Hello,
I am new to this forum, and I came across this forum as a result of my search into google for an atheist forum, a place where hopefully I can express my views about religion, in particular my former religion, Islam. I am an ex-Muslim, now an agnostic, who is still in the process of trying to figure out which position is logical.
As gleaned from my username, I am an agnostic. And not only am I an agnostic, but I am what I prefer to call a 'kind agnostic.' That is, I try my best to view all evidences and philosophical positions and such from a neutral, objective stance without any bias. I try to evaluate positions from the position of a judge, and I prefer critical thinking with respect to such issues rather than emotion. As an agnostic, I think that ultimately all or at least most arguments from both theists and atheists are subjective, circumstantial, and thus respectively ultimately insufficient regarding the question of whether a higher power(s) exist or not. Further, extrapolating from my stance on the question of the existence of a higher power(s), I believe that much of what we call logic these days is based inherently on shaky foundations which, viewed from a higher perspective, ultimately can be proven to be insufficient because of the weak assumptions which they base the argument(s) on in the first place.
Now, regarding the former aspect of my username, "kind," it is telling in and of itself. I am a kind and gentle individual. I, unlike many individuals on both the atheist and theist side, particularly the atheist side, do not like to talk in a demeaning manner to people who believe in theism, or atheism for that matter. I believe that one of the most effective ways to get your point across to people is to be respectful of them and their viewpoint(s), while at the same time countering their arguments with more rational arguments based on reason and knowledge in a very gentle manner. I feel that the more gentle and respectful an individual is in explaining their viewpoint(s), that generally the more likely it will be that the other individual(s) will be more likely to consider the respective viewpoint(s) being put forth by the explaining individual. And, I firmly believe that the opposite, being cruel and abusive in getting one's point across, is actually only likely to polarize the other individual and thus generally decrease the likelihood that one's viewpoint will be considered.
So that is all I have to say to introduce myself. I came to this forum to discuss such respective philosophic concepts, and so that is what I am here for.
Welcome. Recommend you view the thread we already have on agnosticism to see the general opinion of it here. Nearly all the agnostics that visit here come from a Christian origin, so most of us aren't that familiar with an Islamic/agnostic viewpoint. There are a few here who are former Muslims. Don't expect many of us to be knowledgeable in that regard/
I'm glad you answered my question about your username.
Welcome! I hope you don't think us all rotten people. We're actually quite kind also once you get to know us. We do joke around a bit so be prepared for dark humor. The vast majority of it is harmless.
Quote from: kindagnostic123 on March 27, 2014, 09:19:04 PM
As an agnostic, I think that ultimately all or at least most arguments from both theists and atheists are subjective, circumstantial, and thus respectively ultimately insufficient regarding the question of whether a higher power(s) exist or not.
I would disagree that the atheist arguments are subjective. The arguments are sound, even if atheists themselves might be irrational. Atheist arguments can be subjective, but few of us use the irrational arguments in public discourse, because they do not adhere to "rules" of reason and are therefore useless in understanding reality. As a former theist, I would argue that the common theist arguments are all subjective, and none that I've heard are rational or convincing. Frequently, theist arguments don't even qualify as arguments. They are simple statements of doctrine or proclamations that are more inventions than products of reason.
Welcome to the forum.
Greetings and welcome to Valhalla.
Quote from: AllPurposeAtheist on March 28, 2014, 01:48:01 AM
We're actually quite kind also once you get to know us.
Are you kidding? We're assholes.
:biggrin: Welcome aboard kindagnostic123! Solitary
Quote from: AllPurposeAtheist on March 28, 2014, 01:48:01 AM
I hope you don't think us all rotten people. We're actually quite kind also once you get to know us.
He's lying. It's a TRAP! :axe:
Quote from: Hijiri Byakuren on March 28, 2014, 10:36:53 AM
Are you kidding? We're assholes.
We may be assholes, but we're nice assholes.... Except for when we're not nice.... :lol:
Sent from the land of pizza.
Can agnostic Muslims eat pizza? I think not eating pizza is a big reason why Muslims are mad. And bacon. that would be hard for me. Just not drinking coffee as a Mormon was bad enough. I live for my frequent rushes of caffeine. Fuck religion.
Quote from: stromboli on March 28, 2014, 11:58:57 AM
Can agnostic Muslims eat pizza? I think not eating pizza is a big reason why Muslims are mad. And bacon. that would be hard for me. Just not drinking coffee as a Mormon was bad enough. I live for my frequent rushes of caffeine. Fuck religion.
That must be horrible. No pizza, no bacon, no taylor ham...
Quote from: stromboli on March 28, 2014, 11:58:57 AM
Can agnostic Muslims eat pizza? I think not eating pizza is a big reason why Muslims are mad. And bacon. that would be hard for me. Just not drinking coffee as a Mormon was bad enough. I live for my frequent rushes of caffeine. Fuck religion.
Hi Stromboli,
Pleasure to meet you! And, pleasure to meet the rest of you too! :)
Regarding your question, can agnostic Muslims eat pizza? My answer to you is, well, it depends. I shall explain the Islamic rules regarding the eating of pizza:
Rule #1) THE PIZZA MUST NEVER HAVE HAD ABSOLUTELY ANY CONTACT WITH HARAAM (forbidden) SUBSTANCES. THIS MEANS NO CONTACT WITH PORK, ALCOHOL, OR IDEALLY ANY KIND OF MEAT WHICH WAS IMPROPERLY SLAUGHTERED ACCORDING TO THE RULES REGARDING HOW ALLAAH WANTS YOU TO SLAUGHTER FOR MEAT.
Rule #2) FOR GOD'S SAKE DO NOT EAT THE PIZZA WITH YOUR LEFT HAND. YOU MUST EAT THE PIZZA WITH YOUR RIGHT HAND ONLY (may require some practice). EATING WITH YOUR LEFT HAND IS A SIN AND IT MAKES ALLAH VERY ANGRY. HE HATES PEOPLE WHO EAT WITH THEIR LEFT HAND OR BOTH HANDS, AND HE WILL DOOM THEM TO ETERNAL TORMENT IN HELLFIRE BECAUSE YOU ATE WITH YOUR LEFT HAND. YOUR LEFT HAND IS FOR CLEANING YOURSELF, LIKE CLEANING POOP FROM YOUR BUTT, IT IS NOT FOR EATING!
Rule #3) IF YOU WANT TO GET INTO PARADISE AFTER YOU DIE, YOU MUST IN ALL CASES OF BEFORE YOU BEGIN EATING SAY "BISMILLAH" (which means praise be to God).
Rule #4) EAT ONLY UNTIL YOUR STOMACH IS FILLED TO A THIRD WITH FOOD. THE PROPHET MUHAMMAD (peanut butter and jelly be upon him) SAID "You should fill your stomach a third with food, a third with water, and a third with air." SO DO AS THE PROPHET DOES!
Rule #5) AFTER EATING, YOU MUST SAY A PRAYER TO ALLAH AND MUST THANK HIM FOR THE PIZZA WHICH HE PROVIDED FOR YOU BY SAYING "Subhanallah!" (which means Glory be to God."
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So, those are all or most at least of the rules which must be observed when eating a pizza. After all, we don't want to get Allah angry because we ate with our left hand, for instance, instead of our right!
^^People wonder why the Islamic world is so backwards and full of fatalistic and cultish dogma. At least part of the reason why the Islamic world is so lacking in many aspects of progress is because of these time consuming rituals that expect you to mindlessly conform to them. All of the above information that I have mentioned here regarding eating, for instance, is not in itself mentioned in the Quran, but rather comes from the ahadeeth, which are records of what the Prophet Muhammad did, advocated, condemned, disapproved of, etc. There are certain sects of Islam, such as the Quranists, who do not believe in the hadeeth, and only believe in the Quran, and so groups like the Quranists tend to be much more open minded, progressive, and tolerant their ahadeeth conforming counterparts. Even so, it does further illustrate the point that in order for progress and science to flourish, freedom of thought is required. And for freedom of thought to be in place, one's life cannot be dominated by doctrines which claim to be scientific and rational and questionable, but upon deeper inspection reveal themselves to be fervently adverse to any type of questioning and thus rationality whatsoever.
Black Forest Ham with mayo and some aged Gouda cheese. Yum. No wonder those fuckers are mad.
Quote from: kindagnostic123 on March 28, 2014, 06:59:05 PM
Hi Stromboli,
Pleasure to meet you! And, pleasure to meet the rest of you too! :)
Regarding your question, can agnostic Muslims eat pizza? My answer to you is, well, it depends. I shall explain the Islamic rules regarding the eating of pizza:
Rule #1) THE PIZZA MUST NEVER HAVE HAD ABSOLUTELY ANY CONTACT WITH HARAAM (forbidden) SUBSTANCES. THIS MEANS NO CONTACT WITH PORK, ALCOHOL, OR IDEALLY ANY KIND OF MEAT WHICH WAS IMPROPERLY SLAUGHTERED ACCORDING TO THE RULES REGARDING HOW ALLAAH WANTS YOU TO SLAUGHTER FOR MEAT.
Rule #2) FOR GOD'S SAKE DO NOT EAT THE PIZZA WITH YOUR LEFT HAND. YOU MUST EAT THE PIZZA WITH YOUR RIGHT HAND ONLY (may require some practice). EATING WITH YOUR LEFT HAND IS A SIN AND IT MAKES ALLAH VERY ANGRY. HE HATES PEOPLE WHO EAT WITH THEIR LEFT HAND OR BOTH HANDS, AND HE WILL DOOM THEM TO ETERNAL TORMENT IN HELLFIRE BECAUSE YOU ATE WITH YOUR LEFT HAND. YOUR LEFT HAND IS FOR CLEANING YOURSELF, LIKE CLEANING POOP FROM YOUR BUTT, IT IS NOT FOR EATING!
Rule #3) IF YOU WANT TO GET INTO PARADISE AFTER YOU DIE, YOU MUST IN ALL CASES OF BEFORE YOU BEGIN EATING SAY "BISMILLAH" (which means praise be to God).
Rule #4) EAT ONLY UNTIL YOUR STOMACH IS FILLED TO A THIRD WITH FOOD. THE PROPHET MUHAMMAD (peanut butter and jelly be upon him) SAID "You should fill your stomach a third with food, a third with water, and a third with air." SO DO AS THE PROPHET DOES!
Rule #5) AFTER EATING, YOU MUST SAY A PRAYER TO ALLAH AND MUST THANK HIM FOR THE PIZZA WHICH HE PROVIDED FOR YOU BY SAYING "Subhanallah!" (which means Glory be to God."
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
So, those are all or most at least of the rules which must be observed when eating a pizza. After all, we don't want to get Allah angry because we ate with our left hand, for instance, instead of our right!
^^People wonder why the Islamic world is so backwards and full of fatalistic and cultish dogma. At least part of the reason why the Islamic world is so lacking in many aspects of progress is because of these time consuming rituals that expect you to mindlessly conform to them. All of the above information that I have mentioned here regarding eating, for instance, is not in itself mentioned in the Quran, but rather comes from the ahadeeth, which are records of what the Prophet Muhammad did, advocated, condemned, disapproved of, etc. There are certain sects of Islam, such as the Quranists, who do not believe in the hadeeth, and only believe in the Quran, and so groups like the Quranists tend to be much more open minded, progressive, and tolerant their ahadeeth conforming counterparts. Even so, it does further illustrate the point that in order for progress and science to flourish, freedom of thought is required. And for freedom of thought to be in place, one's life cannot be dominated by doctrines which claim to be scientific and rational and questionable, but upon deeper inspection reveal themselves to be fervently adverse to any type of questioning and thus rationality whatsoever.
Wow. You ever saw the pizza I made I'd be declared dead by Jihad, Infitata, gun, knife, explosives and probably burn my remains.