Just as women escaped sexism in the west, Islam will meet the same fate. Watch out Neil Pert you've got some competition.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=MUAhV8K-v3A (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MUAhV8K-v3A)
I don't believe that humanity slides toward freedom and equality as if it were a natural default state. I wonder sometimes if western style democracy might be just a temporary anomaly in the human condition.
Oppressive religions have a much more durable track record lasting for thousands of years with very little change.
Quote from: "SGOS"I don't believe that humanity slides toward freedom and equality as if it were a natural default state. I wonder sometimes if western style democracy might be just a temporary anomaly in the human condition.
Oppressive religions have a much more durable track record lasting for thousands of years with very little change.
Um no, while it is true that oppression DOES work in evolution, there is also our compassionate side of our species that has empathy for others.
if things never changed then human progress would not happen.
Quote from: "Brian37"Quote from: "SGOS"I don't believe that humanity slides toward freedom and equality as if it were a natural default state. I wonder sometimes if western style democracy might be just a temporary anomaly in the human condition.
Oppressive religions have a much more durable track record lasting for thousands of years with very little change.
Um no, while it is true that oppression DOES work in evolution, there is also our compassionate side of our species that has empathy for others.
if things never changed then human progress would not happen.
I didn't say that change can't happen, but that doesn't automatically mean things will change according to your perceptions guided by some human dynamic you have a strong faith in. I just lack that particular faith.
For such a radical religion, I am sometimes surprised at how fast it is growing and how many people it has taken
Then I look at history, and realize people desire to be enslaved by a god
Quote from: "SGOS"Quote from: "Brian37"Quote from: "SGOS"I don't believe that humanity slides toward freedom and equality as if it were a natural default state. I wonder sometimes if western style democracy might be just a temporary anomaly in the human condition.
Oppressive religions have a much more durable track record lasting for thousands of years with very little change.
Um no, while it is true that oppression DOES work in evolution, there is also our compassionate side of our species that has empathy for others.
if things never changed then human progress would not happen.
I didn't say that change can't happen, but that doesn't automatically mean things will change according to your perceptions guided by some human dynamic you have a strong faith in. I just lack that particular faith.
What? What "faith", life is both good and bad and there are no guarantees, I accept that.
Quote from: "Brian37"Quote from: "SGOS"I didn't say that change can't happen, but that doesn't automatically mean things will change according to your perceptions guided by some human dynamic you have a strong faith in. I just lack that particular faith.
What? What "faith", life is both good and bad and there are no guarantees, I accept that.
You're welcome.
I don't understand what the drummer has to do with Islam. Islam is actually growing in popularity, and her timing is off.
Things change, change ? improvement. Improvement might come from change, but it wont come by itself.
Quote from: "Jmpty"I don't understand what the drummer has to do with Islam. Islam is actually growing in popularity, and her timing is off.
What?
EVERYTHING! The middle east needs to catch up with the modern world and this is merely a video showing them what compassion and human rights looks like.
Saudi Arabia doesn't allow women to drive, and even more secular Morocco a girl committed suicide after a court sentenced her to marry her rapist.
And for girls of the Arab world, who might view this it shows them that they don't have to put up with the sexism of the societies they live in.
It is a about girl power!
Quote from: "SGOS"I don't believe that humanity slides toward freedom and equality as if it were a natural default state. I wonder sometimes if western style democracy might be just a temporary anomaly in the human condition.
Oppressive religions have a much more durable track record lasting for thousands of years with very little change.
Hate to say it, but I agree. China has existed for 5,000 years with a fairly consistently oppressive political system.
Quote from: "_Xenu_"Quote from: "SGOS"I don't believe that humanity slides toward freedom and equality as if it were a natural default state. I wonder sometimes if western style democracy might be just a temporary anomaly in the human condition.
Oppressive religions have a much more durable track record lasting for thousands of years with very little change.
Hate to say it, but I agree. China has existed for 5,000 years with a fairly consistently oppressive political system.
Um so? Our species has been around slightly more than 5,000 years.
Islam has already failed as a positive force for good, just like Christianity has. When people don't question authority and embrace it, it becomes a force of evil whether it is religious ideals or political ones. Solitaty
Quote from: "Brian37"Um so? Our species has been around slightly more than 5,000 years.
Yes, but how many countries have survived that long with roughly the same borders? China has always valued stability over personal freedom.
Islam has been here since before 700 CE and currently has 1.57 billion members. I don't think that qualifies as "failing".
Quote from: "stromboli"Islam has been here since before 700 CE and currently has 1.57 billion members. I don't think that qualifies as "failing".
Um 700 years is nothing compared to 500,000 years of evolution. It will fail if it doesn't have it's own Jefferson. I am not talking about liberal Muslims in the west, I am talking about the east.
Quote from: "stromboli"Islam has been here since before 700 CE and currently has 1.57 billion members. I don't think that qualifies as "failing".
Political Islam is a joke though. It is failing in almost every place it has been implemented in. Most Muslims that exist these days are not true followers of Islam. Yes, I am allowed to say it. The so called "extremists" are right. To truly follow Islam is to follow the Quran and what they refer to as the "Sunnah". Mixing in anything else is apostasy. In that sense, yes it is failing. As for people nominally being Muslims and going about their lives, I don't see how that's an issue just as much as I don't see how Natives or people believing in Astrology is an issue.
The only people that are truly following Islam these days are not that successful and do not seem to be welcomed by other Muslims who see the value of a non-extremist society and wish to embrace it.
Islam will fail for the same reason every other religion will fail eventually: communications technology. The advent of the internet is still quite a recent thing in terms of human history. With the impact it has had on recent revolutions it is clear that the internet and the ability to freely exchange information is a tyrant's worst nightmare. The worst thing that tyrants have to face is that even if they somehow shut the internet down in their countries is that the technology to set up a private and secure intranet is out there and readily available. This being said religion, one of the favorite tools of tyrants, is now facing its hardest challenge: the free and (with the right proxies/software) anonymous exchange of information and ideas.
Will Islam, Christianity, and other religions exist in 200 years? Probably, but they'll be in much different forms than today. Eventually every religion will have to try and be relevant with the times or risk being washed away.
Quote from: "stromboli"Islam has been here since before 700 CE and currently has 1.57 billion members. I don't think that qualifies as "failing".
We could make similar claims about Roman paganism at its height. Or polytheism in general before monotheism caught on. Current success does not necessarily secure future success.
Quote from: "The Skeletal Atheist"Islam will fail for the same reason every other religion will fail eventually: communications technology. The advent of the internet is still quite a recent thing in terms of human history. With the impact it has had on recent revolutions it is clear that the internet and the ability to freely exchange information is a tyrant's worst nightmare. The worst thing that tyrants have to face is that even if they somehow shut the internet down in their countries is that the technology to set up a private and secure intranet is out there and readily available. This being said religion, one of the favorite tools of tyrants, is now facing its hardest challenge: the free and (with the right proxies/software) anonymous exchange of information and ideas.
Will Islam, Christianity, and other religions exist in 200 years? Probably, but they'll be in much different forms than today. Eventually every religion will have to try and be relevant with the times or risk being washed away.
History will repeat and today's believed "true" religions will morph and change and or completely die out. Unfortunately most likely to be replaced with some other new concocted bullshit with claimed super heros and prophets, just like those prior.
Every religion will have to evolve with the times or die out. Of course, the literalists, the fundies and the radicals are going to scream out louder and louder.
But overshadowing all this is the relentless destruction to the environment we are impacting, which eventually will make every institutions, including the religious ones, untenable.
I tend to disagree with many posters here that religion will die out as a result of time. That is progressive, futuristic, Atheistic thinking, but often unfortunately does not have a bearing in the harsh real world. Religion gives people hope. Religion re-assures simple humans about their existence in this gargantuan universe. That is just not going to stop. People need religion and non-physical fantasies to feel better about their lives. It may be tough for users on an Atheist forum to accept, but yes, that does seem to be the absolute majority of humans. Most people seem to believe in religion, or some type of spirituality and there is nothing we can do about it.
It's 2013. Not only are people still attending religious houses of worship in large numbers, but people use the Internet itself to promote and validate their beliefs. The user that posted about how the Internet is defeating religion offered an extremely simple and one sided argument. And as for the "revolutions" in the Middle East, well, internal factors were also a large part of what happened, it's not just the Internet that caused the events. And those countries aren't doing so well right now anyway. It is my view that with all these factors considered religion is only going to get more intense in the future. It's not going away, and making a post on an Atheist forum talking about how it will be phased out does not mean that it actually will.
Quote from: "frosty"I tend to disagree with many posters here that religion will die out as a result of time. That is progressive, futuristic, Atheistic thinking, but often unfortunately does not have a bearing in the harsh real world. Religion gives people hope. Religion re-assures simple humans about their existence in this gargantuan universe. That is just not going to stop. People need religion and non-physical fantasies to feel better about their lives. It may be tough for users on an Atheist forum to accept, but yes, that does seem to be the absolute majority of humans. Most people seem to believe in religion, or some type of spirituality and there is nothing we can do about it.
What if religion was just a part of an evolutionary process?
In that respect I forsee religion dying out, but as with all things evolutionary, it will take a long time.
As less people deconvert, and children are raised in non-religious environments, the numbers associated with religion will eventually dwindle. Sure, there are those who fall into religion who might have been raised in a non-religious family, though the percentages of this are small, and even they can deconvert (as I did).
So I'd say there is hope.. what I'm more afraid of is some religious-fueled war against non-believers that wipes out a massive population.
Call me a pessimist, but if something like Christianity can not only hang on but thrive against all of the scientific achievement created through the same period, I question how vulnerable religion is. Islam and other religions are highly opportunistic and aggressive in their nature. The fact that Sharia Law has been instituted in neighborhoods in England alone is reason to worry.
http://frontpagemag.com/2013/dgreenfiel ... don-video/ (http://frontpagemag.com/2013/dgreenfield/muslim-religious-police-begin-enforcing-islamic-law-in-london-video/)
http://www.cbn.com/cbnnews/world/2012/N ... t-Britain/ (http://www.cbn.com/cbnnews/world/2012/November/Islamic-Sharia-Law-Comes-to-Great-Britain/)
http://communities.washingtontimes.com/ ... -20-years/ (http://communities.washingtontimes.com/neighborhood/what-world/2013/jun/7/britain-may-be-islamic-nation-within-20-years/)
The fact that this isn't receiving much press alone is disturbing. This doesn't constitute failing, short or long term.
It's only been 200-300 years since the enlightmentment period where deism and atheism really started to make an impact (in the west), both of which oppose theism. In the grand scheme of things, we're still very young in our development on this front.
In a lot of eastern countries, they haven't made much progress at all (as a whole) .. though there have been small break-throughs, and there are testimonies of Arabs who have left the islamic religion and embraced education and scientific reason and rational thought.
I don't anticipate any great changes over the course of my lifetime.. but you never know!
Quote from: "Sulaco"Quote from: "frosty"I tend to disagree with many posters here that religion will die out as a result of time. That is progressive, futuristic, Atheistic thinking, but often unfortunately does not have a bearing in the harsh real world. Religion gives people hope. Religion re-assures simple humans about their existence in this gargantuan universe. That is just not going to stop. People need religion and non-physical fantasies to feel better about their lives. It may be tough for users on an Atheist forum to accept, but yes, that does seem to be the absolute majority of humans. Most people seem to believe in religion, or some type of spirituality and there is nothing we can do about it.
What if religion was just a part of an evolutionary process?
In that respect I forsee religion dying out, but as with all things evolutionary, it will take a long time.
As less people deconvert, and children are raised in non-religious environments, the numbers associated with religion will eventually dwindle. Sure, there are those who fall into religion who might have been raised in a non-religious family, though the percentages of this are small, and even they can deconvert (as I did).
So I'd say there is hope.. what I'm more afraid of is some religious-fueled war against non-believers that wipes out a massive population.
Once again Sulaco - futuristic thinking. You are a progressive, forward thinker and that's good. Considering how much humans have changed since the times of the Abrahamic religions, which is very little yet very much at the same time, if religion is part of an evolutionary process that doesn't bode any better anyways. Evolution is a slow process - sometimes an extremely, extremely slow one. Now in the context of evolution, you foresee religion dying out, but what if it doesn't? Somebody used quite frankly an awful argument by saying the Internet is killing religion. Wrong, the Internet is emboldening and validating religion. And disregarding the Internet, people
in their minds simply do not want to give up. They. Just. Don't. I am trying to make my fellow Atheists here understand and accept that. Most people believe in a higher power and organized religion and their numbers expand as time goes by. They increase, they do not dwindle.
Now as for the "non-religious" upbringings, several western constitutions make a case of pointing out that people have freedom
of religion and freedom
from religion, yet that has not done much to stop people from embracing various faiths, particularly Christianity and secondarily Islam. Yes, more people nowadays are secular than in the past, but the population as a whole still continues to grow - and along with it, the specific demographic of "people that believe in religion" continues to swell along with the population expansion. So in the end it is a flash in the pan.
It goes like this Sulaco: People need hope. People do not give up. People use religion for their own self gain. Henceforth, religion shall survive and thrive exponentially as time goes forth. The whole argument that time and technology hurt religion is completely invalid considering religion
co-opts technology - and even if people are proven wrong on an issue, they continue to believe they are right anyway. Speaking of time, they don't care about dates or times as well. It's 2013, so praise Yeezus and Hallelujah. Haven't you heard? God, they say, is eternal and his poorly translated word shall live on forever. And so it was written.
Quote from: "frosty"Evolution is a slow process - sometimes an extremely, extremely slow one. Now in the context of evolution, you foresee religion dying out, but what if it doesn't?
Somebody used quite frankly an awful argument by saying the Internet is killing religion. Wrong, the Internet is emboldening and validating religion. And disregarding the Internet, people in their minds simply do not want to give up. They. Just. Don't. I am trying to make my fellow Atheists here understand and accept that. Most people believe in a higher power and organized religion and their numbers expand as time goes by. They increase, they do not dwindle.
Overall I hear that religions are loosing members, not gaining them.
Quote from: "frosty"It goes like this Sulaco: People need hope. People do not give up. People use religion for their own self gain. Henceforth, religion shall survive and thrive exponentially as time goes forth. The whole argument that time and technology hurt religion is completely invalid considering religion co-opts technology - and even if people are proven wrong on an issue, they continue to believe they are right anyway. Speaking of time, they don't care about dates or times as well. It's 2013, so praise Yeezus and Hallelujah. Haven't you heard? God, they say, is eternal and his poorly translated word shall live on forever. And so it was written.
This is part of the difference between the evolved vs unevolved.. or so I like to think ;)
I don't believe I will live after death. I can accept that without the need for false hopes. I expect that as time passes by, more will come to the same conclusion and develop the means to accept reality in the natural world for what it is.
Or perhaps, as with other species, humans might branch into two sects.. and perhaps until such time as the two varients of future homosapiens might not be able to reproduce with each other. lol.
Quote from: "Sulaco"Overall I hear that religions are loosing members, not gaining them.
Well, hearing from word of mouth is not that reliable. I was looking for statistics to prove what I said about the population swelling, but I'm looking for a valid one and some of them have different numbers.
QuoteSo non-religious reproduces children who remain non-religious, and religious reproduces children who become religious? I don't think it works like that.. and I know more non-religious people of my generation who have religious parents, then religious people with religious parents.
You are twisting up words here Sulaco. It is not as black and white as that. Just because someone is young that does not mean they are going to be non-religious. That is a grave misconception and a logical fallacy.
QuoteI don't believe I will live after death. I can accept that without the need for false hopes.
Yes, you can accept that. Most people seem to not be able to. You might be different but they are not you and you are not them.
QuoteI expect that as time passes by, more will come to the same conclusion and develop the means to accept reality in the natural world for what it is.
Yes, that's the key word. You
expect based on your own preconceived mentality. You are expecting humans to do on a massive special planetary scale what they have never done in existence ever. My point with all my postings are that
you and other Atheists may think differently from religionists but that does not mean you control reality, that does not mean you can change what others think and that does not mean that just because you think in a futuristic context that others are going to pack their bags and follow suit. It doesn't work like that, and that's what you really need to understand. But then if I had a quarter for every time someone on the Internet thought what they believed was right, and was the future... then I'd probably have around 100 dollars. Something like that. Compartmentalization on the Internet leads to people having a skewed idea of how prominent their views really are.
QuoteOr perhaps, as with other species, humans might branch into two sects.. and perhaps until such time as the two varients of future homosapiens might not be able to reproduce with each other. lol.
That would probably take thousands if not millions of years to happen. I'm no expert on that subject but humans are known, and only known for all of recorded time to breed within our own species. You seem to want so bad to believe that religion is going to go away that you are starting to spew nonsense just so you can believe what you type.
Quote from: "frosty"Well, hearing from word of mouth is not that reliable. I was looking for statistics to prove what I said about the population swelling, but I'm looking for a valid one and some of them have different numbers.
Likewise. The information I had came from the church , from when I was affiliated with back in the dark times lol
Quote from: "frosty"QuoteSo non-religious reproduces children who remain non-religious, and religious reproduces children who become religious? I don't think it works like that.. and I know more non-religious people of my generation who have religious parents, then religious people with religious parents.
You are twisting up words here Sulaco. It is not as black and white as that. Just because someone is young that does not mean they are going to be non-religious. That is a grave misconception and a logical fallacy.
Yes I misinterpreted your point, hence why I removed it from my reponse afterward ;)
Quote from: "frosty"Yes, you can accept that. Most people seem to not be able to. You might be different but they are not you and you are not them.
Though logic and reason leads to that conjuncture. My point is that if beliefs in the supernatural is a subpart of evolution, then over time I'd expect humans to evolve to become more rational and logical in their reason.
Granted that 3000 years ago there probably wasn't anyone who rejected the supernatural over acceptance of death, that would suggest some progress made. Wouldn't you agree? :)
Quote from: "frosty"Yes, that's the key word. You expect based on your own preconceived mentality. You are expecting humans to do on a massive special planetary scale what they have never done in existence ever.
My expectations come from observation of atheism and secularism taking presidence in the world today that didn't exist several thousand years ago.
Quote from: "frosty"My point with all my postings are that you and other Atheists may think differently from religionists but that does not mean you control reality, that does not mean you can change what others think and that does not mean that just because you think in a futuristic context that others are going to pack their bags and follow suit. It doesn't work like that, and that's what you really need to understand.
What gave you the impression that it was my intent to change the minds of others?
I don't recall making any such statements that would suggest a form of "evangelism" to advocate a change, or conversion of others to my way of thinking lol
Quote from: "frosty"That would probably take thousands if not millions of years to happen. I'm no expert on that subject but humans are known, and only known for all of recorded time to breed within our own species. You seem to want so bad to believe that religion is going to go away that you are starting to spew nonsense just so you can believe what you type.
I'm not infering or believing anything .. just providing some light-hearted banter as to future possibilities, and my own observations. sheesh.
This is where I think I should stop now. I've made all the points I possibly can, and if you want to keep replying with the idea that religion is on the back-foot then that's your problem not mine. One more thing though:
This:
QuoteGranted that 3000 years ago there probably wasn't anyone who rejected the supernatural over acceptance of death, that would suggest some progress made. Wouldn't you agree? :)
Is basically the central point of your argument. That just because some people like yourself, overall a small number, are able to shed superstition that means that objectively as a whole religion is doomed to fail and soon. You are free to believe that if you wish but in reality it just doesn't add up. Like I said to you and basically all my other fellow Atheists, you can compartmentalize yourself all you want, you can circle jerk with others and isolate yourself and pretend what you oppose is going away but it isn't. In fact, in most trends it is growing. Deal with it, you can deal with it better when you actually accept what is going on.
It's pure magical thinking to believe religion will die out now or ever for that matter. Religion takes many forms and as pointed out is very opportunistic and will morph in time to make people believe as they often do in western culture their good fortune and better standards of living is a direct blessing from god(s).
Feel free to think religion is dying out. You're entitled to your opinion, but not your own facts about human nature.
Quote from: "AllPurposeAtheist"It's pure magical thinking to believe religion will die out now or ever for that matter. Religion takes many forms and as pointed out is very opportunistic and will morph in time to make people believe as they often do in western culture their good fortune and better standards of living is a direct blessing from god(s).
Feel free to think religion is dying out. You're entitled to your opinion, but not your own facts about human nature.
^^ this . Religion will not die . New bullshit will be invented .
Quote from: "SGOS"I don't believe that humanity slides toward freedom and equality as if it were a natural default state. I wonder sometimes if western style democracy might be just a temporary anomaly in the human condition.
Oppressive religions have a much more durable track record lasting for thousands of years with very little change.
I think there will always be a battle between collectivism and individualism, authoritarianism and liberalism, however the nature of the battle may well change. Once you give people private personal freedoms you can't just take them all away again, you can't put that genie back in the bottle, can you imagine the British Taliban forcing their way into peoples homes and smashing their television sets, i-pads and i-phones? We live in an era where smashing someones flatscreen TV or internet modem is about the closest thing to sacrilege you can get. That doesn't necessarily prevent a 21st century free society from reverting to an authoritarian society, it just precludes a free society reverting to a totalitarian society. The 21st century authoritarianism allows you personal freedoms, property rights, an acceptable standard of living, privacy and entertainment as long as you bow to the King and don't curse the authorities in public (e.g Russia, China, Azerbaijan, Syria etc). North Korea is an anomaly, once they transition from totalitarianism to authoritarianism they won't be able to switch back again, just as China can't revert to the days of Mao. Even the Ayatollah's in Iran have sensed the danger of an overtly totalitarian system, so they try to walk the thin line between authoritarianism and totalitarianism, they'll tolerate young women in Tehran wearing a loose fitting Hijab and brightly colored clothing because they sense the regimes vulnerability. They can't just flog the life out of girls with loose fitting hijab anymore, at least not in the capital, it would generate widespread resentment.
If the Muslim world embraces totalitarianism and religious fanaticism they will be reduced to a permanent state of economic, scientific and cultural poverty. In which case the solution is quarantine, they wouldn't be able to develop sufficient military power to conquer any western countries, leaving conversion as their only avenue of victory. I find it unlikely that most Muslims would embrace Taliban style totalitarianism, meaning that the system would have to be imposed. Despite Muslims calling fellow believers 'brothers' and sisters' religious fanaticism does not create a united front. Have you ever seen secular people getting into violent arguments about how long peoples beards should be or which incantations they need to utter whilst praying? Religious fanatics aren't just prone to attacking infidels, they will casually attack fellow believers and 'heretics' for slight deviations from dogma. I think that any future Islamic totalitarian state will inevitably be short lived, unless it's in an extremely poor and very rural country.
its a healthy discussion though but on the whole, religion is opium of the people. since the inception of this very world people had gone through different versions of god and religions. and the funny thing is that every time they thought they were right...
And i dont think any religion would fail in near future let alone ISLAM. topic is about islam so i would stick to it and wont deviate.
having followed islam for two long years consistently, meeting different people and knowing their thoughts, their doctrines, and their believes i came to a conclusion that they all are empty cans, all they know is shout and referred me to higher priests to clear my mind. but if it is so then why doesnt Islam fail? it has failed, believe me, but they (the feudal lords of islam) living in saudi pays handsomely to maintain the so called structure of islam. same is the case with sects within the islam for instance shias. having their lords in Iran. its a power game and minority is exploited, as always. they are nothing but an army ready to die in the name of god and islam will last until its defeated.
Quote from: "Floydian"its a healthy discussion though but on the whole, religion is opium of the people. since the inception of this very world people had gone through different versions of god and religions. and the funny thing is that every time they thought they were right...
And i dont think any religion would fail in near future let alone ISLAM. topic is about islam so i would stick to it and wont deviate.
having followed islam for two long years consistently, meeting different people and knowing their thoughts, their doctrines, and their believes i came to a conclusion that they all are empty cans, all they know is shout and referred me to higher priests to clear my mind. but if it is so then why doesnt Islam fail? it has failed, believe me, but they (the feudal lords of islam) living in saudi pays handsomely to maintain the so called structure of islam. same is the case with sects within the islam for instance shias. having their lords in Iran. its a power game and minority is exploited, as always. they are nothing but an army ready to die in the name of god and islam will last until its defeated.
Agree. There is too much power and wealth attached to religion to assume it will go gently into the night, any religion. My experience with religion is that the majority are "empty cans" (nice metaphor) Imams and Arab sheikhs that enjoy the level of autonomy they do are not going to let their power go easily.
As an Atheist I've been called an empty shell quite a few times before - the ASSumption the religionist(s) make is that since I don't agree with their very subjective beliefs on life, that I must be an awful and empty person. Yet they always seem to omit their own flaws, their own mistakes, their own feelings of emptiness. On the contrary, I myself no longer feel empty, I have matured in life and realized that I should appreciate the time I have to be alive and that I should not take anything for granted because any day could very well be my last.
Quote from: "frosty"Is basically the central point of your argument. That just because some people like yourself, overall a small number
I'm in a country where the majority of the population aren't religious.
So I think it's a matter of perspective.
I'm assuming you're from a country where religion is predominant? Perhaps the US?
Quote from: "frosty", are able to shed superstition that means that objectively as a whole religion is doomed to fail and soon.
I never said it was going to happen soon. I said it will happen over a long period of time, as I attribute religion to be a part of evolution.
Quote from: "frosty"You are free to believe that if you wish but in reality it just doesn't add up.
The reality is that neither of us will know the outcome. It's just one theory vs another, based on the information we have available to us. It seems that your perspective and mine are in opposition to one another.. and that's fine.
The thread has already been resolved, Sulaco. Please stop multi quoting posts just so you can win an argument.
Quote from: "AllPurposeAtheist"It's pure magical thinking to believe religion will die out now or ever for that matter. Religion takes many forms and as pointed out is very opportunistic and will morph in time to make people believe as they often do in western culture their good fortune and better standards of living is a direct blessing from god(s).
Feel free to think religion is dying out. You're entitled to your opinion, but not your own facts about human nature.
No no no, evolution does not care if you invent and fact find or make shit up. Evolution is only about getting to the point of reproduction.
When I say "Islam will fail", I mean like the dark ages of Christianity did. Of course religion will exist. Scientology was started by a si fi writer. It also should not shock anyone if a religion was started around "Star Wars".
I am saying secularism will put enough cracks in Islam long term that it will have to adapt or die. If it adapts like Christianity had to, it will not be the political fascism that controls the east.
But no matter what it is highly unlikely in 70,000 years if our species is still here that all the modern monotheism will exist.
I simply don't see how the government's of Islam will grow or compete with dark age thinking.
Hmmm...testing signature
Ahhhh...works.