Atheistforums.com

Extraordinary Claims => Religion General Discussion => Topic started by: Contemporary Protestant on May 28, 2014, 07:55:42 PM

Title: Does evil exist?
Post by: Contemporary Protestant on May 28, 2014, 07:55:42 PM
Does evil exist?

Any statements (with cited evidence) will be appreciated
Title: Re: Does evil exist?
Post by: Moralnihilist on May 28, 2014, 08:24:08 PM
Define evil.
Title: Re: Does evil exist?
Post by: aileron on May 28, 2014, 08:34:47 PM
Quote from: Contemporary Protestant on May 28, 2014, 07:55:42 PM
Does evil exist?

Any statements (with cited evidence) will be appreciated

Do people making asinine posts on internet forums count?
Title: Re: Does evil exist?
Post by: KUSA on May 28, 2014, 08:57:05 PM
Quote from: Contemporary Protestant on May 28, 2014, 07:55:42 PM
Does evil exist?

Any statements (with cited evidence) will be appreciated

No, but evil people do exist.
Title: Re: Does evil exist?
Post by: Contemporary Protestant on May 28, 2014, 08:58:59 PM
I am making this post to hear what y'all think evil is, assuming it exists, because there is a post I want to make concerning good and evil but want to establish a baseline
Title: Re: Does evil exist?
Post by: KUSA on May 28, 2014, 09:51:44 PM
Ethics, morals, right and wrong, good and evil, are all ideas and opinions that each individual or group of people make up. It's up to each person to decide what's right and what is wrong. The rest of the population will decide if it will be tolerated and or accepted.

Evil does not exist in a physical or supernatural form. It is an idea or opinion.
Title: Re: Does evil exist?
Post by: PringleTree on May 28, 2014, 10:39:50 PM
Quote from: KUSA on May 28, 2014, 09:51:44 PM...Evil does not exist in a physical or supernatural form. It is an idea or opinion.

Agreed.  Although I know far too many people who would disagree.   Think that for some strange reason it gives some people comfort to believe that evil is a force that can overcome them and is responsible for their misdeeds.
Title: Re: Does evil exist?
Post by: PickelledEggs on May 29, 2014, 02:49:55 AM
(http://www.crossingwallstreet.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/pat-robertson.jpg)
You're kidding, right?
Title: Re: Does evil exist?
Post by: Fidel_Castronaut on May 29, 2014, 05:39:56 AM
I would first clarify that I agree, 'evil' needs a definition in this context.

However, taking it as a given purely for debates sake. Objectively? No. People can justify any sort of behaviour in their mind, or more broadly in a social context should that context allow.

Most people would look back at the actions of, say, the Khmer Rouge and label them as 'evil'. I certainly wouldn't object. But then again, Pot, regardless of how crazy and brutal he was, had a justification in mind when he begun wiping out his own people.

Same can be said with (for example) Hitler. 6+ million Jews murdered at a whim, but the deeper context reveals a distrust of the Jewish people in central Europe, combined with a flagging economy and a need to 'blame' someone following Germany's humiliation following Versailles. Why not the rich jews who were an easy 'other'; a scapegoat that could unite a nation's hatred. Does this constitute 'evil'? In our social context, in our minds living in the time that we do? Yes, I would say it does. For the average German, living in poverty, ignorant to the actual methodology of the final solution? No, probably not.
Title: Re: Does evil exist?
Post by: Munch on May 29, 2014, 07:41:09 AM
Morality is a human construct to allow us to live as relatively peaceful lives as we can.

Evil is something that acts against that sense of morality.

Animals do not adopt this, animals kill other animals for survival, and are not seen as evil. This of course doesn't mean we should emulate animals, but it does highlight how own connection to the animal kingdom. After all how else can you percieve a group of rowdy post teens running around in a pack attacking singled out people if not as animals.
Title: Re: Does evil exist?
Post by: Jason78 on May 29, 2014, 09:57:31 AM
Quote from: Contemporary Protestant on May 28, 2014, 07:55:42 PM
Does evil exist?

Any statements (with cited evidence) will be appreciated

evil
ˈiːv(ə)l,-vɪl/
adjective
1.
profoundly immoral and wicked.
"his evil deeds"
synonyms:   wicked, bad, wrong, morally wrong, wrongful, immoral, sinful, ungodly, unholy, foul, vile, base, ignoble, dishonourable, corrupt, iniquitous, depraved, degenerate, villainous, nefarious, sinister, vicious, malicious, malevolent, demonic, devilish, diabolic, diabolical, fiendish, dark, black-hearted; More
antonyms:   good, virtuous
(of a force or spirit) embodying or associated with the forces of the devil.
"we were driven out of the house by an evil spirit"
harmful or tending to harm.
"the evil effects of high taxes"
synonyms:   harmful, hurtful, injurious, detrimental, deleterious, inimical, bad, mischievous, pernicious, malignant, malign, baleful, venomous, noxious, poisonous; More
antonyms:   good, beneficial
2.
(of a smell or sight) extremely unpleasant.
"a bathroom with an ineradicably evil smell"
synonyms:   unpleasant, disagreeable, nasty, horrible, foul, filthy, vile; More
antonyms:   pleasant, fine
noun
noun: evil
1.
profound immorality and wickedness, especially when regarded as a supernatural force.
"his struggle against the forces of evil"
synonyms:   wickedness, bad, badness, wrong, wrongdoing, sin, sinfulness, ungodliness, immorality, vice, iniquity, turpitude, degeneracy, vileness, baseness, perversion, corruption, depravity, villainy, nefariousness, atrocity, malevolence, devilishness; More

Source (http://lmgtfy.com/?q=evil+definition&l=1)
Title: Re: Does evil exist?
Post by: Mister Agenda on May 29, 2014, 09:59:34 AM
Supernatural evil, no. Natural and human evil, sure.
Title: Re: Does evil exist?
Post by: Contemporary Protestant on May 29, 2014, 10:16:32 AM
Whats the difference
Title: Re: Does evil exist?
Post by: no-excuses on May 29, 2014, 01:10:25 PM
An evil act or person or deed is that what results in harm to the well-being of others and cause suffering.
Title: Re: Does evil exist?
Post by: Solitary on May 29, 2014, 01:16:43 PM
A flood or tornado causes destruction and death, but is not evil unless God causes them, then He is evil. If a person does the same they are evil, and if an all powerful God doesn't stop them then He is evil too.  :wall: Solitary
Title: Re: Does evil exist?
Post by: La Dolce Vita on May 29, 2014, 02:16:07 PM
You need to define the meaning of the question first. Are you referring to "evil" supernatural forces, or people making choices that to your or mine moral system would qualify as thoroughly bad, inexcusable, etc?

If the first, that's a rather absurd notion that would need a lot of empirical evidence (not to mention definitions we could all agree upon).

If the latter, of course it exists. The face(s) of evil will depend on the morality system of the on-looker, but as long as you define a term properly, and what you define it as exists, of course it exists.
Title: Re: Does evil exist?
Post by: ApostateLois on May 29, 2014, 03:19:18 PM
If you mean do evil deeds exist, then certainly. I'd say that raping children is evil. Torture and slavery are regarded as evil in most societies, but it wasn't always so, and in some places it still isn't.  We all agree murder is evil, right? But if you kill lots of people who are all trying to kill you, then we call it war and it's okay to murder each other. I guess it's consensual murder then. Whatever, the point is that our definition of what is evil and what is good is not objective. It changes with the times and according to who is doing what to whom and for what reasons. Even the Bible indicates as much. You won't find the phrase "objective morality" in the Bible. The Bible isn't about morality, it's about obeying God without question. Things are good or bad simply because God says they are, and if he changes his mind, that is his business. His worshipers are not required to think about it, only to obey.
Title: Re: Does evil exist?
Post by: GSOgymrat on May 29, 2014, 08:07:29 PM
Quote from: no-excuses on May 29, 2014, 01:10:25 PM
An evil act or person or deed is that what results in harm to the well-being of others and cause suffering.

I'm of the same mind. I don't agree that good and evil are prescribed by God or other external agent: that not honoring your mother and father is evil because God said so. I believe in assessment of actions and consequences based on how actions affect suffering. Good actions result in consequences which minimize suffering to people and other life and maximize well-being, joy and freedom. We can't always predict with certainty the results of our actions but some actions always result in bad consequences-- rape, slavery, child abuse are a few that come to mind. These actions that  intentionally cause suffering and distress I would say are evil. This is why rape is always evil, it is an action which is inherently dehumanizing and always produces suffering, and therefore rape was evil 1000 years ago, it is evil now and would be so in the future, regardless of cultural context.
Title: Re: Does evil exist?
Post by: Munch on May 29, 2014, 08:49:08 PM
Quote from: Solitary on May 29, 2014, 01:16:43 PM
A flood or tornado causes destruction and death, but is not evil unless God causes them, then He is evil. If a person does the same they are evil, and if an all powerful God doesn't stop them then He is evil too.  :wall: Solitary

god is theists ways of explaining away tragic events they have no control over. Its the same reaction when ancient cavemen discovered fire and got burnt, probably even prayed to the fire demon.
Title: Re: Does evil exist?
Post by: no-excuses on May 29, 2014, 09:58:11 PM
As a matter of fact, there shouldn't be any need to define evil or question it's existence because what we need to know is quite different from definition or reasons of existence. What we need to know is to live in peace and harmony together, If we were successful in doing that we will defeat the evil whatever it is. Philosophical questions are always interesting but not rational sometimes at least for ordinary  people. It fucks your brain up literally, so I suggest to stop this thread and let it rest in peace.
On another hand and on a most interesting topic, you guys know about this new trend of thigh gap, it is driving girls crazy everywhere, check it out it is pretty nasty.

Thank you.
Title: Re: Does evil exist?
Post by: the_antithesis on May 31, 2014, 09:43:32 AM
If you wish to learn about evil, I suggest you read this book:

[spoiler](http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/8/8c/DungeonMasterGuide4Cover.jpg/200px-DungeonMasterGuide4Cover.jpg)

Although, you probably won't get what I'm saying.[/spoiler]