I cannot stand religion, I will respect people believing in it that's their choice and I will respect that, but I absolutely abhor the concept of religion itself, it twists minds and hardly anybody notices it, you take a scientific fact and a verse in the bible that contradict each other and people will think "Oh well since its in the bible it must have been right that one time and just defied Science." I don't know any other atheists that feel as strongly as I do so I have a difficult time venting these things. People will hear the word "atheist" and assume the worst. Oh you're an atheist? (Gosh don't talk to them, they probably worship satan...) Just about everyone I know family and friends believe in god and they look at me as if I just am unsure of what I believe in and i'll go down the "correct" path in life later, so I always have to be extremely careful about what I say and the moment I let off a little bit of steam and express my opinion it's "WOAH MAN WE DON'T NEED TO HEAR THAT STUFF" yet everyday i'll deal with things I find ridiculous. Things like praying, or believing miracles happen or being touched by a spirit, drive me up a wall, I look at these things and think to myself "How in the hell can anyone in the right mind think this is remotely possible?" Or when people say evolution and creationism should be taught 50-50 I lose my mind, that's absolutely ridiculous. Gosh I needed to get that off my chest, it's nice to finally find somewhere to communicate with a community that understands these thoughts. I'd love to hear some feedback! Am I being too harsh?
Welcome. Your attitude/emotions are well understood here.
In the land of the no-brained people the one-brained person is king.
Hi pm1255, welcome to our little corner of sanity in an insane world!
As Stromboli said, your feelings are well understood here. Many members here were once religious, some even fundamentalists, but at some point in life they started questioning their beliefs and became atheists. Seeing how many people blindly stick to their poisonous beliefs drives many of us crazy. If we could see things for what they are, why others can't? Why do these people keep pushing their fairy tales on the rest of the world? You're not the only one feeling this frustration. Unfortunately, there's not much we can do about it, apart from trying to debate and "educate" the religious. Then again, this exercise can also be frustrating...
Again, welcome to the shark tank!
Thanks for the welcoming, it's just a fantastic feeling to know that others understand this frustration!
I know how that feels, just hang in there. Welcome to the forum.
Welcome to the forum and to the real world :) The reason that theists frown upon atheists is because we challenge their beliefs by bashing them over the head with facts and logic. In many instances we momentarily allow them a peak through their theological smoke screen at reality before they retreat back into their world of delusion.
Remember in the Matrix movie when one of the resistance fighters asked to be plugged back into the Matrix because he had problems facing reality? This is the same situation that many theists are in.
Damn John, that is a fantastic comparison! haha. I say bravo to that!
I don't see atheism as a belief as being inferior, however when someone tells me I'm an idiot, I don't have any desire to be friends with them. That being said there are many atheists, that I would consider a friend.
Quote from: Contemporary Protestant on May 06, 2014, 06:57:59 PM
I don't see atheism as a belief as being inferior, however when someone tells me I'm an idiot, I don't have any desire to be friends with them. That being said there are many atheists, that I would consider a friend.
Your assumption that atheism is a belief is wrong. Atheism negates belief!
Sorry, is "world view" acceptable? How would you like for me to refer to atheism?
Quote from: Contemporary Protestant on May 06, 2014, 07:29:22 PM
Sorry, is "world view" acceptable? How would you like for me to refer to atheism?
It's really a lack of belief, but I don't see the problem in saying "belief" outside of debate or discussion. S long as you get the general concept: that atheism is a lack of belief in gods rather than believing that there is no god (that would be strong atheism), then you're fine as far as I'm concerned.
I have come to the conclusion that the biggest underlying thing that make people have a problem with atheism is purpose/afterlife. People have the idea DRILLED in to their head that "if when we die, there is nothing afterwards, what is the point?"... and I think it scares the living shit out of them because our views go against every fiber of their belief.
Quote from: pm1255 on May 06, 2014, 04:56:06 PMI cannot stand religion, I will respect people believing in it that's their choice and I will respect that, but I absolutely abhor the concept of religion itself, it twists minds and hardly anybody notices it, you take a scientific fact and a verse in the bible that contradict each other and people will think "Oh well since its in the bible it must have been right that one time and just defied Science." I don't know any other atheists that feel as strongly as I do so I have a difficult time venting these things. People will hear the word "atheist" and assume the worst. Oh you're an atheist? (Gosh don't talk to them, they probably worship satan...) Just about everyone I know family and friends believe in god and they look at me as if I just am unsure of what I believe in and i'll go down the "correct" path in life later, so I always have to be extremely careful about what I say and the moment I let off a little bit of steam and express my opinion it's "WOAH MAN WE DON'T NEED TO HEAR THAT STUFF" yet everyday i'll deal with things I find ridiculous. Things like praying, or believing miracles happen or being touched by a spirit, drive me up a wall, I look at these things and think to myself "How in the hell can anyone in the right mind think this is remotely possible?" Or when people say evolution and creationism should be taught 50-50 I lose my mind, that's absolutely ridiculous. Gosh I needed to get that off my chest, it's nice to finally find somewhere to communicate with a community that understands these thoughts. I'd love to hear some feedback! Am I being too harsh?
10/10 Would read again.
I too am really bothered that beliefs that would otherwise be considered mentally deranged are given such legitimacy and having an unsuitably deferential opposing opinion is regarded almost as a crime (technically, it actually is a crime in some places). And I'm also really sick of people going the "uppity" atheist route - painting atheists as "intolerant" and "mean" as an excuse to not listen to their criticisms.
Quote from: PickelledEggs on May 06, 2014, 10:22:03 PM
I have come to the conclusion that the biggest underlying thing that make people have a problem with atheism is purpose/afterlife. People have the idea DRILLED in to their head that "if when we die, there is nothing afterwards, what is the point?"... and I think it scares the living shit out of them because our views go against every fiber of their belief.
It's definitely the elephant in the room. It definitely explains why believers are so adamant about seemingly trivial and indefensible beliefs that are nevertheless integral to their belief system. It certainly looms large in creationist [synonym for thinking]: if evolution is true, then the Bible isn't. And if the Bible isn't, then Jesus never died for our sins, so therefore... So you have this big opposition to radiometric dating, not based on anything even remotely related to it, but because of its supposed theological implications. It's like contesting the existence of multiple galaxies on the grounds that it doesn't jive with Skyrim lore. It's just layers and layers of wrong.
I, personally, think that it is due to an astounding amount of atheists coming off as boorish, loud, obnoxious, and not dissimilar to a bull in a china shop when it comes to religious discussions.
Recently I have found it to be quite easy to deal with the mentally challenged(religious whatever) simply by explaining to them that I don't care what they believe I simply am not interested in it. Occasionally I get the preachy idiot, however now I actually have the mentally challenged arguing for me as opposed to having to fight for myself. It is actually more of a joy watching 2 mentally challenged people argue their delusions with each other instead of having to argue something that I haven't given a shit about in almost 10 years. It is surprisingly nice to not have to defend ones lack of belief constantly.
Welcome to the forum pm1255. Your frustration is easy to understand. Its the reason I make it a rule to never discuss religion or politics with anyone other than my wife. Not friends, not family, not coworkers. No one other than my wife. If people bring up the subject with me, I nod and smile and change the subject. Really cuts down of the frustration that way.
I will take it a step further and say that if I were open about my "world view" at work, Bad Things would likely ensue. It may not be overt, but I am pretty positive that I'd be treated differently. Perhaps I'd fall below the line in the next round of employee wipeouts, or, less extreme, be passed over for promotion, perks, have my salary increase be a tiny bit smaller, etc. People in my very corporate realm have absolute power over me and some of them discuss their devout Christianity to whomever will listen. Yeah. It's the world we live in.
Quote from: PickelledEggs on May 06, 2014, 10:22:03 PM
I have come to the conclusion that the biggest underlying thing that make people have a problem with atheism is purpose/afterlife. People have the idea DRILLED in to their head that "if when we die, there is nothing afterwards, what is the point?"... and I think it scares the living shit out of them because our views go against every fiber of their belief.
Yep, "we are so important the universe is geared around our survival after death." Tiny bit egotistical.
Yes, welcome to the forum.
And as to why it's frowned upon, I think it's because most of the "holy books" say to kill all who don't believe in their God
Quote from: GrinningYMIR on May 07, 2014, 08:04:10 AM
Yes, welcome to the forum.
And as to why it's frowned upon, I think it's because most of the "holy books" say to kill all who don't believe in their God
The priesthood couldn't have keep their non-jobs if religion was optional.
Quote from: Mermaid on May 07, 2014, 07:59:03 AM
I will take it a step further and say that if I were open about my "world view" at work, Bad Things would likely ensue. It may not be overt, but I am pretty positive that I'd be treated differently. Perhaps I'd fall below the line in the next round of employee wipeouts, or, less extreme, be passed over for promotion, perks, have my salary increase be a tiny bit smaller, etc. People in my very corporate realm have absolute power over me and some of them discuss their devout Christianity to whomever will listen. Yeah. It's the world we live in.
Same. Once, I was directly asked by a co-worker and responded that I don't really subscribe to religious belief; that religious groups make so many mutually exclusive claims and who can really know which are correct and which are incorrect. (This is about the softest criticism of religion that I can manage) I watched a normally gregarious and amiable guy sneer and angrily state that his beliefs (Catholic) are obviously correct and that hell awaits those who think otherwise. Definitely a conversation-stopper.
Quote from: Mermaid on May 07, 2014, 07:59:03 AM
I will take it a step further and say that if I were open about my "world view" at work, Bad Things would likely ensue. It may not be overt, but I am pretty positive that I'd be treated differently. Perhaps I'd fall below the line in the next round of employee wipeouts, or, less extreme, be passed over for promotion, perks, have my salary increase be a tiny bit smaller, etc. People in my very corporate realm have absolute power over me and some of them discuss their devout Christianity to whomever will listen. Yeah. It's the world we live in.
Actually, I've been planning to be open when I land a job someday. However, these are exactly the repercussions that I think I might have to face if I'm open about my non-religiosity in my future workplaces. I really hope it's not true, but looking at stupid and horrible things that some religious people do to reaffirm and protect their precarious faith, I guess yeah, this is the reality. Hopefully I'll be able to deal with it.
Quote from: Contemporary Protestant on May 06, 2014, 07:29:22 PM
Sorry, is "world view" acceptable? How would you like for me to refer to atheism?
It's an interesting question. Of course, atheism isn't a world-view either. Neither is theism. There's not enough in either to comprise world views, because mere atheism and mere theism are just differing opinions on one very specific topic. For example, it would be reasonable to refer to Protestantism as your worldview, but it wouldn't be correct to refer to your worldview as 'theism', it would be ignoring 99.99% of what actually DOES make up your worldview. Protestantism doesn't cover it completely either, but it's at least complex enough to be described as a worldview. Similarly, humanism and scientific rationalism can reasonably be considered worldviews.
Atheism is at least a lack of belief in any God or gods, and often isn't any more than that. Maybe you could refer to it as an opinion if you find 'lack of belief' unwieldy. Just my two cents.
I find you respectful, btw, which inclines me to be respectful in return. Thanks for that, I prefer to be respectful, but I don't always find it easy when I'm dealing with someone who isn't making an effort to be respectful to me (or my demographic).
They'd probably like us more if we stopped eating their babies.
Quote from: AllPurposeAtheist on May 07, 2014, 11:47:44 AM
They'd probably like us more if we stopped eating their babies.
Not gonna happen.
MUST.....HAVE......BABY FLESH!
Quote from: StupidWiz on May 07, 2014, 09:03:48 AM
Actually, I've been planning to be open when I land a job someday. However, these are exactly the repercussions that I think I might have to face if I'm open about my non-religiosity in my future workplaces. I really hope it's not true, but looking at stupid and horrible things that some religious people do to reaffirm and protect their precarious faith, I guess yeah, this is the reality. Hopefully I'll be able to deal with it.
Forgive me for asking, but WHY would you do that? What is the point of discussing this?
I guess I look at that as a form of proselytizing, too.
Quote from: Mermaid on May 07, 2014, 08:26:16 PM
Forgive me for asking, but WHY would you do that? What is the point of discussing this?
I guess I look at that as a form of proselytizing, too.
I apologize if somehow It came out wrong. When i said I'll be open about it, it means that when people ask me why I don't pray Dhuhur, or Ashar or Friday prayers, I just wanna be able to say that I'm not a Muslim anymore, also I wanna be able to say I'm not a Christian either (Cause they always assume if you leave your religion, you automatically join the other one). I'm not interested in proselytizing whatsoever cause I know it's just a waste of time. I've been in their shoes and I know there's nothing that come out from an atheist would make me question my faith. It's always a journey from within, if they're not interested in the 1st place, why should I indulge myself in talking about their ridiculous religions?
Ok, I see. Thanks for explaining. I completely misinterpreted what you wrote.
Quote from: Mermaid on May 07, 2014, 08:49:00 PM
Ok, I see. Thanks for explaining. I completely misinterpreted what you wrote.
No worries, all I want is just being true to myself. I don't want to live in a lie anymore, it's really exhausting.
Btw, yay, I just evolved to Nematode~ :pidu:
Wiz, ever think about moving to a country where being open about being an atheist isn't life threatening?
Welcome aboard pm1255! Religion is an escape from reality that makes believers feel good, when you say you are an atheist they see it as a threat to their security blanket. It's like telling a small child you don't believe in Santa, and even worse when you tell them he doesn't exist. Solitary
Quote from: Solitary on May 08, 2014, 02:34:36 AM
Welcome aboard pm1255! Religion is an escape from reality that makes believers feel good, when you say you are an atheist they see it as a threat to their security blanket. It's like telling a small child you don't believe in Santa, and even worse when you tell them he doesn't exist. Solitary
It's AS IF telling them that the nonsense they believe isn't real, that the invisible, silent being in the sky really isn't keeping score of how many times you play with yourself. OH THE HORRORS OF REALITY! What? That fink down the street isn't going to burn forever and ever and ever and ever and ever? Certainly you must be a criminal of the worse kind for thinking such thoughts!
Quote from: AllPurposeAtheist on May 08, 2014, 02:16:03 AM
Wiz, ever think about moving to a country where being open about being an atheist isn't life threatening?
All the time, APA, all the time... :neutral:
It seems odd that the beliefs for which there are no evidence are defended in the most draconian ways. The most defended might be one's religion. After that, may be various political ideologies. As soon as evidence is removed from a claim, people will clamor to nurture it if it suits them.
Atheism is frowned upon mainly because of the types who get into it, IMO. Silly wankers who don't care about others. It's all very well to not believe in gods, but another thing to shout loudly over other good people's houses etc, especially when you're young and dumb.
Quote from: benno on May 09, 2014, 06:45:21 AM
Atheism is frowned upon mainly because of the types who get into it, IMO. Silly wankers who don't care about others. It's all very well to not believe in gods, but another thing to shout loudly over other good people's houses etc, especially when you're young and dumb.
Oh boy, I can tell you're going to be lots of fun...
Quote from: benno on May 09, 2014, 06:45:21 AM
Atheism is frowned upon mainly because of the types who get into it, IMO. Silly wankers who don't care about others. It's all very well to not believe in gods, but another thing to shout loudly over other good people's houses etc, especially when you're young and dumb.
It's all very well and good to believe in gods, but another thing to invade the schools and indoctrinate other people's children, especially when you're a blithering idiot.
Quote from: Gawdzilla Sama on May 06, 2014, 05:15:00 PM
In the land of the no-brained people the one-brained person is burned at the stake.
FIFY
Quote from: the_antithesis on May 10, 2014, 09:41:57 AM
FIFY
There's a short story about a one-eyed man in a land of the blind. They end up blinding him because he's such a prick about it.
Quote from: Gawdzilla Sama on May 10, 2014, 01:15:59 PM
There's a short story about a one-eyed man in a land of the blind. They end up blinding him because he's such a prick about it.
Yeah. Truth be told, that guy was a prick, eye or no eye.
I couldn't agree more with your opinion, although I am not used to the reaction you described. Amongst the majority of the people I know in the UK that opinion is commonplace and although there are plenty of religious people, if anything I would say it is them who feel embarrassed when discussing their beliefs in public.
What country do you live in?