I apologize for any grammatical errors. It's been a long night...
I'm in my late 20's and I come from an extremely religious Pentecostal upbringing. Anyone who comes from a charismatic christian background knows it's the most emotionally manipulative of all. I've never been baptized or spoken in tongues but I've always felt the overwhelming pressure to raise my hands and act the part.
Problem is, I've played the part too well and my family have no idea how fake and uncomfortable I've always felt.
I'm going through a difficult journey of confronting myself and realizing the the voice of "God" in my head when I pray and that feel good sensation I get when there's a worship song playing are all manifestations of my imagination. I feel terrified and guilty for feeling these things. I've been listening to Hitchens' debates & the Atheist Experience on YouTube and I know in my mind that what they're saying is true but I feel literally enslaved by my indoctrination. I'm terrified. What if I'm wrong and the Christians are right and I go to hell? Obviously this is illogical but it still hold such a massive power over me that I can't shake it. I feel like Christianity has completely robbed me of the freedom my friends who grew up in secular households have.
Obviously there are a lot of issues here but the most pressing is that my parent's are becoming more and more demanding of me since I recently moved out of the house. They question me when they don't see me in church and the whole thing has made me feel more distant from them. I know if I tell them they'll literally die of shock and be miserable for ever. This is so true to them that they will never accept it. My entire family is a bunch of tongue speaking devout Islanders (Caribbean) WTF is a girl to do?
Welcome!
Quote from: "Lisa360"I'm terrified. What if I'm wrong and the Christians are right and I go to hell?
If you don't believe and there is a god, that god must be very inconspicuous and must not really care if you believe or not. If it turns out we are all wrong and we are being judged, I would certainly think god would appreciate our honesty. As long as you are a good person, it doesn't matter if you don't have faith.
Enjoy your stay in heathenland! :-D
Well that is quite a pickle, and I may not be the best person to give advice seeing as I've only ever been an atheist. I have, however, dealt with anxiety, so I can at least relate on that front.
In my case, I've always found it helpful to find someone to talk to. I live in Washington State, so other atheists aren't hard to come by, but I don't know if that's the case for you. If it isn't, coming to a site like this is also helpful, if perhaps not so much as a face-to-face chat. Talking about your fears, no matter how irrational, is the best first step in overcoming them. You clearly know that your fears are irrational, judging from your post, so you just need to make that next leap toward conversation about them.
As far as your parents go, if you're financially independent I would just go ahead and tell them. It may shock them as you've said, but it's ultimately better to be completely frank with your folks instead of constantly hiding what you really think. It would be a huge weight off your chest, if nothing else. (If you are not financially independent, you'll have to keep it to yourself, even if that becomes psychologically damaging in the long term. I've heard too many horror stories to recommend otherwise.) Be prepared for backlash, though, and don't try to have a deep conversation about it unless you're able to go in with a steel resolve: A confrontation with deeply religious family members, especially your parents, is going to get emotional very quickly, and it's pretty much required that you have your poker face on the entire way through.
I hope that helps.
Thank you so much for your response. Unfortunately the atheist well near me looks pretty dry. But maybe not. I'm open to connecting with more like minded folks.
It's a weight off my shoulder to even discover this online community and read people's experiences here.
As for finance. I'm as financially independent as a college grad, loan paying 20 something in an entry level position could be. I don't depend on my parents for anything however I always fear that I may need to move back in with them at any given moment. But that just comes with the territory of being newly independent. I do realize that I'm going to have to put on my big girl panties and come out eventually. I see them getting more and more anxious about my soul the more I stay passive and I really just want to put an end to everyone's anxiety, including my own.
Quote from: "Lisa360"Thank you so much for your response. Unfortunately the atheist well near me looks pretty dry. But maybe not. I'm open to connecting with more like minded folks.
It's a weight off my shoulder to even discover this online community and read people's experiences here.
Well, you have us here on the forum for you. I wish I had some way to relate and help, but like Hijiri in Washington state, I'm in North Jersey and strict christians aren't as common. But I bet some other members should be able to have a better feel from what you are going through and be able to give some relate-able advice!
Quote from: "PickelledEggs"Welcome!
Quote from: "Lisa360"I'm terrified. What if I'm wrong and the Christians are right and I go to hell?
If you don't believe and there is a god, that god must be very inconspicuous and must not really care if you believe or not. If it turns out we are all wrong and we are being judged, I would certainly think god would appreciate our honesty. As long as you are a good person, it doesn't matter if you don't have faith.
Enjoy your stay in heathenland! :-D
Lol Here's how it would go:
Me: Oh shit God, you're real
God: Yep. It's judgment time, bitches!
Me: Yeah...um...I know I wasn't a christian and all but at least I kept it real, eh? What do ya say?
God: Your soul is required in HELL!
Okay obviously I have an imagination...OBVIOUSLY. But you get the point.
And to Christians they don't care about being a good person. They literally only care about being good Christians. This is one of the many things that turned me off to it. If I would call someone a "good person" everyone would scoff at me as If I'd dropped the N-bomb. Like *Gasp* "How uncouth. That's something an atheist would say".
AtheistMoFo, like Hijiri Byakuren, was not brought up in a theist environment, so it is difficult to feel the pain of your situation from a first-hand point of view. But hey, it kind of sounds like you are putting us on. Late 20s and still not sure if Santa is real?
So what if all of us are wrong and the christians are right. Or maybe the mulsims are right. or maybe the jews. or maybe the catholics, or the wicans, or pagans, or voodoo doeers. You can't be 'em all!
Like PicklledEggs says, if some gods or goddesses really do exist, whether catholic or holocaust or christion or whatever the fuck kind of gods/goddesses they are, wouldn't they be more likely to judge you by your content rather than how many different "tounges" you speak?
When in doubt, drop back five yards and bunt. or punt. or
Quote from: "AtheistMoFo"AtheistMoFo, like Hijiri Byakuren, was not brought up in a theist environment, so it is difficult to feel the pain of your situation from a first-hand point of view. But hey, it kind of sounds like you are putting us on. Late 20s and still not sure if Santa is real?
So what if all of us are wrong and the christians are right. Or maybe the mulsims are right. or maybe the jews. or maybe the catholics, or the wicans, or pagans, or voodoo doeers. You can't be 'em all!
Like PicklledEggs says, if some gods or goddesses really do exist, whether catholic or holocaust or christion or whatever the fuck kind of gods/goddesses they are, wouldn't they be more likely to judge you by your content rather than how many different "tounges" you speak?
When in doubt, drop back five yards and bunt. or punt. or
AtheistMoFo there's no need to be condescending. I understand I'm putting myself out there to people who don't share my background but I was hoping someone on here could relate. Religion and believing in Santa may be the same to you but to the vast majority of people that's their reality. You should be extremely glad you don't have any mind control bullshit to overcome, not judgmental of others. I envy you. That's nice...but leave the superiority complex for another post.
As for if atheist are wrong, I never had to ask that as a Christian. Christians believe they're the only one's who are right so why question what if you're wrong, right? It's them vs. everyone else. I guess to put it in terms you might understand what if I held up my fists and said, one of these holds a million dollars and the other one holds (insert terrible thing), you pick one, but hesitate before the answer is revealed. What if the prize is in the other hand? That's basically what I meant. But whatever obviously this is moot.
Quote from: "Lisa360"Me: Oh shit God, you're real
God: Yep. It's judgment time, bitches!
:rollin:
Think of it this way. At least you know you're not praying to the WRONG god, if there is one. :lol:
If you were praying to Yahweh and really we were all supposed to be praying to Assur, you're still going to burn. And NO ONE believes in Assyrian mythology anymore. So if ancient Assyrians were right we're all screwed anyway.... although, I'm not sure about their policy of non-belief... we might be fine haha.
the main thing is dealing with your family. don't worry about what an imaginary friend is going to do to you.
Quote from: "PickelledEggs"Quote from: "Lisa360"Me: Oh shit God, you're real
God: Yep. It's judgment time, bitches!
:rollin:
Think of it this way. At least you know you're not praying to the WRONG god, if there is one. :lol:
If you were praying to Yahweh and really we were all supposed to be praying to Assur, you're still going to burn. And NO ONE believes in Assyrian mythology anymore. So if ancient Assyrians were right we're all screwed anyway.... although, I'm not sure about their policy of non-belief... we might be fine haha.
the main thing is dealing with your family. don't worry about what an imaginary friend is going to do to you.
Made me think of this for some reason:
[youtube:2qx8eymu]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=36uAoe8e2dY[/youtube:2qx8eymu]
Welcome. I left the Mormon church in 1992 and silly me, joined a Pentecostal church. That whole speaking in tongues thing got me weirded out, quite frankly. I understand your situation, seriously. Religion is ingrained deep and the coming out part is hard. You have been taught something so long that the idea of it not being true is very hard to absorb, that your life to a large extent is based on a lie.
We run the gamut here, people like myself who were religious for most of their lives, others who never were involved. You will get all manner of responses. But stick around, you'll get an education. And don't be afraid to ask questions. That is why we are here.
Quote from: "stromboli"But stick around, you'll get an education.
Or a thrashing, depending on what mood some of the members are in. But mostly an education, yes. :lol:
Quote from: "Hijiri Byakuren"Quote from: "stromboli"But stick around, you'll get an education.
Or a thrashing, depending on what mood some of the members are in. But mostly an education, yes. :lol:
There is a combative atmosphere at times, yeah. A thickening of the skin can be useful.
Hello! I was in a situation much like yours growing up, though I didn't realize how bad it was until my Catholic family moved in with my gun-toting Jehovahs' Witnesses relatives. My advice? Go naturalist. Spend some time getting to know the inner workings and majesty of nature. There is plenty of secular options for the study, and if your family asks, and you're still nervous/worried, tell them that you're "getting in touch with God through his works in nature". That should buy you some time to come up with a more effective plan for dealing with them.
As for the anxiety itself, I understand how nerve racking it can be, as do many of the others on the forums. It helps to think of it like this: if there is a God, and he is petty enough to doom you for mere doubts and intelligent thought, than he is most likely not worthy of our worship, and might not be as powerful as we think if he's really that self-conscious.
I'm not going to pretend I know what you are going through, but I had a somewhat analogous situation. I was raised Seventh Day Adventist--even went to SDA schools. Seemed like, not just my family, but everyone I knew was SDA. In high school I started a pre-baptizmal class and realized that I did not actually believe what I was learning. It took me years (close to a decade, really) to eventually work out that I was actually an atheist. I'm a bit embarrassed to that say I spent a good portion of that early time trying to "fix" my doubts. When something has had your entire formative years to get its claws into you, it is unrealistic to expect to shake loose overnight. Even several years after I was knowingly an atheist I would still occasionally catch myself mid-prayer, just out of old habit.
It seems to me that, besides your old faith still having a redoubt or two, your major conflict is between the love you have of your parents (not wanting to cause them pain, still wanting to say on good terms with them) and the desire to be true to who you are now (please, correct me if I'm wrong). This is a tricky situation and one that no one is in a position to judge except you.
However, I'm going to offer a word of caution: when you tell someone, be prepared for others to know, even if you hope they don't yet. The first time I say "I'm an atheist" to other people was when it came up in conversation with my sister, her husband and one mutual friend. I had reached the point where I felt I couldn't lie about who I was, but wanted to choose when and how I told people. Unfortunately, I did not really get that change as my sister started telling others I was an atheist (I happened to over hear her personally tell others on 3 occasions and others besides ended up knowing before I could tell them--including people who, frankly, had no business knowing my personal life). Now, I don't know that anything similar will happen with you (I certainly hope it does not), but it is something you should (and probably have) already considered.
One other piece of advice I'd give you is, consider looking for someone close to you with chink in their armor, so to speak, and starting with them. Maybe you have an uncle who is too broad minded/liberal about religion or a father who likes ideas, even heretical ones (I lucked out with both; I thank their Canadian boyhoods). Don't just blurt out "I'm an atheist", but casually mention strange things in religion (especially OTHER religions; it's always easier to see the speck in your brother's eye). With my father I spent months (turning to years) beating around the bush. Lots of short conversations. Islam inspires terrorist; what Imam does the Irish Republican Army follow? Felling him out, so to speak. Eventually I could talk to him about atheist things and fell like he listens and understands. I managed to get him to read Letter to a Christian Nation--his response was, in part, "there is nothing in this book that he is wrong about"--so then I got him started on Why People Believe Weird Things. When I started I only expected to get half this far with him, but I really lucked out. Hopefully you will too. (I have a de facto "don't talk about it" rule with my mother, and never know when I'll hit a wall with my sister--one particular time an off hand comment by me drew a response of "we don't criticize people's religion in this house" from her right after she had spent 90 minutes complaining to me about "Republicans forcing their religion into my uterus" :???: ).
Wow, this got to be a lot more about me than I had intended, but I hope there was even a word in there that you find helpful or encouraging. Just remember, we're all not praying for you :wink: And with that (failed) attempt at humor--and an eye on the retreating hour--I 'm off to [s:34vtfulm]serf the net for the next two hours, pretending I'm not as tired as I am[/s:34vtfulm] bed
Hello Lisa! Welcome to the dark side.
As for your doubts go spend some time learning about the origins and history of the Abrahamic religions in general and Christianity in particular. Once you have figured out that much of what you have been taught was borrowed from earlier belief systems, just flat made up or that we don't have any real ideas who wrote it or when it ought to go a long way towards alleviating your fears. If that doesn't work just try reading the Bible from front to back starting with Genesis. At the very least that should convince you that even if Yahweh is your creator the vindictive piece of shit is worthy of your admiration much less your worship.
Sounds like you've found the courage to ask one of the most powerful questions there is, one that most humans never dare ask for fear of the answer, but one they should be asking themselves every step along the journey of life. And you've come here looking for the answer to that question, but in the end, you'll have to find it for yourself.
"What if I'm wrong?"
Ah yes, what if :) Welcome to the forums.
Welcome to the forums.
If my only reason for believing is that not believing might be wrong, he/she/god will know that, so I'm screwed anyhow. What an aszhole god for making me a nonbeliever!
Welcome to the forums, and good luck on your new journey to freedom. Let go of the fear... it was put into you by others, and you have the power to eliminate it.
Being atheist is perfectly normal and nothing to be afraid of.
Welcome to the forums
Welcome to the forum
And as some have said; were here to help you, whether that's through listening to your vents, offering advice or even cracking bad jokes just to make you smile a little more
We're here to help!
I read the title and suddenly felt dirty and germy.... :-k
Quote from: "Plu"Sounds like you've found the courage to ask one of the most powerful questions there is, "What if I'm wrong?"
The courage to ask that question is important. The ability to answer it may not be possible.
My most important question has no answer. The question that should be asked first, is, "Does any god exist?" If he does, and if he's the Christian god, it would certainly have important implications for us all. But I could never answer that question by observing my environment. Even going by those powerful but unreliable emotional experiences that devout Christians use to shore up their faith, no one can offer a proof. There is nothing out there that suggests such a being exists. There's arguments, bla, bla, bla, but not a shred of proof.
Now for a being with supposedly awesome powers, one who has spent an eternity (up until 2000 years ago, anyway) fashioning a profusion of unbelievable miracles that defy reason and the laws of physics, why can't he just appear in front of me and do a simple card trick or something?
Nope, nothing to answer this most important question of existence, nothing that would lend some support to any of those ridiculous Bible episodes, where walls crumble at the sounding of horns, seas part, and men kill off their first born to please a loving god. And how about the one about the guy that was swallowed by a fish? Such stories would make a reasonable person doubt. Although an unreasonable person could believe them in a flash.
Why do Christians believe these things, when they would ignore a street person claiming to have had similar visions from God? Neither the Bible or the raving street person is more believable than the other.
If god is real, he must be one unstable unpredictable crazy ass suffering from an advanced case of arrested development and living the fantasy of uncivilized barbarians. It takes a lot of faith to be a Christian. It has to, because the stories they are required to believe are such childish sounding fantasy.
So does this being exist? I can imagine it, yes, but actually believing that stuff is so far out of my reach, that I'm not going to spend my life worrying about it. And if that first question cannot be answered, the questions that follow, what he wants, and what he will do to us become a waste of time. Let's ask ourselves if he exists before we get ahead of ourselves.
Lisa, think about it. If xtians are right and the big spook is real and really wants you to worship 'him' he really screwed up the message with books that make little if any sense, they all contradict each other, no way to know which is right and then picks the absolute worse messengers, usually really goofy fucks and blatant phonies. On top of that there's not even any way to determine which god, who by the way is always invisible, always silent and seemingly delights in tormenting us to believe in.
I'd demand at least an explanation from king spook or just ignore it, get on with your life and not worry what anyone else thinks.
Yeah, I started asking questions like why is it always god's punishment when something bad happens, yet the results of medical advancements and scientific advances that lead to medical cures that are man made are "proof" of god's healing.
Welcome, Lisa. I used to be a Pentecostal when I was young. I lived away from my family when I deconverted, so I wasn't under the scrutiny you're suffering. I didn't actually become an atheist until I was in my mid-thirties, and it was about 10 more years before I told my dad (it took that long for someone on that side of the family to ask). I only have to deal with the fallout from that for a few days a year when I visit them. Dad figures I was baptized right so I'll be able to see the anti-Christ for what it is and join the Tribulation Force or somesuch. Whatever makes him feel better, I guess.
It's no fun to live a lie, but it's not fun to be harassed, either. I wish I could advise you, but no one here knows your family better than you, or knows how much it bothers you to pretend to believe.
Quote from: "Mister Agenda"Welcome, Lisa. I used to be a Pentecostal when I was young. I lived away from my family when I deconverted, so I wasn't under the scrutiny you're suffering. I didn't actually become an atheist until I was in my mid-thirties, and it was about 10 more years before I told my dad (it took that long for someone on that side of the family to ask). I only have to deal with the fallout from that for a few days a year when I visit them. Dad figures I was baptized right so I'll be able to see the anti-Christ for what it is and join the Tribulation Force or somesuch. Whatever makes him feel better, I guess.
It's no fun to live a lie, but it's not fun to be harassed, either. I wish I could advise you, but no one here knows your family better than you, or knows how much it bothers you to pretend to believe.
I really appreciate the response from someone with a similar background. Sometimes I wish I could move away. It was much easier when I was away at collage to go under the radar. As someone who took the steps to become baptized you must have been really into it at one point right? What was the turning point, if you don't mind sharing. You're right on all points. For the first time I really feed what gays in the closet are going through lol. Only, at least noone will kick my ass for it...hopefully. I think I just need to strengthen my resolve first and have a clear answer for the questions and attacks I know I'll receive.
Thanks again!
:-D Welcome aboard Lisa360! Smile! There is no hell to fear accept other delusional and insane religious people. :shock: :popcorn: Solitary
Quote from: "AllPurposeAtheist"Lisa, think about it. If xtians are right and the big spook is real and really wants you to worship 'him' he really screwed up the message with books that make little if any sense, they all contradict each other, no way to know which is right and then picks the absolute worse messengers, usually really goofy fucks and blatant phonies. On top of that there's not even any way to determine which god, who by the way is always invisible, always silent and seemingly delights in tormenting us to believe in.
I'd demand at least an explanation from king spook or just ignore it, get on with your life and not worry what anyone else thinks.
=D>
Best answer so far I think.
Yeah, like many of you mentioned it doesn't make a lick of sense but the counter-programming still needs to stick. It's as difficult for Christians to make the change to reason as atheists to convert probably. Either way your brain would need to totally shift the way it thinks. When I think about it, it just makes me pissed upset that I wasted so much of my money (tithing and all) and time subscribing to something that I always knew in my heart wasn't real and yet felt afraid to question it or even think things through. It's like a put a road block in my mind to keep from thinking too deep about everything which is what I was taught from birth to do.
I studied history and science, I'm obviously an intelligent enough person, and yet whenever my brain would try to lead me to think about the lack of evidence for the 1st and 2nd testament, I felt guilty and shut it down. I never completely bought it but I wasn't about to refute it either. I just went along and took the little crumbs of feel goods I felt God was feeding me. And it doesn't help when you're dependent on your religious family. That's why sometimes I feel a little offended by some of the bashing from atheists who never grew up under that sort of mind control and are quick to be judgmental. Like, yeah, not everyone grew up with white liberal parents. Some of us are black and the faith is so deeply ingrained in our culture it almost seems like it's in our DNA. And coming out from religion would leave you feeling isolated from your race. It's all a clusterfuck but hey, I'm working on it.
Just wanted to say that reading these comments have been extremely helpful. I really appreciate your advice and humor!
Yeah..reminds me of my 1st wife.. I WANTED to believe she loved me and wasn't fucking the rest of the male population in town, but... at some point I finally realized I'd been duped. Those mental mind fucks felt great at first then began to make me the fool.. Religion is basically saying, 'Really! We're not fucking you over..We lovvvve you..' [-X
Quote from: "Lisa360"Quote from: "AtheistMoFo"But hey, it kind of sounds like you are putting us on. Late 20s and still not sure if Santa is real?
AtheistMoFo there's no need to be condescending. I understand I'm putting myself out there to people who don't share my background but I was hoping someone on here could relate. Religion and believing in Santa may be the same to you but to the vast majority of people that's their reality. You should be extremely glad you don't have any mind control bullshit to overcome, not judgmental of others. I envy you. That's nice...but leave the superiority complex for another post.
You are quite right and I apologize. To those of us who never suffered religious brainwashing, belief in gods really is no different to belief in Santa, but I see your point. It was caddish of me to make such a remark. Please accept my apology.
It is a fact that the majority of people the world over have some kind of religious nonsense pounded into their brains from infancy, and most are so fucked up by the time they become adults that they never question it. So you may not have been as lucky as those of us who never had superstition pounded into us, but look at it this way: at least you are fortunate to finally see through the farce while you are still young enough to go on with your life. It may make the relationship with your family tough, but there really is no alternative to facing up to reality. Once you know, you can not unknow.
What's a god?
I've always thought of Santa as god-lite for kids.. Instead of eternal salvation ya get the latest action figure if you're good, BUTTTT if you're bad it's the ol' lump of coal in the sock instead of eternal torture which for kids waiting for xmas is eternal torture.. :)
Quote from: "AllPurposeAtheist"I've always thought of Santa as god-lite for kids.. Instead of eternal salvation ya get the latest action figure if you're good, BUTTTT if you're bad it's the ol' lump of coal in the sock instead of eternal torture which for kids waiting for xmas is eternal torture.. :)
Yeah but Santa isn't a killer like yahveh . How many people Santa killed ? The bible god killed millions of people.
We just don't talk about Santa the Killer.. :-$
Haven't you ever seen "Silent Night, Deadly Night"? Santa is fucking crazy man. 8-[
Quote from: "Lisa360"Yeah, like many of you mentioned it doesn't make a lick of sense but the counter-programming still needs to stick. It's as difficult for Christians to make the change to reason as atheists to convert probably. Either way your brain would need to totally shift the way it thinks.
The counter programming does seem to stick, and it can stick for a long time. After my teens, I realized I was an agnostic and had been much of the time while I was claiming to be a Christian. I identified myself as an agnostic for many years, and I kept contemplating the ever annoying question of God's existence, "What if this? What if that?" The issue of 'not knowing' was sometimes tormenting, but of course not knowing is what agnosticism is. Not knowing is just an honest self appraisal. But the baggage lingered on.
Shifting the way I thought was a not an unnatural process for me. I was prone to reason and I was prone to learning about science. However, natural as the shift of thinking was (if it actually even was a shift), it created a conflict with the religious training I had gotten early on. It wasn't the shifting of thinking that was hard, it was the conflict it caused with what I was taught during my formative years.
Finally, after many years of that nonsense, I realized I was an atheist. I still can't answer the existence question, but realizing I didn't believe (which had always scared me before), seemed to wash away the annoying, "Yeah but, what if this and that questions." While I don't believe, I wouldn't go so far as to say that I deny. I don't deny that there might be a god. I simply don't have a belief. It's a very neutral state, a kind of a null statement as in programming. It's just a statement that means nothing and doesn't do anything. It's an empty space, nothing more.
The reason I could never recognize my unbelief was because of that old religious baggage that seems to hang out in your brain. Specifically, I was taught it was a sin not to believe. But what's a guy to do? Deny who you are? I can't help it. I just don't believe. I guess I could pretend to believe something, maybe sort of fool myself into thinking I actually believe. But that would be a lie, and I value self honesty more than that.
The upside to all of this, is that I'm just happier judging my reality by what makes sense, both logically, and from what we have learned from science which is basically just a process of critical thinking. That process doesn't answer all the questions, but it's a solid workable platform. And it makes a lot more sense than Bible stories.
Quote from: "Lisa360"I apologize for any grammatical errors. It's been a long night...
I'm in my late 20's and I come from an extremely religious Pentecostal upbringing. Anyone who comes from a charismatic christian background knows it's the most emotionally manipulative of all. I've never been baptized or spoken in tongues but I've always felt the overwhelming pressure to raise my hands and act the part.
Problem is, I've played the part too well and my family have no idea how fake and uncomfortable I've always felt.
I'm going through a difficult journey of confronting myself and realizing the the voice of "God" in my head when I pray and that feel good sensation I get when there's a worship song playing are all manifestations of my imagination. I feel terrified and guilty for feeling these things. I've been listening to Hitchens' debates & the Atheist Experience on YouTube and I know in my mind that what they're saying is true but I feel literally enslaved by my indoctrination. I'm terrified. What if I'm wrong and the Christians are right and I go to hell? Obviously this is illogical but it still hold such a massive power over me that I can't shake it. I feel like Christianity has completely robbed me of the freedom my friends who grew up in secular households have.
Obviously there are a lot of issues here but the most pressing is that my parent's are becoming more and more demanding of me since I recently moved out of the house. They question me when they don't see me in church and the whole thing has made me feel more distant from them. I know if I tell them they'll literally die of shock and be miserable for ever. This is so true to them that they will never accept it. My entire family is a bunch of tongue speaking devout Islanders (Caribbean) WTF is a girl to do?
1st of all research and learn that "hell" is original to Christianity and would not be part of it if it weren't for Pope Gregory trying to scare people into being obedient slaves.
2ndly if you have moved out you MUST establish your own live. You dictate things in your life no matter what your parents say. I understand that you want to stay on good terms with them, but it's YOUR life not theirs so live it the way YOU decide.
Quote from: "aitm"I read the title and suddenly felt dirty and germy.... :-k
I sang the title with a little shop of horrors feel and jazz hands and it felt good.
Quote from: "AllPurposeAtheist"Yeah..reminds me of my 1st wife.. I WANTED to believe she loved me and wasn't fucking the rest of the male population in town, but... at some point I finally realized I'd been duped. Those mental mind fucks felt great at first then began to make me the fool.. Religion is basically saying, 'Really! We're not fucking you over..We lovvvve you..' [-X
Lol religion can be QUITE the bad romance. I just thought of the song "I Will Survive"...
QuoteOnce I was afraid, I was petrified, kept thinking I could neva live without you by my side
(Cue disco music). :wink:
Quote from: "TrueStory"Quote from: "aitm"I read the title and suddenly felt dirty and germy.... :-k
I sang the title with a little shop of horrors feel and jazz hands and it felt good.
Oh crap now I'm reading my own title with the Diana Ross "I'm Coming Out" song. :rollin:
Quote from: "mykcob4"1st of all research and learn that "hell" is original to Christianity and would not be part of it if it weren't for Pope Gregory trying to scare people into being obedient slaves.
2ndly if you have moved out you MUST establish your own live. You dictate things in your life no matter what your parents say. I understand that you want to stay on good terms with them, but it's YOUR life not theirs so live it the way YOU decide.
Amen mykcob4. Preach it! Er...um you know what I mean. Lol. Thanks for the advice. :)
Quote from: "AtheistMoFo"Quote from: "Lisa360"Quote from: "AtheistMoFo"But hey, it kind of sounds like you are putting us on. Late 20s and still not sure if Santa is real?
AtheistMoFo there's no need to be condescending. I understand I'm putting myself out there to people who don't share my background but I was hoping someone on here could relate. Religion and believing in Santa may be the same to you but to the vast majority of people that's their reality. You should be extremely glad you don't have any mind control bullshit to overcome, not judgmental of others. I envy you. That's nice...but leave the superiority complex for another post.
You are quite right and I apologize. To those of us who never suffered religious brainwashing, belief in gods really is no different to belief in Santa, but I see your point. It was caddish of me to make such a remark. Please accept my apology.
It is a fact that the majority of people the world over have some kind of religious nonsense pounded into their brains from infancy, and most are so fucked up by the time they become adults that they never question it. So you may not have been as lucky as those of us who never had superstition pounded into us, but look at it this way: at least you are fortunate to finally see through the farce while you are still young enough to go on with your life. It may make the relationship with your family tough, but there really is no alternative to facing up to reality. Once you know, you can not unknow.
Thanks. I myself was close to fucking up my adult life for religion by refusing to date my agnostic (current) boyfriend awhile back. My parents disapproved, I still lived with them, and all that "do not be yolked with an unbeliever" nonsense. For god's sake they still thought I was celibate! :Hangman: (I wasn't. Ever) Looking back, I can see that would have been a terrible call and I'm glad I gave him a chance. We're still dating, and no, he has absolutely no influence over my conversion. We decided not to talk about religion with each other after everything that happened in the beginning. Probably due for a talk soon. I'm pretty sure he still considers me a back-sliding poser christian and I'm fine with that until I can make a clearer distinction for myself.
Quote from: "Lisa360"I'm terrified. What if I'm wrong and the Christians are right and I go to hell? Obviously this is illogical but it still hold such a massive power over me that I can't shake it.
Give it time. Just keep thinking about how flawed this argument really is.
When you were a believing Christian, how much fear did you have about going to the Jahannam (Muslim hell), or the Zoroastrian hell, etc? The Christian hell is just like those, nonexistent.
QuoteThey question me when they don't see me in church and the whole thing has made me feel more distant from them. I know if I tell them they'll literally die of shock and be miserable for ever. This is so true to them that they will never accept it. My entire family is a bunch of tongue speaking devout Islanders (Caribbean) WTF is a girl to do?
This is the sad part. The loss of family and friends over different beliefs.
I left Mormonism with my family back before the internet was what it is now, and not a lot of support. Very tough, especially since my family is descended from Brigham Young. Did not go over well. Fortunately I was separated geographically from them, so not so bad. The in laws was another story. It is definitely easier for a man than a single woman. Some women I met post tense really went through a meat grinder to get out, so believe me, I sympathize.
You know as an atheist you'll have to eat a couple babies to pass the initiation ritual.. Don't worry though. We permit you to eat premies so not to get overstuffed. :wink: :-$
Welcome to the forum.
In response to the "what if I'm wrong" argument, here is an attractive man with a brain to provide a perspective on the issue.
[youtube:syn0060c]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iClejS8vWjo[/youtube:syn0060c]
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Quote from: "jumper"Hey Lisa, I'm new here as well and going through a lot of what you are going through as well... with some differences, but I related to a lot of what you have typed. I'm late 20's and starting to 'come out' as an atheist, but scared as well. Not really scared to let the religious beliefs go, but worried about what everyone will think and how they'll treat me. And as nervous as I am, it's also pretty damn exciting and I feel alive and I feel like it's been what I've thinking for a very long time, but I'm just now admitting it to myself... it's awesome.
I totally agreed with you when you said a few things including how you felt like you were gay in the closet. I feel the same way. And that you said 'It's a clusterfuck, but hey I am working on it" is what I think exactly. And it's a LOT to take in and absorb and think about and process.
I'm married and my husband is an atheist and we have two young kids. I am so excited to raise them differently than the way I was raised. I hope they can have a sense of freedom, and are open minded, and feel in touch with nature and all things in it... and just realize what this life is all about - living in this life. Enjoying this life and treating others with kindness. Anyways, we have no choices in how we are raised, but it's awesome that if you grow up and realize you don't agree with what your parents taught you, you can change, learn, and grow and live your life any way you want! It can be a hard adjustment, of course, to let go of the way you were raised, but you just gotta be you. It's your life :)
Anyways, sorry to ramble... I haven't got much of a chance to really interact with the people on this forum, but I can tell they'd be there if I had a question or needed help or advice. It helps to have someone to reach out to is what I'm saying. Also reading blogs and books by people with the same beliefs helps a lot. Realizing you're not alone helps..
So, welcome!
Thank you jumper! I totally had that alive feeling the moment I decided my beliefs make no sense. Ya know when they freed the slaves some were happy and embraced freedom and some still clung to their Stockholm syndrome. I'm very excited to read and explore more. I'm actually doing a bit of digging into how the bible/judaism came together from other religions. Any suggestions on a good book or video?
I really appreciated your feedback! Your kids are going to be good people! :)
She has an avatar! It's official, she's one of us now!
Now, if only I could figure out what her avatar is.....
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At some point you come to the realization that what has been touted for centuries as the solution to mankind's problems is actually the biggest part of the cause. Religion has been the excuse for probably 80% of the heinous acts committed through history. Just think of all the wars that were justified by one god over another, especially the wars between Muslim states and everybody else.
Quote from: "jumper"Quote from: "Insult to Rocks"She has an avatar! It's official, she's one of us now!
Now, if only I could figure out what her avatar is.....
Reminds me of a grocery store isle... :-k
So, I need an avatar to fit in, huh?? Let me look around and see what I can come up with :wink:
Hahahaha just a random picture on my computer. I took it in a marketplace in Nice, France. I think it was candy? IDK It's pretty. Accept it. Damn atheistic gotta analyze everything!! 8-)
What's this? :shock: Women folk think they can just become atheists without permission of us men folk? Next thing you'll know they're gonna be wantin pant suits n shit! :-$
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Quote from: "AllPurposeAtheist"What's this? :shock: Women folk think they can just become atheists without permission of us men folk? Next thing you'll know they're gonna be wantin pant suits n shit! :-$
Don't mind APA. He and his "Nam" flashbacks are a little behind the times. :P
Quote from: "Insult to Rocks"Quote from: "AllPurposeAtheist"What's this? :shock: Women folk think they can just become atheists without permission of us men folk? Next thing you'll know they're gonna be wantin pant suits n shit! :-$
Don't mind APA. He and his "Nam" flashbacks are a little behind the times. :P
I'm a visionary. I came up with a viable method of extracting funds from xtians through their primal instinct to go forth to multiply..christianfuckbuddies.com. :-D
Quote from: "AllPurposeAtheist"What's this? :shock: Women folk think they can just become atheists without permission of us men folk? Next thing you'll know they're gonna be wantin pant suits n shit! :-$
Hate to tell you this, but they not only are wearing pants, they are wearing MAN pants. Pant suits? Oh god no.