http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jun/14/aircraft-carrier-iraq-isis-strike-persian-gulf
QuoteThe US is sending an aircraft carrier and two guided missile ships into the Persian Gulf, bolstering sea and airpower before a possible US strike on the jihadist army in Iraq in the coming days.
Defense secretary Chuck Hagel ordered the USS George HW Bush into the Gulf on Saturday, a day after President Barack Obama indicated he would soon decide on air strikes against the Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant (Isis), whose seizure of Sunni Iraqi cities has violently upended the region.
The 103,000-tonne warship and its air wing, which had been patrolling the North Arabian Sea and earlier this year were used in the Mediterranean following Russia's invasion of Ukraine, gives Obama airstrike options in addition to air force assets on land in bases used by the US, like Qatar's al-Udeid.
The Bush's air wing includes four squadrons flying F/A-18 Super Hornet fighter jets, one squadron flying EA-18 Growler jammer and electronic-attack planes, and other maritime helicopters and early-warning planes.
Rear Admiral John Kirby, the Pentagon press secretary, said the Bush would be accompanied by the guided-missile cruiser USS Philippine Sea and the guided-missile destroyer USS Truxton. The ships are expected to arrive in the Gulf this evening.
Kirby described the deployment as increasing Obama's martial flexibility "should military options be required to protect American lives, citizens and interests in Iraq", rather than signalling an imminent strike.
In a briefing on Friday, Kirby had played down the possibility of the Bush moving into the Gulf, saying only that it was ready for a potential tasking. "As we speak right now, there is no aircraft carrier zorching [speeding] into the Persian Gulf," he said.
While Iran has in the past harassed US ships moving into the Gulf, its president, Hassan Rouhani, on Saturday indicated openness to working alongside his country's decades-old adversary, signalling an alignment of interests in protecting their mutual Iraqi partner.
"If we see that the United States takes action against terrorist groups in Iraq, then one can think about it," Rouhani told reporters, according to Agence France Presse.
Iraqi officials told the Guardian on Saturday that Iran had sent 2,000 advance troops across the border to help the Shiite government of Iraq defend itself after the Iraqi army ran from Isis in Mosul this week. In a move unthinkable during the Saddam Hussein era, Iran has sent the commander of its feared Qods Force, General Qassem Suleimani, to coordinate the defense of Baghdad.
US intelligence and defense officials consider Suleimani to have American blood on his hands, as the Qods Force and the Revolutionary Guards Corps to which it belongs are suspected of attacks on US troops during the Iraq war, including the placement of sophisticated and deadly bombs.
Obama's contemplation of air strikes against Isis creates the prospect of US air power bolstering Iranian ground operations, an awkward one given the animosity the militaries of the two nations, which are currently engaged in negotiations over Iran's nuclear program, have long felt for each other.
The State Department did not immediately respond to queries about US and Iranian forces possibly fighting alongside one another by default in Iraq.
On Friday, Kirby urged Iran to "play a constructive role" in Iraq.
http://news.sky.com/story/1282087/iraq-iran-offers-to-work-with-arch-foe-us
QuoteIran's president has said he would consider working with the US to combat Islamist militants in Iraq, as he offered to help fight the insurgents.
President Hassan Rouhani suggested he would be willing to co-operate with Iran's traditional enemy to keep the Islamic State of Iraq and Syria (ISIS) from taking control of its Middle East neighbour.
In a televised address on Saturday morning Mr Rouhani said Iran would be willing to go to Iraq’s assistance and added: "We all should practically and verbally confront terrorist groups."
A refugee boy flees Iraq
A refugee boy fleeing his Iraqi home after militants took control
Asked if Tehran would work with the Americans, he said: "We can think about it if we see America start confronting the terrorist groups in Iraq or elsewhere."
The news came as US Defence Secretary Chuck Hagel ordered the aircraft carrier USS HW George Bush to the Persian Gulf to give the US added flexibility if military action is required.
Barack Obama
Barack Obama has ruled out troops on the ground
President Barack Obama has ruled out putting American troops on the ground in Iraq, but says the White House is considering all other options for support.
He said he would make a decision on the options "in the days ahead" amid reports the Pentagon is drafting plans for possible air strikes against the Islamist rebels.
"The United States will do our part, but ultimately it's up to the Iraqis as a sovereign nation to solve their problems," Mr Obama said. "We can't do it for them."
Hassan Rouhani
Hassan Rouhani has offered to help Iraq in a televised address
Iran has already sent a Major General from the Revolutionary Guard to Baghdad to meet leaders of the city.
Iran is predominately Shia and does not want to see a Sunni caliphate established on its borders by ISIS fighters, who are now thought to be fewer than 50 miles (80km) from Iraq's capital.
Foreign Secretary William Hague has ruled out sending UK troops, but said Britain may offer other support, such as counter-terrorism expertise, which could see the involvement of the SAS, as it did in Libya.
"Work is under way on that now and we will continue to liaise closely with our United States allies in particular on that," he said.
Volunteers waiting to join the Iraqi Army
Volunteers waiting to join the Iraqi army to fight ISIS
Britain is to provide £3m in emergency aid to help refugees fleeing the violence.
It comes as the governor of Mosul told Sky News he would welcome US support in ousting Islamist militants from Iraq, but does not want troops on the ground.
Speaking from Irbil in the Kurdish north after fleeing Mosul when it was taken by ISIS, Atheel al Nujaifi said the insurgents' attack on several Iraqi cities came as a complete surprise to Iraqi authorities.
We know from one minute to the next who our allies in the Mideast are. We supported Saddam's Iraq to fight against Iran. Now Iran wants to support us to fight to save Iraq. It's weird.
It appears that the only way to control Islam is by dictatorship.
We hate this solution to the special problem that a warrior religion like Islam poses but so far every other effort has failed miserably. Imposing democracy just has not worked and even when Islamic nations like Egypt turn on their current dictator and demand democracy, their first action is voting in an undemocratic Islamic state which is even worse than the dictator just replaced. Muslims WANT this and they show it with their votes. It's not just a few radicals, it's the majority.
We can't save people from themselves and we should not try.
The west has to deal with dictators in the Islamic world. They may be horrible, but they are the lesser of two evils.
Quote from: drunkenshoe on June 15, 2014, 08:19:46 AM
There are no allies, nothing for people. It's just power and resources and annihilating everything that stand in the road to the target. I don't think anything would be weird in that game. If there was some stability, now that would be weird.
Agreed, all about power and resources. Yeah, stability would be strange there.
The US plays the role of double agent in many ways and wars. Fighting against those they've previously supported. Like the 80's providing tanks and other weapons to Afghanistan to fight the Russians only to encounter these same weapons to be used against the US when we invaded Afghanistan. Weird.
Quote from: Berati on June 15, 2014, 10:13:09 AM
It appears that the only way to control Islam is by dictatorship.
We hate this solution to the special problem that a warrior religion like Islam poses but so far every other effort has failed miserably. Imposing democracy just has not worked and even when Islamic nations like Egypt turn on their current dictator and demand democracy, their first action is voting in an undemocratic Islamic state which is even worse than the dictator just replaced. Muslims WANT this and they show it with their votes. It's not just a few radicals, it's the majority.
We can't save people from themselves and we should not try.
The west has to deal with dictators in the Islamic world. They may be horrible, but they are the lesser of two evils.
Not to mention that forced democracy is, by definition, not democracy at all.
Quote from: Berati on June 15, 2014, 10:13:09 AM
It appears that the only way to control Islam is by dictatorship.
That's true for certain countries in the Mideast, but I don't think it's true of all of Islam. Turkey is an Islamic country, but doesn't require a dictatorship to control it. I think there is some other dynamic taking place. The ingrained tribal nature of the society, perhaps? I've wondered about this before. Saddam was brutal. He dealt with his opposition similar to the way the current government does, although he seemed to be more effective at it. He controlled Iraq. If Saddam had not been so brutal would things have been fine in Iraq, or would the next brutal dictator in line have taken over?
It reminds me of what we are currently seeing in Christianity in the USA. Christians want the freedom to discriminate against others and to be mean to them. In Iraq, people have a similar notion about freedom. Each tribal unit wants to be free to be mean to the other tribal units or sects. It's like people want to be free, they just don't seem to understand that the concept grants rights to others. The only way to achieve such a draconian system is through dictatorship.
Basically, it creates a series of dictatorships that changes hands from time to time. Over an infinite timespan, theoretically everyone gets a taste of the freedom to oppress others. But it never actually achieves freedom for everyone at any given time.
I may have overthought my previous theory. Probably, it's just safer to say, whatever notion Iraqis have about western style democracy, they don't want it, and wish we would leave them alone. Not true for all Iraqis probably, but whatever it is we've got that works for us, just isn't going to work for them.
The thing that makes democracy such a hard sell is nearly every dictatorship uses the term democratic. North Korea, the Democratic People's Republic of Korea. Try telling that to someone who has never lived under what we call democracy, but knows something about
North Korea.
All we need to do is keep bombing them and then everything will be ok.[/conservoprogressive]
Quote from: AllPurposeAtheist on June 15, 2014, 12:57:37 PM
The thing that makes democracy such a hard sell is nearly every dictatorship uses the term democratic. North Korea, the Democratic People's Republic of Korea. Try telling that to someone who has never lived under what we call democracy, but knows something about
North Korea.
Just don't allow them to move here, they'll become Republicans.
(http://atheistforums.com/Smileys/default/toilet.gif)
-Nam
Quote from: SGOS on June 15, 2014, 10:43:37 AM
That's true for certain countries in the Mideast, but I don't think it's true of all of Islam.
That's true. Turkey is an exception as is Indonesia. They did achieve democracy but it was on their own.
It seems that Arabic Culture has a lot to do with it as well.
This is not a left vs right issue. I do not understand after the Koren War and Viet Nam stalemates, why we still think to this day if we just put troops on the grounds we will be greeted as liberators?
The middle east does not hate us for getting involved. But after you offer to fix a friend's car and you blow the engine up, the next time you offer they remember how well you did the job the first time. We should not support either side because we will simply be supporting one side or another in the future.
No ammount of military might from the West cannot reason with these religious fanatics in the Middle East, period.
The talking head narrative is that Iran is now our new BFF. Go figure, eh?
Quote from: AllPurposeAtheist on June 16, 2014, 10:18:03 AM
The talking head narrative is that Iran is now our new BFF. Go figure, eh?
Anyone who believes that is an idiot (I'm mainly talking about those in the media and/or government).
-Nam
Quote from: drunkenshoe on June 16, 2014, 10:50:32 AM
So technically you believe other western countries are your natural BFFs then? :rotflmao:
You're filled to the brim with assumptions, aren't you? You must gag a lot.
-Nam
Quote from: drunkenshoe on June 16, 2014, 12:36:19 PM
Aw... no morons? You do not have to provide a comeback to everything I write. They are not keeping scores.
They? Do you see imaginary pixies, or something? Should get that checked on.
-Nam
Wow. That is so in-your-face. You are really an interesting person, kiddo.
Quote from: the_antithesis on June 16, 2014, 12:55:56 PM
Wow. That is so in-your-face. You are really an interesting person, kiddo.
I'm 37 next week. Don't call me "kiddo", makes me feel old. It's bad enough I have gray hair.
-Nam
At 37 you could easily be one of my bastards kiddo.
Mod hat on
Now tone down the aggressiveness a bit if you wish to remain a member of this forum.
Quote from: PopeyesPappy on June 16, 2014, 02:04:55 PM
At 37 you could easily be one of my bastards kiddo.
Mod hat on
Now tone down the aggressiveness a bit if you wish to remain a member of this forum.
This is how I speak, don't like it: do what you have to do. Bothers me not.
-Nam
That's it! I'm keeping score from now on and rating comebacks on a sliding scale taking into account some people are just naturally comeback sensically impaired.
It annoys me very much that Iran has to be the "bad guy", considering how historic and interesting their culture is. Even worse that we over-threw their democratic, secular government (for the British, not even ourselves) in the first place and let the fundamentalist asshats take control.
I very much love the Persian people, and it seems to me that many Iranians still like the United States, just not it's politicians.
I think more people than you give credit for understand the distinction between government and the citizens at large.
I agree.. Iran became our boogie man when our CIA puppet was kicked to the curb.