http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/cifamerica/2009/may/22/atheism-religion-god-richard-dawkins
QuoteMy problem with atheists is their tiresome â€" and way old â€" insistence that they are being oppressed and their fixation with the fine points of Christianity. What â€" did their Sunday school teachers flog their behinds with a Bible when they were kids?
This article reminds me about a conversation I walked in on of someone I know telling another person I know (both theists... one catholic, one fundie of I don't know what denomination) She was saying things like "Why can't atheists be silent nonbelievers?" and when I finally was asked to give my input, she completely talked over everything I was trying to say, and I wasn't able to say anything without being interrupted or the topic being changed
One part of the article:
QuoteWhat atheists don't seem to realise is that even for believers, faith is never easy in this world of injustice, pain and delusion. Even for believers, God exists just beyond the scrim of the senses. So, atheists, how about losing the tired sarcasm and boring self-pity and engaging believers seriously?
was also said by the person I know.
My questions to any theists in this forum willing to answer, or any of us on here that was told/knows why from a believer point of view...: Why is faith so hard for you? Why is it such an easy target to ridicule? If it had any validity would it be so easy to pick apart and look at it like it's nonsense?
I am perfectly happy to engage believers seriously when they get off their high horse. Folks like this lady just get my copypasta responses.
Quote from: Hijiri Byakuren on May 29, 2014, 01:32:07 PM
I am perfectly happy to engage believers seriously when they get off their high horse. Folks like this lady just get my copypasta responses.
Yeah. I learned that the hard way that day. That girl was on a RANT! :lol: I had to calm her down and out of nowhere she started yelling at me: "If people don't believe in god, what is stopping them from just killing everyone??? WHAT IS THE POINT?"
At that point, I realized it was a really bad idea to get in the passenger seat of her car... :lol:
Nothing like projecting one's attributes on to those that don't believe in a magic man in the sky. This is like a large gang of boys and girls picking on a boy and girl different than they are, and then saying the boy and girl think they are being treated wrongly when they object to being treated the way they are by those that claim they are being persecuted by the boy and girl. Unbelievable! Another example of a few atheist are the cause of Christians feeling prosecuted, and that atheists are the cause of their evil doings. :fU: Solitary
QuoteMy problem with atheists is their tiresome â€" and way old â€" insistence that they are being oppressed and their fixation with the fine points of Christianity. What â€" did their Sunday school teachers flog their behinds with a Bible when they were kids?
I would say we have a right to be the ones to feel oppressed. Christians certainly are not being oppressed. They have their own entire TV network! Ever see an atheist network? How many atheist TV and radio shows are there compared to Christian ones? When was the last time she saw an atheist book store or gift shop? When has she walked past atheist churches on nearly every street corner? When was the last time atheists knocked on her door to hand her literature and talk about how there is no God?
As for our "fixation with the fine points of Christianity"--well, if she doesn't want us criticizing the Bible, she should consider finding a holy book that doesn't have so many contradictions, errors, and impossible fantasies in it. She should find a religion that is not so oppressive to women, gays, minorities, immigrants, and everyone else who isn't male, straight, and Christian. It is not our fault if her religion sucks; it's hers, and she should do something about it.
QuoteEven for believers, God exists just beyond the scrim of the senses.
Then how do they know he exists? Through faith, and that proves that faith is both blind and dumb. Believing in something that is so far beyond your senses that you can't see, hear, touch, taste, smell, or experience it in any way at all, is called magical thinking. I might as well say that fairies are real, I just can't see them. Unicorns exist, I've just never seen them. The world of Harry Potter is real, but it exists just beyond my senses and so I have never been there to tell you what it's like. By her reasoning, I could believe in a hundred impossible things and simply claim that I can't see them but I know they are there. I mean why stop at just one?
A Christian whining that atheists whine too much.
Someone is having a bad day.
Quote from: GSOgymrat on May 29, 2014, 05:52:12 PM
A Christian whining that atheists whine too much.
Someone is having a bad day.
:lol: I was thinking the same thing.
Quote from: GSOgymrat on May 29, 2014, 05:52:12 PM
A Christian whining that atheists whine too much.
Someone is having a bad day.
Can you say "midlife crisis"?
Quote from: stromboli on May 29, 2014, 11:04:40 PM
Can you say "midlife crisis"?
"Midlife"? That is quite generous of you.
Quote from: PickelledEggs on May 29, 2014, 01:16:59 PM
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/cifamerica/2009/may/22/atheism-religion-god-richard-dawkins
This article reminds me about a conversation I walked in on of someone I know telling another person I know (both theists... one catholic, one fundie of I don't know what denomination) She was saying things like "Why can't atheists be silent nonbelievers?" and when I finally was asked to give my input, she completely talked over everything I was trying to say, and I wasn't able to say anything without being interrupted or the topic being changed
One part of the article:was also said by the person I know.
My questions to any theists in this forum willing to answer, or any of us on here that was told/knows why from a believer point of view...: Why is faith so hard for you? Why is it such an easy target to ridicule? If it had any validity would it be so easy to pick apart and look at it like it's nonsense?
My answer to them is quite mild and understanding. It goes something like: Go fuck yourself! (Sanitized for your protection)
Quote from: PickelledEggs on May 29, 2014, 01:36:21 PM
Yeah. I learned that the hard way that day. That girl was on a RANT! :lol: I had to calm her down and out of nowhere she started yelling at me: "If people don't believe in god, what is stopping them from just killing everyone??? WHAT IS THE POINT?"
There is a core of false assumptions widespread throughout Christianity that is ingrained into the Christian psyche through reinforcement from peer groups and authorities in the pulpit. It probably runs deeper than the ingrained assumptions about blacks in the South 150 years ago. They are agreed upon assumptions that theists have not bothered to verify or even test logically because there is widespread agreement on them.
When these deeply indoctrinated beliefs are challenged, Christians sometimes become defensive and react with rants and other emotionally driven responses. They want to return to the status quo, where they do not have to confront their own beliefs. You push them, they get frustrated. They cannot be educated. Diversity must be forced upon them.
Charlotte Allen doesn't appear to know what an atheist actually is. She seems to be having a rant at her misguided ideas of what an atheist should be like. She can't seem to grasp the concept of not believing in a god, and believes that atheists just hate god. She's right when she suggests that her God is an absurdity to atheists, but wrong when she calls it an assumption.
I can't believe that article is what passes for journalism these days.
Quote from: SGOS on May 30, 2014, 08:05:34 AM
There is a core of false assumptions widespread throughout Christianity that is ingrained into the Christian psyche through reinforcement from peer groups and authorities in the pulpit. It probably runs deeper than the ingrained assumptions about blacks in the South 150 years ago. They are agreed upon assumptions that theists have not bothered to verify or even test logically because there is widespread agreement on them.
When these deeply indoctrinated beliefs are challenged, Christians sometimes become defensive and react with rants and other emotionally driven responses. They want to return to the status quo, where they do not have to confront their own beliefs. You push them, they get frustrated. They cannot be educated. Diversity must be forced upon them.
I'm not sure how good of an idea forcing diversity is though.... I find that it's better to publicly ridicule them so their idea doesn't spread.
Forcing them to think is too similar to them trying to force us to believe something. But if they are embarrased enough to spread their nonsense, or people realize how ridiculous it is, it seems to work better.
Quote from: PickelledEggs on May 30, 2014, 02:39:16 PM
I'm not sure how good of an idea forcing diversity is though.... I find that it's better to publicly ridicule them so their idea doesn't spread.
Forcing them to think is too similar to them trying to force us to believe something. But if they are embarrased enough to spread their nonsense, or people realize how ridiculous it is, it seems to work better.
I think about in the contexts similar to the gay movement. Gays would never have the right to marry if they didn't force the issue very hard. It never would have been given to them by a Christian majority if they had stayed in the closets and held their tongues like a good little minority. Granted, many Christians still don't like it, but such movements must come out into the open before they can be accepted. And of course, for some Christians, coming out into the open is an affront to their senses. However, they can get over it through the conditioning of repeated exposure. On the other hand, they will never get over it if left to their own devices.
Nor am I opposed to ridicule. It can be helpful at times.
Quote from: SGOS on May 31, 2014, 11:37:54 AM
I think about in the contexts similar to the gay movement. Gays would never have the right to marry if they didn't force the issue very hard. It never would have been given to them by a Christian majority if they had stayed in the closets and held their tongues like a good little minority. Granted, many Christians still don't like it, but such movements must come out into the open before they can be accepted. And of course, for some Christians, coming out into the open is an affront to their senses. However, they can get over it through the conditioning of repeated exposure. On the other hand, they will never get over it if left to their own devices.
Nor am I opposed to ridicule. It can be helpful at times.
You have a good point. I guess it's fine to assert your view as long as your views and opinions are educated and not out of ignorance.
Sent via your mom.
QuoteMy problem with atheists is their tiresome â€" and way old â€" insistence that they are being oppressed
Why is this such a pervasive assumption? It's ridiculous.
Quote from: Mermaid on May 31, 2014, 07:50:23 PMWhy is this such a pervasive assumption? It's ridiculous.
She's responding to a couple pretty USA-centric allegations: atheist candidates are essentially unelectable to high office, atheists are legally barred from seeking state office in several state constitutions (unenforceable, but imho, it's shameful that these laws are even still on the books), and the social stigma surrounding atheism leading to a lot of closeted atheists. She sorta blows this off as baseless whining, but these are actually fairly serious problems.
There actually is some discrimination against atheists (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Discrimination_against_atheists), which varies a lot depending on where you live. In some places, it's legally punishable by death. In others, it's not legally punishable, but it's the sort of thing that'll get you about as much antipathy as coming out as a rapist (http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/religion/story/2011-12-10/religion-atheism/51777612/1?siteID=a1LgFw09t88-6eF43iiB_78GpxhK5cQdWQ). In others, it's practically normal. In the West, atheists no longer face heavy discrimination (for example, being burned alive for alleged blasphemy), but discrimination against atheists has not gone away entirely. Some atheists do call attention to this, but they typically don't kvetch about it or exaggerate the severity of it like she apparently thinks they do.
Compare that to persecution complexes of both Christians and Muslims (even going so far as fatwa envy against criticisms of their religion, and in the latter case, actual fatwas against the grave threat posed by cartoonists), and it's pretty clear who's faking victimhood.
So basically, she's whining about how others criticize her beliefs. Which means I give zero fucks.
Quote from: Savior2006 on June 08, 2014, 01:34:19 AM
So basically, she's whining about how others criticize her beliefs. Which means I give zero fucks.
lol exactly. Whining about whining is worse than just regular whining.
I need some wine....