I'm watching a show where a Catholic nun is interviewing a man. The exchange goes like so:
Are you a Catholic?
No.
Protestant?
No.
Jewish then?
No.
Muslim?
No.
Well, what do you believe in then?
Nothing really.
It got me thinking. Depending on the context, "What do you believe in?" can be strange question. As an atheist, if I ask the question here, I imagine it could be somewhat thought provoking: "Oh gee. How much time to you have?" Obviously, we believe lots of things, too many to list them all.
But I think the question in most contexts, implies something more specific, along the lines of, "What religion do you believe in?" It's sort of begging the question. "I don't believe in anything," is taken as a perplexing and unacceptable answer because you must believe in something like religion.
If you say, "I believe the sun will rise tomorrow," it's not the kind of answer that is being sought. It sounds flippant, like you're trying to be a jerk. I almost feel guilty about not having some nonsensical rubbish I can point to as a belief. You're supposed to believe in something that's kind of quirky and without evidence, something you believe with your heart, not with your brain, some woo thing.
I suppose an atheist could respond with a philosophy/world view, because that is what the majority of religion actually is.
I merely tell them I don't believe there is any sort of supernatural bullshit and if that's not good enough for them then good old handy piss off works. :)
Quote from: "AllPurposeAtheist"I merely tell them I don't believe there is any sort of supernatural bullshit and if that's not good enough for them then good old handy piss off works. :)
The person would have to get extremely rude for me to go that far, although, "What do you believe in?" sounds kind of rude to begin with. Maybe they deserve your response, although then they would just say to themselves, "Typical atheist! I was just asking a straight forward question (even if it does reek of an obvious ulterior motive)."
I have to admit that I don't like the question. I find it offensive.
Science.
I guess by 'believe' they mean 'assume to be true without evidence'. When people talk about their 'beliefs' they're usually talking about some supernatural shit. I guess you'd need to counter their question by getting them to clarify what their definition of a belief is, otherwise the question could become unintelligible. A lot of religious people ask really open questions like that and don't like to be boxed in by questions that leave little wiggle room. :-k
Quote from: "Youssuf Ramadan"I guess you'd need to counter their question by getting them to clarify what their definition of a belief is,
That's reasonable, I think. That's why the question bothers me. It seems to have something that's implied.
Well, I DO believe in comfortable shoes and pants that don't ride to high in the crotch. :-k
Quote from: "stromboli"Science.
I believe in science as a process, but I don't believe the entire body of the content. For example, I can't say I believe in string theory. It could be true, and it's interesting, but I haven't heard enough convincing evidence to believe it. Not at this point, anyway.
Quote from: "AllPurposeAtheist"Well, I DO believe in comfortable shoes and pants that don't ride to high in the crotch. :-k
So you say. :-D But that's more of an approval than a belief.
I believe serpents can't talk, a man won't survive in the belly of a whale for three days, and people don't walk around and talk to old friends after they die. How's that?
To be honest 99.99% who ask what I believe in don't really deserve a straight answer. They're trying to set me up and I have that little part of my psyche that just has to disappoint them. They set me up with a bullshit question & I give em a bullshit answer. Fair is fair, huh?
Quote from: "SGOS"Quote from: "AllPurposeAtheist"Well, I DO believe in comfortable shoes and pants that don't ride to high in the crotch. :-k
So you say. :-D But that's more of an approval than a belief.
I believe serpents can't talk, a man won't survive in the belly of a whale for three days, and people don't walk around and talk to old friends after they die. How's that?
Someone might, if crazy enough worship my loose fitting crotch and personally I'm eager to meet them. =D>
Biology, physics and chemistry.
Quote from: "SGOS"I'm watching a show where a Catholic nun is interviewing a man. The exchange goes like so:
Are you a Catholic?
No.
Protestant?
No.
Jewish then?
No.
Muslim?
No.
Well, what do you believe in then?
Nothing really.
It got me thinking. Depending on the context, "What do you believe in?" can be strange question. As an atheist, if I ask the question here, I imagine it could be somewhat thought provoking: "Oh gee. How much time to you have?" Obviously, we believe lots of things, too many to list them all.
But I think the question in most contexts, implies something more specific, along the lines of, "What religion do you believe in?" It's sort of begging the question. "I don't believe in anything," is taken as a perplexing and unacceptable answer because you must believe in something like religion.
If you say, "I believe the sun will rise tomorrow," it's not the kind of answer that is being sought. It sounds flippant, like you're trying to be a jerk. I almost feel guilty about not having some nonsensical rubbish I can point to as a belief. You're supposed to believe in something that's kind of quirky and without evidence, something you believe with your heart, not with your brain, some woo thing.
I run into this all the time. One of my neighbors refused to believe that I was an atheist. Someone told her and she said " Oh no he isn't. No one is an atheist."
I think that it is presumptuous to ask what someone believes in. What someone is really asking is "Are you a Christian like me and if so are you the right kind of Christian?" The thing is, just asking the question is a put down. It is a way to be prejudice and attempt to be superior.
"What do you believe in" is a religious question.
Where as you can believe a lot of things.
I had to do a "I believe" speech years ago in an ethics class.
Much of it was bullshit like this.
guy1: I believe that my car ran out of gas.
guy2: What make you believe that?
guy1: I believe that the gas gauge is working and it is past the red mark saying empty.
guy2: I believe you may be right.
I had 5 minutes of senseless "I believe" babel like this as my speech. The teacher wasn't going to give me credit for it because he told me that I prepared and gave my speech out of context of what the assignment was about. I told him that all he wanted to hear was the same spew of what the others in the class were giving about their religious belief and what they felt was right and wrong. I told him that I gave the speech from a different point of view based off of reality of things. He did give me credit for it but he wasn't happy about it, saying I believe you could have gave a better speech about reality.
Sometimes a simple, "I'm a baby eating godless heathen and don't believe in shit!" works. I just won't get into these silly debates with them because nothing I can tell them will satisfy the insane craving they have to try to pin me down to the ultimate goal of 'but what IF...?'.. Sorry godbrothers n sistahs.. I'm not biting.
I believe that two hands working for change is better than any amount of hands praying.
I believe that curiosity, tempered with science and a sense of humanity lead the way to a better world.
I believe that we can make heaven or hell on Earth depending on our choices.
I believe that we have a duty to our species to expose and rebuke those who hurt others for personal gain.
Why, when I believe this, do I need a god to control my life? Why would I need or want a god that tells me to be content with the way the world is? A god who would instruct me to never question things?
I believe I'll have another beer.
I believe I'm ready for summertime. I believe winter, though necessary still sucks. :-k
[youtube:2z1uxtzs]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sRYNYb30nxU[/youtube:2z1uxtzs]
I think I've done this joke already...
Quote from: "Atheon"I believe I'll have another beer.
I believe you will.
I'd probably say something along the lines of: "I believe in lots of stuff. Any stuff I have to take as working as it should, without specifically knowing how it works, I must take on faith that it works."
Or maybe: "I believe in the goodness of people, that people are essentially good and well-meaning."
Of course, what I really mean with such an exchange is that I have expectations that something I don't know extensively about to work as expected. And a specific, rather empty, proposition about the behavior of people.
This really renders the word "belief" useless though. What do people even mean when they say that they "believe" in something, or that they have "faith"?
Aren't both those terms merely placeholders for ignorance?
Quote from: "SGOS"I'm watching a show where a Catholic nun is interviewing a man. The exchange goes like so:
Are you a Catholic?
No.
Protestant?
No.
Jewish then?
No.
Muslim?
No.
Well, what do you believe in then?
I'm Humanist.
One reason I prefer saying I'm Humanist as opposed to atheist is because it describes what I do believe rather than what I don't.
Quote from: "SGOS""Well, what do you believe in then?
Nothing really."
There are a lot of people who believe in belief, and don't necessarily think about the content of their local belief system. Let's face it - religion is as much about geography as anything else. You can bet your ass that the fire-breathing Christian fundie preacher would be an Imam if they had been born in Yemen or suchlike... and vice versa.
Quote from: "Sal1981"I'd probably say something along the lines of: "I believe in lots of stuff. Any stuff I have to take as working as it should, without specifically knowing how it works, I must take on faith that it works."
Or maybe: "I believe in the goodness of people, that people are essentially good and well-meaning."
Of course, what I really mean with such an exchange is that I have expectations that something I don't know extensively about to work as expected. And a specific, rather empty, proposition about the behavior of people.
This really renders the word "belief" useless though. What do people even mean when they say that they "believe" in something, or that they have "faith"?
Aren't both those terms merely placeholders for ignorance?
They are, but in common written or spoken communication "I believe" is often (perhaps usually) an honest reporting of what a person believes, with or without evidence. This does not have to address what a person knows, nor is it a seal of truth because, well, it's a belief. Faith takes it a step further. It's admission of lack of evidence. Here, the ice is much thinner than belief based on evidence.
I see the difference as one of legitimate or logical "rights to confidence". It's the difference between a more scientific thought process and religious thinking. In science, even with high levels of confidence, there is the possibility of change (that's built into the philosophy). Not so much in religion. At least religion has a track record of being much more resistant to change. It does, but it seems to be based more on the overall popularity of an issue, rather than on overwhelming evidence. It's almost as if when religion finally "gets it right", it's still based on a fallacy. At least is appears that way to me.
That brings up "knowing". "Knowing" means different things to different people. I think what it usually means is "I know what I've learned." It's not necessarily a seal of truth.
This all off the top of my head as it relates to the topic. It's not written in stone, but more of a first reflection on my part.
Quote from: "GSOgymrat"I'm Humanist.
One reason I prefer saying I'm Humanist as opposed to atheist is because it describes what I do believe rather than what I don't.
I am too. It's a philosophy, and as such, is distantly related some aspects of religion, with the major difference that you haven't gone off the deep end. :-D
Quote from: "Youssuf Ramadan"Quote from: "SGOS""Well, what do you believe in then?
Nothing really."
There are a lot of people who believe in belief, and don't necessarily think about the content of their local belief system. Let's face it - religion is as much about geography as anything else. You can bet your ass that the fire-breathing Christian fundie preacher would be an Imam if they had been born in Yemen or suchlike... and vice versa.
I agree. That's a good way to phrase it.
Not that I want to be a contrarian but shouldn't there be a thread entitled What Don't You Believe In? :twisted:
Quote from: "josephpalazzo"Not that I want to be a contrarian but shouldn't there be a thread entitled What Don't You Believe In? :twisted:
Build one, and they will come.
I believe that people are free to define their own lives without reference to woo, or appeal to supernatural authority.
Quote from: "josephpalazzo"Not that I want to be a contrarian but shouldn't there be a thread entitled What Don't You Believe In? :twisted:
It would be a bloody big one... :lol:
I believe that anything that is said not directly to me by someone I trust is an attempt to manipulate me into thinking, doing, buying or believing something that primarily benefits the speaker.
I hope that sentence parses correctly, or it'll sound really weird :roll:
Well:
- Science
- The falseness of religion
- Human rights/universal humanity
- Libertarianism
- The legalisation of all drugs
- Market economics
- The abolition of liberal democracy
- The abolition of firearms
- Social metrication
- That sex is not inherently bad
- Psychology has merits, but is tainted by subjective beliefs and the need for some in society to use it as a vehicle for change/re-engineering
I have lots of beliefs.
The most important one is my belief in our ability to question things. (Okay. At least some of us do that)
And yeah.. Batman too!!