If unfamiliar with the term, Eschatology (//http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eschatology) is part of Theology concerned with what are believed to be the final events of history. Just about all religions have their version as they have their versions of creation.
I am sure we have all heard numerous accounts of the end of the world that have come and gone and will continue to do so. They have all ostensibly been based on prophecy of some kind or another and have all proven to be failures of prediction in every case.
The current conflict in Syria has generated a new round of end of the world proclamations. (//http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/09/14/syria-conflict-armageddon_n_3923123.html)
My interest is not so much in the specific predictions or prophecies but in the psychology behind why this is so prevalent in humans. In a way I suppose it might be a projection of our individual deaths but nevertheless it seems pathological to me.
Any thoughts?
I'm not scared of Revelations, its' the pygmalion effect which scares me. In other words, people doing what is expected of them and if a battle at Armageddon is needed to do what is expected of them, then a battle there will be. There are people actively seeking the end of the world as we know it, and if they can make it happen, so much the better in their minds.
Quote from: "LikelyToBreak"I'm not scared of Revelations, its' the pygmalion effect which scares me. In other words, people doing what is expected of them and if a battle at Armageddon is needed to do what is expected of them, then a battle there will be. There are people actively seeking the end of the world as we know it, and if they can make it happen, so much the better in their minds.
The danger of self-fulfilling prophecy. Equally pathological.
It's just the same mythology they apply to the past, applied to the future. Fear of accepting the unknown as unknown.
But self fulfillment isn't necessarily literal. It can be the general pessimism about the future as well.
Quote from: "Solomon Zorn"It's just the same mythology they apply to the past, applied to the future. Fear of accepting the unknown as unknown.
But self fulfillment isn't necessarily literal. It can be the general pessimism about the future as well.
I wonder about the pessimism since a lot of the end of times myths are centered around some judgment, spiritual renewal (Rapture) and eternal afterlife of milk and honey so to speak. However, on the other hand I know what you mean by pessimism as it is almost a death wish and the thought of self fulfillment it even more so.
It would be odd that if only one culture in history had some myth about end times but it is even more strange that virtually all of them have had it.
I despise the Revelation of John. All that bullshit about the "beast" ruling the world makes them all scared of anything that looks like secular world unity. The crap about judgement day and non-believers burning in hell. The plagues. The holy wars. The vague symbols. The whole thing is despicable. [-X
Oh, and I've heard it used as an excuse why we're not going to need all those fossil fuels in the future. The world isn't going to be around. :Hangman:
My personal theory, for which I have no objective data, is that fantasies of "end times" give people who feel threatened by large scale forces they don't completely understand a sense of power and control. In a world of chaos, confusion and sin the thought that a savior will return, destroy evil and restore order is seductive. No matter how bad things appear, there is a plan and everything will be okay in the end. This narrative provides a pattern to events we cannot understand, and our brains are constantly trying to find patterns and make sense of our world. It plays to inherent values of justice/retribution, bad people may be in charge now but one day they will pay. It also appeals to a sense of purity, the universe will return to a more perfect state, we can start over clean and new. It can also appeal to a sense of self-importance: the believer has special knowledge of the future, will witness unprecedented catastrophic events and is generally immune to this destruction.
Science has shown that the world will end some day, and I'm surprised the true believers don't jump on the band wagon and say: "See we told you the Bible was right!" :shock: So they are actually only about 40-50 billion years off on their prediction. :lol: :popcorn: Solitary
Quote from: "Solomon Zorn"Oh, and I've heard it used as an excuse why we're not going to need all those fossil fuels in the future. The world isn't going to be around. :Hangman:
An old Arab expression is apropos: "Trust in Allah but tie up your camel."
Quote from: "GSOgymrat"It plays to inherent values of justice/retribution, bad people may be in charge now but one day they will pay.
I think this is a very strong motivation for religion in general (or at least one motivation). The thought that a guy like Hitler, Stalin or Jack the Ripper managed to do the heinous things they did with impunity somehow violates a universal sense of fairness. If these people cannot be punished in life then they must be punished in the afterlife by some cosmic judge that transcends all time and space. Obviously, there is no evidence that such a thing is true but the compelling nature of people wanting fairness and justice is so strong that it serves to create this type of myth.
Quote from: "Solitary"Science has shown that the world will end some day, and I'm surprised the true believers don't jump on the band wagon and say: "See we told you the Bible was right!" :shock: So they are actually only about 40-50 billion years off on their prediction. :lol: :popcorn: Solitary
It seems to be true from what we understand about entropy but we cannot know for sure the fate of the universe except in so far as extrapolating the expansion of the universe to the point where all heat energy is dissipated (no thermodynamic energy). But do we know this as an absolute fact? Probably no more than we know what happened at the instant of the Big Bang or before.
In reality, the absolute beginning and end of the universe is incomprehensible to us from the vantage point that we have in it currently. And none of that obviously has really influenced the mythologies that religions have created over the beginning and end of existence. Mainly because they were born of complete scientific ignorance. Basically, they made shit up. And any prognostications that stem from made up shit are going to be equally full of shit. Most of the myths were created thousands of years ago in a period darker than the dark ages.
The point that interests me is why the necessity of even making such predictions that would effect us in human scale (not in cosmic scale)?
Quote from: "Solomon Zorn"I despise the Revelation of John. All that bullshit about the "beast" ruling the world makes them all scared of anything that looks like secular world unity. The crap about judgement day and non-believers burning in hell. The plagues. The holy wars. The vague symbols. The whole thing is despicable. [-X
Oh, and I've heard it used as an excuse why we're not going to need all those fossil fuels in the future. The world isn't going to be around. :Hangman:
A stuffy old Christian lady once told me that newcomers to Christianity should not be encouraged to read Revelations until they have become established in their faith and are ready to understand it.
Translation: You won't be able to believe such bullshit unless you have successfully let go of the logic you once had and are willing to accept any cockamamie thought imaginable.
You guys have made some pretty good points. One point I have not heard raised, was that Revelations was pretty much about Nero and the predictions failed. Not that Christians give a damn.
Anyway, an astronomer was giving a lecture and mentioned that the Andromeda galaxy would one day run into our milky way galaxy. One member of the audience came up afterward and asked him if he could say when it was going to happen again, because he wasn't sure he heard right. The astronomer said it would happen about five billion years from now. The audience member let out a sigh of relief and said, "Oh good, I thought you said five million years from now."
Quote from: "GSOgymrat"...This narrative provides a pattern to events we cannot understand, and our brains are constantly trying to find patterns and make sense of our world...
I think that's a good explanation for religion in general. I think that is what religion was for me, anyway. :-k
Quote from: "Solomon Zorn"I despise the Revelation of John. All that bullshit about the "beast" ruling the world makes them all scared of anything that looks like secular world unity. The crap about judgement day and non-believers burning in hell. The plagues. The holy wars. The vague symbols. The whole thing is despicable. [-X
Oh, and I've heard it used as an excuse why we're not going to need all those fossil fuels in the future. The world isn't going to be around. :Hangman:
Don't forget about the multiple-headed monsters coming up out of the ocean! :lol: Ridiculous imagery designed to frighten children and the gullible.