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Humanities Section => Philosophy & Rhetoric General Discussion => Topic started by: Damarcus on March 02, 2014, 09:41:29 PM

Title: Survey on the causes of evil.
Post by: Damarcus on March 02, 2014, 09:41:29 PM
So one of my classmates has written up a survey on whether evil is caused by nature or nurture. After filling out the survey I realised that I'm quite interested in the topic as well and curious about other people's opinions. It seems like an interesting topic of discussion.
BTW, this isn't my survey, I didn't write it, though I am fixing the grammatical and spelling errors in the original (or at least, the ones I notice).

QuoteIn addition to answering the questions, it would be great if you could put your age, sex and cultural background at the top of your answer.

The purpose of this survey is to get people's opinions on whether they believe people to be inherently evil, or if evil is a by-product of a person's situation.

1. Do you believe that people are born evil or become evil as a by-product of their environment?

2.When thinking of serial killers/mass murderers, how much consideration should be given to their mental state and should this affect their sentence?

3.Thinking of the Abu Ghraib controversy, the "ring leader" Sgt. Chip Frederik (a guard in Teir 1A - hailed as the worst section of the prison) was a highly respected member of his community and described as a caring and loving person, yet he committed terrible acts of torture and dehumanisation. Why and how do you think this is?

4.Finally, when looking at the lives of gang members, many young people (some still only children) commit crimes such as murder, torture and theft. Do you think these people behave this way due to their environment and the nature of gang life, or because they are bad people?
Title: Re: Survey on the causes of evil.
Post by: Moralnihilist on March 02, 2014, 09:53:53 PM
Frankly I believe it to be both. I base this on absolutely no experience beyond 1 course in psychology 9 years ago.

1. Sociopaths are born, assholes are born and made, religious bigotry is taught. So I would say both.

2. I believe none. But I have no sympathy for the criminally insane.

3. Pressure and missing ones family, combined with being young and the stress of being in a combat zone does wonders to a normally decent human being. But there is the chance he was a closet asshole and being put into a position of unsupervised power allowed his inner asshole to come out.

4. I wouldn't put as much on the environment that they grew up in as the same environment turns out decent caring human beings as well, however, I would not discount it either. That kind of oppressive poverty can lead some into taking desperate actions if they can't see a way out of the situation.
Title: Re: Survey on the causes of evil.
Post by: Sal1981 on March 03, 2014, 04:27:51 AM
QuoteIn addition to answering the questions, it would be great if you could put your age, sex and cultural background at the top of your answer.

The purpose of this survey is to get people's opinions on whether they believe people to be inherently evil, or if evil is a by-product of a person's situation.

1. Do you believe that people are born evil or become evil as a by-product of their environment?
I think both, although I'm inclined to think that only 1/20 are born predisposed to being assholes, given the rate of sociopaths and psychopathy. (BTW, I'm in that 1/20 ... and I consider myself a good person, so), although it being an inclination doesn't mean people become stone-cold assholes. I think someone predisposed to this 1/20 rate will be "triggered" by environmental factors, like alcoholism, drug abuse and other negative environmental factors.

Quote2.When thinking of serial killers/mass murderers, how much consideration should be given to their mental state and should this affect their sentence?
hmm, I think none - I'm against special treatment beyond counting for situational considerations; responsibility has to be counted equally across the board, in my view, when it comes to Law - and no one should be above (or below) the Law, but equal against the Law.

Quote3.Thinking of the Abu Ghraib controversy, the "ring leader" Sgt. Chip Frederik (a guard in Teir 1A - hailed as the worst section of the prison) was a highly respected member of his community and described as a caring and loving person, yet he committed terrible acts of torture and dehumanisation. Why and how do you think this is?
I agree with Moralnihilist on this question, although I would word it differently, here, under normal conditions, his otherwise assholish character was suppressed back home in a structured and law-abiding society, where in Abu Ghraib his true nature (as well as environmental factors such as psychological stress) resulted in "cutting loose" his facade and his all-too-human sociopathic tendencies manifested themselves.

Quote4.Finally, when looking at the lives of gang members, many young people (some still only children) commit crimes such as murder, torture and theft. Do you think these people behave this way due to their environment and the nature of gang life, or because they are bad people?
I think both, although for such young people I think bad environment is more at cause than genetic factors resulting in their abysmal behavior.
Title: Re: Survey on the causes of evil.
Post by: Jmpty on March 03, 2014, 12:09:36 PM
Define evil.
Title: Re: Survey on the causes of evil.
Post by: Moriarty on March 03, 2014, 12:14:30 PM
Quote from: "Jmpty"Define evil.

Humanity.
Title: Re: Survey on the causes of evil.
Post by: SGOS on March 03, 2014, 12:28:44 PM
Quote from: "Damarcus"So one of my classmates has written up a survey on whether evil is caused by nature or nurture.
Human psychology is far to complex to be so black and white.  It's both.  Absolutely both.  If there other possible factors besides nature/nurture, include them too.

Edit:  Well, I don't want to get too carried away.  I wouldn't include the Devil as a possible factor, although others would.  But you include the Devil as a cause of evil, you should include God too.
Title: Re: Survey on the causes of evil.
Post by: Hydra009 on March 03, 2014, 01:18:02 PM
Quote from: "Jmpty"Define evil.
IMHO, it's malicious harm.  (since accident is non-malicious harm)
Title: Re: Survey on the causes of evil.
Post by: AllPurposeAtheist on March 03, 2014, 01:23:40 PM
I've meet people who are probably criminally nuts. Some know what they do while others have no clue they're nuts. My step daughter, schizophrenic and buggy as a loon does things I'm sure she's unaware of and has utterly nothing to gain or lose from it, but though she drives me nuts I can't hold her behavior against her. If she committed criminal acts she would be far from culpable.
I've meet others who use it as a wedge and excuse.  It's not black and white.
Charlie,  a guy I knew many years ago was convicted of 'raping' kids, but those kids, teenagers had multiple convictions for prostitution. When questioned which jail he was in he didn't have a clue what city he was in much less jail and unaware of charges against him.
I've known others who seem to delight in causing other people harm and stealing and lying to them.  
There are people who are unaware the difference between right and wrong and some who know, but don't care. There's a distinct difference.
Evil in my mind is when someone is well aware of the action and justifies it. True criminally insane aren't aware and usually won't try to justify it as they don't realize what they might have done is even wrong.
Title: Re: Survey on the causes of evil.
Post by: Hydra009 on March 03, 2014, 01:38:50 PM
Quote from: "Damarcus"3.Thinking of the Abu Ghraib controversy, the "ring leader" Sgt. Chip Frederik (a guard in Teir 1A - hailed as the worst section of the prison) was a highly respected member of his community and described as a caring and loving person, yet he committed terrible acts of torture and dehumanisation. Why and how do you think this is?

4.Finally, when looking at the lives of gang members, many young people (some still only children) commit crimes such as murder, torture and theft. Do you think these people behave this way due to their environment and the nature of gang life, or because they are bad people?
Everyone else had pretty solid answers to the first two, so I won't repeat their replies.

3.  This problem only arises when one labels people themselves as good or evil, rather than their actions.  People who do evil (malicious harm) typically do not harm everyone they meet.  Rather, they do evil selectively, to targeted people who cannot defend themselves or retaliate and in situations when they feel reasonably assured that they can get away with it.  Abu Ghraib was just such a situation.

4.  Probably a little of column A and a little of column B.  These people, for whatever reason, find themselves attracted to the prospect of joining a gang and then find themselves pressured to obey gang norms, which often involves crime and sometimes involves inflicting physical harm.  And poverty tends to be a pretty big enticer for criminal activity.  They're not dealing drugs for charity, after all.
Title: Re: Survey on the causes of evil.
Post by: darsenfeld on March 03, 2014, 02:27:44 PM
Evil doesn't really exist.
Title: Re: Survey on the causes of evil.
Post by: camouflage on March 05, 2014, 08:34:46 AM
Quote from: "darsenfeld"Evil doesn't really exist.

In a way I agree but would you care to explain more for these kind folks?
Title: Re: Survey on the causes of evil.
Post by: darsenfeld on March 06, 2014, 10:08:04 AM
Anything goes in life.
Title: Re: Survey on the causes of evil.
Post by: Moralnihilist on March 06, 2014, 12:30:45 PM
Quote from: "darsenfeld"Anything goes in life.

Then why don't you?
Title: Re: Survey on the causes of evil.
Post by: josephpalazzo on March 06, 2014, 12:35:49 PM
Evil, like morality, the rules of chess, the alphabet and the tong ( :P ), are all human constructs.
Title: Re: Survey on the causes of evil.
Post by: stromboli on March 06, 2014, 12:41:31 PM
Evil is an inherently religious concept. Some things described as evil are not. Real evil is the deliberate act of harming someone for no purpose other than to cause harm.
Title: Re: Survey on the causes of evil.
Post by: josephpalazzo on March 06, 2014, 02:53:16 PM
Quote from: "stromboli"Evil is an inherently religious concept. Some things described as evil are not. Real evil is the deliberate act of harming someone for no purpose other than to cause harm.


still a human construct...
Title: Re: Survey on the causes of evil.
Post by: Jmpty on March 06, 2014, 03:24:45 PM
Perspective is the only cause of the perception of something as evil.
Title: Re: Survey on the causes of evil.
Post by: camouflage on March 06, 2014, 11:49:03 PM
In the light of everyone's response.. I want to ask one question.

Are we restricting or suppressing some inherent parts of human nature by punishing what we consider to be evil with the help of law?
Title: Re: Survey on the causes of evil.
Post by: Plu on March 07, 2014, 04:01:49 AM
QuoteAre we restricting or suppressing some inherent parts of human nature by punishing what we consider to be evil with the help of law?

Probably, yes. And a few more not by law but social acceptance, and more of those constructs. Not all (read: barely any) of our natural traits were designed to help us live in relative harmony in a society numbering the millions. So it takes a bit of work.
Title: Survey on the causes of evil.
Post by: Shol'va on March 07, 2014, 12:08:55 PM
Nationalism is not inherently evil. While others listed (sexism, racism) have explicit implications of a basis for discrimination, hate, etc, nationalism can have different meanings:

1. patriotic feeling, principles, or efforts.

2. an extreme form of this, esp. marked by a feeling of superiority over other countries.

3. advocacy of political independence for a particular country

1 and 3 are fine, while 2 is not. Wars of independence from oppressors begin with nationalist feelings.

So it's not that somebody is a nationalist that makes it negative, but what they mean by it and what they do with it.

And I don't think religion is inherently evil either. It depends on what the tenets of that religion dictate and the distinction between the creeds and the actions of its followers.