Hello all,
Over the years I have been on a few theist/atheist discussion boards. For the most part I enjoy the back and forth. I am a philosophical theist meaning in short, I believe our existence was intentionally caused by a personal agent commonly referred to as God. I'm not a religious person, I'm not involved in organized any religion. I exercise my philosophical beliefs in my own way.
Not only do I subscribe to theism, I am skeptical of atheism, the belief we owe our existence and the existence of the universe to some non-god cause.
Welcome. We got a live one here. :popcorn:
Quote from: DrewM on June 27, 2014, 07:33:58 PMI believe our existence was intentionally caused by a personal agent commonly referred to as God.
Prove it or fuck off.
He's not a religious person, but if it wasnt for God he wouldnt be here. eh?
Im not an alcoholic, but if it wasnt for the pub i wouldnt be a drunk....... :pidu: :jook: :wall:
QuoteWelcome. We got a live one here.
Thank you Stromboli
I believe our existence was intentionally caused by a personal agent commonly referred to as God.QuoteProve it or fuck off.
Hello Moralnihilist
You make me feel welcome...
I can make a cogent case in favor of my belief...but it is a belief I don't claim its a fact. Is it fair to say you believe no God was necessary to account for our existence and can you make a case in favor of that claim?
lot of theists and whatnot recently eh?
So make your case and don't beat around the bush.
Quote from: DrewM on June 27, 2014, 08:26:02 PM
Thank you Stromboli
I believe our existence was intentionally caused by a personal agent commonly referred to as God.
Hello Moralnihilist
You make me feel welcome...
I can make a cogent case in favor of my belief...but it is a belief I don't claim its a fact. Is it fair to say you believe no God was necessary to account for our existence and can you make a case in favor of that claim?
So you are saying it is a belief. Wow, thats new. We heard that one before. If you can't prove your deity exists, why are you here? We don't care about your belief, seriously. go somewhere that might be interested, we're not. Go read through Claypot's intro thread and see the kind of malarkey we have already dealt with. You are not bringing anything new here. Go somewhere else.
Quote from: stromboli on June 27, 2014, 08:43:56 PM
So make your case and don't beat around the bush.
Alright but I'll put the first post in the Religion General Discussion forum...if I can.
Stromboli,
QuoteSo you are saying it is a belief. Wow, thats new. We heard that one before. If you can't prove your deity exists, why are you here? We don't care about your belief, seriously. go somewhere that might be interested, we're not. Go read through Claypot's intro thread and see the kind of malarkey we have already dealt with. You are not bringing anything new here. Go somewhere else.
I don't know of anyone who claims its a 'fact' God exists, I know of few atheists who claim its a fact God doesn't exist. Do you know God doesn't exist or do you believe God doesn't exist? I can make a case from evidence in favor of my belief...can you?
Quote from: DrewM on June 27, 2014, 09:19:41 PM
Stromboli,
I don't know of anyone who claims its a 'fact' God exists, I know of few atheists who claim its a fact God doesn't exist. Do you know God doesn't exist or do you believe God doesn't exist? I can make a case from evidence in favor of my belief...can you?
You must not know very many theists. I know I'm not Stromboli, but allow me to say this for the umpteenth time: atheists don't believe god(s) don't exist, they simply don't believe god(s) do exist. If you want to pick up the burden of proof, then go for it; don't try to foist it off onto us.
Quote from: DrewM on June 27, 2014, 09:19:41 PM
I can make a case from evidence in favor of my belief...can you?
oh my.......a.....I can prove it ist.. :popcorn:
Hello Algae,
QuoteYou must not know very many theists. I know I'm not Stromboli, but allow me to say this for the umpteenth time: atheists don't believe god(s) don't exist, they simply don't believe god(s) do exist. If you want to pick up the burden of proof, then go for it; don't try to foist it off onto us.
It wouldn't matter how many theists I'm acquainted with, even if they claim to 'know' God exists there stating an opinion. An opinion doesn't become a fact no matter how sincerely someone believes it.
I agree there are many so called 'weak atheists' who like yourself redefine atheism as a lack of belief, evidently because their disbelief in God is so weak, so tepid so meaningless they can't bring themselves to opine they don't believe God exists. If you as an atheist don't
disbelieve in the existence of God why should I disbelieve in God? The letter A in the word atheist means not or with out just like the letter A in asexual means not or without sex. If you drop the a in atheism then you're a weak theist...not a weak atheist.
So stop telling us what we are. We know what we are. You have evidence, present it. Stop piddling around and get to the point.
And there is nothing stopping you from posting in the general religion forum, so go ahead.
If I weren't on my phone I would drop my usual hundred paragraph argument right about now.
Sent from Monster Island. Titty sprinkles.
I'm getting a vibe that we have another Casparov.
Quote from: DrewM on June 27, 2014, 09:19:41 PM
Stromboli,
I don't know of anyone who claims its a 'fact' God exists, I know of few atheists who claim its a fact God doesn't exist. Do you know God doesn't exist or do you believe God doesn't exist? I can make a case from evidence in favor of my belief...can you?
Oh come on, this right here just screams troll. Like, full on. Doesn't know ANYONE who claims it is a fact God exists! Please, that is the stupidest, least factual, most obviously said just to get an emotional reaction out of us thing I have ever seen a theist post in these forums, and that is saying something. His next post is a damn close second, too. Seems to think he can out logic us, lol.
Present your evidence or gtfo. This is coming from one of the forums gentler members with most theists, so please, we are all waiting to hear your "case" with bated breath...lol
Probably another Deepak Chopra clone. Standby for guantum theory double slit experiment in 3....2....1....
FLAG ON THE PLAY: Inappropriate use double standards to support an argument. Ten yards. First down.
You can't say this:
Quote from: DrewM on June 27, 2014, 09:19:41 PM
I don't know of anyone who claims its a 'fact' God exists, I know of few atheists who claim its a fact God doesn't exist.
And then say this:
Quote from: DrewM on June 27, 2014, 10:46:43 PM
It wouldn't matter how many theists I'm acquainted with, even if they claim to 'know' God exists there stating an opinion.
So what you're saying is that when athiests say its a fact that god doesn't exist, they're wrong, but when theists say its a fact that god does exist, its right because they're only stating an opinion.
I think you need to open your eyes a bit there scheckie. There all kinds of statements and proclamations out there in the world from theists stating in no uncertain terms that god does in fact exist. Almost none of them contain the qualifier that the aforementioned statement of fact was in fact not a fact at all but rather only an opinion. OTOH I have quite often seen and/or heard athiests choose their words quite carefully so as to clarify that the only thing they are sure of is that they have seen insufficient evidence to prove the existence of god.
First post in the Religion general discussion forum. You can continue your whining, hand-wringing and moaning there.
Quote from: DrewM on June 27, 2014, 07:33:58 PM
Not only do I subscribe to theism, I am skeptical of atheism, the belief we owe our existence and the existence of the universe to some non-god cause.
Why does the universe need a cause? It doesn't care about causes, it can't, it's a universe.
He started with the first cause argument, so don't be looking for any smashing revelations from this guy. :naughty:
Hi Drew, and welcome.
Quote from: DrewM on June 27, 2014, 10:46:43 PM
Hello Algae,
It wouldn't matter how many theists I'm acquainted with, even if they claim to 'know' God exists there stating an opinion. An opinion doesn't become a fact no matter how sincerely someone believes it.
I agree there are many so called 'weak atheists' who like yourself redefine atheism as a lack of belief, evidently because their disbelief in God is so weak, so tepid so meaningless they can't bring themselves to opine they don't believe God exists. If you as an atheist don't disbelieve in the existence of God why should I disbelieve in God? The letter A in the word atheist means not or with out just like the letter A in asexual means not or without sex. If you drop the a in atheism then you're a weak theist...not a weak atheist.
Oh look, another condescending asshole theist telling us what atheism is; I retract my welcome.
Quote from: DrewM on June 27, 2014, 11:59:54 PM
First post in the Religion general discussion forum. You can continue your whining, hand-wringing and moaning there.
Look dipshit, this is an ATHEIST forum. If you think you can get away with that attitude, think again. Don't think you can come here redefining words and insulting us right from the start and get away with it. Drop your fucking attitude or you'll become a chew toy, at least until we'll get bored and then ban you. Oh, and go fuck yourself with a cactus; wrapped in barbwire; dipped in hot chili sauce.
Quote from: DrewM on June 27, 2014, 10:46:43 PM
I agree there are many so called 'weak atheists' who like yourself redefine atheism as a lack of belief, evidently because their disbelief in God is so weak, so tepid so meaningless they can't bring themselves to opine they don't believe God exists. If you as an atheist don't disbelieve in the existence of God why should I disbelieve in God? The letter A in the word atheist means not or with out just like the letter A in asexual means not or without sex. If you drop the a in atheism then you're a weak theist...not a weak atheist.
Hello Drew, welcome to our merry little band of heathens.
Sorry to break it to you, but all that 'atheism' means is a lack of belief in god. In that sence it's not 'redefining' something if you adhere to the original definition of the word.
And we are not asking you to 'disbelieve', or at least most of us aren't. We are asking you to be skeptical and not use fallacies and we implore others to look at the world from an unbiased position; without the unwarrented knowledge that there is or isn't a God. And if you can find some actual verifiable evidence from that position that there either is or isn't a God; we'd be more than happy to learn about it. If you can't, then we'd be justified in holding to the basis-position.
It's not about our 'disbelief' being to weak. It's about not claiming things without the necessary evidence. It's about having the humility to understand that our senses and personal experiences aren't the perfect grounds for defining the universe. It's about accepting that our knowledge and intellect are, though splended and wonderful, sadly limited. It's about understanding that making claims out of thin air have can have a negative and devastating influence on the process of the human race. And it's about knowing when to focus on the questions we can solve.
But anyway, welcome to AF.
Quote from: DrewM on June 27, 2014, 07:33:58 PM
I am skeptical of atheism,
You're skeptical of skepticism?
Fuck off.
(http://images.sodahead.com/polls/004064639/4649623449_atheist_chart_xlarge.jpeg)
Most of the atheists here fall in the agnostic atheist category about the possibility of god until you start getting more specific about the definition of god. As the definition starts moving from deism to theism we begin to move towards the gnostic category. Jewish zombies being no more believable than hammer swinging thunder gods or solar orbiting teacups and all.
Quote from: DrewM on June 27, 2014, 09:19:41 PM
Stromboli,
I don't know of anyone who claims its a 'fact' God exists,
What? Have you been living under a rock?
Quote from: DrewM on June 27, 2014, 11:59:54 PM
First post in the Religion general discussion forum. You can continue your whining, hand-wringing and moaning there.
Get bent.
Another fine example of you can't prove I'm wrong so I am right fallacy. Theist just don't get it, we don't believe in anything without reliable evidence. Atheists have knowledge to back up their beliefs, while theists have ignorance---so God did it, I know because I have faith in Scripture being the word of God. :wall: Solitary
Hello Mr Obvious,
QuoteSorry to break it to you, but all that 'atheism' means is a lack of belief in god. In that sence it's not 'redefining' something if you adhere to the original definition of the word.
We'll have to disagree on that point, ask the average person what atheist means and they will say a person who doesn't believe God exists. They don't claim its a fact God doesn't exist, in their opinion God doesn't exist.
Dictionary.com
a·the·ism
[ey-thee-iz-uhm] Show IPA
noun
1.
the doctrine or belief that there is no God.
2.
disbelief in the existence of a supreme being or beings.
Personally I think the lack of belief position weakens atheism to a non position. As a theist I don't deny God exists...but according to weak atheism, atheists don't deny God exists either. How can we debate existence of God, when neither one of us denies God exists?
QuoteAnd we are not asking you to 'disbelieve', or at least most of us aren't. We are asking you to be skeptical and not use fallacies and we implore others to look at the world from an unbiased position; without the unwarrented knowledge that there is or isn't a God. And if you can find some actual verifiable evidence from that position that there either is or isn't a God; we'd be more than happy to learn about it. If you can't, then we'd be justified in holding to the basis-position.
I'm making a case in favor of my belief in another thread.
QuoteIt's not about our 'disbelief' being to weak. It's about not claiming things without the necessary evidence. It's about having the humility to understand that our senses and personal experiences aren't the perfect grounds for defining the universe. It's about accepting that our knowledge and intellect are, though splended and wonderful, sadly limited. It's about understanding that making claims out of thin air have can have a negative and devastating influence on the process of the human race. And it's about knowing when to focus on the questions we can solve.
I agree the belief or disbelief in the existence of God is an opinion and I have acknowledged I could be wrong and it could turn out our existence and the universe was caused by mindless forces that didn't intend our existence.
Funny, my dictionary says something completely different:
a·the·ism
ˈÄTHÄ"ËŒizÉ™m/Submit
noun
disbelief or lack of belief in the existence of God or gods.
synonyms: nonbelief, disbelief, unbelief, irreligion, skepticism, doubt, agnosticism;
Quote from: DrewM on June 27, 2014, 09:19:41 PM
Stromboli,
I don't know of anyone who claims its a 'fact' God exists, I know of few atheists who claim its a fact God doesn't exist. Do you know God doesn't exist or do you believe God doesn't exist? I can make a case from evidence in favor of my belief...can you?
You keep capping "god" as "God". Christians feel they own that word, and sadly most others agree. Now, either you're claiming the spelling for yourself, or you're just one of those new-age hippies who believe Christianity isn't a religion, and Biblegod reigns over all.
From what little you've said...i'm thinking you're just another Christian.
-Nam
Quote from: DrewM on June 28, 2014, 11:14:24 AM
Hello Mr Obvious,
We'll have to disagree on that point, ask the average person what atheist means and they will say a person who doesn't believe God exists. They don't claim its a fact God doesn't exist, in their opinion God doesn't exist.
Dictionary.com
a·the·ism
[ey-thee-iz-uhm] Show IPA
noun
1.
the doctrine or belief that there is no God.
2.
disbelief in the existence of a supreme being or beings.
Personally I think the lack of belief position weakens atheism to a non position. As a theist I don't deny God exists...but according to weak atheism, atheists don't deny God exists either. How can we debate existence of God, when neither one of us denies God exists?
I'm making a case in favor of my belief in another thread.
I agree the belief or disbelief in the existence of God is an opinion and I have acknowledged I could be wrong and it could turn out our existence and the universe was caused by mindless forces that didn't intend our existence.
As the "average" is a fucking moron(as evidenced by you), frankly I could give two fucks what they think that the word means. The word literally comes from the prefix a- meaning without and then theism meaning the belief in god or gods.
In regards to what you think(again see my opinion of the average person[i.e. you]) regarding the position of weak atheists. Show me proof of your sky daddy and I will acknowledge its existence. Until you can provide one microgram of real fucking evidence I have no reason to believe that you are anything other than another lying sack of retarded monkeyshit.
So again I will state my new mantra regarding theists on this forum:
Provide proof or fuck off.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=toHlMD50eYY
Quote from: DrewM on June 28, 2014, 11:14:24 AM
Hello Mr Obvious,
We'll have to disagree on that point, ask the average person what atheist means and they will say a person who doesn't believe God exists. They don't claim its a fact God doesn't exist, in their opinion God doesn't exist.
Dictionary.com
a·the·ism
[ey-thee-iz-uhm] Show IPA
noun
1.
the doctrine or belief that there is no God.
2.
disbelief in the existence of a supreme being or beings.
Personally I think the lack of belief position weakens atheism to a non position. As a theist I don't deny God exists...but according to weak atheism, atheists don't deny God exists either. How can we debate existence of God, when neither one of us denies God exists?
I'm making a case in favor of my belief in another thread.
I agree the belief or disbelief in the existence of God is an opinion and I have acknowledged I could be wrong and it could turn out our existence and the universe was caused by mindless forces that didn't intend our existence.
See Hijri's dictionary-post regarding your misinterpretation of the 'atheïst position'.
I deny there is any evidence for a God's existence. I deny that there is any logical reason to believe in the existance of a Deity. I deny that a belief in a Deity is warranted and validated. At least, I have yet to come across anything to warrant this or validate this. This proves ample to discuss over if you think you can prove the existence of a Deity. But I've looked through your other thread and for reasons stated by our fellow AF-ers, I find your findings lacking to say the least.
In other words me not thinking it possible to prove there is no God does not stop us from being able to debate this point.
Just like you may think there is no Bigfoot, you will not claim that you can prove there is no bigfoot. Yet you do not (or should not) deny the far-off posibility of there being an unyet undiscovered ape or bear in those woods, no matter how unlikely. It's just not usefull to believe in it without actual evidence. And for all intend and purpose you can state you know there is no Bigfoot. But you can't honestly claim you can prove there is no Bigfoot. What you can honestly say is that the proof for the existance of Bigfoot is either fake, vague, useless, ... in short not proof at all. And because there is no proof you are justified in your lack of belief of Bigfoot, because there is nothing and no reason to believe in his existance. But you are not justified in saying you know and can prove that there is no Bigfoot.
We can discuss your God like how you or I would discuss that there is no reason to believe in Bigfoot with someone who does. You do not have to fullfill the part of someone who proves there is no God or no Bigfoot. You just have to point out why the evidence someone brings in favor of their existences fails.
Hope this clarifies your problem in understanding the atheïst position.
Quote from: Mr.Obvious on June 29, 2014, 12:56:07 PM
I deny there is any evidence for a God's existence.
That's because there is no evidence. Only a bunch of arrogant cunts who expect us to take their word for it.
If we were having a face to face conversation with this person, we would all be standing in a puddle of drool.
Way too much krap to read through. Welcome Drew. I'm not going to be a jerk or a bitch or anything of the nature but I'm afraid that you've come to the wrong forum to discuss a matter with the wrong people. If you're looking more into atheism there are plenty of resources available in which I am sure plenty of us could name for you.
Also, from what I have skimmed through..you believe atheism has a "belief system" If you will....No, atheism is lack of beliefs in a higher power or deity. We cannot prove this simply because we have yet to achieve the ability to travel faster than light so If there's a heaven and it does exist then someday we may be able to reach it but chances are...it's a lie that was made up a long long time ago for people to gain power. OR it could be because aliens visited the earth to teach us how to come together and learn new skills in order to advance the earth..or this or that...there's plenty of ideas and theories that people have come up with.
Anyways, many of us aren't going to welcome you here with open arms since you came on here trying to state that you're not religious yet you're skeptical of atheism.... What skepticism is it that you have? I'd looooove to have a discussion on this truly.
Quote from: TheGamingAtheist on July 06, 2014, 01:07:13 PM
Way too much krap to read through. Welcome Drew. I'm not going to be a jerk or a bitch or anything of the nature but I'm afraid that you've come to the wrong forum to discuss a matter with the wrong people. If you're looking more into atheism there are plenty of resources available in which I am sure plenty of us could name for you.
Also, from what I have skimmed through..you believe atheism has a "belief system" If you will....No, atheism is lack of beliefs in a higher power or deity. We cannot prove this simply because we have yet to achieve the ability to travel faster than light so If there's a heaven and it does exist then someday we may be able to reach it but chances are...it's a lie that was made up a long long time ago for people to gain power. OR it could be because aliens visited the earth to teach us how to come together and learn new skills in order to advance the earth..or this or that...there's plenty of ideas and theories that people have come up with.
Anyways, many of us aren't going to welcome you here with open arms since you came on here trying to state that you're not religious yet you're skeptical of atheism.... What skepticism is it that you have? I'd looooove to have a discussion on this truly.
Lol he's already banned. Don't worry. There will be more to come
Well shit lol I was excited for that debate dammit
Quote from: TheGamingAtheist on July 06, 2014, 01:16:06 PM
Well shit lol I was excited for that debate dammit
You can debate me. I'm an atheist Christian.
:wink:
-Nam
Quote from: TheGamingAtheist on July 06, 2014, 01:16:06 PM
Well shit lol I was excited for that debate dammit
Get out the wetstone and sharpen your teeth. I guarantee there will be more chewtoys haha
I don't know how to quote and shit on here. I'm such a forum noon today lol I'm using this tapatalk shit so If anyone knows how to use it, tell me! And atheist Christian...Oh hell What's this world coming to? Too many contradictions. You should be named starburst orrrr gusher lol
@EGGS, I've noticed there's a ton of them on these forums. Pathetic really. They don't realize that atheists look into shit and usually come from religious homes soooooo we kind of know what we are talking about. Lol
Quote from: TheGamingAtheist on July 06, 2014, 01:20:14 PM
@EGGS, I've noticed there's a ton of them on these forums. Pathetic really. They don't realize that atheists look into shit and usually come from religious homes soooooo we kind of know what we are talking about. Lol
Lol for a lack of a better phrase, you are preaching to the choir haha
(and to quote: if you are in Tapatalk, tap the thing you want to quote and it will bring up a quote option. If you're in the browser, you need to hit the reply button first. Otherwise you are just in quick reply, which is very streamlined.)
Sent from your mom
Quote from: PickelledEggs on July 06, 2014, 01:29:14 PM
Lol for a lack of a better phrase, you are preaching to the choir haha
(and to quote: if you are in Tapatalk, tap the thing you want to quote and it will bring up a quote option. If you're in the browser, you need to hit the reply button first. Otherwise you are just in quick reply, which is very streamlined.)
Sent from your mom
Hmm, like thiiiis???[emoji3]
Quote from: TheGamingAtheist on July 06, 2014, 01:31:41 PM
Hmm, like thiiiis???[emoji3]
lmao. yep :lol:
Sent from your mom
Quote from: PickelledEggs on July 06, 2014, 01:32:33 PM
lmao. yep :lol:
Sent from your mom
Boo yah! Lol my phones dying. Shooooot! I still have 8 hours of my shift left. Good thing I brought my charga!!! .I shall speak with you all later. [emoji4]