No shocker here, but the flood gates are open to allow companies to descriminate against anyone who doesn't buy their bullshit and I know.. You'll say it's narrow in focus, but does anyone realistically believe they're going to stop with providing contraception coverage because of their 'religious beliefs'?
I thought the exact same thing when I saw that they had won, its a major step in the wrong direction if you ask me
I have a feeling that employer provided health insurance won't be around much longer anyway.
Quote from: SGOS on June 30, 2014, 12:37:08 PM
I have a feeling that employer provided health insurance won't be around much longer anyway.
As long as we have conservative people in congress we won't have single payer. Single payer would be great, but I don't see it happening in my lifetime.
Ugh. This is just more inequality, and widens the gap further. Those with the money (the "job creators") get whatever they want by waving that damn title they have given themselves under everyone's noses. For profit organizations are now going to get to base what they do on THEIR religions, completely ignoring the religions (or lack-of) of those whom they employ.
Fuck Hobby Lobby. I knew they were trying this, but wasn't keeping up on it. I mentioned last time I was here (when they were threateing to close all their stores over this) that they would do no such thing. They were building a new store in my town at the same time they were threatening to shut down and fire 13,000 people if they didn't get their way. It's done now. I actually stopped in last week to see what the store looks like, as I had never been into one. It is loaded with religious decorative garbage. Most of it is gift shop junk. They have a very small portion actually dedicated to any sort of crafting, and most of that section is fake flowers. Gah, I'll keep going to Jo-anns. I won't set foot in a Hobby Lobby ever, especially after this ruling. But I'm sure the sheeple will keep going there to buy their "Footprints in the Sand" wall hangings....gag.
It is not how I had wanted the ruling to go but it is how I'd expected it to go
To those delusional enough to think religion is dying off SCOTUS disagrees. I'm convinced that sooner or later this country will institutionalize blasphemy laws to make criminals out of us all. I hope I'm dead before then, but I can see it coming.
http://www.salon.com/2014/06/30/there_was_nothing_limited_about_scotus_hobby_lobby_ruling_why_it_matters_for_everyone/
QuoteThis is certainly bad news for the women who work at both of these places, but it’s bad news for the rest of us, too. The ruling sends a strong message that women’s health and women’s rights â€" as individuals and employees â€" do not matter as much as so-called religious liberty. It also shows once again that medically inaccurate ideas about healthcare can dictate the terms of a debate and ultimately win the day. Writing for the majority, Justice Samuel Alito argued that contesting Hobby Lobby’s claim that contraception is the same thing as abortion â€" an idea that has been refuted time and again by medical providers and associations â€" “in effect tells the plaintiffs that their beliefs are flawed.â€
Aaannndddd........
QuoteTo sum it up, five male justices ruled that thousands of female employees should rightfully be subjected to the whims of their employers. That women can be denied a benefit that they already pay for and is guaranteed by federal law. That contraception is not essential healthcare. That corporations can pray. That the corporate veil can be manipulated to suit the needs of the corporation. That bosses can cynically choose à la carte what laws they want to comply with and which laws they do not. Each specific finding opens a door to a new form of discrimination and unprecedented corporate power. If you think this ruling won’t effect you, you haven’t been paying attention. If you think these corporations are going to stop at birth control, you’re kidding yourself.
They not only put religious liberty over the health of women, but also handed even more power to the Oligarchy.
Allow me to get on my little soap box here. Whenever someone tells me that there is no difference between republicans and democrats or something similar I always tell them to come back after the next time the SCOTUS hands down a 5-4 ruling or the next justice resigns.
Where the fuck is Jason telling us how the wondertarians would stand up for women and how they're just shuffling the deck chairs? I'm so sick of this bullshit, but unless we GOTV it'll get worse and worse. Don't buy the libertarian 3rd party crap because they suck the cock of the GOP at every chance.
Quote from: AllPurposeAtheist on June 30, 2014, 12:53:22 PM
As long as we have conservative people in congress we won't have single payer. Single payer would be great, but I don't see it happening in my lifetime.
I don't expect single payer for another 50 years, but I still think employer provided healthcare is on the way out. It's happening right now. It's been happening.
I have been reading a friends FB feed where some douchebags actually pine for the days when the government did not force employers to do anything. Like they prefer the idea of unpaid overtime, no minimum wage, child labor, unsafe work environments, etc. And of course this is all 9n the women. Why can't women just abstain? Why is it someone else responsibility to take care of your reproductive health? They are actually too fracking stupid to see that not offering this makes it nearly impossible for many woman to control their own reproductive health, that having it affordable would actually lead to more woman taking that control. But no, they see the whole world backwards and upside down. It is so frustrating, I now remember why I rarely ever check FB.
This is such a huge thing, it is one of the more important ruling to come out of the SCOTUS, probably second only to the DOMA act. It is not just about women! This ruling will have extreme far reaching consequences. I would say unintended, but I think the 6 men who voted for it probably desire those consequences.
I wonder, because of this ruling could I then force my female employees to take birth control because to not do so is against my atheism.....
Without regard to their religious or personal beliefs....
Must call the lawyer
Quote from: AllPurposeAtheist on June 30, 2014, 12:53:22 PM
As long as we have conservative people in congress we won't have single payer. Single payer would be great, but I don't see it happening in my lifetime.
There are other options besides employer sponsored and single payer. I think employers are waiting it out to see how the exchanges go. If they work out, a lot of them will start giving their employees cash to go get their own health insurance from an exchange.
Quote from: aileron on June 30, 2014, 10:54:55 PM
There are other options besides employer sponsored and single payer. I think employers are waiting it out to see how the exchanges go. If they work out, a lot of them will start giving their employees cash to go get their own health insurance from an exchange.
Where I worked, we never saw any extra pay. As insurance began to rise, we just got less coverage, and were required to pay the growing premiums out of our own pockets. So it seems to me that the employer healthcare is something that harkens to the past as an added benefit provided because its cost was inconsequential when the concept started. My guess is that companies are now eying insurance as burdensome requirement that could be eliminated.
Postponing the employer requirement was one of the first benefits of Obamacare to be take away, and it has traditionally been the source of healthcare that most working class people had. You can bet Washington is being lobbied hard by corporate funding to get rid of the insurance burden. I think it was probably included in the bill because politicians thought that employers would not object to something they had traditionally provided being mandated by law. This is no longer true as insurance costs have become astronomical, and out of reach for many. It's no longer some cheap give away that can be added to employee compensation without taking a big bite out of profit.
From what I can tell, we are entering a new era with a changing socioeconomic structure with much less middleclass prominence.
In related news:
http://www.atlbanana.com/supreme-court-upholds-little-caesars-right-to-feed-christian-employees-to-lions/
Supreme Court Upholds Little Caesar’s Right to Feed Christian Employees to Lions
WASHINGTON, DCâ€"The Supreme Court ruled on Monday that Roman-owned
pizza chain Little Caesar’s was within its rights to place Christian employees in an arena and then unleash starved, vicious lions and lionesses upon them. The court cited religious freedom as its guiding principle. The 5-to-4 ruling opened the door to potentially thousands of Christian Little Caesar employees nationwide being immediately fed to the top predators of the African savannah.
Little Caesar’s argued that the persecution of Christians and the feeding of them to ravenous big cats was a “deeply held†religious belief, that the continued survival of the roughly 6,000 Christian employees, as well as the fact that they remained on company payroll, imposed a “substantial financial burden†on their religious liberty.
The 5 conservative Justices agreed. Justice Samuel A. Alito Jr, the author of the majority opinion, wrote:
while it is debatable that some harm may come to any Christians fed to a lion or lioness, there is certainly demonstrable harm being done to these animals that are denied the tasty, nutrient-rich Christians that their diet requires
A Christian employee of the company, Ed Broyles, expressed dismay at the decision. “They’re gonna fuckin’ feed me to a motherfucking lion? But I only ever go to church on like Easter!â€, he said, shaking visibly and sweating. “Jesus H Christ on a cracker, I’ve got a fucking family!â€
Little Caesar owner and CEO, Little Caesar himself, applauded the ruling. When asked how soon his company would begin killing off its Christian employees he responded, “Carpe Diem.â€
Good one Bark.. :lol:
The backlash to this nonsense is coming. You have to know Democrats are going to hang this ruling around the necks of every republican between now and midterm and beyond. If they don't all hope will be lost. We'll become a fascist state lock, stock and barrel.
Need anymore proof that Hobby Lobby is run by misogynists? Here it is:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/06/30/hobby-lobby-viagra_n_5543916.html
Hobby Lobby CEO thinks women are not entitled to IUDs, but men can still get vasectomies and Viagra under their insurance.
Quote from: AllPurposeAtheist on June 30, 2014, 01:52:24 PM
To those delusional enough to think religion is dying off SCOTUS disagrees. I'm convinced that sooner or later this country will institutionalize blasphemy laws to make criminals out of us all. I hope I'm dead before then, but I can see it coming.
This may perhaps be the most blunt, truthful, and foretelling post ever written on this forum website.
Quote from: frosty on July 01, 2014, 03:46:01 PM
This may perhaps be the most blunt, truthful, and foretelling post ever written on this forum website.
and I hope we're both wrong and feel silly for even suggesting it someday.
Quote from: AllPurposeAtheist on July 01, 2014, 03:55:29 PM
and I hope we're both wrong and feel silly for even suggesting it someday.
What you just said is perfectly natural to think. I feel it sometimes, even these days. But the problem with humans is that they are like very strong freight trains; once they get going down the track, and pick up speed and power, it's going to be quite hard to stop them. Unless you use the different mechanisms in place to stop it, in this case that would be a metaphor for critical thinking and logic. Nobody wants to use those mechanisms.
They need to change their acronym to something that doesn't look like SCROTUM.
Quote from: ApostateLois on July 01, 2014, 04:01:52 PM
They need to change their acronym to something that doesn't look like SCROTUM.
Change it to SCROTUM.. DRIPPYSCROTUM. It is more fitting.
I found it surprising because it is such an egregious diss to women and opens a HUGELY bad precedent.
I am not happy. At all.
NPR spend some time on the issue yesterday. Partly, the court decided it was OK to refuse to offer birth control as a corporation, because the government will allow women birth control health coverage under a separate option. How much red tape this entails was not addressed. Whether this opens a Pandora's box to other aspects of freedom of religion at a corporate level is a concern, but the "unforeseeables" are not yet known. Clearly, this is seen as a win for Christianity by some people, which seems dangerous because if it is, it most certainly could not interpreted as a win for freedom of religion. Who would have a clue if this played a part in the decision of the court. God help us all. :biggrin:
The whole case was bullshit to begin with. Something I saw in an article linked on reddit yesterday said that the insurance Hobby Lobby had used for years always covered the contraception options in question. It was only when Obamacare was implemented that they dropped them in 2012. Contraception, religion, abortion, it was all a lie. This was nothing more than yet another right wing political attack against the ACA, and they had no problem shitting on their female employees to do it. The conservative wing of SCOTUS went right along for the ride.
ETA: The link (http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2014/04/hobby-lobby-retirement-plan-invested-emergency-contraception-and-abortion-drug-makers). I don't fault the retirement plan stuff as much as the article does. Mutual plans have all kinds of different companies in them, although it's just an added layer to their hypocracy.
Quote from: BarkAtTheMoon on July 02, 2014, 10:47:17 AM
The whole case was bullshit to begin with. Something I saw in an article linked on reddit yesterday said that the insurance Hobby Lobby had used for years always covered the contraception options in question. It was only when Obamacare was implemented that they dropped them in 2012. Contraception, religion, abortion, it was all a lie. This was nothing more than yet another right wing political attack against the ACA, and they had no problem shitting on their female employees to do it. The conservative wing of SCOTUS went right along for the ride.
ETA: The link (http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2014/04/hobby-lobby-retirement-plan-invested-emergency-contraception-and-abortion-drug-makers). I don't fault the retirement plan stuff as much as the article does. Mutual plans have all kinds of different companies in them, although it's just an added layer to their hypocracy.
I think you're right. NPR mentioned the politics involved very briefly. In fact, Hobby Lobby was originally reluctant to take it to court. They were recruited by some "Organization for the Freedom of Something Other", which sounded more like a political group than a religious one. Not to say Hobby Lobby isn't pleased. In fact, they are actively involved in getting out their fundamentalist message. And of course, the government will pick up part of the insurance costs that cover their employees contraception. If I remember, NPR called the suit a reaction to an administration policy.
In that regard is more of a political statement, but future ramifications are yet to be known.
It opens the door for all types of religiosity based fuckery and the court fucked up big time because they didn't and couldn't declare it only for one sect of one religion because our constitution forbids favoring one over the other so that if you're a corporate entity owned by strict extremist Muslims of whatever branch and your browser particular Koran verse says you get to fuck over non Muslims the precidedent is set now or even if you attend the wrong xtian church the corporation can declare you to be a heretic and fire your ass. You're gonna see all kinds of known unknown fuckery out of this bullshit. This court's majority ought to be disbarred for malfeasance at minimum.
Edit:my religious belief forbids editing for auto complete fuckups. I'm suing.
Let's remember that most of the products Hobby Lobby sells are from China, where forced abortions are common as part of their efforts to curb the population. Women are merely objects to be monitored and controlled, their babies nothing more than numbers to be culled when there are too many of them, like animals in a park. Hobby Lobby supports this with every order that they place to restock the shelves, and then have the audacity to claim that they cannot support abortion! It is a good thing that hypocrisy is not a sin, or else most Christians would never stand a chance of going to heaven.
The BC methods they blocked are not even abortifacients in the first place. That is basic biology. Preventing pregnancy is not the same as terminating pregnancy. If implantation doesn't happen, it's not pregnancy. But that's beside the point.
Now, employers have the legal power to restrict access to women's healthcare based on their religious beliefs; they have the power to enforce these religious beliefs on other people in a very real way. That is fundamentally very fucked up.
That is not acceptable.
Mermaid, you better not need whole blood or a vaccination. You'll probably be required to wear a headscarf to and from work and don't forget you'll be required to produce more babies for your man even if you're incapable in which case you'll be terminated for not following church doctrine.