So, my Muslim friend (or sort of) just gave me another interesting "miracle" in the quran. So far, I could debunk all of them (with your help - thanks!), but this one is really strange...
I give you the link, I hope it is not too much to read, but you really should read till the end, because that's where the point is. (sorry :( but if you do not want to read all this just say it and maybe I can make a short summary here...)
http://www.answering-christianity.com/m ... iracle.htm (http://www.answering-christianity.com/mahir/ants_communication_miracle.htm)
I apologize for the ugly website :(
I think this is really strange... I mean, that the sentence the ant says matches exactly with the four stages and the sequence of ant communication and the four chemicals. And it's also interesting that I haven't found another reason why Mohammed should say something about an ant with Solomon, as far as I was able to research, there isn't some jewish tale or similar which is older and which Mohammed could have copied, you know what I mean?
I am very grateful for any opinions and I really hope I do not bore you with this Islamic miracle stuff, but maybe it is a nice change from the normal Christian topics if you know what I mean.
This is called making stuff up to fit after the fact. There's nothing in there about ant communication, or chemical signalling.
What Jason said. The Koran describes the ants literally talking to each other, and at no point describes the chemical signalling involved. If the Koran really described what was happening in an accurate manner, this would have been confirmed by Koranic scholars centuries ago.
If this really puzzles you, you are in trouble. Its really pretty absurd.
Ants don't talk they communicate. Only Serpents, Mules, and burning bushes talk, Jeeezus atheist are dumb. :roll: :lol: Solitary
Oh man, that's undebunkable! It must mean the entire Koran is correct and we must bomb people because of the religion of peace! Hollow Akbar! :Hangman:
Quote from: "kilodelta"Oh man, that's undebunkable! It must mean the entire Koran is correct and we must bomb people because of the religion of peace! Hollow Akbar! :Hangman:
Quote from: "aitm"If this really puzzles you, you are in trouble. Its really pretty absurd.
Ok, I get it. Guess you are right, this seems to be a real stretch of the text. And anyway, no one can understand ants and I also don't think that ants can recognize special people lile "Solomon". :shock:
Ok here is the last one, because I am not rather sure I get it...
It is about this verse: "It is not permitted to the Sun to catch up the Moon, nor can the Night outstrip the Day: Each (just) swims along in (its own) orbit (according to Law)" (36:40)
So he said this is a miracle because of the fact that there exists solar eclipses. From the people`s view on earth it actually seems as if the sun catches up the moon during an eclipse, so how could they possible know that it is in fact not catching up anything? This is supposed to describe the fact that the sun and the moon have completely different orbits in space and are not on an "identical" orbit just on different places as the ancient people thought.
I think this were his exact words.
So what do you think? I mean in some point he is right, when the people in that time watched an eclipse it really should have make them think that the sun is catching up the moon so why didn't they write so?
People had figured out (and proven) that planets and other stuff in the heavens have their own orbits hundreds of years BC, so it's not strange to see that reflected in a book written almost a thousand years later. Sometimes peolpe give "the ancient people" too little credit. Some of em were actually really smart.
Quote from: "Lolilla"I think this were his exact words.
So what do you think? I mean in some point he is right, when the people in that time watched an eclipse it really should have make them think that the sun is catching up the moon so why didn't they write so?
Have you watched a solar eclipse? I have, and from what I saw it looked like the moon was moving across the sun.
It doesn't take a genius to figure out that one must be in front of the other as they didn't collide.
Quote from: "Lolilla"So, my Muslim friend (or sort of) just gave me another interesting "miracle" in the quran. So far, I could debunk all of them (with your help - thanks!), but this one is really strange...
I give you the link, I hope it is not too much to read, but you really should read till the end, because that's where the point is. (sorry :( but if you do not want to read all this just say it and maybe I can make a short summary here...)
http://www.answering-christianity.com/m ... iracle.htm (http://www.answering-christianity.com/mahir/ants_communication_miracle.htm)
I apologize for the ugly website :(
I think this is really strange... I mean, that the sentence the ant says matches exactly with the four stages and the sequence of ant communication and the four chemicals. And it's also interesting that I haven't found another reason why Mohammed should say something about an ant with Solomon, as far as I was able to research, there isn't some jewish tale or similar which is older and which Mohammed could have copied, you know what I mean?
I am very grateful for any opinions and I really hope I do not bore you with this Islamic miracle stuff, but maybe it is a nice change from the normal Christian topics if you know what I mean.
[youtube:z7ha525h]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O9xRhwmHBBE[/youtube:z7ha525h]It's personification, or characterizing non-humans in human ways. People do it all the time, and it's nothing special. It's just a built-in mental shortcut, available to everyone.
Just because humans were more superstitious and looking for magical explanations for the natural world 1000's of years ago, does not mean they were inherently less intelligent or less observant. Or that there weren't equally inquisitive people as there are now.
The behavior of ants described in the Koran in the linked article, is pretty easily observed. Humans did much more amazing things centuries before the Koran was written than to make some observations of ant behavior.
In fact, it was that exact observed behavior that caused scientists to discover their chemical method of communication. That is exactly how science works; observe phenomena, come up with hypothesis, test, observe, test again, etc.
Proof the Koran is a sacred book:
How about this from the Koran: The number 19 is the total of the numbers 9 and 10 to the power of 1. The difference between the numbers 9 and 10 to the power of 2 is again 19.
101
102
10+9
100 - 81
19
19
The Sun, Moon and Earth line up in the same relative positions once every 19 years.241
Halley's Comet passes through the Solar System once every 76 years (19 x 4).242
There are 209 (19 x 11) bones in the human body.243 The number of bones in the human hand is 19.244
The place of the number 19 in the Pascal triangle
The total of the first 19 figures in the Pascal triangle is 38 (19 x 2).
Pascal's triangle is an arithmetical one used in algebra and probability calculations.
The total of the first 19 numbers in the Pascal triangle is 57 (19 x 3).
Figure 2: The first 19 figures
Conclusion:
The total of the first 19 figures is a multiple of 19.
The total of the first 19 numbers is a multiple of 19.
The connection between the number 19 and the Pascal triangle with regard to the revelation sequence of the Qur'anic verses
The 96th Sura, the first revealed, comes 19 before the end. It consists of 19 verses and contains a total of 285 letters (19 x 15). The first five verses of the revelation contain 76 (19 x 4) letters.
The first verses of the 68th Sura, the second to be revealed, consist of 38 (19 x 2) words.
The third revelation, the 73rd Sura, contains 57 (19 x 3) words.
:shock: :lol: Solitary
It's just a stupid fable. Ants don't talk like people, and when you pass by a bunch of them, they don't hurry to get out of your way. In fact, you tend to step right on them without even noticing, and the living ants sometimes pick up the dead ones to take back to their nest (no point wasting food).
QuoteThe first substance detected by the ants is an "aldehyde hexanal".
Funny how the fable doesn't actually mention this by name. In fact, it says nothing at all about the ants using a chemical of any kind, it simply has them speaking like human beings to each other. When you are reading a story, and the animals begin talking just like humans, you know you are reading a tall tale.
Another problem with this dumb story is the whole idea that God would somehow inform us about the communication methods of insects, but not give us ANY information that could make the world a happier place, such as a cure for cancer. I guess Allah thinks insects are more important than people.
The Koran is the final word on ant behavior. When you want to know about ants, the Koran is the first place to look.
Unlike us, ants barely use sound or sight to communicate. An ant never disagrees with what it has to do, it follows its own 'programmed' rules and signals in the forms of chemical smells, vibrations and touch.
This system is perfectly suited to a social community acting as one body aiming for the same goal, colony survival.
Or a theocracy, or the Borg, I might add. :shock: #-o Solitary
Quote from: "Plu"Some of em were actually really smart.
I would say that approx. around the same percentage of really smart people were around then is there are now of really smart people around. There would be more really smart people today, but there is also more stupid ones too due to population growth.
I don't understand how people don't think that the neanderthal was very smart either, they only pounded us through the stone age, tamed fire and managed to exist for 250,000 years. We will be lucky as our species to exist half of that time due to our intelligence.
Ants follow patterns developed over millions of years.
Human being, grow FASTER, STRANGER.
We are not ANTS, we THINK/FEEL/STRUGGLE/CHANGE/SHAPE.
We are not ants. They are amazing in what they do with small ganglia, but we are who and what we are, MORE!
Who/what compares humanity with ants? Show that being/expression (which is clearly not human), and I SHALL EXTERMINATE IT AS THE FOOL IT IS.
Umm... or rather, insects are not human beings, and so comparing us is absurd.
Either way is fine. Either way is true. Only don't think humanity is like insects, as that's the insane delusion of a cognitively lazy MONSTER.
I eat monsters for breakfast, and wake every day.
(ok, that sounded pithy but was half-true--LIES are MONSTERS--now it's TRUE)
Figuratively speaking, this is an atheist site so, it's all about the individual struggle. All about the empirical, all about the REAL.
Don't worry, if anything survives human existence, it is not the shallow/shitty/stupid minds, it's the LOVING AND LOVABLE being. You're fine. No need to hedge your bets, RATIONAL/REASONABLE/HONEST, matter so much more than caring for an instant what might come after. Strive for better, and you are BETTER in ALL WAYS.
Better in the here and now, which matters, MATTERS. Struggling for better in who you are in everything you say and do, MATTERS.
YOU MATTER.
YOU change all that will be through your struggle for better.
YOU, are now and reverberate through the ages.
YOU are impossible. YOU who love, make all better.
You matter, more than you can imagine, far more than belief, in TRUTH and LOVE YOU MAKE ALL BETTER.
YOU ARE BETTER THAN THOSE WHO LIVED BEFORE YOU!
You would have done better with a video of a talking ant.
It pretty much just translates as the Story of the Talking Ants.
>>>Story<<<