I don't know if everyone is capable of being rational.
Sometimes I feel like some people need someone they can trust to be rational for them.
Other times I think being intelligent a basic concern of every human. An intrinsic responsibility, so to speak.
Quote from: "Solomon Zorn"Is Rational Thinking for Everyone?
Yes.
While perhaps some people will be naturally better or worse at rational thinking, I'd say that it is, to a large degree, a skill then needs to be learned and practiced. If someone was not taught how to think rationally when they were young, I don't think they can simply flip a switch and suddenly think rationally by default.
It may be like math: some students simply "get" math better then others. But a naturally worse student can out work a better one, at least to some degree. And even a good math student, if (s)he gets out of practice, will look very rusty trying to pick it back up again.
It's feeling kind of neckbeardy in here.
Quote from: "Agramon"It's feeling kind of neckbeardy in here.
I may be an uneducated hick, but I
do shave my neck. 8-)
I think that rational thinking is something that is taught. The way it is now, it sorta is just accepted to come by its own by osmosis in schools. At least, that's how it was when I went to school. I don't remember learning about how to think, only getting a bunch of tasks and problems to solve. That, and a shitload of repetition.
I've read before that rational thinking is indeed something you need to be taught and something that does not come naturally to most people. And also that if it's not taught at a young age, it becomes almost impossible to learn later.
Biologically we are really wired to follow without questioning it seems. And I can see why, to. It just doesn't apply to the modern world anymore.
Quote from: "the_antithesis"Quote from: "Solomon Zorn"Is Rational Thinking for Everyone?
Yes.
I'd say no. There are some people that can't or wont think that way, and actually perform better if they don't.
Quote from: "Sal1981"I think that rational thinking is something that is taught. The way it is now, it sorta is just accepted to come by its own by osmosis in schools. At least, that's how it was when I went to school. I don't remember learning about how to think, only getting a bunch of tasks and problems to solve. That, and a shitload of repetition.
I got some, but it was rare. Yes, mostly tasks and repetition, but on those rare occasions when I was exposed to logical reasoning, it was a different sort of learning, new, and therefore interesting. It left a dent, so to speak, but it's one of the few things I remember actually learning. Reason was not my default state. I assume it's like that for most people.
Most people automatically claim to use reason, even when supporting strange and bizarre positions. It's like another one of the human default states is to assume we are logical without actually testing our claims methodically.
Quote from: "Jason78"Quote from: "the_antithesis"Quote from: "Solomon Zorn"Is Rational Thinking for Everyone?
Yes.
I'd say no. There are some people that can't or wont think that way, and actually perform better if they don't.
As others have said, my observation is that it's usually an acquired skill. If something that goes against rational thinking is deeply ingrained within your brain then yes, you "can't or won't" think that way. But given enough time, I've found that anyone can overcome that; provided they do so willingly.
(//http://d15uu3l1sro2ln.cloudfront.net/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/jigsaw-lets-play3.jpg)
Quote from: "Jason78"Quote from: "the_antithesis"Quote from: "Solomon Zorn"Is[s:6slea3o3]Rational Thinking[/s:6slea3o3] breathing without choking to death on your own salivafor Everyone?
Yes.
I'd say no. There are some people that can't or wont [s:6slea3o3]think[/s:6slea3o3] breathe that way, and actually perform better if they don't.
This is not a matter of preference. One is either rational or insane. Are insane people actually better off being insane?
Well, Chucky Manson is marrying a 25 year old, so you might have a point. However, she is ugly, so no you don't.
It doesn't make any difference if someone is logical in their thinking because it can't prove what the truth is, but irrational magical thinking can sure make life miserable. You can't prove something doesn't exist, but you can prove through logic that it can't have contradictory attributes which the Judeo-Christian, Islamic God, is assumed to have. You can prove if the facts are agreed upon whether a statement is true or not. Also there are more than one system of logic. Quantum logic works different than we are accustomed to and requires higher math to use, but even then it is not really understood, it works and is therefore pragmatic just like religion is for some people, but it to cannot not show absolute truth but probabilities. Solitary
Being rational is not enough. You need to examine the worldview in which rational thinking is being exercised. Hitler was rational withing his own worldview, and so are many christians within their own views. What needs to be done is scrutinizing the assumptions within that worldview.
Who's been greasing up antithesis slippery slope?
Antitheist series of increasingly unacceptable consequences. Only for them and Eve :lol: Solitary.
Of course not. Rational thinking is a alien thing to Eve .
Quote from: "Solomon Zorn"I don't know if everyone is capable of being rational.
Sometimes I feel like some people need someone they can trust to be rational for them.
Other times I think being intelligent a basic concern of every human. An intrinsic responsibility, so to speak.
It depends what you're referring to by the term "rational thinking".
It's hard to make a good choice about an issue you have no/little experience with, e.g. an inexperienced politician may appear irrational when they speak out against gay rights or publicly let a corporation kill jobs in their constituency. An inexperienced programmer may appear irrational when they overcomplicate their programs. A new parent may appear irrational when they attempt to feed a baby cow milk rather than breast milk or infant formula.
Their flawed perspectives, however, portray their actions as rational and well-founded. The politician may think that the bonuses from conservatives or corporations override the bad press and ire they'll receive. The programmer may not know how to keep track of their variables, or they may not be familiar with common, simplifying patterns in programming. The new parent may have little or no education about raising a child, being unaware of the relative benefits of infant formula (e.g. nutrients) or breast milk (e.g. antibodies). These people each applied their limited knowledge to make a rational decision, from their POV.
Beyond that, you need to consider that some people get trapped in an irrational mindset. People can grow to excessively distrust their own reasoning, senses, or others' honesty, and this can prevent an entirely rational train of thought further down the road. People undergo brainwashing and other psychological manipulation that subordinates their good sense to someone else's greed.
Do you believe that all of these people are at fault for their failure to reason properly?
Quote from: "SkepticOfMyOwnMind"Do you believe that all of these people are at fault for their failure to reason properly?
That's a bit of a leading question because you are describing many situations and some interpretations of irrationality that technically are not irrational, but just mistakes or examples of ignorance. For example, a politician cannot be identified as irrational for speaking out against something like gay marriage until his reasoning is examined. Until then it's just a position he opposes. A person cannot be identified as irrational, or rational, without testing his arguments.
Even if a person holds an irrational belief, you might not call him an irrational person, although at least one of his particular beliefs is most definitely irrational.
I thought your post was a good one, as it leads to thinking about what rational and irrational means. This is a very important point, and one which Christians often miss by a mile. In conversations with them, what I often glean is that "logical" simply identifies something they believe, and has nothing to do with testing their reasoning for logical fallacies. When, I've asked them to explain the logic, they usually don't respond. I think this is not just blowing off the query. It's just a total lack of the understanding of what logical processes involve. They remain silent because they have no understanding of how one would test reasoning for logic, or least of all why someone would ever do it.
Of course some Christians just admit their beliefs are not logical, and proceed forward as if logic is some trivial matter that is best ignored. LOL
Quote from: "SkepticOfMyOwnMind"Quote from: "Solomon Zorn"I don't know if everyone is capable of being rational.
Sometimes I feel like some people need someone they can trust to be rational for them.
Other times I think being intelligent a basic concern of every human. An intrinsic responsibility, so to speak.
It depends what you're referring to by the term "rational thinking".
It's hard to make a good choice about an issue you have no/little experience with, e.g. an inexperienced politician may appear irrational when they speak out against gay rights or publicly let a corporation kill jobs in their constituency. An inexperienced programmer may appear irrational when they overcomplicate their programs. A new parent may appear irrational when they attempt to feed a baby cow milk rather than breast milk or infant formula.
Their flawed perspectives, however, portray their actions as rational and well-founded. The politician may think that the bonuses from conservatives or corporations override the bad press and ire they'll receive. The programmer may not know how to keep track of their variables, or they may not be familiar with common, simplifying patterns in programming. The new parent may have little or no education about raising a child, being unaware of the relative benefits of infant formula (e.g. nutrients) or breast milk (e.g. antibodies). These people each applied their limited knowledge to make a rational decision, from their POV.
Beyond that, you need to consider that some people get trapped in an irrational mindset. People can grow to excessively distrust their own reasoning, senses, or others' honesty, and this can prevent an entirely rational train of thought further down the road. People undergo brainwashing and other psychological manipulation that subordinates their good sense to someone else's greed.
Do you believe that all of these people are at fault for their failure to reason properly?
Thanks for reiterating what I had already posted, but you did it more elaborately.