Too often I see in internet discussions, or discussions in real life too, that people quote known persons, to make a statement.
If, for example, people are debating democracy, someone will eventually quote Winston Churchill's "democracy is the least worst of all options"-quote.
Why can't people make up their quotes? That way people will be forced to put forth an argument.
Most people use quotes from others, and simply forget that just because it was a known person who said so, it isn't an argument in and of itself.
Famous people are not always right, and they certainly are never right because they are famous.
Please stop quoting other people if you want to say something useful.
Quoting others is not neccesarily stupid, but it can be abused just like anything else. A quote is not an argument in and of itself as you say, but it can lend strength to an argument. Not because of who said it, but because of why they said it.
It's basically just the compacted version of using another person's argument. And the quote is just as strong as any other argument copied from another, only more compacted.
It's common to attribute words to their original author or speaker so that everyone else in the conversation knows that they are not your words and to show that you're not plagiarising.
QuoteNext to the originator of a good sentence is the first quoter of it.
:P :lol: Solitary
Quote from: "Ralph Waldo Emerson"Next to the originator of a good sentence is the first quoter of it. Many will read the book before one thinks of quoting a passage. As soon as he has done this, that line will be quoted east and west.
Attribute your quotes Solitary!
Maybe because people quote for the content of the quote, not because so-and-so said it.
Quote from: "mediumaevum"Too often I see in internet discussions, or discussions in real life too, that people quote known persons, to make a statement.
If, for example, people are debating democracy, someone will eventually quote Winston Churchill's "democracy is the least worst of all options"-quote.
Why can't people make up their quotes? That way people will be forced to put forth an argument.
Most people use quotes from others, and simply forget that just because it was a known person who said so, it isn't an argument in and of itself.
Famous people are not always right, and they certainly are never right because they are famous.
Please stop quoting other people if you want to say something useful.
You can't demand that people stop doing something because you want them to or don't like it. I was trying to think of an apt quote from a famous person here but I just can't think of one at the moment. I have a book of quotes that I could consult, but I can't remember exactly where I put it.
People will always use quotes because people are basically lazy and unoriginal. Some use quotes with expertise an choose the perfect quote for the situation. I am not either of those. I choose quotes on impulse and usually choose quotes that are pat answers. You're right famous people aren't always correct and their opinions aren't necessarily right, but people use quotes from famous people to achieve credibility for their arguements. Whether that is right or wrong is besides the point. If they choose to use that tactic is what they choose to do, and you nor I could stem the tide of that tactic.
Like quoting Mitt Romney and his 47% rant while he was running for president? We're all takers and yet it's stupid to quote morons like Romney?
I think not.
Quote from: "mykcob4"People will always use quotes because people are basically lazy and unoriginal.
That's the problem I was trying to address.
I think most quote not because they are lazy or non-intelligent, most quote because if they don't, other smart people accuse them of semi-plagiarizing. Which brings up a peeve of mine anyway. Most quotes are not originals. I mean many quotes are attributed to a person and it may be the first time it was written down and by that attributed to that person, but we can never know who first said something.
Remember Roosevelt is given the "the only thing we have to fear is fear itself", however this was found almost 800 years earlier by Saint Teresa Cepeda.
Anyway, I think quoting people and especially knowing the quotes is the sign of a well versed, well read person. Certainly a better indication of a willingness to learn versus blatant ignorance.
Quote from: "Jason78"Quote from: "Ralph Waldo Emerson"Next to the originator of a good sentence is the first quoter of it. Many will read the book before one thinks of quoting a passage. As soon as he has done this, that line will be quoted east and west.
Attribute your quotes Solitary!
That would be redundant now wouldn't? :P :lol: Solitary
It's not redundant. I like to know the source of your quotes so that I can go back and check out the original in context.
I often find it useful to quote others because they can say it way better than I can.
Quote from: "mediumaevum"Too often I see in internet discussions, or discussions in real life too, that people quote known persons, to make a statement.
If, for example, people are debating democracy, someone will eventually quote Winston Churchill's "democracy is the least worst of all options"-quote.
Why can't people make up their quotes? That way people will be forced to put forth an argument.
Most people use quotes from others, and simply forget that just because it was a known person who said so, it isn't an argument in and of itself.
Famous people are not always right, and they certainly are never right because they are famous.
Please stop quoting other people if you want to say something useful.
When something is said elegantly, it bears repeating. And if one repeats it, crediting the original speaker is only right.
Now, if you take the concept and reword it, you are still borrowing, and still need to give due credit; but in the world of the Internet, some dickhead will always come along and say, "Aha, you got the quote wrong! Therefore you are wrong!" which, while obviously fallacious thinking, is annoying and liable to sidetrack the discussion.
It's therefore better to quote exactly, credit the quote, and then elaborate upon it.
It's only the argument from authority if someone alleges the quote is evidence because of its speaker's fame, assuming that the quote is not in the speaker's field of experience.
"Are you 5?"
-The Internet
I get what the OP says. Religious people do it on religious forums, Atheists on Atheist forums. You know, get a pic, edit your profile info, put a quote expressing your idea of life from a famous dead (or alive) person in your sig, and there you go. In my view I see that as people trying to establish themselves by drawing the line in the sand by saying "this is me, this is who I am and what I believe, here I am". I think Atheists should, for the sake of consistency, try to avoid things like that most of the time because if you want to set an example and be different from the people you oppose, doing exactly what they do is not a good place to start. Anyways, that's just what I think, and I cannot nor do I want to tell people what to do.
Quote from: "frosty"I get what the OP says. Religious people do it on religious forums, Atheists on Atheist forums. You know, get a pic, edit your profile info, put a quote expressing your idea of life from a famous dead (or alive) person in your sig, and there you go. In my view I see that as people trying to establish themselves by drawing the line in the sand by saying "this is me, this is who I am and what I believe, here I am". I think Atheists should, for the sake of consistency, try to avoid things like that most of the time because if you want to set an example and be different from the people you oppose, doing exactly what they do is not a good place to start.
Atheists shouldn't use quotes because theists use quotes? :-k :-?
Quote from: "Hydra009"Quote from: "frosty"I get what the OP says. Religious people do it on religious forums, Atheists on Atheist forums. You know, get a pic, edit your profile info, put a quote expressing your idea of life from a famous dead (or alive) person in your sig, and there you go. In my view I see that as people trying to establish themselves by drawing the line in the sand by saying "this is me, this is who I am and what I believe, here I am". I think Atheists should, for the sake of consistency, try to avoid things like that most of the time because if you want to set an example and be different from the people you oppose, doing exactly what they do is not a good place to start.
Atheists shouldn't use quotes because theists use quotes? :-k :-?
I really don't think I should have to clarify this, but I was focusing on the tribalistic aspect of the whole "us vs them" mentality. Just because theists compartmentalize themselves and make it very clear what they believe and try to brand themselves it does not mean that Atheists should return the favor and copy their behavior. In that sense when Atheists do that they are, in a way, making Atheism "another belief", "just another religion", or whatever term you want to use to obscure the raw fact that Atheism is simply a lack of a belief in a deity(ies) and nothing more.
"I like quotes, I use them all the time." - Pickelledeggs
:lol: No, seriously. I like quotes. Sometimes I like the way someone else got something across because of it's wording, or the rhythm of they way they said it. Not to steal thier thoughts, but because it reflects my thoughts already. Why do more work and think of new ways to say what has already been said?
Quote from: "PickelledEggs""I like quotes, I use them all the time." - Pickelledeggs
:lol: No, seriously. I like quotes. Sometimes I like the way someone else got something across because of it's wording, or the rhythm of they way they said it. Not to steal thier thoughts, but because it reflects my thoughts already. Why do more work and think of new ways to say what has already been said?
This.
No need to "invent the wheel more than once". When someone else has already made a good argument, why not use it?
I think I need to clarify what I meant:
Of course there is no problem in quoting others if you do so to say "other people already said that" as in:
"That topic has already been discussed".
The problem arise when people are quoting others without refering to the historical context.
Without the historical context, you miss the way on how you got to that conclusion.
If the historical context is somewhat different from the current context, the quote basically becomes meaningless.
Quote from: "PickelledEggs""I like quotes, I use them all the time." - Pickelledeggs
:lol: No, seriously. I like quotes. Sometimes I like the way someone else got something across because of it's wording, or the rhythm of they way they said it. Not to steal thier thoughts, but because it reflects my thoughts already. Why do more work and think of new ways to say what has already been said?
This is pretty much what I would have said.
That's why I quote him. And to acknowledge that someone has already articulated the same idea
first, and although it's not relevant to an argument, it's nice to give recognition to people who beat you to the punch.
Plus it helps avoid redundancy.
Quote from: "mediumaevum"I think I need to clarify what I meant:
Of course there is no problem in quoting others if you do so to say "other people already said that" as in:
"That topic has already been discussed".
The problem arise when people are quoting others without refering to the historical context.
Without the historical context, you miss the way on how you got to that conclusion.
If the historical context is somewhat different from the current context, the quote basically becomes meaningless.
There are plenty of times when quoting something is just downright stupid. Quoting the bible is one. Quoting famous people is sometimes another. Everyone quotes Marylin Monroe. Why? IDFK, but half the girls I know (that aren't putting bible quotes as their *insert social media* status) put that quote "If you can't handle me at my worst...." malarkey.
Really, the only time I find that it's a problem that certain things/people are quoted are: things like religious text with the purpose to teach how to live / to prove the text in a sort of circular logic and quoting famous people because just because they are famous, makes them an expert on life.