Liberals Killed Roseanne. Conservatives Crushed the NFL Protests. Everybody Happy Now? (https://reason.com/blog/2018/05/29/roseanne-barr-valerie-jarrett-cancelled)
QuoteThe only thing that's different this time is this: social media turns up the volume on offensive statements, and provides a perfect platform to pillory the perpetrator into submission. The network executives at ABC had to watch the Twitter villagers reaching for their pitchforks in real time, and feel the pressure to respond.
...
But conservatives are already coming for people's livelihoods. Not even a week has passed since the NFL caved to pressure from conservative viewersâ€"as well as the president himselfâ€"and banned players from kneeling during the national anthem as a protest against police violence.
The right and left are determined to one-up each other on the outrage front.
Quote from: Jason Harvestdancer on May 29, 2018, 08:41:24 PM
Liberals Killed Roseanne. Conservatives Crushed the NFL Protests. Everybody Happy Now? (https://reason.com/blog/2018/05/29/roseanne-barr-valerie-jarrett-cancelled)
The right and left are determined to one-up each other on the outrage front.
The US needs to die already? The wrong sides won in 1783 and 1865? Do they have 4g wifi in the FEMA camps?
I always liked Roseanne, particularly how she sang the National Anthem ;-))
I can't find a clip sadly, but I'll always remember a line from the show that stuck with me all this time.
Break, damn you, break.
Listen to me, David.
Rabbits and geese and goats are not people.
They don't sing and dance.
They're FOOD!
If Trump Tweeted what Roseanne did he would still have his job. It's good to be king.
Quote from: GSOgymrat on May 29, 2018, 09:11:21 PM
If Trump Tweeted what Roseanne did he would still have his job. It's good to be king.
No but it was perfectly OK to show a version of Trump's decapitated head, right?
Quote from: Baruch on May 29, 2018, 09:16:18 PM
No but it was perfectly OK to show a version of Trump's decapitated head, right?
Yes, it was. I'm not in favor of people getting fired for saying offensive things. I'm even less in favor of some people being able to say things with impunity while others are punished for lesser offenses. Life isn't fair though.
Quote from: Baruch on May 29, 2018, 09:16:18 PM
No but it was perfectly OK to show a version of Trump's decapitated head, right?
Just the latest in an ever escalating rhetoric of the parties. Do you choose to not remember the images of Obama being hanged or was that one okay?
Yes, people only remember the outrageous things the other side did. They also excuse or forget the outrageous things of their own side.
Quote from: GSOgymrat on May 29, 2018, 09:19:48 PM
Yes, it was. I'm not in favor of people getting fired for saying offensive things. I'm even less in favor of some people being able to say things with impunity while others are punished for lesser offenses. Life isn't fair though.
Don't ask for someone to be punished, unless you want to take your licks too. What goes around, comes around. That is exactly the late Roman Republic escalation to mob violence that seems to be happening, which is the OP. Reading a bio of Marcus Tullius Cicero ... and that seems appropriate to the age of political debauchery we have fallen into. A return to the 60s.
Quote from: aitm on May 29, 2018, 10:05:48 PM
Just the latest in an ever escalating rhetoric of the parties. Do you choose to not remember the images of Obama being hanged or was that one okay?
You assume I am a closet Republican. I voted Democrat for years. No, people should have been arrested for that because free speech doesn't mean you can yell "fire" in a theater. Such things get you visits from the Secret Service. I would be happy if the DNC and RNC were both jailed for incitement to riot. Are you non-partisan?
Quote from: Jason Harvestdancer on May 29, 2018, 08:41:24 PM
The right and left are determined to one-up each other on the outrage front.
William Bennett from the Regan Administration was so out outraged by the fact that people weren't outraged that he wrote a book called the Death of Outrage as an attack on Bill Clinton, even when half of America was already outraged. But apparently not enough for Bennett. But everything is apparently now back on track. Everyone is outraged again, and things are back to normal.
At first I was torn on supporting this (because of the kneeling), but no... they really aren't remotely comparable and this is completely right.
One is some racist ass shit from someone with a history of saying racist ass shit. The other is protesting brutality against racial minorities.
Yes, they are both "free speech", but that doesn't mean they are equal speech.
Quote from: SGOS on May 30, 2018, 05:21:13 AM
William Bennett from the Regan Administration was so out outraged by the fact that people weren't outraged that he wrote a book called the Death of Outrage as an attack on Bill Clinton, even when half of America was already outraged. But apparently not enough for Bennett. But everything is apparently now back on track. Everyone is outraged again, and things are back to normal.
Bennet was part of the "1960s were totally wrong" crowd. I have to say I am sympathetic to that, but not just to Left insanity, but the Right insanity that enflamed the fire.
Quote from: Shiranu on May 30, 2018, 05:31:16 AM
At first I was torn on supporting this (because of the kneeling), but no... they really aren't remotely comparable and this is completely right.
One is some racist ass shit from someone with a history of saying racist ass shit. The other is protesting brutality against racial minorities.
Yes, they are both "free speech", but that doesn't mean they are equal speech.
The NFL and ABC are both private entities and if you work for them they have the right disassociate with you if you say shit they don't like. In that it's the same.
How states fail ...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jsZDlBU36n0
Blame it all on the CIA or KGB?
Quote from: aitm on May 29, 2018, 10:05:48 PM
Just the latest in an ever escalating rhetoric of the parties.
Let's just hope it stays with rhetoric, and doesn't escalate beyond all rational discourse. Some supporters of Spanky have already said they'd resort to guns if he's impeached. I think the coming chaos is just what Chump and his Russian master intended, leading to the complete dissolution of the U.S.A.
But I hope that's just my pessimism poking through.
Quote from: Unbeliever on May 30, 2018, 01:28:35 PM
Let's just hope it stays with rhetoric, and doesn't escalate beyond all rational discourse. Some supporters of Spanky have already said they'd resort to guns if he's impeached. I think the coming chaos is just what Chump and his Russian master intended, leading to the complete dissolution of the U.S.A.
But I hope that's just my pessimism poking through.
>muh russian narrative
>muh killing people who are trying to destroy your democracy is bad
(https://pixel.nymag.com/imgs/daily/selectall/2017/02/13/wojak_02.nocrop.w710.h2147483647.jpg)
Quote from: Gilgamesh on May 30, 2018, 12:23:19 PM
The NFL and ABC are both private entities and if you work for them they have the right disassociate with you if you say shit they don't like. In that it's the same.
True. But one side is "right", the other is "wrong", even if the law doesn't make a distinction between the two.
I don't think the government needs to (or should) step in in either situation, however the problem with the NFL situation is the government very explicitly did so... in favour of the owners, both through support for their actions and through the NFL being heavily sponsored by the military.
So when people are saying, "Wow! Liberal hypocrites! You are against the NFL limiting free speech but are okay when ABC does it to people you disagree with!", I find that really stretching, which annoys me because at first I was actually prone to agree with that idea. But once you actually give it some thought, it's a load of shit. It's implying that a private company cutting someone for racist statements is essentially the same as a company heavily sponsored by the government and encouraged by the government to silence protest against what is perceived as the government (when it truth it is protest against a cultural tolerance of violence against minorities).
Quote>muh killing people who are trying to destroy your democracy is bad
>implying impeachment isn't democratic
(https://derpicdn.net/img/view/2018/2/7/1650304__safe_artist-colon-anonymous_4chan_brainlet_-fwslash-mlp-fwslash-_monochrome_ponified_pony_wojak.png)
Not the same ... Gilgamesh is saying ... Ds are assassins (As in Assassin's Creed?). That is too strong, much more than impeachment.
What we are seeing is a delegitimization of elections. The winning side and the losing side, don't accept the result of the election. The losing side thinks they were robbed (and they are). The winning side thinks they have a mandate (they don't). It is well known that Chicago crooks stole the 1960 election for JFK. Should be de-list the Ds as a legal party? More recently the Rs stole the 2000 election (more so than 2016) ... because of SCOTUS. With 2016 do we count all the illegal aliens who voted D party? With trillions of dollars in grifting at stake, people would be upset at not getting their share of the fake money grift.
Quote from: Jason Harvestdancer on May 29, 2018, 08:41:24 PM
Liberals Killed Roseanne. Conservatives Crushed the NFL Protests. Everybody Happy Now? (https://reason.com/blog/2018/05/29/roseanne-barr-valerie-jarrett-cancelled)
The right and left are determined to one-up each other on the outrage front.
Oh c'mon, Roseanne ruined her career herself, thinking most everyone was a racist like her. Racists always think they are in the majority.
Quote from: GSOgymrat on May 29, 2018, 09:11:21 PM
If Trump Tweeted what Roseanne did he would still have his job. It's good to be king.
Yeah, it is really hard to get impeached. And no idiot President as been convicted. May Trump be the first. But he won't.
Quote from: Jason Harvestdancer on May 29, 2018, 10:14:54 PM
Yes, people only remember the outrageous things the other side did. They also excuse or forget the outrageous things of their own side.
I do. And I am willing to flay my own side when I see the hypocrisy (and have).
Quote from: Shiranu on May 30, 2018, 09:26:16 PM
True. But one side is "right", the other is "wrong", even if the law doesn't make a distinction between the two.
I don't think the government needs to (or should) step in in either situation, however the problem with the NFL situation is the government very explicitly did so... in favour of the owners, both through support for their actions and through the NFL being heavily sponsored by the military.
So when people are saying, "Wow! Liberal hypocrites! You are against the NFL limiting free speech but are okay when ABC does it to people you disagree with!", I find that really stretching, which annoys me because at first I was actually prone to agree with that idea. But once you actually give it some thought, it's a load of shit. It's implying that a private company cutting someone for racist statements is essentially the same as a company heavily sponsored by the government and encouraged by the government to silence protest against what is perceived as the government (when it truth it is protest against a cultural tolerance of violence against minorities).
I agree that what is lost in many arguments is that one side is often wrong and the other side right, and the other side doesn't actually care. The facts don't matter to them, just the political effects...