I really want to see where this goes and laugh at it. Just post your comments and explanations. I'll do all the laughing.
Of course, I feel Jesus in my heart! Oh wait, that's just the cholesterol blo- HNNNNNNNGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHH
Quote from: Hijiri Byakuren on March 24, 2014, 10:05:32 PM
Of course, I feel Jesus in my heart! Oh wait, that's just the cholesterol blo- HNNNNNNNGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHH
:wall: :syda: :rotflmao: :clap:
Is this the same guy over and over?
God is as real as any other imaginary friend.
Right, Harvey?
(http://i243.photobucket.com/albums/ff277/josephpalazzo/Godwaiting14Byrs.gif) (http://s243.photobucket.com/user/josephpalazzo/media/Godwaiting14Byrs.gif.html)
Quote from: josephpalazzo on March 25, 2014, 06:54:56 PM
(http://i243.photobucket.com/albums/ff277/josephpalazzo/Godwaiting14Byrs.gif) (http://s243.photobucket.com/user/josephpalazzo/media/Godwaiting14Byrs.gif.html)
:rotflmao:
There is no God. Give up.
God Israel?
Quote from: rex on March 26, 2014, 03:54:45 AM
There is no God. Give up.
The problem here is that people will ask for evidence for your assertion. OTOH, if you say, "there is a lack of evidence in the existence of God", the assertion speaks for itself about the evidence, or the lack of evidence.
My evidence is the fact that they can't come up with a proper God definition. No science supports it. No trace can be found of it anywhere. Nobody seen it ever.
ZERO trace. ZERO proof. ZERO logic. ZERO sense.
There is absolutely NOTHING which points to any God ANYWHERE EVER.
The God hypothesis itself makes no sense.
Quote from: rex on March 26, 2014, 06:05:37 AM
My evidence is the fact that they can't come up with a proper God definition. No science supports it. No trace can be found of it anywhere. Nobody seen it ever.
ZERO trace. ZERO proof. ZERO logic. ZERO sense.
There is absolutely NOTHING which points to any God ANYWHERE EVER.
The God hypothesis itself makes no sense.
Agree on that, but a theist will say, "I know in my heart that God exists". So asking for evidence from a theist will not dissiduade him from believing. He believes in spite of the lack of evidence.
Well that's not my problem. He can believe all day long won't make it true. I simply inform people god does not exist. They can hate me all day long it will not make it wrong.
As for feelings in the heart people feel many things in the hearts. Often the wrong things.
Quote from: rex on March 26, 2014, 06:15:10 AM
Well that's not my problem. He can believe all day long won't make it true. I simply inform people god does not exist. They can hate me all day long it will not make it wrong.
As for feelings in the heart people feel many things in the hearts. Often the wrong things.
Agree with you. However, I have been debating theists on theist forums for years, and I'm quite familiar with their tactics and argumentation, and telling them exactly in those terms you are using will not convince them that they are wrong. You are dealing with people who have been brainwashed from day one in their lives. What they believe is all that they know, and anyone who tries otherwise is very often not met with kindness. But even those who are willing to debate, in the end, as a last resort, they will say that they are right, and you are wrong. It becomes a matter of who is right in his "opinions", and opinions are not objective. So they feel that in their hearts of hearts, they are right.
Quote from: josephpalazzo on March 26, 2014, 06:30:05 AM
Agree with you. However, I have been debating theists on theist forums for years, and I'm quite familiar with their tactics and argumentation, and telling them exactly in those terms you are using will not convince them that they are wrong. You are dealing with people who have been brainwashed from day one in their lives. What they believe is all that they know, and anyone who tries otherwise is very often not met with kindness. But even those who are willing to debate, in the end, as a last resort, they will say that they are right, and you are wrong. It becomes a matter of who is right in his "opinions", and opinions are not objective. So they feel that in their hearts of hearts, they are right.
I am not omnipotent or omniscient.
Nobody is. :wink2:
Quote from: josephpalazzo on March 26, 2014, 06:37:48 AM
Nobody is. :wink2:
I mean I can do what I do. I don't know how to convince every person on the planet that god doesn't exist.
I'm not even sure that there are no people who can't be convinced god does not exist with words at all until you change something in their brains.
Quote from: rex on March 26, 2014, 06:41:08 AM
I mean I can do what I do. I don't know how to convince every person on the planet that god doesn't exist.
I'm not even sure that there are no people who can't be convinced god does not exist with words at all until you change something in their brains.
Most theist believe because they "hope" that God has his hand in things. Absolute truth isn't important as long as hope is there. Why do people buy lottery tickets? For the same reason- they have hope and the slightest chance is all they need.
Quote from: josephpalazzo on March 26, 2014, 06:50:21 AM
Most theist believe because they "hope" that God has his hand in things. Absolute truth isn't important as long as hope is there. Why do people buy lottery tickets? For the same reason- they have hope and the slightest chance is all they need.
Do you believe in free will?
Quote from: rex on March 26, 2014, 06:52:30 AM
Do you believe in free will?
x
AFAIK, free will is an illusion. Sure, I can decide I can have coffee this morning. But was my choice really free? How many factors might have influenced me to make that decision is totally unknown. But living in a society, we must have rules, and so we must postulate that we all have free will and can decide to abide with those rules and incur the consequences if we don't.
Quote from: josephpalazzo on March 26, 2014, 07:01:29 AM
x
AFAIK, free will is an illusion. Sure, I can decide I can have coffee this morning. But was my choice really free? How many factors might have influenced me to make that decision is totally unknown. But living in a society, we must have rules, and so we must postulate that we all have free will and can decide to abide with those rules and incur the consequences if we don't.
I'm talking about origin of thoughts. They are either deterministic or deterministic + change. Correct?
Quote from: josephpalazzo on March 26, 2014, 06:12:31 AM
So asking for evidence from a theist will not dissiduade him from believing.
I have never tried to dissuade someone from believing.
Quote from: josephpalazzo on March 26, 2014, 07:01:29 AM
x
AFAIK, free will is an illusion. Sure, I can decide I can have coffee this morning. But was my choice really free? How many factors might have influenced me to make that decision is totally unknown. But living in a society, we must have rules, and so we must postulate that we all have free will and can decide to abide with those rules and incur the consequences if we don't.
The very question of "Is there free will" is irrelevant.
God is like oxygen. You can't see him, but you can't live without him!
Sent from the land of pizza.
Quote from: Gawdzilla Sama on March 26, 2014, 07:06:34 AM
The very question of "Is there free will" is irrelevant.
Granted, with respect to the OP, it is irrelevant.
Quote from: PickelledEggs on March 26, 2014, 02:32:13 PM
God is like oxygen. You can't see him, but you can't live without him!
Sent from the land of pizza.
IDK about God, but oxygen is real. It has mass, density, a definite volume under STP, and we even know its electron configuration. :winkle:
The only real god is the Tooth fairy.
Quote from: josephpalazzo on March 26, 2014, 02:42:26 PM
IDK about God, but oxygen is real. It has mass, density, a definite volume under STP, and we even know its electron configuration. :winkle:
Oxygen is real?
You can't prove that and no amount of evidence can convince me otherwise. I know what I know because I have felt it. Don't persecute my beliefs!
Sent from the land of pizza.
Quote from: PickelledEggs on March 26, 2014, 02:46:30 PM
Oxygen is real?
You can't prove that and no amount of evidence can convince me otherwise. I know what I know because I have felt it. Don't persecute my beliefs!
Sent from the land of pizza.
https://www.google.ca/search?q=properties+of+oxygen+gas&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=Hh8zU7yAOaWzyAG4wYDYCQ&ved=0CAYQ_AUoAQ&biw=1424&bih=804
Quote from: leo on March 26, 2014, 02:45:48 PM
The only real god is the Tooth fairy.
(http://i243.photobucket.com/albums/ff277/josephpalazzo/toothfairyeg4-1.jpg) (http://s243.photobucket.com/user/josephpalazzo/media/toothfairyeg4-1.jpg.html)
Quote from: josephpalazzo on March 26, 2014, 02:49:14 PM
https://www.google.ca/search?q=properties+of+oxygen+gas&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=Hh8zU7yAOaWzyAG4wYDYCQ&ved=0CAYQ_AUoAQ&biw=1424&bih=804
Anyone can make a chart and put it in a Google search. Those scientists are conspiring against us! They are leading us lambs to the slaughter by trying to make us question our faith in the Lord Ramen Noodles
Sent from the land of pizza.
Quote from: PickelledEggs on March 26, 2014, 02:52:25 PM
Anyone can make a chart and put it in a Google search. Those scientists are conspiring against us! They are leading us lambs to the slaughter by trying to make us question our faith in the Lord Ramen Noodles
Sent from the land of pizza.
(http://i243.photobucket.com/albums/ff277/josephpalazzo/Flying_Spaghetti_Monster.gif) (http://s243.photobucket.com/user/josephpalazzo/media/Flying_Spaghetti_Monster.gif.html)
You're calling? Now listen to JP, he's my Messiah.
I thought this thread was about pretending you were a theist, coming up with stupid arguments for religion and faith... lol
(http://i243.photobucket.com/albums/ff277/josephpalazzo/TRAINWRECK.jpg) (http://s243.photobucket.com/user/josephpalazzo/media/TRAINWRECK.jpg.html)
Quote from: curiouscrab on March 24, 2014, 09:53:00 PM
I really want to see where this goes and laugh at it. Just post your comments and explanations. I'll do all the laughing.
See jp? :lol:
I dub you Mr. Buzz Killington :rotflmao:
Uh huh
uh uh
uh huh
uh uh
uh huh
uh uh
That pretty much sums it up,.
If God isn't real how do you explain this:: (http://i.imgur.com/VzdMv1G.jpg) (http://imgur.com/VzdMv1G)
Quote from: curiouscrab on March 24, 2014, 09:53:00 PM
I really want to see where this goes and laugh at it. Just post your comments and explanations. I'll do all the laughing.
If God wasn't real, how could I be posting this from my computer?
- or -
God is self-evident. You just need to have more faith. In him. And not other gods, because they're false.
The question of whether God is real isn't important. He probably isn't. But what's important is how we can make him real in our lives but our actions towards our fellow humans.
Quote from: josephpalazzo on March 26, 2014, 03:02:39 PM
(http://i243.photobucket.com/albums/ff277/josephpalazzo/TRAINWRECK.jpg) (http://s243.photobucket.com/user/josephpalazzo/media/TRAINWRECK.jpg.html)
Look at this and say there is no evidence for god. Just who do You think arranged the carts in this specific order, look at the angles, the beauty, a splendid design. And I'm quite sure the man driving the thing was called Jesus (probably of hispanic descent).
Last night a church-building collapsed. The only survivor was a little baby.
How do you explain that without a God?
... an all loving all knowing and all powerfull God... that chose to let an entire assembly praying to him die...
But they're in heaven now, so that's okay: the lord giveth and the lord taketh away!
Praise Jesus!
Quote from: josephpalazzo on March 26, 2014, 02:37:41 PM
Granted, with respect to the OP, it is irrelevant.
I meant in general.
That train wreck made me think of riding the bus yesterday. Some fucking idiot was driving a car just fucking with the bus driver, kept speeding up, slowing down, jumping lanes, etc., so I told the driver to just ram the fuck.. I need to win the "Oh crap! The bus wrecked lottery!".
Quote from: pioteir on April 06, 2014, 11:03:48 PM
Look at this and say there is no evidence for god. Just who do You think arranged the carts in this specific order, look at the angles, the beauty, a splendid design. And I'm quite sure the man driving the thing was called Jesus (probably of hispanic descent).
That chances that each car should end up at it's own specific angle, and just such specific distance off the track, on the very day that it happened is a billion to one. That cannot be a coincidence. It requires the hand of God.
Sorry, god didn't arrange it. He was busy rearranging my sock drawer that day.
I just know in my heart that god is real. I can feel it. :razz:
Quote from: rex on March 26, 2014, 06:05:37 AM
My evidence is the fact that they can't come up with a proper God definition. No science supports it. No trace can be found of it anywhere. Nobody seen it ever.
ZERO trace. ZERO proof. ZERO logic. ZERO sense.
There is absolutely NOTHING which points to any God ANYWHERE EVER.
The God hypothesis itself makes no sense.
Are you familiar with René Descartes, he is a fascinating fellow (I am not trying to argue with you, I'm literally asking, are you familiar with this philosopher)
If you believe in guided evolution, how do explain these rough numbers:
~99.9999% of the Universe is hard vacuum.
~99.9999% of what's left is flaming nuclear fireballs.
~99.9999% of what's left from that is cold interstellar gas.
~99.9999% of what's left from that is barren, airless balls of rock or gas giants, neither of which can sustain life.
~99.9999% of what's left from that is barely habitable planets like Mars.
Then we come to Earth.
And, imagine the history of the Universe was one year. Humans appeared in the last minute of Dec. 31st. Why wait 31,535,999 minutes to create man?
I never claimed to be genius, I never claimed that God made Earth just for Humans to enjoy, all I claim to believe (on the topic of evolution) is that Genesis was a metaphor for Evolution. God made humans after he made a lot of other things, and we may not be his last creation.
QuoteAre you familiar with René Descartes, he is a fascinating fellow
is that the guy who sat in a stove for several months while there was a war going on and decided because he could "conceive" a god it therefore must exist? What, no unicorns back then? I can conceive Santa Claus...so......
Quote from: Contemporary Protestant on April 07, 2014, 09:15:27 PM
I never claimed to be genius, I never claimed that God made Earth just for Humans to enjoy, all I claim to believe (on the topic of evolution) is that Genesis was a metaphor for Evolution. God made humans after he made a lot of other things, and we may not be his last creation.
(http://i243.photobucket.com/albums/ff277/josephpalazzo/Godwaiting14Byrs.gif) (http://s243.photobucket.com/user/josephpalazzo/media/Godwaiting14Byrs.gif.html)
Quote from: Contemporary Protestant on April 07, 2014, 09:15:27 PM
I never claimed to be genius, I never claimed that God made Earth just for Humans to enjoy, all I claim to believe (on the topic of evolution) is that Genesis was a metaphor for Evolution. God made humans after he made a lot of other things, and we may not be his last creation.
It's cool if you want to believe that God is an evolutionist, but he's not going around magically creating beings. All life is a result of mind blowing natural processes.
I never said it just magically happened without a plan, I love science and think its fascinating, especially quantum process and the possibility of alternate realities
Quote from: Contemporary Protestant on April 07, 2014, 07:37:56 PM
Are you familiar with René Descartes, he is a fascinating fellow (I am not trying to argue with you, I'm literally asking, are you familiar with this philosopher)
YES! Solitary
Quote from: Contemporary Protestant on April 07, 2014, 09:15:27 PM
I never claimed to be genius, I never claimed that God made Earth just for Humans to enjoy, all I claim to believe (on the topic of evolution) is that Genesis was a metaphor for Evolution. God made humans after he made a lot of other things, and we may not be his last creation.
Please, don't try to give superstitious nonsense credibility by associating it with science, that is a back handed compliment to science. Science and religion will never come together, because one deals with reality, and the other deals with the supernatural and conjecture with no evidence what-so-ever to support it, just faith. Solitary
I respect what you are saying but I disagree, religion and science can be together, but only if people are well educated
Quote from: Contemporary Protestant on April 08, 2014, 01:42:18 PM
I respect what you are saying but I disagree, religion and science can be together, but only if people are well educated
If you mean that as in you can be a christian and a scientist, or a muslim and a scientist... Fair enough, it happens. It surely exists.
But this is accomplished, for as far as I know, by compartimentalisation of knowledge, something we in our Western society have gotten pretty darn good at. In other words you keep these mindsets, one of starting with the conclusion and trying to make the facts fit and the other of starting with the facts and trying to reach an unbiased conclusion, seperated. They don't mix. They are divided in our minds.
Thats exactly what I mean, the two are different, but not necessarily in opposition to each other
Quote from: Contemporary Protestant on April 08, 2014, 01:57:04 PM
Thats exactly what I mean, the two are different, but not necessarily in opposition to each other
Not necessarily, true.
Yet it's the truth that they are in opposition in a lot of cases. In which case compartimentalization is the only option if you want to cling to both, but that does not make it right, true or 'not in opposition'. It's just that you cancel out the opposition in your brain. Ignoring the problem is not proof of the two notions going hand in hand.
Well how are they in opposition? From my point of view (MY POINT OF VIEW, i understand no one here agrees) is that if I read scripture and it is contrary to a proven fact, then I should do research, and re read it until it makes sense. In my personal views, scripture can't be wrong, but it can be read wrong very easily
I work with a few scientists who agree with you, CP. They are tops in their field and also devout Christians. I could never quite reconcile that, but figure they can, and that is all that matters.
Quote from: Contemporary Protestant on April 08, 2014, 02:08:42 PM
Well how are they in opposition? From my point of view (MY POINT OF VIEW, i understand no one here agrees) is that if I read scripture and it is contrary to a proven fact, then I should do research, and re read it until it makes sense. In my personal views, scripture can't be wrong, but it can be read wrong very easily
You would still be starting with the assumption that you had the conclusion. You start with the 'knowledge' (as in knowing something to be true without it actually having to be true) that scripture is infallible and always correct. And then you try your best to make the facts stick together, find links and vague references and through biased will forge them together so that your previous conclusion stays the same: the scripture is infallible. But you wouldn't be following the scientific method of letting the facts speak for themselves and research them without bias.
And that's the core problem. I could give you a few things that defy scripture. But from your answer I gather you've already found some of those and took the non-scientific path. So you can't say you also went in accordance with science, you seperated them, compartimentalized them. You ignore the opposition in your brain and favour scripture. So, if you've already had examples, me giving you more won't change anything. You need to realize that when you're following the biased path you're shoving away the core principles of the scientific method.
Well what are you familiar with?
things I've found are
1. most of Genesis, this is a poem, which is why I don't think its literal
2. Job, i have yet to understand this
3. violence in OT, I have yet to understand this, however Im beginning to arrive at the conclusion that it was "eye for an eye" kind of thing, violent things happened to violent people
Quote from: Contemporary Protestant on April 08, 2014, 02:08:42 PM
Well how are they in opposition? From my point of view (MY POINT OF VIEW, i understand no one here agrees) is that if I read scripture and it is contrary to a proven fact, then I should do research, and re read it until it makes sense. In my personal views, scripture can't be wrong, but it can be read wrong very easily
Sounds to me like your bullshitting yourself. Scripture can't be wrong, just the words written in it? Of course you can twist the words around and ignore what they actually say until they agree with any thing. You could do that with any book if you had the desire to. All that proves is you are willing to deceive yourself.
Why would god communicate to men through a book that "can be read wrong very easily", that can be mistranslated easily, that the majority of people who've read it have misunderstood?
Well when I say "reading it incorrectly" I am not saying the words in it are wrong, I'm saying that the reader doesn't understand the context. For example in NT, verses about time use the greek word "Kairos" which means something entirely different from "Cronos", if a reader didn't know the difference, the text would be much more difficult to read
Quote from: Contemporary Protestant on April 08, 2014, 02:24:27 PM
Well what are you familiar with?
things I've found are
1. most of Genesis, this is a poem, which is why I don't think its literal
2. Job, i have yet to understand this
3. violence in OT, I have yet to understand this, however Im beginning to arrive at the conclusion that it was "eye for an eye" kind of thing, violent things happened to violent people
You do realize this post is exactly proving my point, don't you?
Quote from: Contemporary Protestant on April 08, 2014, 02:08:42 PM
Well how are they in opposition? From my point of view (MY POINT OF VIEW, i understand no one here agrees) is that if I read scripture and it is contrary to a proven fact, then I should do research, and re read it until it makes sense. In my personal views, scripture can't be wrong, but it can be read wrong very easily
(http://i243.photobucket.com/albums/ff277/josephpalazzo/cr.jpg) (http://s243.photobucket.com/user/josephpalazzo/media/cr.jpg.html)
Y'all disagree with me and Im fine with that, but I think there isn't anything more to say about this
I think the Bible is infallible
You don't
I can't change you, and you can't change me
False equivalency, I'm afraid. See, there is actually a way to change our stance, and that is for empirical evidence to turn up that draws our conclusion away from our current stance that "the bible is not infallible" to the contrary view, but you seem not to have that position. Your belief in the infallibility of the Bible is unshakable. That, in itself, makes it an inferior position, because you are making statements about the world that the evidence does not support.
The difference between us is that, for important questions, we have learned to live with doubt instead of being so completely terrified of it that we would fill in with any answer that appeal to us, as you have. Furthermore, you are so steadfast in your conviction that the Bible is infallible that it boarders on arrogance â€" the arrogance that you have been taught the one true belief amongst all the philosophies available, instead of listening to the world itself and let it tell you how it works and how it came to be.
I think its rude for you to say I'm arrogant, I didn't become a Christian until I was a teenager, and I have listened to other philosophies. The other philosophies do not fulfill my spiritual needs
on the topic of logical fallacy, yes I'm guilty of them but so are you, a false flag
What logical fallacy is Hakurei guilty of?
False flag, that may not be the proper name, I've heard it described as attacking as false
assuming someone is wrong before asking any questions, Im not claiming to be logical, I'm just saying don't be illogical if you value being logical
You're not the first Christian, nor theist that myself, Hakurei, and the rest of this forum have interacted with. In fact, many, if not most of us here, were Christian at one point, so I think you're goint to have a hard time making a case that Hakurei is making assumptions.
alright thanks for clarifying, but I don't like having words put in my mouth, I have not addressed pantheism, or any other religion or philosophy, I have only talked about my views on Christianity, tbh I'm sure there is truth in all philosophies, however YHWH is the only God i worship
Despite only worshipping YHWH, I like and appreciate other religions, I love Hinduism and think its very interesting, the town I live is about 1/4 hindu, so i have a lot of hindu friends
Quote from: Contemporary Protestant on April 08, 2014, 02:54:37 PM
Y'all disagree with me and Im fine with that, but I think there isn't anything more to say about this
I think the Bible is infallible
You don't
I can't change you, and you can't change me
Anyone who believes the bible is infallible has a few loose screws up there.
Alright
Quote from: Contemporary Protestant on April 08, 2014, 06:49:43 PM
alright thanks for clarifying, but I don't like having words put in my mouth, I have not addressed pantheism, or any other religion or philosophy, I have only talked about my views on Christianity, tbh I'm sure there is truth in all philosophies, however YHWH is the only God i worship
Despite only worshipping YHWH, I like and appreciate other religions, I love Hinduism and think its very interesting, the town I live is about 1/4 hindu, so i have a lot of hindu friends
If there is one thing that you can expect out of this forum and community, is a LOT of resistance to statements and assertions. Expect to be challenged at every turn, sometimes more hostile than other times. I think you've been incredibly cool and level headed so far in regards to your tone and I commend and respect you for it.
One of my very best friends is a Christian in a very fundamental way and we have a lot of respectful and great debates. I love those kinds of interactions and look for opportunities to have them with people.
Let me also point out another thing.
Try to put yourself into the shoes of an atheist or basically any skeptic or non-believer, who may feel that he has been lied to his whole live, or was brought up in a home where he had to lie to himself and those around him about their personal views; a person that could not truly express what they believed (or did not believe), a person that spent their childhood in a community where they had to posture the whole time for fear of rejection. Try to imagine living in a world that was almost entirely against you.
Some had it even worse. They were thrown out of their homes for who they were, cut off by all the people they loved.
So now that maybe they were able to work through all that in adulthood and were healed, suddenly they are faced with the same kinds of views, arguments, and attitudes they've heard their whole lives.
Can you understand now why some atheists are angry? Don't take it personal, try to understand where that anger is coming from (and please never EVER say atheists are angry at god; it won't end well).
Y'all (even Aitm) don't seem anger, from my perspective, I see a lot of frustration
Atheists in America have certainly been persecuted more than I have been and I get frustrated with other Christians too, I dislike being associated with homophobic people.
I have learned a lot in the past 24 hours, and in the future I will be far more sensitive to my Atheist friends
Quote from: Contemporary Protestant on April 08, 2014, 07:05:01 PM
Y'all (even Aitm) don't seem anger, from my perspective, I see a lot of frustration
Atheists in America have certainly been persecuted more than I have been and I get frustrated with other Christians too, I dislike being associated with homophobic people.
I have learned a lot in the past 24 hours, and in the future I will be far more sensitive to my Atheist friends
CP, I like you. I hope that if you really are writing a book, that christans can learn from it. I seriously wish more christians were like you. It's really hard to understand what you are basing our faith off of, because it's not really in line with the bible and instead, you seem like a lot of the christians in my area... the sort of, "yeah. whatever. live and let live. I'm not getting in to other people's business" christan. But I personally don't want to dissect that at this point. I'm just glad you're asking questions. Asking questions is what got most of us to where we are today. And while I don't know if you are eventually going to end up a nonbeliever like we are, I'm glad you're furthering your understanding of other people.
Quote from: Contemporary Protestant on April 08, 2014, 06:05:04 PM
I think its rude for you to say I'm arrogant, I didn't become a Christian until I was a teenager, and I have listened to other philosophies. The other philosophies do not fulfill my spiritual needs
I call you arrogant because you are. Not in the loud "RAR, I'M SUPERIOR!" way, but in the quiet, festering, covert way that carries the air of slippery and dishonest waffling. You allude to these "spiritual needs" that guided your choice but have nothing to do with how the universe is actually arranged. You claim that you didn't "join christianity" until your teenaged years, as if that was proof that you made that decision with a clear, thoughtful and skeptical mind, but I believe this claim to be deceptive if not purposefully so. You might not have
formally joined the fold until your teenaged years, but I bet dollars to doughnuts that you were pumped with christian propaganda for all of your life.
Quote from: Contemporary Protestant on April 08, 2014, 06:40:28 PM
False flag, that may not be the proper name, I've heard it described as attacking as false
assuming someone is wrong before asking any questions, Im not claiming to be logical, I'm just saying don't be illogical if you value being logical
You assume that I haven't read your previous posts, or that your position is defensible from any position. I don't have to explicitly ask questions when the position you clearly state as taking is wrong on its face.
The god character is not real it is merely your own wishful thinking and a reflection of your own selfish desires.
You are entitled to your opinion
Quote from: Contemporary Protestant on April 08, 2014, 01:42:18 PM
I respect what you are saying but I disagree, religion and science can be together, but only if people are well educated
Religion needs science, science doesn't need religion.
Quote from: Gawdzilla Sama on April 09, 2014, 10:25:49 AM
Religion needs science,
Well, at least begrudgingly, it would seem sometimes. :biggrin:
Quote from: SGOS on April 09, 2014, 10:36:38 AM
Well, at least begrudgingly, it would seem sometimes. :biggrin:
They're on the Internet, they're on the cable systems, Joel Osteentatious uses mega-screens to stick his face out at the crowd of suckers who got there in cars controlled by computers from their air conditioned caves with the refrigerators full of beer flown to them on jet aircraft. And they worship a Bronze-age level goat-herder's delusion.
Of course he is! How do you think I sleep well at night after a long day of misogyny, genocide, and baby killing? The answer is warm milk and sweet sweet Jesus.
So this is just a joke thread by some guy?
Alright.
Quote from: frosty on July 03, 2014, 03:01:15 AM
So this is just a joke thread by some guy?
Alright.
Apparently. Love the Avatar, btw.
Gawd is rully reel yall, get wit jeezus
The tooth fairy exists.. She, maybe a he gave me cold hard cash for teeth.
Warning intense violence.
In the name of God I shall kill the abomination that threaten this earth! *sees female atheist, invites her to tea, takes her out, rapes her, and kills her and puts her corpse hanging from abortion clinic* That's one down.
Yeah, I had this conversation on the Landover Babtists Forum. I ask them to prove how the bible is true and they say "It is gods true word!" Then I ask how they know it's gods true word, and they say the bible proves it. INFINITE LOOP!
Quote from: NeverHate on July 08, 2014, 11:22:29 PM
Yeah, I had this conversation on the Landover Babtists Forum. I ask them to prove how the bible is true and they say "It is gods true word!" Then I ask how they know it's gods true word, and they say the bible proves it. INFINITE LOOP!
Oh yeah they-
Wait, Landover Baptists?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=COSeM2EVkDc
You've fallen for the greatest group of Poes in history, bud.
Quote from: NeverHate on July 08, 2014, 11:22:29 PM
Yeah, I had this conversation on the Landover Babtists Forum. I ask them to prove how the bible is true and they say "It is gods true word!" Then I ask how they know it's gods true word, and they say the bible proves it. INFINITE LOOP!
That reminds me of the 'circular wheel of logic' that someone posted here on this forum many months ago. I'm not sure who posted it though, I'll try to find it.
(http://i243.photobucket.com/albums/ff277/josephpalazzo/cr.jpg) (http://s243.photobucket.com/user/josephpalazzo/media/cr.jpg.html)
It's in a book and everyone knows everything ever printed in a book is true. It's against gods law to lie.. Except you of course can be forgiven for it using the magic words...IN A BOOK! :biggrin:
:doh: Dumb atheists! God is real, here is "PROOF": Just once wouldn't you love for someone to simply show you the evidence for God's existence? No arm-twisting. No statements of, "You just have to believe." Well, here is an attempt to candidly offer some of the reasons which suggest that God exists.
But first consider this. When it comes to the possibility of God's existence, the Bible says that there are people who have seen sufficient evidence, but they have suppressed the truth about God.1 On the other hand, for those who want to know God if he is there, he says, "You will seek me and find me; when you seek me with all your heart, I will be found by you." Before you look at the facts surrounding God's existence, ask yourself, If God does exist, would I want to know him? Here then, are some reasons to consider...
1. Does God exist? The complexity of our planet points to a deliberate Designer who not only created our universe, but sustains it today.
Many examples showing God's design could be given, possibly with no end. But here are a few:
The Earth...its size is perfect. The Earth's size and corresponding gravity holds a thin layer of mostly nitrogen and oxygen gases, only extending about 50 miles above the Earth's surface. If Earth were smaller, an atmosphere would be impossible, like the planet Mercury. If Earth were larger, its atmosphere would contain free hydrogen, like Jupiter.3 Earth is the only known planet equipped with an atmosphere of the right mixture of gases to sustain plant, animal and human life.
existence of God The Earth is located the right distance from the sun. Consider the temperature swings we encounter, roughly -30 degrees to +120 degrees. If the Earth were any further away from the sun, we would all freeze. Any closer and we would burn up. Even a fractional variance in the Earth's position to the sun would make life on Earth impossible. The Earth remains this perfect distance from the sun while it rotates around the sun at a speed of nearly 67,000 mph. It is also rotating on its axis, allowing the entire surface of the Earth to be properly warmed and cooled every day.
And our moon is the perfect size and distance from the Earth for its gravitational pull. The moon creates important ocean tides and movement so ocean waters do not stagnate, and yet our massive oceans are restrained from spilling over across the continents.4
Water...colorless, odorless and without taste, and yet no living thing can survive without it. Plants, animals and human beings consist mostly of water (about two-thirds of the human body is water). You'll see why the characteristics of water are uniquely suited to life:
It has an unusually high boiling point and freezing point. Water allows us to live in an environment of fluctuating temperature changes, while keeping our bodies a steady 98.6 degrees.
proof of GodWater is a universal solvent. This property of water means that various chemicals, minerals and nutrients can be carried throughout our bodies and into the smallest blood vessels.5
Water is also chemically neutral. Without affecting the makeup of the substances it carries, water enables food, medicines and minerals to be absorbed and used by the body.
Water has a unique surface tension. Water in plants can therefore flow upward against gravity, bringing life-giving water and nutrients to the top of even the tallest trees.
Water freezes from the top down and floats, so fish can live in the winter.
Ninety-seven percent of the Earth's water is in the oceans. But on our Earth, there is a system designed which removes salt from the water and then distributes that water throughout the globe. Evaporation takes the ocean waters, leaving the salt, and forms clouds which are easily moved by the wind to disperse water over the land, for vegetation, animals and people. It is a system of purification and supply that sustains life on this planet, a system of recycled and reused water.6
The human brain...simultaneously processes an amazing amount of information. Your brain takes in all the colors and objects you see, the temperature around you, the pressure of your feet against the floor, the sounds around you, the dryness of your mouth, even the texture of your keyboard. Your brain holds and processes all your emotions, thoughts and memories. At the same time your brain keeps track of the ongoing functions of your body like your breathing pattern, eyelid movement, hunger and movement of the muscles in your hands.
existence of GodThe human brain processes more than a million messages a second.7 Your brain weighs the importance of all this data, filtering out the relatively unimportant. This screening function is what allows you to focus and operate effectively in your world. The brain functions differently than other organs. There is an intelligence to it, the ability to reason, to produce feelings, to dream and plan, to take action, and relate to other people.
The eye...can distinguish among seven million colors. It has automatic focusing and handles an astounding 1.5 million messages -- simultaneously.8 Evolution focuses on mutations and changes from and within existing organisms. Yet evolution alone does not fully explain the initial source of the eye or the brain -- the start of living organisms from nonliving matter.
2. Does God exist? The universe had a start - what caused it?
Scientists are convinced that our universe began with one enormous explosion of energy and light, which we now call the Big Bang. This was the singular start to everything that exists: the beginning of the universe, the start of space, and even the initial start of time itself.
Astrophysicist Robert Jastrow, a self-described agnostic, stated, "The seed of everything that has happened in the Universe was planted in that first instant; every star, every planet and every living creature in the Universe came into being as a result of events that were set in motion in the moment of the cosmic explosion...The Universe flashed into being, and we cannot find out what caused that to happen."9
Steven Weinberg, a Nobel laureate in Physics, said at the moment of this explosion, "the universe was about a hundred thousands million degrees Centigrade...and the universe was filled with light."10
The universe has not always existed. It had a start...what caused that? Scientists have no explanation for the sudden explosion of light and matter.
3. Does God exist? The universe operates by uniform laws of nature. Why does it?
Much of life may seem uncertain, but look at what we can count on day after day: gravity remains consistent, a hot cup of coffee left on a counter will get cold, the earth rotates in the same 24 hours, and the speed of light doesn't change -- on earth or in galaxies far from us.
How is it that we can identify laws of nature that never change? Why is the universe so orderly, so reliable?
"The greatest scientists have been struck by how strange this is. There is no logical necessity for a universe that obeys rules, let alone one that abides by the rules of mathematics. This astonishment springs from the recognition that the universe doesn't have to behave this way. It is easy to imagine a universe in which conditions change unpredictably from instant to instant, or even a universe in which things pop in and out of existence."11
Richard Feynman, a Nobel Prize winner for quantum electrodynamics, said, "Why nature is mathematical is a mystery...The fact that there are rules at all is a kind of miracle."12
4. Does God exist? The DNA code informs, programs a cell's behavior.
existence of GodAll instruction, all teaching, all training comes with intent. Someone who writes an instruction manual does so with purpose. Did you know that in every cell of our bodies there exists a very detailed instruction code, much like a miniature computer program? As you may know, a computer program is made up of ones and zeros, like this: 110010101011000. The way they are arranged tell the computer program what to do. The DNA code in each of our cells is very similar. It's made up of four chemicals that scientists abbreviate as A, T, G, and C. These are arranged in the human cell like this: CGTGTGACTCGCTCCTGAT and so on. There are three billion of these letters in every human cell!!
Well, just like you can program your phone to beep for specific reasons, DNA instructs the cell. DNA is a three-billion-lettered program telling the cell to act in a certain way. It is a full instruction manual.13
existence of GodWhy is this so amazing? One has to ask....how did this information program wind up in each human cell? These are not just chemicals. These are chemicals that instruct, that code in a very detailed way exactly how the person's body should develop.
Natural, biological causes are completely lacking as an explanation when programmed information is involved. You cannot find instruction, precise information like this, without someone intentionally constructing it.
5. Does God exist? We know God exists because he pursues us. He is constantly initiating and seeking for us to come to him.
I was an atheist at one time. And like many atheists, the issue of people believing in God bothered me greatly. What is it about atheists that we would spend so much time, attention, and energy refuting something that we don't believe even exists?! What causes us to do that? When I was an atheist, I attributed my intentions as caring for those poor, delusional people...to help them realize their hope was completely ill-founded. To be honest, I also had another motive. As I challenged those who believed in God, I was deeply curious to see if they could convince me otherwise. Part of my quest was to become free from the question of God. If I could conclusively prove to believers that they were wrong, then the issue is off the table, and I would be free to go about my life.
proof of GodI didn't realize that the reason the topic of God weighed so heavily on my mind, was because God was pressing the issue. I have come to find out that God wants to be known. He created us with the intention that we would know him. He has surrounded us with evidence of himself and he keeps the question of his existence squarely before us. It was as if I couldn't escape thinking about the possibility of God. In fact, the day I chose to acknowledge God's existence, my prayer began with, "Ok, you win..." It might be that the underlying reason atheists are bothered by people believing in God is because God is actively pursuing them.
I am not the only one who has experienced this. Malcolm Muggeridge, socialist and philosophical author, wrote, "I had a notion that somehow, besides questing, I was being pursued." C.S. Lewis said he remembered, "...night after night, feeling whenever my mind lifted even for a second from my work, the steady, unrelenting approach of Him whom I so earnestly desired not to meet. I gave in, and admitted that God was God, and knelt and prayed: perhaps, that night, the most dejected and reluctant convert in all of England."
Lewis went on to write a book titled, "Surprised by Joy" as a result of knowing God. I too had no expectations other than rightfully admitting God's existence. Yet over the following several months, I became amazed by his love for me.
6. Does God exist? Unlike any other revelation of God, Jesus Christ is the clearest, most specific picture of God revealing himself to us.
Why Jesus? Look throughout the major world religions and you'll find that Buddha, Muhammad, Confucius and Moses all identified themselves as teachers or prophets. None of them ever claimed to be equal to God. Surprisingly, Jesus did. That is what sets Jesus apart from all the others. He said God exists and you're looking at him. Though he talked about his Father in heaven, it was not from the position of separation, but of very close union, unique to all humankind. Jesus said that anyone who had seen Him had seen the Father, anyone who believed in him, believed in the Father.
He said, "I am the light of the world, he who follows me will not walk in darkness, but will have the light of life."14 He claimed attributes belonging only to God: to be able to forgive people of their sin, free them from habits of sin, give people a more abundant life and give them eternal life in heaven. Unlike other teachers who focused people on their words, Jesus pointed people to himself. He did not say, "follow my words and you will find truth." He said, "I am the way, the truth, and the life, no one comes to the Father but through me."15
What proof did Jesus give for claiming to be divine? He did what people can't do. Jesus performed miracles. He healed people...blind, crippled, deaf, even raised a couple of people from the dead. He had power over objects...created food out of thin air, enough to feed crowds of several thousand people. He performed miracles over nature...walked on top of a lake, commanding a raging storm to stop for some friends. People everywhere followed Jesus, because he constantly met their needs, doing the miraculous. He said if you do not want to believe what I'm telling you, you should at least believe in me based on the miracles you're seeing.16
Jesus Christ showed God to be gentle, loving, aware of our self-centeredness and shortcomings, yet deeply wanting a relationship with us. Jesus revealed that although God views us as sinners, worthy of his punishment, his love for us ruled and God came up with a different plan. God himself took on the form of man and accepted the punishment for our sin on our behalf. Sounds ludicrous? Perhaps, but many loving fathers would gladly trade places with their child in a cancer ward if they could. The Bible says that the reason we would love God is because he first loved us.
Jesus died in our place so we could be forgiven. Of all the religions known to humanity, only through Jesus will you see God reaching toward humanity, providing a way for us to have a relationship with him. Jesus proves a divine heart of love, meeting our needs, drawing us to himself. Because of Jesus' death and resurrection, he offers us a new life today. We can be forgiven, fully accepted by God and genuinely loved by God. He says, "I have loved you with an everlasting love, therefore I have continued my faithfulness to you."17 This is God, in action.
Does God exist? If you want to know, investigate Jesus Christ. We're told that "God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life."18
God does not force us to believe in him, though he could. Instead, he has provided sufficient proof of his existence for us to willingly respond to him. The earth's perfect distance from the sun, the unique chemical properties of water, the human brain, DNA, the number of people who attest to knowing God, the gnawing in our hearts and minds to determine if God is there, the willingness for God to be known through Jesus Christ. If you need to know more about Jesus and reasons to believe in him, please see: Beyond Blind Faith.
If you want to begin a relationship with God now, you can.
This is your decision, no coercion here. But if you want to be forgiven by God and come into a relationship with him, you can do so right now by asking him to forgive you and come into your life. Jesus said, "Behold, I stand at the door [of your heart] and knock. He who hears my voice and opens the door, I will come into him [or her]."19 If you want to do this, but aren't sure how to put it into words, this may help: "Jesus, thank you for dying for my sins. You know my life and that I need to be forgiven. I ask you to forgive me right now and come into my life. I want to know you in a real way. Come into my life now. Thank you that you wanted a relationship with me. Amen."
God views your relationship with him as permanent. Referring to all those who believe in him, Jesus Christ said of us, "I know them, and they follow me; and I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish, and no one shall snatch them out of my hand."20
Looking at all these facts, one can conclude that a loving God does exist and can be known in an intimate, personal way.
How could a former atheist be wrong about God? :whistle: :fU: :eek: :rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao: :biggrin2: Solitary :axe: :razz: :pidu:
Quote from: curiouscrab on March 24, 2014, 09:53:00 PM
I really want to see where this goes and laugh at it. Just post your comments and explanations. I'll do all the laughing.
Innocent until proven guilty, I suppose. Am I right? Apply with sprinkles.
Solitary, where did you find that? I'm seriously curious.
Quote from: Sal1981 on July 09, 2014, 03:34:46 PM
Solitary, where did you find that? I'm seriously curious.
I found it here: http://brainhulklogicsmash.blogspot.com/2014/03/six-reasons-to-believe-in-god.html?m=1
And here: http://www.urdubible.net/god-3/#more-4726
But I think Solitary gives his own commentary.
-Nam