trump card. Reason and common sense are nice, and even virtues to shoot for. But, the ultimate badge of being Christian is to follow faith in any and all circumstances. That is especially true when reason files in the face of their faith. They will agree with your reasoning, yet still maintain they and their faith are correct anyway.
Welcome aboard. And as many have previously stated, it's difficult to argue with faith. Remember you're talking about people who let their children die of cancer rather than seek medical attention because they believe the lord will heal them.
Quote from: SNP1 on December 30, 2014, 11:42:58 AM
You can win arguments with Christians. The problem is, the more faith based their belief is, the harder it is. If they use apologetic arguments, then if you can show flaws in their logic, they can be debated with.
It's actually quite easy to beat a believer in a debate. The real trick is getting the believer to understand that they lost. No matter if they win or lose, they will most ALWAYS think they won.
Quote from: Mike Cl on December 30, 2014, 02:06:53 PM
You are a little more optimistic about that than I. For a believer, faith is the ultimate trump card. Reason and common sense are nice, and even virtues to shoot for. But, the ultimate badge of being Christian is to follow faith in any and all circumstances. That is especially true when reason files in the face of their faith. They will agree with your reasoning, yet still maintain they and their faith are correct anyway.
This is true for some people. I once had a Christian friend that knew every argument that I use when I debate, yet still believed. I also know someone that was a Christian that became a deist after we discussed religion. Lastly, I know a Christian that is now an atheist after I debated him (didn't happen immediately, but it did get him to start doubting).
Quote from: PickelledEggs on December 30, 2014, 04:35:19 PM
It's actually quite easy to beat a believer in a debate. The real trick is getting the believer to understand that they lost. No matter if they win or lose, they will most ALWAYS think they won.
Depends on the arguments. There is actually an argument that a theist can use that cannot be refuted. Thing is, it uses a form of Modal logic that only shows if something is possible, not if it is real. It also only shows a deistic god.
CCF - Is a conjunct of all contingent facts in the world
P1) It is possible that a world exists where the CCF has an explanation, and that explanation is q
P2) Explanation q must be a necessary being
P3) It is possible a necessary being exists (from 1 & 2)
P4) If it is possible a necessary being exists, then a necessary being exists (via. axiom s5)
C) A necessary being exists
It also depends on how much you know about debating and refuting arguments.
Quote from: SNP1 on December 30, 2014, 05:52:46 PM
This is true for some people. I once had a Christian friend that knew every argument that I use when I debate, yet still believed. I also know someone that was a Christian that became a deist after we discussed religion. Lastly, I know a Christian that is now an atheist after I debated him (didn't happen immediately, but it did get him to start doubting).
Then keep on truckin'--doing a good job!
Quote from: PickelledEggs on December 30, 2014, 04:35:19 PM
It's actually quite easy to beat a believer in a debate. The real trick is getting the believer to understand that they lost. No matter if they win or lose, they will most ALWAYS think they won.
Yes, that is a major rub.