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http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/pope-francis-assures-atheists-you-dont-have-to-believe-in-god-to-go-to-heaven-8810062.html

Who cares?

-Nam

I care because I let two fat chicks on the bus ahead of me back when it was reported. You can't enter the kingdom without letting fat chicks on the bus first.

yep. Fat chick and church.....kinda obligatory like salt and .....er....peppahh..

So what's the point in being Catholic then? Is that like brownie points or something? Do atheists and people of other religions have to live in the ghetto of Heaven? If there is a ghetto of Heaven what's it even like?

QuoteJohn 3:36
Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life, but whoever rejects the Son will not see life, for God's wrath remains on him.


1 John 5:12
He who has the Son has life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have life.


Matthew 10:33
33 "But whoever denies Me before men, I will also deny him before My Father who is in heaven.


Luke 12:8
8 "And I say to you, everyone who confesses Me before men, the Son of Man will confess him also before the angels of God;


John 3:14-17
14 "As Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of Man be lifted up; 15 so that whoever believes will in Him have eternal life. 16 "For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life. 17 "For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world, but that the world might be saved through Him.


John 5:21-24
21 "For just as the Father raises the dead and gives them life, even so the Son also gives life to whom He wishes. 22 "For not even the Father judges anyone, but He has given all judgment to the Son, 23 so that all will honor the Son even as they honor the Father. He who does not honor the Son does not honor the Father who sent Him. 24 "Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.

John 8:12
12 Then Jesus again spoke to them, saying, "I am the Light of the world; he who follows Me will not walk in the darkness, but will have the Light of life.


John 17:1-3
1 Jesus spoke these things; and lifting up His eyes to heaven, He said, "Father, the hour has come; glorify Your Son, that the Son may glorify You, 2 even as You gave Him authority over all flesh, that to all whom You have given Him, He may give eternal life. 3 "This is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent.


Acts 4:12
12 "And there is salvation in no one else; for there is no other name under heaven that has been given among men by which we must be saved."

1 Corinthians 3:11
11 For no man can lay a foundation other than the one which is laid, which is Jesus Christ.


1 Timothy 2:5-6
5 For there is one God, and one mediator also between God and men, the man Christ Jesus, 6 who gave Himself as a ransom for all, the testimony given at the proper time.


1 John 4:1-3
1 Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world. 2 By this you know the Spirit of God: every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God; 3 and every spirit that does not confess Jesus is not from God; this is the spirit of the antichrist, of which you have heard that it is coming, and now it is already in the world.


1 John 5:10-12
The one who believes in the Son of God has the testimony in himself; the one who does not believe God has made Him a liar, because he has not believed in the testimony that God has given concerning His Son. And the testimony is this, that God has given us eternal life, and this life is in His Son. He who has the Son has the life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have the life.


if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. - Romans 10:9

Ok francis...

Quote from: christy starseeker on June 21, 2014, 09:29:55 AM
Ok francis...

The Bible is irrelevant.  He's the Pope.  He has spoken.

Pft, heaven.

Yeah. Why would we want to go to heaven. It's full of assholes.

That could be heaven if you are a gay man.  :eek: :rotflmao: Solitary

Quote from: the_antithesis on June 21, 2014, 11:17:00 AM
Yeah. Why would we want to go to heaven. It's full of assholes.

Considering the personal hygiene of most anti-gay straight men...no, not at all.

Be careful now. If this shit gets out of control the LDS will posthumously make us all saints..

Quote from: AllPurposeAtheist on June 21, 2014, 03:30:47 PM
Be careful now. If this shit gets out of control the LDS will posthumously make us all saints..

I'm already a saint, at least my imaginary friend tells me so.

-Nam

Glad to see this story from last year is still kicking around in atheism chat venues.

Quote“You ask me if the God of the Christians forgives those who don’t believe and who don’t seek the faith. I start by saying â€" and this is the fundamental thing â€" that God’s mercy has no limits if you go to him with a sincere and contrite heart. The issue for those who do not believe in God is to obey their conscience'

Where in this (translated) quote does it say you don't have to believe in God in order to........?

Quote“Sin, even for those who have no faith, exists when people disobey their conscience.”

If anything, this quote makes it clear that no one can really, honestly, be 'in denial' about the moral argument for Gods existence.

Francis is cleverly planting a thought bomb - putting a stone in the shoe - and prompting the atheist to question how it could be that objective good/evil can exist UNLESS there is a transcendent moral law.

Quote from: Lion IRC on June 21, 2014, 04:42:06 PM
how it could be that objective good/evil can exist UNLESS there is a transcendent moral law.

if there WAS a transcendent moral law, your god has neither shown it, nor any proclivity towards following one. Your god gave the world evil and practiced it and bragged about it. Your god is the most immoral of all gods man has invented.

Quote from: aitm on June 21, 2014, 04:49:23 PM
if there WAS a transcendent moral law, your god has neither shown it, nor any proclivity towards following one.

Yes He has.

Quote from: aitm on June 21, 2014, 04:49:23 PM...Your god gave the world evil and practiced it and bragged about it. 

No He didn't.

Quote from: aitm on June 21, 2014, 04:49:23 PM...Your god is the most immoral of all gods man has invented.

LOL. You are projecting. (Irony much?)

(http://i60.tinypic.com/2vtxxud.jpg)

Transcendent moral law speaks to that which is common to all cultures, i.e. transcendent. Murder, incest, thievery and so forth. Your god condoned slavery in the Old testament and made rape a property crime. There is nothing treanscendent about allowing a rapist to get off the hook by marrying his victim. And based on sheer numbers, is responsible for the death of more human beings than any other. Their crime? Disobedience and exercising the free agency not to worship your god.

Christians saying their religion is based on love is no different than Islam labeled the religion of peace. Same level of hypocrisy, different set of beliefs.

Quote from: Lion IRC on June 21, 2014, 06:07:08 PM
Yes He has.
No He didn't.
LOL. You are projecting. (Irony much?)

Denial isn't much of an argument mate ;)

Your "loving, benevolent god" killed 40,000 people just for LOOKING at the ark.

Your kind,caring God cursed the entire human race just because adam and eve ate a piece of fruit. this is made all the more egregious when you realize that adam and eve had no concept of good and evil and couldn't have possibly known this act was truly wrong until hey ate the fruit(and even then,it's implied they atleast felt pretty bad about it),yet god knowing this subjected every human being to horrific suffering and burden over the minor transgression of two beings. Your God is a sadistic asshole.

Who gives a shit what some character in a book did or did not do? The character doesn't exist.

After some analysis comparing the various gods of mythology to omnipotent characters in fiction, you will find there are no differences between the two.

I know that gods don't exist. It's surprisingly simple to sum up: Any being claiming to fit the human concept of a god can offer no proof that cannot equally be offered by this guy:


It sounds like overly simplistic logic, but this is only because the nature of mythological gods itself speaks to how simplistic human imagination tends to be. Even the broadest interpretation of a god separate from the universe, that of deism, only exists to say, "The universe exists, therefore no matter how complex it is God surely must be able to make it," which is really just expanding an already made-up term to encompass new discoveries, rather than just admit that the concept was flawed to begin with.

Then you have the pantheistic and panentheistic definitions, respectively stating that god is the universe and the universe is within god; both of which pretty much mean the same thing after any deep analysis, and both of which beg the question, "If God and the universe are indistinguishable, then why separate the terms at all?" Like deism, the answer is obvious: it's expanding an older term to fit new discoveries, rather than admitting that the concept was flawed from the get-go.

The human concept of a god gets even more ridiculous once you introduce the concept of higher dimensions. Rob Bryanton's Imagining the Tenth Dimension (http://https//www.youtube.com/watch?v=gg85IH3vghA), while by no means describing a currently accepted scientific theory, nevertheless illustrates just how ridiculously huge our universe is should any concept of higher dimensions prove to be accurate (especially given the size of the observable universe we are already well aware of). As the universe gets bigger and bigger, any concept of gods must expand accordingly, to ludicrous levels as this concept should demonstrate.

Even if the observable universe is all there is, if it is really designed then it seems to act like what we would expect of a simulator; and any being capable of designing it should more accurately be referred to as a programmer than a god. "Why can't we just call the programmer God?" you ask. For the same reason we wouldn't call it a leprechaun: fictional though it may be, it already exists as a concept and, for the sake of not invoking confusion and/or emotional validation for irrational beliefs, the term should not be continually expanded to include any and every version of the universe's hypothetical creator. If it is more like a programmer than a god, then that is what we should call it, and how we should regard it. Given all of this, I cannot think of any explanation abiding by Occam's Razor that would lead me to believe that a being conforming to the mythical concept of a god exists.

tl;dr version: There is no way anything we would regard as a god could ever prove that it is what it claims to a skeptical individual. Because the universe less resembles a mythical god's realm than it does a simulator, any designer we did find should be called a programmer, not a god. Therefore, we can reasonably conclude that there is no god.

I agree, "god" itself is ultimately a meaningless term when you really start to analyze it's meaning.

Quote from: christy starseeker on June 21, 2014, 11:32:05 PM
I agree, "god" itself is ultimately a meaningless term when you really start to analyze it's meaning.

LOL
I'm gonna treasure this little gem of atheist wisdom.

Quote from: Lion IRC on June 21, 2014, 11:41:31 PM
LOL
I'm gonna treasure this little gem of atheist wisdom.

Who ever said i'm an athiest? idiot =w=

Quote from: Lion IRC on June 21, 2014, 11:41:31 PM
LOL
I'm gonna treasure this little gem of atheist wisdom.

From Merriam-Webster:

QuoteGod : the perfect and all-powerful spirit or being that is worshipped especially by Christians, Jews, and Muslims as the one who created and rules the universe

: a spirit or being that has great power, strength, knowledge, etc., and that can affect nature and the lives of people : one of various spirits or beings worshipped in some religions

: a person and especially a man who is greatly loved or admired

This is the definition of god. The definition is quite vague as one can see....


You know what, Im simply to tired of dealing with religious idiots to put much effort into this. So Im just going to save a bunch of time and go to the end of the argument.

Until you can provide proof for your claims of god kindly fuck off and die.

the keyword being "die"

"They will kill you because their god tells them too"

Pretty much sums up religious folk for the past couple of millennia. And then there's the whole "god has to exist because the universe exists"

Yup. Solid logic that.

Humans created god as a means of expressing things tey didn't understand, like when lighting struck someone, he was obviously smited by the almighty for some sin.

It's just their way of attempting to explain things they can't grasp: GAWD DID IT,


On a personal note you do seem like the average internet user/troll so if you were attempting to sound unique you failed miserably

(https://fbcdn-sphotos-g-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xaf1/t1.0-9/10404528_302364849931754_6227074762304434259_n.jpg)

I think this sums it up perfectly.

Quote from: christy starseeker on June 21, 2014, 11:32:05 PM
I agree, "god" itself is ultimately a meaningless term when you really start to analyze it's meaning.

Yep

Quote from: Lion IRC on June 21, 2014, 11:41:31 PM
LOL
I'm gonna treasure this little gem of atheist wisdom.

As well as spouting bullshite and denying facts Lion is also a patronising fk....

(http://i61.tinypic.com/28j8g91.jpg)

Why doesn't this man, the pope, stick to tending to his flock and leave the rest of us alone?

Quote from: justme on June 22, 2014, 02:50:25 PM
Why doesn't this man, the pope, stick to tending to his flock and leave the rest of us alone?

Because that is the controlling nature of religion. Welcome.

True.  Thanks for the welcome.  I'm glad to be here.

QuoteYou know what, Im simply to tired of dealing with religious idiots to put much effort into this. So Im just going to save a bunch of time and go to the end of the argument.

I quit taking any of their bullshit even remotely serious a long time ago and quit the pretense of debate. There is no debate. Their ideas and beliefs are bullshit so I find absolutely no need nor desire to argue bullshit with bullshitters.

Quote from: AllPurposeAtheist on June 22, 2014, 05:13:41 PM
I quit taking any of their bullshit even remotely serious a long time ago and quit the pretense of debate. There is no debate. Their ideas and beliefs are bullshit so I find absolutely no need nor desire to argue bullshit with bullshitters.

I don't know...it's sometimes humorous to see them get all pissy when they have the realisation that they're not only losing the debate but that"we" are not being convinced of anything but their idiocy.

-Nam

Quote from: AllPurposeAtheist on June 21, 2014, 03:30:47 PM
Be careful now. If this shit gets out of control the LDS will posthumously make us all saints..

Shit, not those racist pricks!