I submit five examples otherwise, since 2000, in the First World.
http://www.theage.com.au/news/National/Religious-axe-killer-jailed/2004/12/23/1103391878844.html (http://www.theage.com.au/news/National/Religious-axe-killer-jailed/2004/12/23/1103391878844.html)
QuoteA man was jailed for 18 years after he went berserk and killed a man when he and his wife told him they were atheists.
Ashley John Appoo, 40, pleaded guilty in the Supreme Court in Brisbane today to the manslaughter of John Leslie McDonald and causing grievous bodily harm to his wife Alois during a frenzied axe attack on November 18, 2001.
Appoo, a drifter, who was heading to Goondiwindi in far south west Queensland, was hitchhiking near Woodford, north west of Brisbane, when Mrs McDonald picked him up and took him home for lunch.
This happened in Brisbane, Australia.
http://atheism.about.com/b/2007/01/19/murdered-for-being-an-atheist.htm (http://atheism.about.com/b/2007/01/19/murdered-for-being-an-atheist.htm)
QuoteOn October 18, 2004, Larry Hooper was murdered by his friend Arthur Shelton Why? According to Shelton, a devout Christian and an Eagle Scout, Hooper was an atheist and thus the "devil himself." Shelton seems to have believed that, as a Christian and follower of God, he had an obligation to kill Larry Hooper and remove his evil, atheistic influence from this planet.
You're probably thinking that Arthur Shelton was crazy, and perhaps you're right, but there are two factors to consider here. First, even if he was suffering from a mental illness, did his religious beliefs provide the outlet and justification for his violence? Second, there is evidence that Shelton's beliefs were produced not by his mental illness, but instead by his cultural surroundings: his family appears to believe all the things he believed. The primary difference between him and them seems to be that he acted on those beliefs. It can't be mental illness merely to take your beliefs seriously enough to act on them.
This happened in Taylor, Michigan. U.S. of Fucking A. We haven't even gotten to the Old South yet!
http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2012/03/texas-man-allegedly-killed-soldier-for-not-believing-in-god/ (http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2012/03/texas-man-allegedly-killed-soldier-for-not-believing-in-god/)
QuoteOfficials in Clay County, Texas revealed this week that human remains uncovered near the Oklahoma border last month were those of Spc. Jose Ramirez, an El Centro, California native who went missing from Fort Sill, Oklahoma more than seven years ago. A former friend of Ramirez’s, 30-year-old Justin Green, was charged with the murder in February.
Three others, including Green’s mother and sister, also face charges related to helping clean up the crime scene and hide the body, and the story was carried earlier this week by The Associated Press.
But one shocking detail in that story seemed to be overlooked in the AP’s lead: A criminal complaint against the group, obtained by Raw Story on Thursday, shows that Green’s sister believes he killed Ramirez “because Ramirez did not believe in God.â€
While this is not as firm as the first two, it still happened in Texas. Again, the U.S. of Fucking A.
http://videosift.com/talk/Religious-teen-murders-another-teen-for-being-an-Atheist (http://videosift.com/talk/Religious-teen-murders-another-teen-for-being-an-Atheist)
QuoteIn short, two teen friends argue over religion. One is religious, and the other is an atheist. The religious teen grabs a shotgun and shoots the atheist. This was not prosecuted as a hate crime. If religious teen is convicted; the most time he can serve is just over three years. The judge in the case disagreed with the prosecutor and ruled that it was not first degree murder. He also ruled that Nadler would not be charged as an adult. For whatever reason, killing someone because he is an atheist is apparently not a hate crime like it would be if the person were black, Jewish, or Christian. This means the worst that Nadler is facing is juvenile detention until he is 18 years old. Even that is questionable at this point.
From the comments section of that story:
That was brother. That was my big brother the one that was supposed to walk me down the aisle when it came my time to get married. The one who was my protector when I needed him. The one my 11 year old little brother was supposed to go to when he had girl problems or needed someone to talk to. And now what? His life was taken over another child’s stupidity. My brother is dead because another child decided to be a cold-blooded murderer. He shows no remorse whatsoever for he has done. And I have been to every single court date we have had. I got to read the police report. I got to read the judge’s decision. There is SO much that you people along with the rest of them that you guys won't know and never will know. I think you all need to stop and think about what you’re basing your "facts" on. You haven't seen or read or even heard the things I have. So you need to stop and think before you going running your mouths about something you have absolutely no clue about.
Again, U.S. of Fucking A.
http://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/2013/09/03/oakland-man-guilty-of-murdering-friend-during-argument-over-existence-of-god/ (http://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/2013/09/03/oakland-man-guilty-of-murdering-friend-during-argument-over-existence-of-god/)
QuoteOAKLAND (CBS/AP) â€" An Oakland man has been found guilty of first-degree murder for shooting and killing his friend during an alcohol and cocaine-fueled argument over the existence of God.
33-year-old Douglas Yim was also found guilty Tuesday of assault with a firearm and mayhem for shooting a second friend in his living room two years ago.
Yim killed 25-year-old Dzuy Duhn Phan after a night of partying and playing video games. Another friend, Paul Park, testified the two men had engaged in a heated discussion about God.
Yim became enraged and grabbed his gun after Phan asked Yim where God was when Yim’s father died of a stroke several years earlier.
Oakland, California, U.S. of Fucking A.
Did you notice the pattern here? That all of these are devout Christians? Christians living in the First World? Christians living in the First World murdering atheists? Since 2000?
Each of these cases happened in or after 2001, in the First World, in secular countries where the murder of atheists is as illegal as any other murder, and by devout Christians. And these were just the ones who were enraged and crazed enough to take the law into their own hands,
knowing that what they were doing was illegal and they faced punishment for acting on their impulse. Imagine how much worse it would be in a christian theocratic U.S.A., where atheists would
officially be on the government hurt-list, and as such, all you needed to do to make such people disappear was to make a phone call to the police. You don't even have to pull the trigger yourself â€" the state would do it for you! Cleansing of the unholy unbelievers made E-Z! Do any of you seriously think that would not magnify the persecution of atheists by several orders of magnitude?
This is, in a nutshell, why I don't take seriously anyone who tells me that "Christans don't do that kind of thing."
They do. Even in the First World, even in the modern era. Such people are simply not looking hard enough for these cases, or have been seduced by Christianity's own lie of a peaceful religion, or they want to live under the illusion that somehow Christianity really is a religion of peace as opposed to Islam that only claims the title. No. Both titles are just that:
mere claims that the actual behavior of both religions put lie to. I
live in a country where Christians regularly betray themselves as the nasty individuals their religion warps them into, and living in a theocracy run by such people would be as bad as living in the theocratic Islamic states. You can't tell me otherwise, because that claim fails in the face of the facts that I have experienced and gathered.
It is also the reason why I worry more about a Christian takeover of the Western World than a Muslim one. Muslims are "the other," and they act the part. They tend to be loud and outrageous and obvious, which makes it easy to counter them when they act. Christians, on the other hand, are woven into the weft and warp of our culture â€" you can't get away from the imagery and rhetoric, and don't even command a second thought in such cases. They tend to be much more savvy and devious because they know they have to be in it for the long haul, working by trying to normalize their nonsense through guile and repetition.
You have much more to fear from a savvy, numerous enemy than you do from a dumb, rarified one, and the tools that you develop from countering the numerous, savvy enemy will make mincemeat out of the dumb, rarified one. To me, the choice is clear who we focus our main energies on, and who to only pay cursory attention to.
Oh yeah, no doubt. Religion is fucked, period. Call me Islamophobic if you want for posting anti Islamic posts, but I don't hold xtianity to any higher standard. They are just as capable of evil shit as anyone. they have a long and bloody history to prove it.
When I was in the Land Of Dixie at around 12 years old, I had a friend there that invited me over for breakfast. We all sat down for breakfast and his father bowed his head and started to pray. All at once he turned into the devil himself, looked at me, and asked me why I wasn't praying. I told him we don't pray in my family. He got up and ran into another room. My friends mother got a really scared look on her face and told me to leave and run as fast as I could. This idiot came to the door and fired a twelve gauge shot gun at me as I was running away as fast as I could. If I hadn't got out of the house and ran I have no doubt he would have killed me. Solitary
Good thread Hakurei and proof than none of the ''Main'' religions are ''Religions of Peace''.
It would be worse if they could tell we were atheists by looking at us...but then it would get better when they see how many of us there are, and how many of us are among their loved ones.
Those are just a tiny minority of extremist.
The vast majority are peaceful.
You can't condemn all for the deeds of a few.
That is bigotry.
:rolleyes: Which goes to show that there is no information in a constant tone.
Quote from: Hakurei Reimu on November 19, 2014, 05:44:23 PM
Did you notice the pattern here? That all of these are devout Christians? Christians living in the First World? Christians living in the First World murdering atheists? Since 2000?
Each of these cases happened in or after 2001, in the First World, in secular countries where the murder of atheists is as illegal as any other murder, and by devout Christians. And these were just the ones who were enraged and crazed enough to take the law into their own hands, knowing that what they were doing was illegal and they faced punishment for acting on their impulse.
It is also the reason why I worry more about a Christian takeover of the Western World than a Muslim one.
To me, the choice is clear who we focus our main energies on, and who to only pay cursory attention to.
14 countries with Islam as the state religion have the death penalty for muslims who leave Islam to become atheist, how does that compare to a handful of christian nutjobs doing murder which is illegal?
The death penalty for apostasy in 14 Islamic countries is somehow comparable to a handful of christians breaking the law when killing?
Islam has never been reformed, the death penalty for apostasy,blasphemy,homosexuals, witches is why Islam should be the main focus.
Quote from: baronvonrort on November 20, 2014, 05:39:35 PM
14 countries with Islam as the state religion have the death penalty for muslims who leave Islam to become atheist, how does that compare to a handful of christian nutjobs doing murder which is illegal?
The death penalty for apostasy in 14 Islamic countries is somehow comparable to a handful of christians breaking the law when killing?
Islam has never been reformed, the death penalty for apostasy,blasphemy,homosexuals, witches is why Islam should be the main focus.
The point, my dear Comedy Show member, is that
even with the "reforms", this shit still happens. It
still happens even though our Western society has secular laws where killing of atheists is illegal. While the law has changed, the sentiments that atheists are fundamentally evil is still alive and well in Christianity, especially fundamentalist protestant Christianity. The Biblical passages that condemn and kill the unbeliever have never been excised from the Bible, and there are many in my country who claim to take that Bible â€"calls to kill unbelievers and allâ€" literally.
And they
vote.The above cases are the cases where the devout Christians had not only the conviction that atheists are evil, but
also the reckless disregard for the law to take out the atheist scum themselves in spite of what the law says. What if such actions were sanctioned by the government, or carried out by the government? You are only fooling yourself if you believe that such incidents will not skyrocket.
I don't believe that Christians who kill atheists for their lack of belief, or muslims for their wrong beliefs or jews for their missing beliefs, live up to their own religious standards.
Christians should not kill humans, only exception is when they kill seriously terminally ill patients who are in pain and need euthanasia. Still it is wrong to kill other people, but
it should not have any consequences for them.
Killing people for their beliefs or lack thereof, is un-christian.
I don't know about other religions, such as islam or judaism. I think it is un-islamic for muslims to kill, and un-jewish to kill non-jews too, but I am not familiar enough with these religion to be able to speak properly about that.
But I have read alot about Christianity, and I KNOW it is unchristian to kill other humans. Especially for their beliefs or lack thereof.
Quote from: mediumaevum on November 25, 2014, 10:47:50 AMBut I have read alot about Christianity, and I KNOW it is unchristian to kill other humans. Especially for their beliefs or lack thereof.
So let me get this straight, you wouldn't know that it was wrong to kill unless your religion told you so?
Quote from: TubbyTubby on November 25, 2014, 12:02:44 PM
So let me get this straight, you wouldn't know that it was wrong to kill unless your religion told you so?
Of course I would. But religion is just one of many confirmations that it is wrong to kill.
The bible is man-made. If the bible says it is wrong to kill, you have proof that a human community says it is wrong to kill too.
I don't need the bible to tell me it is wrong to kill.
But I am sure a lot of other people need someone to beat the biblical message of non-violence into them, so to speak ;)
Whether it comes from the Bible, or by a buddhist monk or simply as your mom telling you not to kill, is irrelevant. If it works, its fine.
Quote from: mediumaevum on November 25, 2014, 12:50:57 PMI don't need the bible to tell me it is wrong to kill.
Glad to hear. Ultimately, where does the moral of not killing your fellow species come from?
Quote from: mediumaevum on November 25, 2014, 12:50:57 PMBut I am sure a lot of other people need someone to beat the biblical message of non-violence into them, so to speak ;)
I suspect you are being sarcastic about 'biblical message of non-violence' so I won't pursue that.
Quote from: TubbyTubby on November 25, 2014, 01:15:14 PM
Glad to hear. Ultimately, where does the moral of not killing your fellow species come from?
I don't think theres anything specific about not killing your own species.
Ultimately, we shouldn't kill anything, but then we wouldn't live either. We need food. If we don't kill animals, we kill plants to eat them.
We need to kill to eat. Or kill to protect ourselves. Be it from other or our own specie.
So, we kill to live. Unfortunately, this is how nature works.
However, there is a vast difference between killing your farm animals to eat them, and killing your neighbor because you disagree with him.
QuoteI suspect you are being sarcastic about 'biblical message of non-violence' so I won't pursue that.
No, I was sarcastic about my own saying of "BEATING the message of NON-VIOLENCE into them".
Quote from: mediumaevum on November 25, 2014, 10:47:50 AM
Killing people for their beliefs or lack thereof, is un-christian.
I don't know about other religions, such as islam or judaism. I think it is un-islamic for muslims to kill, and un-jewish to kill non-jews too, but I am not familiar enough with these religion to be able to speak properly about that.
But I have read alot about Christianity, and I KNOW it is unchristian to kill other humans. Especially for their beliefs or lack thereof.
You...
know that it's unchristian? You didn't get
that from the Bible, I can tell you that much:
Suppose you hear in one of the towns the LORD your God is giving you that some worthless rabble among you have led their fellow citizens astray by encouraging them to worship foreign gods. In such cases, you must examine the facts carefully. If you find it is true and can prove that such a detestable act has occurred among you, you must attack that town and completely destroy all its inhabitants, as well as all the livestock. Then you must pile all the plunder in the middle of the street and burn it. Put the entire town to the torch as a burnt offering to the LORD your God. That town must remain a ruin forever; it may never be rebuilt. Keep none of the plunder that has been set apart for destruction. Then the LORD will turn from his fierce anger and be merciful to you. He will have compassion on you and make you a great nation, just as he solemnly promised your ancestors. "The LORD your God will be merciful only if you obey him and keep all the commands I am giving you today, doing what is pleasing to him." (Deuteronomy 13:13-19 NLT)
Anyone arrogant enough to reject the verdict of the judge or of the priest who represents the LORD your God must be put to death. Such evil must be purged from Israel. (Deuteronomy 17:12 NLT)
They entered into a covenant to seek the Lord, the God of their fathers, with all their heart and soul; and everyone who would not seek the Lord, the God of Israel, was to be put to death, whether small or great, whether man or woman. (2 Chronicles 15:12-13 NAB)
1) If your own full brother, or your son or daughter, or your beloved wife, or you intimate friend, entices you secretly to serve other gods, whom you and your fathers have not known, gods of any other nations, near at hand or far away, from one end of the earth to the other: do not yield to him or listen to him, nor look with pity upon him, to spare or shield him, but kill him. Your hand shall be the first raised to slay him; the rest of the people shall join in with you. You shall stone him to death, because he sought to lead you astray from the Lord, your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, that place of slavery. And all Israel, hearing of this, shall fear and never do such evil as this in your midst. (Deuteronomy 13:7-12 NAB)Quotes from your own holy book, dearheart. In a way, the Christians cited in the OP are more Christian than you are.
Quote from: Hakurei Reimu
Anyone arrogant enough to reject the verdict of the judge or of the priest who represents the LORD your God must be put to death. Such evil must be purged from Israel. (Deuteronomy 17:12 NLT)
It must be so confusing for your average bible believer to reconcile this verse with 'thou shalt not kill'. No wonder they're fucked in the head.
Reminds me when I play with our cat and its playfulness starts to get a bit rough and it starts biting. It has 2 opposing thoughts, one is it likes biting and killing and the other is 'I like this hand because it gives me food and strokes me'. The 2 thoughts make it insane and it usually runs off so it doesn't have to try and process it.
Same thing must happen with a bible believer when they read Deuteronomy and then Exodus 20:13. Human brain can't process these opposing statements - result = run away and forget it (or make some shit up to justify it).