Hello everyone,
I am a closet atheist. Most of my friends and family don't know that I am an atheist, though I do suspect that many of them already know or are weary. To me, religious discrimination is very important to me, because I see it all the time. I have seen people lose friends because they can't handle them being an atheist. Atheists have been shown to be the least trusted group in America, and I really hope that will change.
On the topic of discrimination, I did intend on posting in the Christian forums about this, but I might as well here. For one of my classes in college, I have to do a "community Immersion Project", and I am hoping that what I am planning on doing will be sufficient for the assignment. Like I said, religious discrimination is important to me, specifically Christian discrimination against Atheists, and vise versa. If you don't want to, you don't have to. If you could, could you respond with at least 5 or so misconceptions/stereotypes that you think Christians have towards Atheists. My hope is to ask the same questions towards Christians, and have Atheists respond to what the christians say, and the christians also respond to the atheists. Like I said, you don't have to, but I would really appreciate your feedback, because I cannot post anywhere else at the moment. Thank you, and have a nice day.
Hi theorange4, welcome to our forum (or shark tank, as you prefer...).
As for your survey, I don't see any problem. Here my answers:
1. "Atheists don't have morals"; this is a typical misconception, based on the wrong assumption that you can't have morals without a "higher authority". The "golden rule" was around much before Christianity and adopted by atheist thinkers (for example, the Buddha).
2. "Atheists hate God"; no, we don't hate your or any other god; we can't hate something we don't believe exists.
3. "Atheists choose atheism so that they can have whichever lifestyle they desire without feeling guilty"; no, we can feel guilty just like anyone else when we realise we did something wrong, because we have morals (see 1).
4. "Atheists know God exists, they just don't want to admit it"; no, we don't believe God exists because we don't see any evidence for it.
5. "Atheism is a religion just like Christianity"; no, atheism is a label which indicates only a lack of belief in god(s). Regarding everything else, atheism doesn't have any position.
DITTO! Solitary
The same. Copy/paste from DunkleSeele:
As for your survey, I don't see any problem. Here my answers:
Quote1. "Atheists don't have morals"; this is a typical misconception, based on the wrong assumption that you can't have morals without a "higher authority". The "golden rule" was around much before Christianity and adopted by atheist thinkers (for example, the Buddha).
2. "Atheists hate God"; no, we don't hate your or any other god; we can't hate something we don't believe exists.
3. "Atheists choose atheism so that they can have whichever lifestyle they desire without feeling guilty"; no, we can feel guilty just like anyone else when we realise we did something wrong, because we have morals (see 1).
4. "Atheists know God exists, they just don't want to admit it"; no, we don't believe God exists because we don't see any evidence for it.
5. "Atheism is a religion just like Christianity"; no, atheism is a label which indicates only a lack of belief in god(s). Regarding everything else, atheism doesn't have any position.
Quote from: DunkleSeele on October 27, 2014, 06:08:16 PM
Hi theorange4, welcome to our forum (or shark tank, as you prefer...).
As for your survey, I don't see any problem. Here my answers:
1. "Atheists don't have morals"; this is a typical misconception, based on the wrong assumption that you can't have morals without a "higher authority". The "golden rule" was around much before Christianity and adopted by atheist thinkers (for example, the Buddha).
2. "Atheists hate God"; no, we don't hate your or any other god; we can't hate something we don't believe exists.
3. "Atheists choose atheism so that they can have whichever lifestyle they desire without feeling guilty"; no, we can feel guilty just like anyone else when we realise we did something wrong, because we have morals (see 1).
4. "Atheists know God exists, they just don't want to admit it"; no, we don't believe God exists because we don't see any evidence for it.
5. "Atheism is a religion just like Christianity"; no, atheism is a label which indicates only a lack of belief in god(s). Regarding everything else, atheism doesn't have any position.
I appreciate the responses so far. :)
Welcome to you. :)
Hey orange, glad to have you on board. Welcome to our little band of heathens.
As for you question, Dunkle already gave you a few that I agree with. But I'll try to give you some other ones.
1. "Atheïsts believe there is no god." - "While in practice and daily life it amounts to pretty much the same thing this is the "wrong way" to come to the atheïstic position. While there are some of us, and even here on this site, that say they believe there is no god and that they can even prove this, most atheïsts claim not to believe in a god. There is a fundamental difference there in that atheïsm is foremost a lack of belief. It holds no burden of proof because it is the default position. Atheïsts must not be able to prove why they don't think there is a god. So it's not: you believe there is no god. But it's you don't believe there is a god."
2. "Atheïsts think life is meaningless." - "As some of our earlier discussions on this site have shown, depending on the meaning of the word 'meaningless' our answers on this can be very different. That's so because, as Dunkle already mentioned, atheïsm is simply the lack of belief in a God and holds no sway in other parts of life. I for one don't think there is a prescribed 'reason' for being here, for example, but make my own in being there for the people who I care about."
3. "Atheïsts think you are big accident." - "Wrong on two levels. The first being that atheïsm in itself holds no claim as to how we came to be. It is simply the refution of a certain (theïstic) proposition, it does not inherently teach say evolution. And secondly evolution teaches you are the the result of random mutations in non-random environments."
4. "Atheïsts can just choose to believe if they want to." - "No, no more than a person of faith can suddenly choose to 'not be convinced' of the existance of a certain deïty, we can not choose to be convinced of that same existance. You can choose your actions like going to church, taking communion, reading the bible, praying, ... but you can not choose your convictions and the way your mind works. And what would be 'choosing' religion would simply be pretending, which is for many people an unacceptable condition."
5. "Atheïsts are trying to take away rights of theïsts." - "I'm not American, and here in Belgium we don't have the same degree of religious problems, though we are not without them. But what I see in America is that when freethinking groups or secularists take an action, they are most often simply inforcing something that's in their own constitution (seperation of church and state)."
6. "It takes more faith to be an atheïst." - "No. It doesn't. Because it doesn't take a Muslim more faith to not believe in the hindu gods or the roman gods or the Norse gods. And it doesn't take a christian more faith to not believe in any of the egyptian or aztec gods. You don't need faith for the lack of a belief in something."
We do however eat babies and worship the devil and desecrate graves at midnight.. OK, You got us there theists.. :liar:
Quote from: AllPurposeAtheist on October 28, 2014, 07:59:55 AM
We do however eat babies and worship the devil and desecrate graves at midnight.. OK, You got us there theists.. :liar:
And don't forget the orgies! Lots of orgies!
And we all do drugs. Lots and lots of drugs.
All us atheists are the monsters from creepypastas
Thank you to everyone that has replied to this so far. In the next three hours, I plan to take the data from both Christians and Atheists, and present each others stereotypes for the second phase of my assignment. I do appreciate the humor in your guys' responses. If you have anything else that's serious to add on to this, I would appreciate it. Thank you everyone that has responded and anyone that will respond! :) Hopefully I can get up to 10 posts, so I can post my next part in the actual Christian section of this, rather than just the introductions. Like I said, feel free to add any final thoughts! :)
To get up to 10 posts, you can reply to all existing threads in the forum.
Quote from: theorange4 on October 28, 2014, 06:09:31 PM
Thank you to everyone that has replied to this so far. In the next three hours, I plan to take the data from both Christians and Atheists, and present each others stereotypes for the second phase of my assignment. I do appreciate the humor in your guys' responses. If you have anything else that's serious to add on to this, I would appreciate it. Thank you everyone that has responded and anyone that will respond! :) Hopefully I can get up to 10 posts, so I can post my next part in the actual Christian section of this, rather than just the introductions. Like I said, feel free to add any final thoughts! :)
This was pretty well covered, but in some format ask about morals, ethics and 'being and doing good'. I've often heard that atheists don't know how to be good, or even what good is. All organized religions love to prattle on about 'love' --God is love. But what does that mean? Try to pin a theist down on what that means on an everyday level and it can get pretty slippery. The theists I know don't think atheists can have the positive emotions and actions because they don't know what those are; that atheists only have the negative emotions and actions available to them. Once again, trying to get a theist to define what it is they mean can be quite the slippery job. Good luck on your assignment.
Thank you everyone who has responded to my questions! :) I think that this is sufficient for the next part of my assignment, and I will consider everything that has been posted for that. Again, I appreciate everyone that has taken the time to respond!
Quote from: Mr.Obvious on October 28, 2014, 04:33:36 AM
Hey orange, glad to have you on board. Welcome to our little band of heathens.
As for you question, Dunkle already gave you a few that I agree with. But I'll try to give you some other ones.
1. "Atheïsts believe there is no god." - "While in practice and daily life it amounts to pretty much the same thing this is the "wrong way" to come to the atheïstic position. While there are some of us, and even here on this site, that say they believe there is no god and that they can even prove this, most atheïsts claim not to believe in a god. There is a fundamental difference there in that atheïsm is foremost a lack of belief. It holds no burden of proof because it is the default position. Atheïsts must not be able to prove why they don't think there is a god. So it's not: you believe there is no god. But it's you don't believe there is a god."
2. "Atheïsts think life is meaningless." - "As some of our earlier discussions on this site have shown, depending on the meaning of the word 'meaningless' our answers on this can be very different. That's so because, as Dunkle already mentioned, atheïsm is simply the lack of belief in a God and holds no sway in other parts of life. I for one don't think there is a prescribed 'reason' for being here, for example, but make my own in being there for the people who I care about."
3. "Atheïsts think you are big accident." - "Wrong on two levels. The first being that atheïsm in itself holds no claim as to how we came to be. It is simply the refution of a certain (theïstic) proposition, it does not inherently teach say evolution. And secondly evolution teaches you are the the result of random mutations in non-random environments."
4. "Atheïsts can just choose to believe if they want to." - "No, no more than a person of faith can suddenly choose to 'not be convinced' of the existance of a certain deïty, we can not choose to be convinced of that same existance. You can choose your actions like going to church, taking communion, reading the bible, praying, ... but you can not choose your convictions and the way your mind works. And what would be 'choosing' religion would simply be pretending, which is for many people an unacceptable condition."
5. "Atheïsts are trying to take away rights of theïsts." - "I'm not American, and here in Belgium we don't have the same degree of religious problems, though we are not without them. But what I see in America is that when freethinking groups or secularists take an action, they are most often simply inforcing something that's in their own constitution (seperation of church and state)."
6. "It takes more faith to be an atheïst." - "No. It doesn't. Because it doesn't take a Muslim more faith to not believe in the hindu gods or the roman gods or the Norse gods. And it doesn't take a christian more faith to not believe in any of the egyptian or aztec gods. You don't need faith for the lack of a belief in something."
I like your responses. I am curious though why your i's in the words atheist and theist all contain an umlaut?
My native language is dutch, in which 'atheist' is translated into 'atheïst'. I have a habit of misspelling it as such :D
Afternoon theorange4 and welcome.................... :popcorn:
welcome-and enjoy the forums here :)
wow, I didn't realize I already posted in this thread.
me sleepy today.
well welcome again :=P
Here's the post that I obtained the stereotypes from:
http://www.christianforums.com/t7848743/
Here's the post where people responded to your stereotypes:
http://www.christianforums.com/t7848916/
I hope you enjoy reading this.
One more: atheism is not a belief, it is a non belief in anything without reliable evidence.
After looking at the other forum, my first thought was, how many of them are former atheists? We have a lot of former theists on here. To make the claim they understand us is less likely if they haven't been us. I speak about my attitudes on religion from an experiential viewpoint because I was religious. My experience is that not many people have stopped not believing to believe. Many if not most of the people on here were previously religious. I think the reverse on theist forums is less true.
Religion is also highly geocentric. In Utah you are likely a Mormon, in the Middle East Islamic or Jewish, India a Hindu, Southeast Asia a Buddhist. Atheism is far less geocentric overall, we have people here from different countries and locations. I read headlines that many people in Saudi Arabia are becoming atheists, even though penalties against it are harsh.
I know many people who converted to Christianity from Mormonism and vice versa. I'm not aware of a mass exodus from atheism to various faiths, but rather the reverse. Churches are shutting their doors for lack of believers. The percentage of people leaving religion is growing, not the reverse.
Likewise I have read statistics that scientists in the fields of Cosmology, Physics, Biology and other earth sciences are more likely to be atheists. Even historians, now. Know any devoutly religious Paleontologists?
I think, in sum, I am correct in my opinions.
After looking at the other forum, my first thought was, if this turns out to be the ploy of a troll who's trying to get two forums to bug each other; that's a well thought out plan. But I don't think we've seen any increase in spam or prolethysing so it was just a cynic thought.
After looking at the other forum, my first thought was, could i have an ounce of the good shit your all smoking :shifty: :dance: :dance:
(http://i61.tinypic.com/2hmga47.png)
Quote from: Green Bottle on November 22, 2014, 10:06:10 AM
After looking at the other forum, my first thought was, could i have an ounce of the good shit your all smoking :shifty: :dance: :dance:
(http://i61.tinypic.com/2hmga47.png)
Served only at Chucky Jesus's.. :biggrin:
(http://i1160.photobucket.com/albums/q490/atheola/1362258464258-1-1_1.jpg)
:eek: Holy crap that's a homely baby! :biggrin:
Quote"Atheists choose atheism so that they can have whichever lifestyle they desire without feeling guilty"
Whereas some people choose christianity because they are allowed to ignore the rules they don't like, choose the ones they do and think that god is fine with that.
They are allowed to lie, steal, cheat and harm other people but as long as they confess in their home secretly to the wall, they are "forgiven" for it.
They are allowed to blame all their misery, fuck-ups, faults and misfortunes on the wishes of god, instead of their own poor choices.
When all else fails they are allowed to proclaim that "this was the answer I heard from god'...an nobody call really argue with that.
Atheist are far more moral that the religious.
The term "righteous indignation" comes from religion, not secularism. We do not get righteously indignant on issues as they do.