Trump indicted by Manhattan court in hush money scheme (https://www.cnn.com/politics/live-news/trump-indictment-hush-money-stormy-daniels/index.html)
QuoteThe Manhattan district attorney's office has been investigating Trump in connection with his alleged role in a hush money payment scheme and cover-up involving adult film star Stormy Daniels during the 2016 presidential campaign.
Former President Donald Trump faces more than 30 counts related to business fraud in an indictment from a Manhattan grand jury, according to two sources familiar with the case. It marks the first time in US history that a current or former president will face criminal charges.
Trump is expected to appear in court Tuesday for his arraignment
We still don't know if he'll wind up in prison, but if he does, it'll be his first complete sentence in many years.
Nah, I bet he won't spend a single day in jail. 😡
I don't expect to see him in jail, either, much as that would warm the depths of my cold crocodilian heart. What I'm really hoping for is that once an indictment can be handed down for this peanut butter offense, someone will be emboldened enough to make a stringent case on the classified document mishandling, and land him in jail for that. I'll call it baby steps. The US isn't all that special. Other countries have incarcerated their ex-presidents for less. Maybe he could be executed via supersonic Big Macs shot into his maw? :D And every death threat so far should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law.
Quote from: Unbeliever on March 30, 2023, 10:15:55 PMNah, I bet he won't spend a single day in jail. 😡
You know the difference between Republicans and Democrats? Democrats have way too little faith in themselves and Republicans have way too much. Y'all can absolutely haul Trump off to jail if you work to make it happen and keep at it until it happens. Just pretend you're Trump in a women's dressing room. Don't take no for an answer.
Does Fox News get special dibs on the booking photos?
I have committed no crime
Said Donald time after time
Oh my what to do
When truth turns the screw
And justice finally reigns sublime
Quote from: Hydra009 on March 30, 2023, 11:10:29 PMYou know the difference between Republicans and Democrats? Democrats have way too little faith in themselves and Republicans have way too much. Y'all can absolutely haul Trump off to jail if you work to make it happen and keep at it until it happens. Just pretend you're Trump in a women's dressing room. Don't take no for an answer.
If it were up to me he'd've been in prison long ago. But alas, it's not up to me. 🤨
It's a long time coming, a good start far too late. I will allow myself to get a little hopeful to see him sentenced.
I thought the indictment was for paying hush money to a porn star. Have they now added the fraud charges to that? I brought up his business fraud on this forum 8 years ago. It was known back then. A reporter who covered it was on NPR, but it went nowhere.
No, I don't think he will go to jail. Not even sure he will pay a fine.
A closing paragraph in an New York Times editorial says:
QuoteThe decision to prosecute a former president is a solemn task, particularly given the deep national fissures that Mr. Trump will inevitably exacerbate as the 2024 campaign grows closer. But the cost of failing to seek justice against a leader who may have committed these crimes would be higher still.
I worry about violence in the streets by right wing thugs, but New York and Georgia need to proceed with their Grand Juries, not because I think Trump is a bad president, although I believe he is the worst in history, but because he wants to destroy what little democracy we have left. While I'm not enamored by the turn our democracy has taken in recent years, it's all we have left. It is not in the best interests of our country to allow some sore loser to dictate himself into the presidency, and to claim he is above the law. If he can do that, he can dictate anything he wants even without the support of his current supporters, and then we become a dictatorship.
Quote from: SGOS on March 31, 2023, 07:27:37 AMI thought the indictment was for paying hush money to a porn star. Have they now added the fraud charges to that? I brought up his business fraud on this forum 8 years ago. It was known back then. A reporter who covered it was on NPR, but it went nowhere.
No, I don't think he will go to jail. Not even sure he will pay a fine.
AS long as he's barred from running for a federal office.
Now that drump will apparently be indicted is it time to think of firing Garland? He has done nothing to help this country defend itself from nazi politicians (most notably drump) or punish them for breaking hundreds of laws. He has done not a thing for almost 3 years.
This is the official mission statement for the DOJ:
"The mission of the Attorney General and the U.S. Attorneys is: "To enforce the law and defend the interests of the United States according to the law; to ensure public safety against threats foreign and domestic; to provide federal leadership in preventing and controlling crime; to seek just punishment for those guilty of unlawful behavior; and to ensure fair and impartial administration of justice for all Americans."
Why has he been allowed to do nothing--he ignored the entire mission statement. His most 'heroic' move on TV was to take on Jackson, Miss polluted drinking water--wow, what a hero!! And now he is tackling another huge issue--train wrecks! This country is quickly becoming a train wreck--and yet not a peep from this fearless warrior!! Is he in the pay of the drump mob? Has he been threatened with bodily harm from the same mob?? By doing nothing, Garland is allowing/helping drump to start a much more forceful revolt!!
Quote from: Mike Cl on March 31, 2023, 05:05:16 PMNow that drump will apparently be indicted is it time to think of firing Garland?
I do wonder why he hasn't done anything. It seems like election tampering would be at the front of his job description. Some of the other stuff might best be left in state hands.
A woman in another forum said Trump was a man of integrity, and she wished that haters would stop attacking him. The thread was shut down by the moderators within an hour.
Nvm, seems like the charges were dropped and the Feds are going after some guy named Hunter instead.
That is one thing Russia gets right - obnoxious rich men mysteriously falling out of windows.
I'm not saying we could learn a thing or two, but... maybe give it a one-time test run, just to see if we like?
(I don't expect to see him in jail either, but to be fair he did screw the US government out of taxes and they even got Willy for that, and he's bloody Willy.)
There are no provisions in the Constitution regarding a presidential candidate's criminal history, meaning an individual who has been charged or convicted of a crime is not barred from holding the highest office in the nation.
His party would never nominate a convicted criminal. April Fools !
Ten counts of obstruction of justice from the Mueller report allowed to languish on Garland's desk while the man is on tape telling the GA Secretary of State to 'find me 11,780 votes'. It finally took 23 brave NY grand jurors to vote to indict this man. Crazy, but overdue.
(https://i.imgur.com/H62H9ebl.jpeg)
(https://i.redd.it/cl7zff2rioqa1.jpg)
Meanwhile, MTG got heckled out of her I dunno, pro-crime rally. I can't imagine why. Oh, says here she compared NYC to Gotham (I guess the analogy works, they both have a crime boss clown) apparently unaware that Gotham is blatantly modeled on NYC.
I thought Gotham was based on Chicago. 🤔
Quote from: Unbeliever on April 04, 2023, 09:54:33 PMI thought Gotham was based on Chicago. 🤔
That's just a possible filming location. Any suitably dense urban environment will do.
But the artistic inspiration is undoubtedly NYC. The writer literally flipped through the NYC phone book and found "Gotham Jewelers" (Gotham is an old nickname for NYC)
Quote from: Hydra009 on April 04, 2023, 09:38:16 PM(https://i.imgur.com/H62H9ebl.jpeg)
(https://i.redd.it/cl7zff2rioqa1.jpg)
Meanwhile, MTG got heckled out of her I dunno, pro-crime rally. I can't imagine why. Oh, says here she compared NYC to Gotham (I guess the analogy works, they both have a crime boss clown) apparently unaware that Gotham is blatantly modeled on NYC.
"Empty Gee" should just go back to her hovel in Georgia. You know, the one with the outside toilet and no running water.
(https://i.redd.it/tm98cdmx32sa1.jpg)
I also don't try to threaten judges, cause that's a felony!
Trump Indicted Again (https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/donald-trump/live-blog/live-updates-trump-classified-documents-florida-grand-jury-rcna88233)
(https://cdn-sfo.socy.cloud/PRAS/v1/_20/p/202303/upload/PRAS/uf_1679501776yIpmDdGvxFMLRMrUF0Gp7mPyTo.jpg)
First, the 9/11 nutcase guy (famous for being famous) kicks the bucket, now the long arm of the law finally catches up to Mafia Don. Today's been a pretty good day.
To paraphrase Worf, today is a good day to dine! 🖖
Comedy comes in threes: Trump indicted again...again (https://apnews.com/article/trump-indicted-jan-6-investigation-special-counsel-debb59bb7a4d9f93f7e2dace01feccdc).
This time for "efforts to overturn 2020 election and block transfer of power" which is a VERY euphemistic way of saying that he tried to nullify your vote and mine, seize power, and install himself as some sort of dictator, ending American democracy. Anyone with a shred of loyalty to either the Constitution specifically or the rule of law and democracy in general should be fucking livid about this.
I really didn't expect to have to update this thread all that much when I made it. :( On the plus side, Trump's PAC is nearly broke (https://www.nytimes.com/2023/07/31/us/politics/trump-pac-filing.html) so congrats to all the dum-dums who poured their money into that bonfire. Go ahead and buy NFTs, I dare ya.
It still looks like Biden and Trump are neck and neck in the polls. It's hard to understand why Americans would even consider him as a viable president.
The indictment just doesn't start out well at all for Donald does it:
"The defendant lost the 2020 election. Despite having lost, the defendant was determined to remain in power. So for more than two months following election day on November 3, 2020, the defendant spread lies that there had been outcome-determinative fraud in the election and that he had actually won. These claims were false, and the Defendant knew they were false."
Then we get to the fun parts:
1) Conspiracy to Defraud the United States by fraud and obstruction...
2) Conspiracy to corruptly obstruct the Jan 6 hearings...
3) Conspiracy to obstruct the right to vote and to have your vote counted...
Donnie is in a bit of trouble. The best part of the whole 'witch hunt'? All those republican witnesses.
Quote from: SGOS on August 01, 2023, 08:35:30 PMIt still looks like Biden and Trump are neck and neck in the polls. It's hard to understand why Americans would even consider him as a viable president.
Because there are that many assholes in the US? Many may be deceived assholes, but assholes nonetheless,
who are armed.
Quote from: SGOS on August 01, 2023, 08:35:30 PMIt still looks like Biden and Trump are neck and neck in the polls.
Among other indictments, an indictment of the American educational system.
(https://i.imgur.com/G9hQZANl.jpeg)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-t7GNMlDb_I
Why is everybody always pickin' on me. My apologies to The Coasters.
Quote from: Hydra009 on August 01, 2023, 10:43:43 PMAmong other indictments, an indictment of the American educational system.
Pulling an "Animal House", LOL.
All these charges against trump are great! Except there is a good (or better) chance it will all come to naught. Why? Because the charges have taken over 2 years to be made and slam right into the 2024 election. The Orange Monster is a masterful expert in the art of delay, delay, delay. I can easily seeing all the trials being delayed through the primaries and into and past the start of any trial. Then the fact he is the new GOP candidate I can easily see the trials shut down until after the election. In fact there is a good chance that even if all goes well in those trials and he is found guilty, that the final 'guilty' verdict will be 4 yrs in the future because of appeals. And a person can be president even if in prison. If he does win, that will be the end of our country for he will become a dictator until he dies.
Irony of Ironies is that the 'Worlds Greatest Generation' has allowed and mostly funded trump's rise to power. We fought Germany in WWII and we are now on the verge of becoming 1939 Germany or worse. (Apparently the retired are still trump's biggest supporters.)
Is it possible Garland is complicit in allowing trump to have gone so long without being charged with ANY crime? He's had over two years to do so--and don't tell me he was not aware of the import of the 2024 elections!!!
QuoteBecause the charges have taken over 2 years to be made and slam right into the 2024 election.
Have they?
Legal cases take time - legal cases against mob bosses take even longer.
Now put a mob "boss" (fall guy who thinks he's in control) in control of the world's most powerful political institution and the necessity of thorough evidence to justify your case.
You don't make charges until you can prove them; otherwise you have only guaranteed the defendant walks away with no punishment.
If anything, it probably is slightly rushed - I would argue Trump and his legal team have probably cut a few years off of the case with their multiple admissions of guilty thoughts and actions.
I think it could really go 50/50 on who is at fault for it happening right now - but I trust Jack Smith to do his job. Strikes me as a man who takes it very seriously.
Edit - On a personal level I do agree though; it feels like they should have nailed him for at least some smaller crimes by now.
Quote from: Shiranu on August 02, 2023, 08:31:06 PMHave they?
Legal cases take time - legal cases against mob bosses take even longer.
Now put a mob "boss" (fall guy who thinks he's in control) in control of the world's most powerful political institution and the necessity of thorough evidence to justify your case.
You don't make charges until you can prove them; otherwise you have only guaranteed the defendant walks away with no punishment.
If anything, it probably is slightly rushed - I would argue Trump and his legal team have probably cut a few years off of the case with their multiple admissions of guilty thoughts and actions.
I think it could really go 50/50 on who is at fault for it happening right now - but I trust Jack Smith to do his job. Strikes me as a man who takes it very seriously.
Clearly Jack Smith knows what he is doing and how to do it. He could not have moved on his own. Garland could have moved as soon as he wanted to, so why did he wait for 2 years to start the process? Why didn't Biden get the process moving faster? He has had 50yrs of experience, surely he knew the dangers of letting trump regain power and he knew another election was not that far down the road.
The process has been on-going for years; the indictments indicate this - it goes back to at least the Jan. 6th committee, as these are the charges (+ an additional charge) that they directly adopted from the committee's recommendation to the DoJ.
The hearings weren't just for political show, and the Republicans apparently did a really good job of convincing people that it was just theater; I had fallen for it as well.
If there is one thing the Soviets were good at, it was making people question their own reality - Some kompromats seem to have had good teachers.
Quote from: Shiranu on August 02, 2023, 10:28:50 PMThe process has been on-going for years; the indictments indicate this - it goes back to at least the Jan. 6th committee, as these are the charges (+ an additional charge) that they directly adopted from the committee's recommendation to the DoJ.
The hearings weren't just for political show, and the Republicans apparently did a really good job of convincing people that it was just theater; I had fallen for it as well.
If there is one thing the Soviets were good at, it was making people question their own reality - Some kompromats seem to have had good teachers.
I see the Jan. 6th committee as essential (and a great format). It presented the current history of the coup attempt and it got enough attention to act like a slap across the face of the DOJ--it woke up and then appointed Smith. Otherwise we would still be wondering what the fuck the DOJ was doing (or not doing).
Quote from: Mike Cl on August 03, 2023, 10:09:54 AMI see the Jan. 6th committee as essential (and a great format). It presented the current history of the coup attempt and it got enough attention to act like a slap across the face of the DOJ--it woke up and then appointed Smith. Otherwise we would still be wondering what the fuck the DOJ was doing (or not doing).
We have a history of going easy on white collar criminals, conspirators against the Union and traitors. Bob E Lee and Jeff Davis never even went to trial. Nixon got the pardon. Who know what Trump will get if found guilty on all charges. Probably limited to two rounds of 18 holes a week.
Quote from: Cassia on August 03, 2023, 10:37:29 AMWe have a history of going easy on white collar criminals, conspirators against the Union and traitors. Bob E Lee and Jeff Davis never even went to trial. Nixon got the pardon. Who know what Trump will get if found guilty on all charges. Probably limited to two rounds of 18 holes a week.
True--and therein lies the problem. If trump does not get prison he wins. He will be re-elected and that will be the end of this country as we thought we knew it. He will become a dictator and that will be that.
This criminal blowhard won in 2016, and I did not think it possible. His base will vote for him of course, but now that the cat's out of the bag, I can't imagine this man ever getting near the presidency again. I so hope I'm right, because "I am your retribution" isn't exactly a uniting platform.
The chump "won" the election because of the Electoral College. He actually lost by millions of votes. People (including me) bitched about the allegations about Hilary mishandling classified information. What was ever found? And Comey got played with that, days before the election. I still voted for Hilary (holding my nose). Look what we got! Orders of magnitude worse.
The thing I find most offensive is that this man is still walking free... free to spew more lies in light of the attempted overthrow of our democracy.
Quote from: Mike Cl on August 03, 2023, 03:40:50 PMTrue--and therein lies the problem. If trump does not get prison he wins. He will be re-elected and that will be the end of this country as we thought we knew it. He will become a dictator and that will be that.
He already stacked the courts. That's a heavy blow to democracy right there. Bad enough that we have openly corrupt Clarence Thomas on there, now we have two other clowns. Who knows what sort of damage they'll do, but it'll long outlive Trump.
"IF YOU GO AFTER ME, I'M COMING AFTER YOU!"
Nice truth social post. So much for the judge's warning. Lock this man up.
Quote from: ferdmonger on August 04, 2023, 11:10:00 PM"IF YOU GO AFTER ME, I'M COMING AFTER YOU!"
Nice truth social post. So much for the judge's warning. Lock this man up.
Seriously, it's bad enough that he tried to summon the supreme court to bail him out like they're his personal army (word of the day: jurisdiction), now he's issuing threats via social media obviously pointed at the judge and jury and witnesses, even after the judge made a point to remind the defendant against witness tampering. Lock his ass away!
I think we should shoot him and put him out of our misery.
Quote from: Hydra009 on August 04, 2023, 11:30:11 PMSeriously, it's bad enough that he tried to summon the supreme court to bail him out like they're his personal army (word of the day: jurisdiction), now he's issuing threats via social media obviously pointed at the judge and jury and witnesses, even after the judge made a point to remind the defendant against witness tampering. Lock his ass away!
Quote from: ferdmonger on August 04, 2023, 11:10:00 PM"IF YOU GO AFTER ME, I'M COMING AFTER YOU!"
Nice truth social post. So much for the judge's warning. Lock this man up.
Now the prosecutor seeks a protective order from an ex-pres. The man is a menace.
Not only is he a menace, he's a popular menace among folks who have thought process issues.
Fourth indictment (https://www.cnn.com/2023/08/14/politics/donald-trump-fulton-county-georgia/index.html)
QuoteTrump and others "joined a conspiracy to unlawfully change the outcome" of the election, according to the indictment, which said they "unlawfully conspired and endeavored to conduct and participate in a criminal enterprise" after Trump lost the election in Georgia.
Trump tried to silence your vote, end American democracy, and seize power for himself like a tinpot dictator. He should rot in prison.
(https://i.imgur.com/p7uKmnp.png)
However long his sentence may be, I hope they give him four more years for impersonating the President of the United States.
These charges are serious, and his attempts too overturn the democratic process are not opinion or hearsay. They are in recorded phone calls, social media, and testimony from his inner circle. Everyone has access to them, and most people have personally heard the big call to Georgia.
I still don't think he will go to jail, and I give him a 50-50 chance of winning the next election.
Quote from: ferdmonger on August 06, 2023, 10:04:56 PMNot only is he a menace, he's a popular menace among folks who have thought process issues.
My hillbilly cousins are happily wearing t-shirts that say "Jan. 6th! I was there!" I ask them if they've ever attacked any other of our constitutional institutions. They look confused.
(https://i.imgur.com/jRxfgfo.jpeg)
Fair enough. I suppose they should swing by Gaetz's place, too.
Also, LOL at that bottom crawl. Yeah, they're busting Mafia Don on 41 counts of asking people to watch TV. What a gullible audience!
Quote from: Hydra009 on August 16, 2023, 02:12:00 PM(https://i.imgur.com/jRxfgfo.jpeg)
Fair enough. I suppose they should swing by Gaetz's place, too.
Also, LOL at that bottom crawl. Yeah, they're busting Mafia Don on 41 counts of asking people to watch TV. What a gullible audience!
The real irony is that the orange monster IS a rapist!
(https://i.imgur.com/GEpwbH6l.jpeg)
I take it this is a pretty unambiguous situation. At least to normal people.
As for no longer divided, I am not so sure about that. Most of these people have a very (how shall we say) "unique" way of thinking that precludes the possibility of being wrong in either their beliefs or in their object of cult-like reverence. That's not a sort of thing that gets broken from contrary evidence.
Quote from: Hydra009 on August 04, 2023, 10:34:31 PMHe already stacked the courts. That's a heavy blow to democracy right there. Bad enough that we have openly corrupt Clarence Thomas on there, now we have two other clowns. Who knows what sort of damage they'll do, but it'll long outlive Trump.
I just hope that I long outlive The Donald. 🤠
Quote from: Unbeliever on August 18, 2023, 01:07:16 AMI just hope that I long outlive The Donald. 🤠
Donald thrives on stress. Ordinarily, stress is considered bad for our health. I'm not sure that applies to someone that craves it as an elixir.
Quote from: SGOS on August 18, 2023, 07:05:19 AMDonald thrives on stress. Ordinarily, stress is considered bad for our health. I'm not sure that applies to someone that craves it as an elixir.
Not sure I agree with that. He doesn't feel stress. He transfers it to his subordinates. He doesn't thrive on it. He causes it and I think I know why.
He's an asshole.
Quote from: the_antithesis on August 18, 2023, 11:16:29 AMNot sure I agree with that. He doesn't feel stress. He transfers it to his subordinates. He doesn't thrive on it. He causes it.
Would it be more correct to say he thrives on conflict? No doubt there is a bit of projection on my part. If I were in his situation right now, I would feel stress. Of course, I would have understood that I caused it by my own actions. He may not, although I'm not sure about that.
Not sure trump feels his dealing with the courts as stressful for I don't think he feels things the way any other person does. He loves chaos for he doesn't find stress to be a bad thing for him. He can control others through chaos, especially in court. Chaos has served him well in the past and he has no reason to think it will not do so now or in the future. He has made a mockery of the court system and the court system has not responded well to it. Even with this new 'tough' judge in DC uttered a 'reprimand and warning to him', that very night he defied her 'orders' and even after her life was threatened, she has done nothing. Why would trump be stressed or afraid of any court??
https://static01.nyt.com/images/2023/08/25/multimedia/24trump-georgia-mugshot/25themorning-mug-fjqg-jumbo.jpg?quality=75&auto=webp
Trump's mug shot, not the typical grainy black and white, but something that looks like a professional photographer at Macey's Department Store took the photo and gave Trump a set of 25 proofs so he could pick the one where he looked the most defiant. I was hoping for the usual front and side view with the crook holding his number in front of him, rather than a full color portrait suitable for framing or turning into a Christmas card.
Quote from: SGOS on August 25, 2023, 04:55:26 AMhttps://static01.nyt.com/images/2023/08/25/multimedia/24trump-georgia-mugshot/25themorning-mug-fjqg-jumbo.jpg?quality=75&auto=webp
Trump's mug shot, not the typical grainy black and white, but something that looks like a professional photographer at Macey's Department Store took the photo and gave Trump a set of 25 proofs so he could pick the one where he looked the most defiant. I was hoping for the usual front and side view with the crook holding his number in front of him, rather than a full color portrait suitable for framing or turning into a Christmas card.
Actually it has been turned into a T-shirt which can be bought on the net-----already.
Quote from: Mike Cl on August 25, 2023, 09:06:47 AMActually it has been turned into a T-shirt which can be bought on the net-----already.
Yay, Capitalism!
He has the belief that his "army" will come to full force and throw chaos so much that the government will actually let him out to protect the lives of other Americans. I see and feel his "army" is getting smaller, more vocal but a little more timid as they don't have such a backing as they think they do. That won't stop some. But if bullets start flying and kids start getting killed in the crossfire, I don't think the majority of his supporters will be so eager to be on the return side while standing next to their kids or grands.