Do you sometimes pretend to compromise with your "believes", in order to reach some sort of rational thinking within your religious opponent in a debate?
What would a compromise between rational thinking and irrational thinking be?
That's the question....as a rational thinking person you CAN'T compromise, which is why we come off as arrogant and aggressive. They can compromise and do it all the time, by trying to explain and fit in ridiculous claims with science. The problem is, that the more you stand your ground and don't try to understand them (with good reason), the more defensive they get. How will you ever break through to them then, without trying to reach some common ground.
It's SO much easier to try and make your fairy tale fit with reality, than it is for reality to fit with a fairy tale.
I had a debate with someone recently, where I tried to explain why Atheists usually come off that way and he actually understood it in the end (i think), which was great. The way we see it it, is like discussing whether reality or batman is real. That's why we don't see it as an equal argument. To us, an equal argument, would be whether batman or superman is real.
Quote from: "TheOpinionator"That's the question....as a rational thinking person you CAN'T compromise, which is why we come off as arrogant and aggressive.
I think you're promoting an idea that might have good intentions, but is not doable. People have opinions about other people. They have opinions about us. We have opinions about them. That's just the way it is. We may come off as arrogant or aggressive to some people. Sometimes we deserve that perception. Sometimes we don't.
We had Christopher Hitchens, who undoubtedly came off as arrogant and aggressive. They had Jerry Falwell, who matched Hitchens in arrogance and aggression. If they want to get arrogant and aggressive about their superstitions, then I guess they will have to deal with our arrogance and aggression about reality.
Quote from: "TheOpinionator"I had a debate with someone recently, where I tried to explain why Atheists usually come off that way and he actually understood it in the end (i think), which was great. The way we see it it, is like discussing whether reality or batman is real. That's why we don't see it as an equal argument.
It's not an equivalent argument, nor should it be. Each argument is based on a different way of testing the very argument itself. Theists often see an argument when the skeptic asks for evidence. To them it's an argument, when it's nothing more than a request for evidence. That's hardly arrogant. It's a simple request, but they get discombobulated over it. What are you gonna do? :-D
Believe me, I fully agree and have not myself ever compromised, saying stuff like...well, maybe he walked on water a little bit:D...Was just trying to see if anyone have had any success with that approach. I must admit, that I mostly go into these discussions, just for the fun of it, but sometimes also in the hopes to plant a little seed of doubt in their conscience. Especially if they're young.
I think the biggest nut to crack for young theists, is to realize that their parents have not been telling them the truth and I can understand why that would be a really hard thing to realize. We're "programmed" to shelter ourselves for anything that can be devastating, which is why you'll find perfectly intelligent people, who out of necessity "choose" to be irrational when it comes to what they've been taugst by the people they love the most.
QuoteBelieve me, I fully agree and have not myself ever compromised, saying stuff like...well, maybe he walked on water a little bit
It's might work to "compromise" on the rational parts of the religion. I mean; the Ten Commandments are mostly silly, but there's some good stuff in there.
You just gloss over the fact that the "good stuff" is far older than the bible.
I compromised with my ex when she insisted she was just a little pregnant and sure enough she gave birth to a little human. TWICE! :shock:
I don't debate. There is no debate.
I never compromise with theists! I take that back. I did twice with my wife when we got married in a Church, and when I raised my two sons as Catholics. Thank God they both became atheists. :shock: :-D Solitary
I don't think I do.
I might make a concession given evidence, but believers believing in things that are contrary to evidence that's doubtful.
Quote from: "TheOpinionator"Do you sometimes pretend to compromise with your "believes", in order to reach some sort of rational thinking within your religious opponent in a debate?
It's not a question of pretending to compromise but to select your battles wisely. Certain battles are not worth the time and effort. Someone greeting me with "God bless you" is not worth to make a big fuss. But OTOH, theists trying to put Creationism/ID into the science curriculum is.
Quote from: "SGOS"What would a compromise between rational thinking and irrational thinking be?
The answer is to be found in Hunter S. Thompson's body of work.
If *compromise* means lack of argument - then I say yes...... I do tend to compromise more often than not. I think there are situations (ie good times and bad times) to put your non-beliefs out for display. And there are just times when it's just socially more amiable for everyone to keep non-belief tucked away. Since I don't care for evangelists I try hard not to be one. For selling is selling no matter how you slice it - or when.
Basically, I won't kick someone's ass for saying "God bless you" if I sneeze. Just not worth causing a ruckus when they intend to be nice to me. But for the gal yesterday who checked me out at Walmart who wanted to know the details of my purchase; followed with "God loves it when you show kindness to others, sister." (I explained I was shopping for an elderly woman who was a shut-in)........... her? Her- I put in her place.
"I'm not here to find Jesus Or God. I'm just at Walmart buying pajamas for a little old lady. Keep your religion in your pocket or I'll report you for harassment............ sister!" She was an over-the-top, foaming-at-the-mouth, shocking pain in my ass===That's what She was!
No compromise there. Zip. Nada. Are you kidding me? I was just trying to get some shopping done. Not be assaulted with God at the check-out for petesake.
eeesh
just my two cents worth.
Arguing about it does nothing. I'm not going to change anyone else's views and their sure as hell not going to change mine. Needless talking if you ask me.
Quote from: "the_antithesis"I don't debate. There is no debate.
This. I don't debate theists because there is no point.
Quote from: "Johan"Quote from: "the_antithesis"I don't debate. There is no debate.
This. I don't debate theists because there is no point.
We've tried debating a few theists who popped by here to set us all straight. They go away butthurt and angry - we use them for target practice and it's a sport, basically.
good times :popcorn:
Quote from: "Johan"Quote from: "the_antithesis"I don't debate. There is no debate.
This. I don't debate theists because there is no point.
Yeah, really. Its like trying to reason with flat earthers.
Quote from: "WitchSabrina"Quote from: "Johan"Quote from: "the_antithesis"I don't debate. There is no debate.
This. I don't debate theists because there is no point.
We've tried debating a few theists who popped by here to set us all straight. They go away butthurt and angry - we use them for target practice and it's a sport, basically.
good times :popcorn:
Well perhaps I should clarify. When I read the OP, I presumed the question posed was in relation to debating real live people face to face in person i.e. your family, friends, coworkers, neighbors etc. As a rule, I don't do that. I'm not going to convince them nor are they going to convince me so I let them be and hope they grant me the same respect. I don't talk about my atheist beliefs at all nor do I ask about anyone else's beliefs.
Anonymous people and/or trolls on an internet forum? That's different. Those I will engage and converse with for reasons of both morbid curiosity and mild entertainment. But the same expectation remains. I don't expect to convince them nor do I expect them to convince me.
Quote from: "Johan"
Well perhaps I should clarify. When I read the OP, I presumed the question posed was in relation to debating real live people face to face in person i.e. your family, friends, coworkers, neighbors etc. As a rule, I don't do that. I'm not going to convince them nor are they going to convince me so I let them be and hope they grant me the same respect. I don't talk about my atheist beliefs at all nor do I ask about anyone else's beliefs.
Anonymous people and/or trolls on an internet forum? That's different. Those I will engage and converse with for reasons of both morbid curiosity and mild entertainment. But the same expectation remains. I don't expect to convince them nor do I expect them to convince me.[/quote]
No No I think you're right. I think the OP referred to discussing/debating people in real life. I've mentioned both - talking/debating in real life And here when theists stop by. You're not wrong. :-D
And I completely agree with you on the respect issue.
The only time I really don't bother trying to respect someone's beliefs is when they shove theirs down my throat like I'm some moron then need to condescendingly save. Yanno what I mean? That simply put - pisses me off.
:rollin:
Is it cruel for me to tell theists they're going to have toothaches, BAD toothaches for eternity for believing in a god instead of the one true dental deity, The Tooth Fairy? It seems to tick them off to tell them they're worshiping false teeth.