From an email:
Why people believe in this or that god has been a subject of great debate among philosophers and scientists. No definite answers have been found for why people believe in gods generally or some particular god over other alleged gods, but nearly all fields of study have contributed to an array of factors which influence how and what we believe when it comes to religion.
People don't wait until they're adults to pick one religion or god from all the options, concluding from various pieces of evidence that one is superior to the others in a manner similar to how they pick a car, house, or television. Even in those latter cases, people are influenced by many different factors and don't make their decisions based solely on the weight of logic or evidence — and we know that many of those factors are unconscious. How much more important might those influences be with religion and theism?
Family Influence on Belief in God
A person's family is probably the most direct and important influence on a person's religion and what they believe about gods. Although it's not the case that everyone slavishly adopts the exact same beliefs as parents and grandparents, it is the case that people generally keep the beliefs they're raised with. Most people raised as Christians remain Christians throughout their lives. Most Muslims were raised as Muslims and most Jews were raised as Jews.
You don't get this sort of consistency with the brand of car a person drives, just religion. The beliefs people are taught as children and which are continually reinforced will become background assumptions once a person becomes an adult — assumptions which aren't generally questioned, much less abandoned. So the biggest reason why a person believes in God and holds particular beliefs about God is that their families hold generally similar beliefs.
Cultural Influence on Belief in God
If families influence a person's belief religion and theism, then of course the wider culture will as well — after all, culture is ultimately a product of the beliefs, practices, and traditions of all the families in a society. Sometimes a culture will reinforce whatever beliefs a family teaches; sometimes a culture will contradict what a family teaches at home.
In the latter situation, many families work extra hard to overcome the influence of culture in order to ensure that their religion is adopted by kids without "corrupting" elements. In the former situation, families enjoy the security of knowing that whatever they teach about religion and God will be reflected and strengthened all around without any extra effort on their part.
This is an important reason why societies tend to be dominated by a single religion: Christianity dominates in America, Islam dominates in Egypt, Hinduism dominates in India, etc. The most important thing a culture can do for religion is to make elements of that religion seem so natural that they are placed beyond choice or question. This ensures that they become assumptions that people take for granted instead of subjects of questioning and debates.
National & Political Influence on Belief in God
Closely related to culture are the political influences on religion and theism. The primary difference is that political influence work more the force of law and government in ways that culture cannot. Both culture and politics have a lot of power, but they are very different kinds of power and they are exercised in different ways.
Sometimes the exercise of political influence is overt, like through school children being expected to recite the Pledge of Allegiance every day or government sponsorship of nativity scenes during the Christmas holidays. Sometimes the influence is more subtle, for example laws and policies that make particular religious practices easier. The more overt and explicit the influence attempts to be, the closer a society comes to some form of theocracy.
I disagree with all of this. The reason people believe in God is because they want to control there lives by believing magical thinking is the answer to life's problems, and ignorance is bliss. They can't handle the brutality of life or the pain and suffering without a Magic Man in the sky that is watching over them like mommy and daddy did. In other words, they don't want to be responsible adults that make mistake and feel guilty for them. "The devil made me do it." "I follow Jesus and know I'm right if I do." "I'm a better person than those that don't follow Jesus or believe the same way I do." Solitary
What it boils down to is that you believe in the god you've been raised to believe in (if you fall for it). Whether it's family, culture or nation is an irrelevant detail. It's the Black Death, but the doctors are studying which direction people fall down in when they die.
Karl Marx had it about right.......
" Religion is the sigh of the oppressed creature, the heart of a heartless world, just as it is the spirit of a spiritless situation. It is the opium of the people. The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions."
Karl Marx, Critique of Hegel's Philosophy of Right
Everybody uses drugs legal or illegal, mentally or physically,religion is one of the worst
Do you think I could mount a case with your DEA to reclassify religion from a constitutional right to a harmful hallucinogenic that when taken/believed causes delusion and paranoia! :) :)
I think it is a comfortable delusion. Let's face it, we are all delusional about something. Even the best of us still have delusions, we just recognize them for what they are. With religion, you get outside reinforcement for your delusions. Which makes you less likely to question your delusional state.
Reality is not very attractive for most people. We're born, suffer various types of pain, and then die. Our standing in our communities is never satisfying. Our mates are never attractive enough, and we are uglier than we tend to think we are. I could go on, but I think you get the point.
With religion, we are given a purpose for our suffering. Dying just means moving someplace else. You are one of God's chosen, so it doesn't matter your place in the community. When you move on, after death, your given a perfectly beautiful body and your mate will have one too. Pretty neat deal eh? Just say the magic words and bingo, you have it all.
It is kind of a wonder, more people don't embrace some religion.
Quote from: "LikelyToBreak"Even the best of us still have delusions, we just recognize them for what they are.
There's a difference between thinking that it would be nice if we could come back after we die, and believing that we actually do. One is just a thought, the other is a delusion.
Religion is about control through implication of guilt. Make people believe they are bad or wrong in their behavior (sinful) and then convince them they need to follow a set of dogmatic principles to be saved.
Before I called myself an atheist, I think what made me want to hold on to the god-belief was a fear of death and that I wanted to feel like someone was there(the idea made me feel less alone and that there must be someone out there, besides mommy, who was concerned about me).
I would love to believe in God. I think it would be nice to be convinced that no matter what happens, it is all for a greater purpose and it will all work out in the end. The bad people will pay for being bad and the good people will be rewarded, that there is justice. I want to believe there is life that is eternal and I am something more than a bunch of cells slowly dying away without purpose. I would love to believe that somebody knows my heart, that someone cares for me unconditionally, that when I ask for help or guidance someone is listening. I want to believe that when my loved ones die that they are not gone forever. I want to believe I can be forgiven for my failures. I want to believe I am not alone.
I think that I why some people believe in God.
Quote from: "Skaði"Before I called myself an atheist, I think what made me want to hold on to the god-belief was a fear of death and that I wanted to feel like someone was there(the idea made me feel less alone and that there must be someone out there, besides mommy, who was concerned about me).
I know what you mean. When I was very young I feared death, but then I only feared it thinking I would sill be alive after which is a delusion, therefore it is an imaginary fear. However, since I've been dying many times in my life by accident, and in unbelievable pain and sickness, I'm afraid of dying and the finality of it when it happens because you die alone, and I can't shake the dread of it, so I try not to think about it and keep busy. Even though I know intellectually it isn't something to fear if I just let go, I still hang on for dear life. It's a really strange experience, very similar to getting too high on really strong marijuana, but then you just go to sleep if you relax. :shock: Maybe it's the same thing but never wake up again. :( Solitary
Quote from: "Solitary"I know what you mean. When I was very young I feared death, but then I only feared it thinking I would sill be alive after which is a delusion, therefore it is an imaginary fear. However, since I've been dying many times in my life by accident, and in unbelievable pain and sickness, I'm afraid of dying and the finality of it when it happens because you die alone, and I can't shake the dread of it, so I try not to think about it and keep busy. Even though I know intellectually it isn't something to fear if I just let go, I still hang on for dear life. It's a really strange experience, very similar to getting too high on really strong marijuana, but then you just go to sleep if you relax. :shock: Maybe it's the same thing but never wake up again. :( Solitary
I used to have this sort of thought process that if I believed something, and millions of other people believed with me, then it would be true. I picked my favorite religion(Hinduism) and held on to it for that reason :(
I know it makes no sense to fear something like death, but I still do sometimes. Only time I don't is when I go into periods of depression, then I'm more comfortable with it(not for suicidal reasons) :-?
Quote from: "stromboli"Religion is about control through implication of guilt. Make people believe they are bad or wrong in their behavior (sinful) and then convince them they need to follow a set of dogmatic principles to be saved.
This seems like the most cynical view of the question. It's a bit like saying Republicans want less spenton government welfare programs because they just don't give a shit about people who aren't successful like they are. I've known a lot of Republicans who demonstrated their commitment to helping those less fortunate week in week out for years.
I watched a youtube video of Julia Sweeney speaking on her life as a Catholic. She really got a lot from the ceremonies and enjoyed it all very much. Yes, in the end she realized that the beliefs they held were rather wacky, but the religion did give her a lot too.
People like the idea of an ultimate justice, especially since most of us feel we've been wronged. I know I've been watching too many videos lately, but another I saw today was titled "richard Dawkins gets owned by a Christian", something like that anyway. Yea the Christian was a decent debater, but his argument was a rehash of the "can science answer the question of how the universe started". No? Then god might have done it. Of course Dawkins asks how God came to be. The answer "he's always been there". Of course too is the "there is so much injustice in the world, surely there is some ultimate justice otherwise it is all so unfair". You can guess the kind of response Dawkins made to that. Anyway that's how much of the debate went. Christians thought they did well and atheists disagreed. But we do love to see something approaching fairness in life and we like to answer questions like how did it all begin and why did that bad thing happen to those good people with a "god will make it clear to us in the next life".
Quote from: "Solitary"From an email:
Why people believe in this or that god has been a subject of great debate among philosophers and scientists. No definite answers have been found for why people believe in gods generally or some particular god over other alleged gods, but nearly all fields of study have contributed to an array of factors which influence how and what we believe when it comes to religion.
People don't wait until they're adults to pick one religion or god from all the options, concluding from various pieces of evidence that one is superior to the others in a manner similar to how they pick a car, house, or television. Even in those latter cases, people are influenced by many different factors and don't make their decisions based solely on the weight of logic or evidence — and we know that many of those factors are unconscious. How much more important might those influences be with religion and theism?
Family Influence on Belief in God
A person's family is probably the most direct and important influence on a person's religion and what they believe about gods. Although it's not the case that everyone slavishly adopts the exact same beliefs as parents and grandparents, it is the case that people generally keep the beliefs they're raised with. Most people raised as Christians remain Christians throughout their lives. Most Muslims were raised as Muslims and most Jews were raised as Jews.
You don't get this sort of consistency with the brand of car a person drives, just religion. The beliefs people are taught as children and which are continually reinforced will become background assumptions once a person becomes an adult — assumptions which aren't generally questioned, much less abandoned. So the biggest reason why a person believes in God and holds particular beliefs about God is that their families hold generally similar beliefs.
Cultural Influence on Belief in God
If families influence a person's belief religion and theism, then of course the wider culture will as well — after all, culture is ultimately a product of the beliefs, practices, and traditions of all the families in a society. Sometimes a culture will reinforce whatever beliefs a family teaches; sometimes a culture will contradict what a family teaches at home.
In the latter situation, many families work extra hard to overcome the influence of culture in order to ensure that their religion is adopted by kids without "corrupting" elements. In the former situation, families enjoy the security of knowing that whatever they teach about religion and God will be reflected and strengthened all around without any extra effort on their part.
This is an important reason why societies tend to be dominated by a single religion: Christianity dominates in America, Islam dominates in Egypt, Hinduism dominates in India, etc. The most important thing a culture can do for religion is to make elements of that religion seem so natural that they are placed beyond choice or question. This ensures that they become assumptions that people take for granted instead of subjects of questioning and debates.
National & Political Influence on Belief in God
Closely related to culture are the political influences on religion and theism. The primary difference is that political influence work more the force of law and government in ways that culture cannot. Both culture and politics have a lot of power, but they are very different kinds of power and they are exercised in different ways.
Sometimes the exercise of political influence is overt, like through school children being expected to recite the Pledge of Allegiance every day or government sponsorship of nativity scenes during the Christmas holidays. Sometimes the influence is more subtle, for example laws and policies that make particular religious practices easier. The more overt and explicit the influence attempts to be, the closer a society comes to some form of theocracy.
I disagree with all of this. The reason people believe in God is because they want to control there lives by believing magical thinking is the answer to life's problems, and ignorance is bliss. They can't handle the brutality of life or the pain and suffering without a Magic Man in the sky that is watching over them like mommy and daddy did. In other words, they don't want to be responsible adults that make mistake and feel guilty for them. "The devil made me do it." "I follow Jesus and know I'm right if I do." "I'm a better person than those that don't follow Jesus or believe the same way I do." Solitary
I believe that people believe in jesus because they are culturally and institutionally brainwashed. I think that most of them believe for those reasons.
Quote from: "GSOgymrat"I would love to believe in God. I think it would be nice to be convinced that no matter what happens, it is all for a greater purpose and it will all work out in the end. The bad people will pay for being bad and the good people will be rewarded, that there is justice. I want to believe there is life that is eternal and I am something more than a bunch of cells slowly dying away without purpose. I would love to believe that somebody knows my heart, that someone cares for me unconditionally, that when I ask for help or guidance someone is listening. I want to believe that when my loved ones die that they are not gone forever. I want to believe I can be forgiven for my failures. I want to believe I am not alone.
I think that I why some people believe in God.
I think you are correct, but what about the kind (magical) of thinking that allows people to believe it is all factual, and why would they have to belong to an organization to believe that for support? And how is it comforting to Christians to believe in an all powerful God that can send them to hell unless they placate Him, not just be a good person, as shown in the Bible. Solitary
Why do people believe un god?
Because they're stupid.
Quote from: "Skaði"Quote from: "Solitary"I know what you mean. When I was very young I feared death, but then I only feared it thinking I would sill be alive after which is a delusion, therefore it is an imaginary fear. However, since I've been dying many times in my life by accident, and in unbelievable pain and sickness, I'm afraid of dying and the finality of it when it happens because you die alone, and I can't shake the dread of it, so I try not to think about it and keep busy. Even though I know intellectually it isn't something to fear if I just let go, I still hang on for dear life. It's a really strange experience, very similar to getting too high on really strong marijuana, but then you just go to sleep if you relax. :shock: Maybe it's the same thing but never wake up again. :( Solitary
I used to have this sort of thought process that if I believed something, and millions of other people believed with me, then it would be true. I picked my favorite religion(Hinduism) and held on to it for that reason :(
I know it makes no sense to fear something like death, but I still do sometimes. Only time I don't is when I go into periods of depression, then I'm more comfortable with it(not for suicidal reasons) :-?
It's strange you said that, because I have always preferred feeling depressed rather than scared. I've always had the feeling that everyone knows something I don't and I'm the only one that doesn't. :shock: :lol: We have evolved to be afraid of danger, that is the reason we have survived. It's called the fight or flight response, and whatever we think our body responds with the feeling evoked by the thought. Have good thoughts-good feelings-bad thoughts-bad feelings. So think good thoughts, even outrageous ones, if they make you feel good. It's that simple, but also that hard to do, but it can be done unless you are really in danger. Take care! Solitary
Quote from: "the_antithesis"Why do people believe un god?
Because they're stupid.
:rollin: :rollin: :rollin: I really didn't want to say that. Solitary
Quote from: "Eric1958"I watched a youtube video of Julia Sweeney speaking on her life as a Catholic. She really got a lot from the ceremonies and enjoyed it all very much. Yes, in the end she realized that the beliefs they held were rather wacky, but the religion did give her a lot too.
I know that part of her presentation well. Sweeney seems to handle her life with a grace that I don't have. She not only loved the ceremony and ritual, but also liked other aspects of her faith as well. The very title of her monolog "Letting Go of God" describes her journey well. She loved something with heartfelt warmth, but when she realized that her religion was betraying her, she simply let it go, and drifted away to reality. I suspect she may still have warm feelings for her Catholic experience, but just as she may still have warm feelings toward an unfaithful lover, she comes to a realization that letting go and gracefully drifting away is the healthiest solution, even if it looks back with a certain fondness.
I don't have such grace. My journey was not a letting go. I felt like I had become engulfed in a sea of melted mozzarella cheese that had glommed onto my extremities so that I had to struggle to get away, and as I did, these long rubbery strings of mozzarella kept preventing me from making significant progress. I was stuck in quagmire that I hated. I thought the ritual and ceremony was utterly boring, but the worst part was the nonsensical dogma and this bizarre hold that indoctrination had on me. I didn't let go. I fought tooth and nail to get away. But the horrible monster of religious indoctrination followed me, slowing me down until finally the last string of cheese severed and I found myself free.
Julia separated herself from something she had learned to love. I separated myself from a nightmare that took forever to wake up from. Her story is much sweeter than mine.
The idea of a single god seems to be something of a recent development. Ive never heard of any of our nomadic ancestors worshipping a single god.
I don't think its a coincidence that the idea of a single god came about at roughly the same time humans started to live in large cities. One ruler became the focal point, and in places like ancient Egypt this person was considered divine.
The notion that someone is always watching you is a very powerful idea, and no doubt very appealing if you wanted to control people.
The Pharaohs had this funny habit of trying to get rid of monuments built by previous Pharaohs in an attempt to convince the people that the current Pharaoh has and always will be in charge. Kind of autocratic if you ask me.
Quote from: "Cocoa Beware"The idea of a single god seems to be something of a recent development. Ive never heard of any of our nomadic ancestors worshipping a single god.
I don't think its a coincidence that the idea of a single god came about at roughly the same time humans started to live in large cities. One ruler became the focal point, and in places like ancient Egypt this person was considered divine.
So explain why Akhenaten was the only pharaoh to introduce monotheism (ca 1350 BCE) and why it failed to take hold. Just in the New Kingdom, that's 3 dynasties, covering a period of over 500 years. And that's not counting over 2,000 years of the other kingdoms, during which Egypt had large cities and was polytheistic. 17 years of monotheism out of 2,500 years of cities, a single ruler and polytheism.
Even the Canaanites, whose descendents eventually wrote the Old Testament while in exile in Babylon, were polytheistic until they invented monotheism. And they were among the early Neolithic herders and farmers, not nomads.
Quote from: "Cocoa Beware"The idea of a single god seems to be something of a recent development. Ive never heard of any of our nomadic ancestors worshipping a single god.
I don't think its a coincidence that the idea of a single god came about at roughly the same time humans started to live in large cities. One ruler became the focal point, and in places like ancient Egypt this person was considered divine.
The notion that someone is always watching you is a very powerful idea, and no doubt very appealing if you wanted to control people.
The Pharaohs had this funny habit of trying to get rid of monuments built by previous Pharaohs in an attempt to convince the people that the current Pharaoh has and always will be in charge. Kind of autocratic if you ask me.
[youtube:2v9zm196]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MlnnWbkMlbg[/youtube:2v9zm196]
Why do people believe in God?
Because they are scared. That's why.
Quote from: "LikelyToBreak"Reality is not very attractive for most people. We're born, suffer various types of pain, and then die. Our standing in our communities is never satisfying. Our mates are never attractive enough, and we are uglier than we tend to think we are. I could go on, but I think you get the point.
Yes, we do suffer various types of pain in between birth and death, but we also (hopefully) find much greater amounts of love and joy. Not having a satisfying standing in our communities, not finding yourself or your mate as attractive enough are all symptoms of the years of religious dogma that paints humanity as some "deprived" monster. You'll never be good enough for god.
QuoteWith religion, we are given a purpose for our suffering.
What purpose? So god gets a laugh?
What good reason could god have for inflicting children with terminal cancer? What good reason could he have for even allowing it? QuoteDying just means moving someplace else.
"If I knew I had another life after this one, I'd kill myself right now" -Bender
If we just go somewhere else then why are we here and not there?
QuoteYou are one of God's chosen, so it doesn't matter your place in the community. When you move on, after death, your given a perfectly beautiful body and your mate will have one too. Pretty neat deal eh? Just say the magic words and bingo, you have it all.
Well if the life after this one is so much better, then why not put a bullet in your head? God outlaws suicide? So the kids with cancer are the ones who have it easy? The ones who starve to death before they turn 5 have it the best because they don't have to potentially go through 70+ years of life to get to heaven? They got the express ticket? No, life after death ROBS VALUE from this one. The infinite has NO value. If life is infinite, it is not precious. The only way you get someone to strap a bomb to themselves or fly a plane into a building is to tell them that death isn't the end.
QuoteIt is kind of a wonder, more people don't embrace some religion.
You mean, like, the 70% of the people in my country? No, it's a wonder how more people don't accept science. The REAL universe is filled with far more beauty and wonder than any bronze goat herder could possibly have pulled out of his ass. Galaxies, black holes, neutron stars, magnetrons, and supernova, all the way down to quarks, photons, and microwave background radiation from the
beginning of the universe! To me, that kicks the shit out of some 6,000 year old playground for a capricious god who would lay waste to his creation because they didn't do what he said.
One of my biggest pet peeves is sympathy towards the ignorance that is faith and theology. I do wholeheartedly believe that religion poisons everything.
Some simply "Feel it in their heart."
To put it quite bluntly, because people (formerly myself) are afraid to accept the realistic correct view of people like us. I want so badly to go back to believing what I once did. My life would be better I think. I wouldn't have the burden of being a closeted atheist afraid of family and friends disowning me. A big reason why I wish I could believe is because of my grandfather who passed away. I would give everything I have to spend another hour with that man. He's gone and I'm never going to see him again except in my memories. This is why people believe. I'm tearing up because of that sentence and I really do wish so much I could have that comfort of being able to think that I'd get to see him again. I'm just not stupid but I really wish I was. As many things as religion fucks up, that comfort you get from it is irreplaceable. I miss the comfort, I really do.
But hey, at least I get to spend time with you guys on this forum and hell in the future :wink:
Quote from: "ZachyFTW"A big reason why I wish I could believe is because of my grandfather who passed away. I would give everything I have to spend another hour with that man. He's gone and I'm never going to see him again except in my memories.
I feel the same way about my Great Grandfather who passed away a little under a year ago. I had breakdown in my car outside of Starbucks one morning because it really set in that I was never going to see him again. A man so filled with joy and love gone forever, just like everyone else will be.
I, too, wish there was some way to meet loved ones on "the other side" but that's all it is. Wishful thinking. Besides, is it REALLY worth all of the hate-speech and ignorance just to get this tiny bit of comfort?
Why can't you believe that you'll see him after death anyway? We don't
know what happens after death. We may very well live on in some form. You don't have to go to church every Sunday to worship some hate filled and misogynistic deity.
QuoteSo explain why Akhenaten was the only pharaoh to introduce monotheism (ca 1350 BCE) and why it failed to take hold. Just in the New Kingdom, that's 3 dynasties, covering a period of over 500 years. And that's not counting over 2,000 years of the other kingdoms, during which Egypt had large cities and was polytheistic. 17 years of monotheism out of 2,500 years of cities, a single ruler and polytheism.
Even the Canaanites, whose descendents eventually wrote the Old Testament while in exile in Babylon, were polytheistic until they invented monotheism. And they were among the early Neolithic herders and farmers, not nomads
No doubt, the Romans and Vikings were also polytheistic.
However, if we assume humans were primarily animalistic for many tens (or hundreds) of thousands of years, the shift is rather dramatic.
Was this new god (who was a rather insanely jealous and paranoid character) a reflection of some of the more ruthless heads of state? What role did politics play in this gods evolution?
Was having one god with all the abilities of the lesser gods more convenient somehow? Did this new singular god make people easier to exploit? Was it more intimidating?
[youtube:3ddv8909]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MlnnWbkMlbg[/youtube:3ddv8909]
Interesting. Although I suppose its hardly surprising that conflict was a significant factor.
It was also interesting how even in those days they had it set up so god always won.
Victory/defeat in battle was viewed as reward/punishment. That kind of re-enforcement continues today.