I'm curious. What do you guys think of spanking children? Do you do it? Was it done to you? If you do spank, why? If you don't why?
Where are the vikings?
And honestly, I don't agree with spanking, but that doesn't mean I'm against putting children in there place if they misbehave. I think of raising children in the same sense as raising a dog, you need to learn tricks and methods to make them understand whos the boss, and when you say something they follow it.
Spanking just promotes violence with the child that hitting is okay. I've seen it with my nephews, my older nephew, whos 4 now, when he misbehaved he has very occasionally be spanked for it. The result ended up that he shrugged it off, but the process had a negative effect in that now he thinks because he's the older brother to his younger brother, whos 2, that its okay for anyone older then you to hit someone younger.. so of course, he hits his baby brother when he misbehaves, not knowing his limits, and thus hurting him.
So no, spanking is not a good method. Using other methods like the naughty step or the naughty stool, or being put in time out is more effective.
I don't have kids, but I got spanked, not formally, just slaps in the face and blows about the head and shoulders (so to speak), not actual blows, but definitely physical contact. I'm not a violent person. I would have a hard time mustering whatever it takes to be violent.
My kids are far too old now to spank. I use other more insidious methods now, like taking their cell phones away, no video games, no friends over, that sort of thing. When they were younger between 4 and 10, let's say, one or two slaps to the bum was all. And that had to be for something extreme that they were doing at that moment and it was rare. Sometimes you can explain to them why they shouldn't do something and it will work, other times you just have to reinforce it with a quick butt slap. I would never advocate the use of a switch or a belt. Switching a 4 year old like Peterson did was in my opinion extreme and unwarranted. And yes, I was punished with switches and belts when I was a kid.
My brother said something that, although I've yet to see it happen and dare say he'd react differently if it actually did happen, is to just let kids fuck around sometimes and get hurt, like falling over, having something rebound and hit them, and to learn the consequences of doing things ends up getting you hurt, otherwise they will never learn.
Okay, to be fair, I should answer those questions too. I was spanked by my parents--mainly my mother. Mom told us that when I was a baby--between 1 and 2--my dad spanked me so hard that she found hand prints on my butt. The two of them had a talk and my dad confessed that he go so worked up when spanking me that he did not trust what he would do, so he said that mom would have to be the one who did that. So, that's the way it was. Was spanked fairly rarely. But spanked nonetheless. Didn't like it and so I did not spank my child at all. Well, I did once--caught her riding her bike in the road and swatted he once or twice more from fright than anything. But I did discipline her--tried to teach her that her actions had consequences. Those consequences could be good or bad, depending upon what she did. If she needed to be disciplined, then I tried to make the consequences fit the transgression. I see a difference between punishment and discipline. We all need discipline. Punishment, not so much. Discipline teaches--punishment reacts.
I think most people in this country believe that spanking is good, at times, and even necessary. I, and 30 countries, disagree. Spanking is not necessary or even good in the long run.
Oh--the vikings--that was my poor attempt to link this subject to the Minnesota Vikings and Peterson in particular.
i would venture to say that the more fundamental a christian is, the more likely he would be to spank a child. And this is why:
Spanking in the Bible:
The phrase "spare the rod and spoil the child" is often incorrectly attributed to the Christian Bible. It does not appear there. It was first written in a poem by Samuel Butler in 1664. 1
Corporal punishment is strongly recommended in the Hebrew Scriptures (Old Testament). Most of the biblical quotations advocating corporal punishment of children appear in the book of Proverbs. Christians interpret these passages in different ways:
-- Religious conservatives generally believe that the book of Proverbs was assembled by King Solomon, circa 1000 BCE. He brought together a group of sayings which were already current in his time; some may have been his own thoughts; others may have been first written down centuries earlier. 2The passages which deal with spanking presumably reflect his parenting beliefs with respect to his son, Rehoboam.
-- Religious liberals generally believe that Solomon first introduced "ancient oriental 'wisdom' to Israel and it later became customary to attribute all books belonging to this particular literary genre to him. The actual authors of Proverbs were the successive generations of wisdom teachers (or 'wise men') who had charge of the moral and practical training of young men of the court and upper classes...." King Hezekiah is mentioned in Proverbs 25:1. Thus, Proverbs in its current form, cannot date from earlier than than his reign in the 8th century BCE. It may have been assembled as late as the 4th century BCE. 3
The following quotations come from the King James Version (KJV) of the Bible:
-- Prov 13:24: "He that spareth his rod hateth his son: but he that loveth him chasteneth him betimes (diligently)."
-- Prov 19:18: "Chasten thy son while there is hope, and let not thy soul spare for his crying."
-- Prov 22:15: "Foolishness is bound in the heart of a child; but the rod of correction shall drive it far from him."
-- Prov 23:13: "Withhold not correction from the child: for if thou beatest him with the rod, he shall not die."
-- Prov 23:14: "Thou shalt beat him with the rod, and shalt deliver his soul from hell (Shoel)."
-- Prov 29:15: "The rod and reproof give wisdom: but a child left to himself bringeth his mother to shame."
An additional verse from the New Testament is occasionally cited as justification for physical punishment of children:
-- Hebrews 12:6-7: "...the Lord disciplines those he loves, and he punishes everyone he accepts as a son. Endure hardship as discipline; God is treating you as sons. For what son is not disciplined by his father?"
From our study of conservative Protestant books on child-raising, and the content of numerous radio programs on Christian radio stations, it appears that many fundamentalist and other evangelical Christians equate "punishment" and "discipline" with "corporal punishment." But it is not clear whether the discipline, referred to at the end of this New Testament verse, refers to corporal punishment or to some other form of correction (e.g. removal of privileges).
Never spanked a child. Never got spanked as a child. everybody I know who was physically abused became physically abusive.
The only time I remember being hit by my parents was my dad, once when I was 6 and took my trike to ride down a hill near my house without telling my parents, so when they found me, first thing my dad did was hit me hard across the head and taking my trike off me.
He did it again when my grandma was round once, I was 11 and he thought he'd fuck around, jumping in front of me and acting like a clown, so i shoved him out the way with my feet, making him fall back, he responded in back handing me so hard and calling me a cunt at the top of his voice, leaving a brush and yelling at me to go to my room.
Needless to say I never got on with my father, he was drunk 98% of the time.
I was never spanked and I wouldn't spank my kids. I've worked with kids with mental health and behavioral problems and never felt it was necessary. Kids model adults and if you demonstrate through your behavior that hitting someone is how you act when you are angry or frustrated that is what they will learn. I also think that because I was never spanked or hit as a child I won't tolerate physical aggression in my close relationships as an adult.
Mym parents never spanked me, but my mom hit me twice. Once when I was totally historical she slapped me to get my attention, once when I stayed out in a bad neighborhood when I got hime she swatted my butt once pretty good out of a fear/relief respond I think. She swatted our hands gently though, when teaching how to ride a horse or cook or what have you, but I do not consider that hitting. It never hurt, was more of a showing us away from touching a hot pan or walking behind the horse sort of thing.
I do not hit my kid. Once we swatted her butt and it only made everything worse. We punish by taking away TV or computer time, or a time out alone in her room if she really needs it but that is almost never. I do not think hitting solves anything except in the rarest situation. Such as my mom slapping me when I was super hysterical. That seems warranted even to super non-violent me.
I regard the following as a national disgrace.
Analysis
By Julie Crandall
Spanking has its place, most Americans say â€" but not in school.
The public by a 2-1 margin approves of spanking children in principle, and half of parents say they sometimes do it to their own kids, an ABCNEWS poll found. But an overwhelming majority disapproves of corporal punishment in schools.
Sixty-five percent of Americans approve of spanking children, a rate that has been steady since 1990. But just 26 percent say grade-school teachers should be allowed to spank kids at school; 72 percent say it shouldn't be permitted, including eight in 10 parents of grade-schoolers.
Indeed, even among adults who spank their own child, 67 percent say grade-school teachers should not be permitted to spank children at school.
I was spanked, and feel no ill effects from it but...
When my oldest daughter was born, my Grandmother wrote me an email saying that she still regrets spanking her kids and that she would like me to consider not spanking my kids. I have taken her advice and now have 2 very well behaved daughters in elementary school. I haven't found it to be necassary and the thought of hitting my kids is too unpleasant to consider as an option at this point.
My family was mostly raised by my mother and she was always one to look for smart solutions over violence. Dad was never around. He was a small frail man anyway, so I'm pretty sure it wasn't on his agenda. Never knew any of my brothers of sisters that ever engaged in it, and I think my mother was the reason.
I spent two years attending a Jr. High School (Johnston Jr. High--Anniston, Ala) that permitted corporeal punishment by the teachers. Each teacher had a paddle and used it. The PE teacher had his office lined with paddles that were filled with the names of those who had been paddled 100 times or more. Some had holes drilled into the paddle, which were made by the school's wood shop. In all my school years, those two years had the most ill behaved students. The reason the PE teacher had so many retired paddles, was that he would often have relay races in his classes--the losing team got 5 swats each. Not fond memories for this little old yankee.
My one dad never touched me, not even a hug, but my other dad used a switch on my ankles (Under my breath I said ("I hate you! I hate you for ever!), and my mother used a belt on me when I got home from running away from home for 3 months when I was 15---once!
When my sons were in grade school and I was picking them up in the car, a woman teacher had a paddle and told a boy to face her which he was, then she got really mad and told him to face her again. He was really scared and confused because he was doing what she told him. She grabbed a hold of him and turned him around and told him to grab his ankles. When she did she acted like she was insane hitting really hard until the paddle broke. I got out of the car and slammed the door so hard she looked up at me coming at her with fire in my eyes. I grabbed the paddle that was still in her hand and told her she's lucky it was broke.
I went to the principle and told him if any teacher touches my boys I would show him what it's like to get hit with a fist in the face. He said it was the school policy. At that time there was an article condemning it in Play Boy magazine. I sent him letter after letter with the article signing it concerned parents. Using violence against children teaches them that to get their way use violence. I'm not talking about a pat on the bottom when they don't listen. But actually hurting a child.
My older son got completely out of hand and I didn't know what to do when he got hysterical at 15. Our of frustration I slapped him in the face. I read about why he got liked that and found out about the three day cure. I was being too strict with him. So I used the cure for three days letting him do what ever he wanted as long as he didn't hurt himself. It worked! A few days later he came and thanked me. I had no idea why. He said he was sorry and he had it coming. I told him that no he didn't, that I was expecting too much out of him by being too strict.
There is a big difference between discipline and being cruel in my opinion. The military has discipline, and very seldom resorts to physical violence on soldiers. A good teacher has discipline and doesn't have to resort to violence. I could always tell when a teacher was good or not when I walked into their class rooms. When the children were quiet and behaved the teacher was always very nice. When the children were loud and rowdy when the teacher wasn't in the room, the teacher was loud and threatening or making fun of the students when she came in. They also always had a cluttered and messy desk and unfriendly to me. Kids learn from authority by being like them. Solitary
Quote from: Mike Cl on September 17, 2014, 11:45:49 PM
I spent two years attending a Jr. High School (Johnston Jr. High--Anniston, Ala) that permitted corporeal punishment by the teachers. Each teacher had a paddle and used it. The PE teacher had his office lined with paddles that were filled with the names of those who had been paddled 100 times or more. Some had holes drilled into the paddle, which were made by the school's wood shop. In all my school years, those two years had the most ill behaved students. The reason the PE teacher had so many retired paddles, was that he would often have relay races in his classes--the losing team got 5 swats each. Not fond memories for this little old yankee.
Gracious!! What year was this?
It sounds like you had a horrendous time in my home state.
It is my goal to replace that bitter taste with the sweet taste of a Southern Honey Suckle.
May your not-so-fond memories be steamed from your consciousness like butter melting into a bowl of cheese grits.
May the memories of Southern accents calling you "yankee", be replaced by the voice of a seductive Southern belle offering you a yank. And may your memories of the land of cotton make you feel less like a carpet-bagger and more like the blooming of a sweet tobacco posey which is the rose Alabama... Amen my brother... Amen...
That's nice!
Quote from: williemack on September 18, 2014, 12:07:21 AM
Gracious!! What year was this?
It sounds like you had a horrendous time in my home state.
It is my goal to replace that bitter taste with the sweet taste of a Southern Honey Suckle.
May your not-so-fond memories be steamed from your consciousness like butter melting into a bowl of cheese grits.
May the memories of Southern accents calling you "yankee", be replaced by the voice of a seductive Southern belle offering you a yank. And may your memories of the land of cotton make you feel less like a carpet-bagger and more like the blooming of a sweet tobacco posey which is the rose Alabama... Amen my brother... Amen...
That was 1958 and 1959. It was a weird time, at least to me. Then kids could leave school legally at age 16. So we had quite a few 15 yr olds in grades 6 and 7 then. I rode a bus from Anniston to Bynum (it was the home of an Army supply depot where my dad worked), at the end of the day, and it was not uncommon for two or three fights to be going on near where the buses were parked. On the up side, I got to see my first pictures of fully naked women and girls.
I'm sure things have changed quite a bit in Anniston these days. This was so long ago that kudzo was not know of . I lived in a dry county then so stills were still operating in the woods; we were pretty much allowed to go where we wanted to by my mom--but we stayed away from those. Also had the 'colored' signs above bathroom doors and drinking fountains. And there were many places where they were simply assumed to be displayed; movie theaters, lunch counters, schools, churches, things like that.
Don't get me wrong. Things were not all that bad as seen from my perspective. What rests in my memory more than the stories I've related was that of family. I had 5 brothers, so a game of tag, or 'war' or Clue, or baseball was just a 'what'ya-wanta-do' away. TV was black and white and wasn't watched much--outside was the name of the game. Grab a bike, or a baseball glove and bat, or hand full of pine cones and head to the woods; outside was where it was happening--after the chores were done, of course. Baseball cards, the taste and smell of honeysuckle, biscuits and gravy, (keep the grits), fried chicken, watermelon, the biggest dew berries I ever saw or tasted, swimming in the lake and the lunch spread after--all fond memories of that time and place.
So, williemack, thanks for the thoughts. As with everywhere and everywhen, there are good and bad things. Alabama was/is no different. And I must admit, southern belles with their soft, sweet accents are quite alluring.
I would also like to go on record that I personally have never spanked a Viking. :naughty:
I'd never let a school hit my child even though they're grown up now and would be violent to anyone at a school who did because I was beaten pretty good a few times or more as a kid in grade school and to this day believe that the school principal where I went was a sadist who probably got a hardon inflicting pain to kids.
That said, I did spank my son and a few swats at my daughter I'll regret to my dying days even if my kids have forgiven me for it.
I think most parents who do spank do so reluctantly, but many completely lose it. Should it be outlawed? No because we already have the highest incarceration rate in the world and jailing every parent who spanks would only make it much worse, but a robust public education approach to get parents to find better alternatives definitely wouldn't hurt.
Quote from: stromboli on September 18, 2014, 01:55:46 PM
I would also like to go on record that I personally have never spanked a Viking. :naughty:
That is too bad! Cause Vikings like it!! Ohhhhh, yyyyeeeaaahhhhhh!
http://www.last.fm/music/Two+Inch+Astronaut/_/spank+jail
What the fuck was that Strom? Are you going Punk? :super: :eek: :pidu:
Spank Jail. Hey, its a new experience.
I'd probably give a partial right nut to spank a Viking..
(https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQoMG0tqpzaVq00wYPs-UEQzn3DBCknf-lfy1SPtlU7KLeobGli3R-rfJ2I)
I have given my kids a swat on the rear a few times. I don't consider that spanking. One swat is for them. More than one, the rest are for you.
Quote from: stromboli on September 18, 2014, 03:37:44 PM
Spank Jail. Hey, its a new experience.
I want to spank Strom's avatar.
Me too. :biggrin: