https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hsLAj4eURUM&list=UU7YOGHUfC1Tb6E4pudI9STA
Christian hell is pretty fucking weak when it comes to the whole torture for eternity thing.
likewise christian heaven isn't that great either compared to other religions version of it. Christians spend eternity kissing gods ass, while.. I think its Buddhism, you become your own god or something?
hell is allegedly a place devoid of god, thus devoid of good, no fire, no pitchforks, no little demons running around, no eternity in pain.
Source is Reason, Faith and Tradition by Martin C. Albl, Chapter 7 page 188 â€" describing hell.
"We begin with a reminder of limitations of our language. Since hell, according to Christian doctrine, is a supernatural reality, it can only be described in analogies. Holy Scripture teaches us the essence of hell in images. When it speaks of the fire of hell, it is not to be understood in a grossly realistic sense. The images of fire and pain were ways of expressing the essential Christian understanding of hell â€" that it is a separation from God. We may define heaven as simply being with God, and hell, in contrast, is simply being without God. It is thus an existence without goodness and without meaning."
Visit Columbia, South Carolina. Hell.. That is all.
Quote from: goodwithoutgod on September 13, 2014, 08:33:13 PM
hell is allegedly a place devoid of god, thus devoid of good, no fire, no pitchforks, no little demons running around, no eternity in pain.
Source is Reason, Faith and Tradition by Martin C. Albl, Chapter 7 page 188 â€" describing hell.
"We begin with a reminder of limitations of our language. Since hell, according to Christian doctrine, is a supernatural reality, it can only be described in analogies. Holy Scripture teaches us the essence of hell in images. When it speaks of the fire of hell, it is not to be understood in a grossly realistic sense. The images of fire and pain were ways of expressing the essential Christian understanding of hell â€" that it is a separation from God. We may define heaven as simply being with God, and hell, in contrast, is simply being without God. It is thus an existence without goodness and without meaning."
So hell is quite simply an eternity without god in metaphor.
Sounds like paradise to me.
but we all know the rules of hell like the rule of the bible change and contradict itself every time its explained, so we can make up our own rules for how it would be. My hells gonna be on a beach surrounded my hot guys.
Quote from: Munch on September 13, 2014, 09:08:22 PM
So hell is quite simply an eternity without god in metaphor.
Sounds like paradise to me.
but we all know the rules of hell like the rule of the bible change and contradict itself every time its explained, so we can make up our own rules for how it would be. My hells gonna be on a beach surrounded my hot guys.
All of the hot guys look like Edward James Olmos, and by hot, you mean they all have the flu
Quote from: GrinningYMIR on September 13, 2014, 10:07:59 PM
All of the hot guys look like Edward James Olmos, and by hot, you mean they all have the flu
Ah but apparently gods the one who torments people, so if God isn't there, I could make friends with lucifer and have all the man serpents I want.
Sorry, mage, but the notion that isopropyl alcohol burns cooler than other flames is dead wrong. Look at the flames. The alcohol flames, while feeble, is unmistakably blue. That indicates a hotter flame, >10,000 K. Alcohol may ignite at only a few hundred degrees, but it burns much hotter, as indicated by the blue color of its flame. It doesn't glow very strongly because, being a light fuel, it doesn't form the carbon particulates that are actually what you see in an orange glowing flame.
The reason why you can get away with an alcohol flame is because your normal alcohol is usually mixed with water (thus absorbing much of the released energy), and that the alcohol doesn't have much heat of combustion and a small droplet is not much fuel of any kind. This combination of factors means that you can burn some store-bought isopropyl alcohol on your desktop or wetted sparingly on your skin without much harm.
Gathered in bulk, in a lake of pure alcohol burning for hundreds of years, and the situation changes. It becomes equivalent to sitting in a big can of burning sterno (much the same stuff), and that stuff can certainly set light to paper or you. It really doesn't matter what kind of fuel you're sitting in, you get burned just the same.
Quote from: AllPurposeAtheist on September 13, 2014, 08:50:23 PMVisit Columbia, South Carolina. Hell.. That is all.
During the summer. :P
Quote from: Hydra009 on September 14, 2014, 12:36:45 AM
During the summer. :P
Lol I'm not sure he's talking about the temperature....
Trust me, whatever's wrong with South Carolina is exacerbated tenfold at unbearable upper 90s heat combined with high humidity.
My version of hell: imagine Texas if it had a never-ending summer, lots of africanized honeybees, and everyone's a Jesus freak. Plus, the only internet provider is Comcast, the only movies star either Adam Sandler or Jim Carrey, the only standup comic is Carlos Mencia, and the video games are all made by EA, which require Origin to run. Oh, and the radio has this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kqgUIKYVKmY) on repeat 24/7.
Quote from: Hydra009 on September 14, 2014, 01:07:58 AM
My version of hell: imagine Texas if it had a never-ending summer, lots of africanized honeybees, and everyone's a Jesus freak. Plus, the only internet provider is Comcast, the only movies star either Adam Sandler or Jim Carrey, the only standup comic is Carlos Mencia, and the video games are all made by EA, which require Origin to run. Oh, and the radio has this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kqgUIKYVKmY) on repeat 24/7. And radios are stationed everywhere and stuck in the "on" position.
fify*
Quote from: goodwithoutgod on September 13, 2014, 08:33:13 PM
hell is allegedly a place devoid of god, thus devoid of good, no fire, no pitchforks, no little demons running around, no eternity in pain.
Source is Reason, Faith and Tradition by Martin C. Albl, Chapter 7 page 188 â€" describing hell.
"We begin with a reminder of limitations of our language. Since hell, according to Christian doctrine, is a supernatural reality, it can only be described in analogies. Holy Scripture teaches us the essence of hell in images. When it speaks of the fire of hell, it is not to be understood in a grossly realistic sense. The images of fire and pain were ways of expressing the essential Christian understanding of hell â€" that it is a separation from God. We may define heaven as simply being with God, and hell, in contrast, is simply being without God. It is thus an existence without goodness and without meaning."
Almost everything about the above description differs (and differs greatly) from the Christian Hell I was taught, as a Christian. It's a more appealing version of Hell, something less scary, but it's just Martin Albl's description. And having never been there, he really can't say it's anything more than conjecture. In fact, his version of Hell and my version of Hell are both bullshit. When you die, your brain decomposes and you are left with no apparatus with which to experience anything, and so Heaven and Hell, even if they did exist, would be irrelevant.
AFAIK the initial idea of hell came from the Valley of Gehinnom (Gehinnam, depending on dialect) where people used to be sacrificed centuries ago, and where people used to dump their crap, dead animals, dead enemies etc. and someone used to set fire to it every now and again when it started to smell too bad. I saw a picture of it covered in snow a while back - so hell does indeed freeze over. :dance:
Quote from: Munch on September 13, 2014, 09:08:22 PM
So hell is quite simply an eternity without god in metaphor.
We're all already in Hell then. :)
Actually, it is pretty much any church on Sunday.
I wonder if the idea of Hell as the absence of God was concocted by Christians who had doubts they were righteous enough to avoid a Hell of fire and brimstone. So they invent a Hell that would be pretty much like their lives during a normal Monday through Friday week day. :grin:
Quote from: SGOS on September 14, 2014, 02:31:22 PM
I wonder if the idea of Hell as the absence of God was concocted by Christians who had doubts they were righteous enough to avoid a Hell of fire and brimstone. So they invent a Hell that would be pretty much like their lives during a normal Monday through Friday week day. :grin:
just like any work of fiction, it gets re-imagined over time and reinterpreted, just like the bible ^^
What, exactly, hell is like depends upon what flavor of religion you favor. Each one differs--and each denomination within each one differs. Supplied by the Ontario Consultants On Religious Tolerance site (this is an excellent site for reading or research--they strive to give each view on a religious topic a voice--and an accurate voice) is a review of the most prominent xian views of hell:
Specific beliefs about Hell:
Most conservative Protestants believe that the descriptions of the afterlife throughout the Bible are consistent. They believe that every person has eternal life; their soul is immortal. After their death and judgment, most believe that only those who have repented of their sins and have trusted Jesus as their personal Lord and Savior will be saved and attain heaven. (Some religious conservatives do not include the requirement for repentance, because it is a personal activity, and they believe that no human work is required for salvation.) Most of the world's population, the unsaved, are believed to spend eternity in Hell, including those who:
bullet Have heard the Gospel, and have rejected it.
bullet Have never had the opportunity to be saved because they have never been presented with the Gospel.
But Fundamentalist and other Evangelical Protestants disagree on the precise nature of Hell. There is a general consensus on beliefs about Hell within most conservative Christian denominations. However, there is great diversity among faith groups.
The Bible appears to be ambiguous on the topic of Hell, as with so many other important Christian beliefs. A fascinating book, "Four views on Hell," edited by William Crockett, features himself and three other Evangelical systematic theologians debating their conflicting personal beliefs about Hell. 1 Each of the four contributors passionately believes that their own interpretation of Hell is accurately derived from the Biblical text.
Beliefs covered in the book are:
--- Literal or orthodox view: ("Orthodox" means traditional or historical belief in this context, not the beliefs of the Eastern Orthodox churches.)
--- This has been the historical teaching of the Christian Church.
--- Hell is a place of punishment that lasts forever. "There is not a single passage in the Bible that ever states that the punishments of hell are temporarily or will be terminated." 1, Page 80
--- The descriptions of the horrors of Hell that are found in the Gospel of Matthew and in the rest of the Bible are literally true. Everlasting and terrible levels of torture are required by "a righteous God who demands absolute justice of the wicked." 1, Page 12
--- Some inmates of Hell would be punished more severely than others, depending on the seriousness of their crimes. This is implied in Mark 12:40 and Luke 12:47-48.
--- Punishment is physical, mental, and emotional. Hell is described in the Bible as a very dark place. Its inmates will realize that there will be no relief from their endless punishment. These factors would add greatly to their suffering.
---Metaphorical view:
--- This view has only been promoted since the 16th century.
--- Hell is a place where the unsaved will spend eternity.
--- The extreme pain and environmental conditions described in the Bible are not to be interpreted literally. The biblical descriptions of heat, bondage, darkness, thirst, worms, pain, flogging, fire, etc. are symbolic -- perhaps symbolizing the emotional pain of being separated from God.
--- Two characteristics of Hell that are mentioned throughout the Christian Scriptures are fire and darkness. Interpreted literally, these factors conflict. It is necessary to interpret at least one of them symbolically; perhaps the other characteristics of Hell should also be interpreted symbolically. As Billy Graham stated: "I have often wondered if Hell is a terrible burning within our hearts for God, to fellowship with God, a fire that we can never quench." 2
--- Purgatorial view:
--- This is a belief taught by the Roman Catholic church.
--- Everyone, at death, is immediately judged. Those who have committed one or more mortal sins that have not been repented and erased through church sacraments will go directly to Hell. A very few who have lived unusually spiritual lives will go directly to Heaven. The rest will go to Purgatory which many Roman Catholics believe is a place of punishment -- a type of temporary Hell.
--- After a period of punishment, which may extend over many centuries or millennia, each inmate will become sufficiently purified. They will then be accepted into Heaven.
--- Purgatory was originally interpreted in symbolic terms. It later became viewed as an actual location; a form of Hell. More recently, the church has returned to a more symbolic interpretation. In 1999, Pope John Paul II described a concept of Purgatory which is at variance with the popular view. He stated that Purgatory "does not indicate a place but a condition of life..." 3
---Alternative beliefs not covered in the book: These many views have been proposed by a minority of conservative Protestants who cannot harmonize "the doctrines of everlasting punishment" with "a God of love and grace." As C.H. Pinnock, an Evangelical writes: "Everlasting torture is intolerable from a moral point of view because it pictures God acting like a bloodthirsty monster who maintains an everlasting Auschwitz for his enemies whom he does not even allow to die. How can one love a God like that? I suppose one might be afraid of him, but could we love and respect him? Would we want to strive to be like him in his mercilessness?" 1
Some alternative views of Hell are:
--- No Hell: The unsaved simply cease to exist at death. This belief is held by a few Evangelical Christians who believe that unsaved persons will not be punished in Hell. Some support for this concept can be found in the writings of Paul. e.g. Romans 6:23 "For the wages of sin is death..." (KJV)
---Hell is not really that bad: C.S. Lewis, in his book "The Great Divorce" pictures Hell as a rather drab, inconvenient, almost pleasant place, whose inmates can take a day-trip to the outskirts of Heaven. 4This concept avoids the picture of God as a sadistic torturer. However, Lewis' Hell is totally at variance with countless biblical passages.
---Annihilation (a.k.a. Conditional immortality & Conditionalism): The unsaved are punished in Hell for an finite interval. The duration of one's sentence is determined by the seriousness and frequency of one's sins while on earth. The individual then experiences the "second death" and cease to exist at all in any form. Supporters of this belief must necessarily abandon the concept of an immortal soul. Some creative interpretations of some biblical passages are needed to fit the annihilation theory:
---Mark 9:48, which refers to the worms that do not die and the fire that never ends, could refer to the annihilation process itself, in which the bodies of the inmates of Hell are totally destroyed after their second death.
---Matthew 25:46 mentions eternal punishment; but this could refer simply to annihilation itself being permanent, and ending all life and consciousness for eternity.
--- Revelation 14:9-11 describes the "smoke of their torment" rising forever. But that does not necessarily mean that their torment lasts forever; only the smoke does.
More details on Conditionalism
--- Universalism: Origen (182 - 251 CE) taught that the unsaved are tortured in Hell temporarily, with a series of graded punishments, until they are sufficiently cleansed to be accepted into Heaven. This is the historical Universalist belief. It was condemned as a heresy. It formed a major part of the beliefs of the Universalist church (now merged into the Unitarian Universalist Association). Everyone is eventually saved and is welcomed into heaven.
These views are mutually exclusive. Only one, at most, can be true. There appears to be no obvious way in which the truth can be determined. Referring to Bible is not particularly useful, because intelligent, devout, thoughtful, careful theologians have attempted this, and have produced diverse beliefs. Zondervan, the publisher of "Four views on Hell," has also released a series of other books in which leading Evangelical theologians debate their beliefs about evolution/creation, the millennium, the rapture, book of Revelation, salvation, etc. In each case, there is no consensus on these important topics. Determining the will of God through prayer may not be particular effective either. If there were any way to determine the truth of Hell, Christians would have reached a consensus centuries ago. There would not be so many diverse opinions in existence today.
Hell is very very wet! Introducing a creature from its hellish depths
(http://australianmuseum.net.au/Uploads/Images/2166/Iatlantichd_big.jpg)
Image Source (http://australianmuseum.net.au/Black-Dragonfish-Idiacanthus-atlanticus-Brauer-1906)
Of course, hell is always created by The Loving God.
Hell is the news.. Family of six is killed and they're ALWAYS that family you want as neighbors. They never kill those fucking assholes down the street with people being interviewed saying, "Well it's about time someone got rid of those shitheads! They left trash in the yard, the kids were just horrible and stole everything and that fat, dumpy mom.. JESUS FUCKING CHRIST what a pig!"
I'd tune in to see that interview.. :super: