I'm agnostic, and I'm having a hard time understanding atheists. From what I've recently read on a couple of internet sites it's possibly the belief in no god or spiritual being whatsoever. It was pretty unclear as it explained atheism has a broad definition. The problem lies that I live in a college town, and there is kids promoting atheism in their Logic and Einstein Tee's on the streets recently. I've had the pleasure of talking to them, and am having a hard time understanding their logic.
From what was explained to me is that atheism is the belief that there is for a fact no god, and the universe was created out of thin air. Now being a physicist the problem isn't the statement other than being related as fact rather than theory or opinion. Personally I see the god argument as what came first the chicken or the egg? Most likely the universe was either created from virtual particles, or something was created from virtual particles and created the universe. Either way, particles somehow manifested out of no where and is what we have today. You don't have to agree with it... It's just my opinion.
Anyway, my point being is it looks pretty retarded when you're wearing a logic and lol Einstein(He was Agnostic btw...) Tee shirt, and telling people that you can prove for a fact there is no god, but can't produce results through experiment. Also they have only a general idea of physics, so I can't really relate on their level. Are these kids wrong, or is that the general belief of atheism?
There is also a couple of christian groups that like to spew their nonsense, and be a complete buzz kill in front of the bars on Friday nights. I'll take 30 minutes out of my day to destroy every argument they deliver from time to time... I just don't want people to think I'm one sided... I'm an @sshole all around! :D
Good Day!
As a rule, athiests aren't organized and there is no bible or doctrine that they follow. Therefore if you ask ten athiests to define what it means to be athiest, you will end up with ten different answers. Most will tell you that the only thing they are sure of is that they have yet to find any conclusive verifiable evidence that any god or gods exist. But others will tell you that they are 100% sure there is no god. And I'm sure there are others who will tell you something completely different.
Figured that, and thank you for the clarification. That's a problem, and is why I can't take atheism seriously...
Atheism just means you don't acknowledge a god. Most agnostics are atheists, and most atheists are agnostics.
Whether or not you claim to know that there is or is not a god is an entirely different issue. I fall into that camp, and I can give you my full argument on it if you're interested.
Quote from: Gankfest on July 04, 2014, 08:20:26 PM
Figured that, and thank you for the clarification. That's a problem, and is why I can't take atheism seriously...
Why's that a problem? Is atheism something a person needs to take seriously?
Atheism is a logical conclusion we came to after examining other choices and seeing them as flawed. Many of us here are former members of religions, including me.
Quote from: Gankfest on July 04, 2014, 08:20:26 PM
That's a problem, and is why I can't take atheism seriously...
You can't take it seriously? What? Like its funny? Like a clown? So now I amuse you?
If you don't want to take it seriously, then don't take it seriously. Your loss, not mine.
I don't believe there to be a god..end of my argument and don't much care about anyone elses definition. I'm an atheist and nobody can disprove that which is good enough to suit me.
Quote from: Gankfest on July 04, 2014, 07:19:29 PM
I'm agnostic, and I'm having a hard time understanding atheists. From what I've recently read on a couple of internet sites it's possibly the belief in no god or spiritual being whatsoever.
Generally speaking (as in, the most common form of) atheism is the absence of religious belief, not an opposite belief. A theist has religious belief, an atheist does not. Gnostic atheism where one is sure of the position that there is no God could be qualified as a belief, but it's only a belief in the same way that being sure the tooth fairy does not exist is a belief. Proving non-existence of anything is impossible, and I've never met an atheist who claimed such an illogical thing, though clearly some will exist. It's technically possible to be an illogical atheist as much as it's possible to be an illogical scientologist I suppose.
QuoteFrom what was explained to me is that atheism is the belief that there is for a fact no god, and the universe was created out of thin air.
Atheism itself does not stand for any position on how the universe came into existence, other than that there is really no evidence of any kind to credit a god with it.
Perhaps you ran into some idiots who happened to be loudmouth atheists for no other reason than that it's contrarian. Either way this description fits very very few atheists.
Atheism is also 'trendy' now so it's popular to some to say they're atheist, but many people who follow trendy shit will turn on a dime. I expect a good number will claim to be 'saved' and give the same BS 'testimonials' sometime of how jebus rescued their hearts from the satanic clutches of atheism and how they were never happy blowing mommy and daddy's money, partying every night and murdering children in between making porn flicks and shooting heroin.
The belief in gods are what should be clarified as "beliefs". There is mountains of circumstantial evidence that reject gods that far outweighs any religious tenets. The problem is they are not interested in the embarrassment of finding out they were fooled.
People seek out "ultimate truths"; have done so from early civilization. One of my favorite book titles is The Sheep Look Up
By John Brunner. If you know sheep, you would understand.
The problem for theists/agnostics is that they try to impose a belief system on everything. Atheism is not a belief system. It is a starting point. If you spent time here you would discover that we have no dogma, only common agreement on subjects like science, morality, human behavior and so on. There is also a lot of disagreement here. We have vegetarians, Wiccans, gun possessers, gun haters, liberal/social democrats, libertarians, and so on.
Think of it this way; christianity-or some forms of it- teach that masturbation, homosexuality, drinking (Mormon) taking the lord's name in vain, sex outside of marriage, etc. are all bad/evil/sinful or whatever. But scientifically there is nothing wrong with masturbation per se, homosexuality is not deviant but normal and found in nature, men and women tend to be sexual in nature, and so on.
Religions teach one set of standards that doesn't jibe with the real physiology of man. So what kind of god insists on behavior that is not really natural? One created during a long ago historic period when those impositions were normal, and the whole truth not known. An antiquated belief system.
Which would you rather believe, a scientifically/physiologically valid set of truths or an imposed and now invalid one?
Quote from: Gankfest on July 04, 2014, 07:19:29 PM
I'm agnostic, and I'm having a hard time understanding atheists. From what I've recently read on a couple of internet sites it's possibly the belief in no god or spiritual being whatsoever.
Well, what's a god or "spiritual being?"
Atheist don't say that there 100% definitely is no God. They say there almost certainly is no god. Hence "agnostic-atheism".
There are several things that you cannot know for sure such as
whether or not you're real
whether or not you're in the matrix
whether or not you're in some kind of simulation in which you are real but the entire universe is not
whether or not you perceive color the same way as everyone else
whether or not I have an invisible flying T-Rex named steve
And whether or not there is a god.
These are called un-falsifiable hypothesis which as the label suggest that there really is not absolute definitive way to prove any of them wrong. What we do know however is that if there is a God, he/she/it is not Allah, Yahweh, Jehova, Thor, Oden, Zeus, Etc... Because the theoretical god does not give a shit what we do as humans, otherwise he/she/it would not allow us to do things it doesn't want us to do. We also know that whether or not there is a God doesn't matter much because all God would have done is caused the Big Bang and then left our universe alone forever (can you say dead beat dad?)
Atheism and agnostocism answer two different questions altogether:
-atheism is about whether or not one believes god or gods exist
-agnosticism is whether or not you think we can know a god exist
One is a question of knowledge, the other of belief.
An atheist is within reason to say "your god does not exist" if the proposed god is a logical absurdity devoid of evidence.
If being a "confident" atheist, known as positive atheist (no gods exist), then perhaps you might be more comfortable with being a weak/negative atheist.
What makes you label yourself agnostic? Because you acknowledge a god could exist? So do atheists.
As an agnostic-atheist i can affirm what Stromboli said, a lot of us were former members of faith that ventilation used logic to end our religious affiliations. I myself gave up my religious a while back, but am still going through the phase where my family think I'm saying just to be cool
I buy shirts and go to conventions to be cool, I don't pretend to not believe in god to be cool
I don't believe in god because 1 it doesn't make sense, and 2 god is a dick man
Here's a chart of theist to atheist.
(http://www.skepticink.com/incredulous/files/2013/08/nb2mO.jpg)
This is the appropriate categories for theist to agnostics to atheists.
Quote from: Gankfest on July 04, 2014, 07:19:29 PM
atheism is the belief that there is for a fact no god, and the universe was created out of thin air. Now being a physicist
that you being a "physicist" and not knowing that an atheist would never say the universe was "created" leads me to wonder what country is your education from? If you say the US then it is understandable.
Quote from: Gankfest on July 04, 2014, 08:20:26 PM
Figured that, and thank you for the clarification. That's a problem, and is why I can't take atheism seriously...
The fact that there are many different definitions of atheists means that not all atheists believe(or don't believe) in exactly the same thing. I am an atheist, and I think the correct definition of atheism is the "the nonbelief in a God or creator of the universe because of the lack of evidence for it". This is similar to the nonbelief of anything that doesn't have enough evidence for it to be reasonable to be believed. However, some atheists say because of the lack of evidence of God, it is impossible for there to be a God. Some atheists, just like some theists, have a 100% conviction in their belief or disbelief.
Gnostic Atheism: Belief there is no God
Agnostic Atheism: No Belief in a God
I don't see why diversity of a group of people is a good reason for not taking that group seriously. The reason I don't take any religion seriously is because there is no evidence for it and the traditions it has is deplorable to me. It's not because there are thousands of different denominations of the Christian religion.
I am an agnostic atheist. I don't claim to know the answer, but based on what I see I don't think there is a God. I also don't think there are leprechauns, unicorns, or fairies, but then again I have seen very little of the world. In that sense I am agnostic about most unknown things. If credible evidence came about of any of these I would have to change my views, but none has come about yet.
If you identify as an agnostic, but not an agnostic theist, then I hate to break it to you but you my friend are an atheist.
As previously stated, unless you claim to know something, then by definition you are agnostic. More often than not it's the religious folks that are claiming to be gnostic.
Saying "I don't know if I believe in god" is a nonsensical statement, and once removed of its shortcomings it becomes consistent with "I don't believe in god." You know if you believe in something. As a child I believed in Santa, and I "knew" he existed. I had no choice in the matter; my parents told me therefor that was my worldview. Of course once I came to the realization he was made up I had no choice but to not believe. I could never force myself to believe in Santa again.
So if you're not sure if you believe in god, then you do not actively believe. If you do not actively believe in god, you are an atheist.
It's just a word, don't shy away from it based on negative connotations given by the religious majority. I've yet to meet any atheists who eat babies, but be sure to keep your eyes open.