This is the level of propaganda we are combating:
http://www.rightwingwatch.org/post/alex-jones-hillary-clinton-has-personally-murdered-and-chopped-up-and-raped-children/
Anyone who believes that nutcase is a hopelessly gullible fool.
Quote from: Atheon on December 18, 2016, 08:33:13 AM
Anyone who believes that nutcase is a hopelessly gullible fool.
The problem is, there is no shortage of hopelessly gullible fools, or demagogues to take advantage of them.
What do you mean by "we" Paleface? Me Tonto, but you get arrow shirt ;-)
I would ban all D-party publication and speech ... as hate speech, fake news and incitement to felonious behavior. That is what we would do if we are good Germans like Angela Merkel. A woman, whose daughter was raped and murdered by a refugee, put his convicted face, taken from public sources, on her Facebook page. That was deemed "hate speech" and Facebook banned her. See ... anything you dislike, can be labeled "shouting fire in a theater".
Now I don't watch Alex Jones, don't defend him, anymore than I am an R-party, and I don't defend Donald Trump (which is what this is all about). I am simply an opponent of rapists (Bill Clinton) and Stalinism (Hillary campaign). But call that fake news if you want.
Quote from: Atheon on December 18, 2016, 08:33:13 AM
Anyone who believes that nutcase is a hopelessly gullible fool.
...who believes that they're the height of skepticism (unlike us sheeple) because they reject the mainstream media.
Quote from: Baruch on December 18, 2016, 09:14:43 AM
What do you mean by "we" Paleface? Me Tonto, but you get arrow shirt ;-)
By "we," I mean we who are opposed to lies. Notice I said, "level," by the way. There is subtle bias, and there is gross propaganda. Alex Jones is the grossest of the gross.
Quote from: Baruch on December 18, 2016, 09:14:43 AM
...I don't defend Donald Trump (which is what this is all about).
I would say it's about the republican propaganda machine, that owns most of the rural radio-stations, and poisons the minds of the majority of uneducated hicks, even in my neck of the woods.
Quote from: Solomon Zorn on December 18, 2016, 08:23:59 AM
This is the level of propaganda we are combating:
http://www.rightwingwatch.org/post/alex-jones-hillary-clinton-has-personally-murdered-and-chopped-up-and-raped-children/
Define 'propaganda' for me.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fgcd1ghag5Y
Who is 'we'?
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-europe-migrants-slave-special-report-idUSKCN10T137
Until a few weeks ago, I had watched/listened to Alex Jones less than 20 times over the past 10 years, mostly his interviews with Paulides, as I frequent Nat Parks/Forests and the topic interests me. But Jones makes me laugh. His rants are very entertaining. I am sure, by spring, I will lose interest in him once again.
But he gets to post his opinions on his channel. I really don't agree with censorship.
I think, in the long run, this will fail for both youtube and facebook (their flagging). They are publicly traded companies now and are beholden to their shareholders, many of whom will experience this censorship and be offended.
EDIT: Adding this link:
http://www.dailywire.com/news/10931/obama-left-blame-fake-news-democratic-losses-here-frank-camp
Quote from: Baruch on December 18, 2016, 09:14:43 AM
That is what we would do if we are good Germans like Angela Merkel. A woman, whose daughter was raped and murdered by a refugee, put his convicted face, taken from public sources, on her Facebook page. That was deemed "hate speech" and Facebook banned her. See ... anything you dislike, can be labeled "shouting fire in a theater".
Truth as hate speech...
Quote from: Baruch on December 18, 2016, 09:14:43 AM
... and I don't defend Donald Trump (which is what this is all about). I am simply an opponent of rapists (Bill Clinton) and Stalinism (Hillary campaign). But call that fake news if you want.
All about Trump is correct. Cannot face the fact that people just didn't like her.
Work holiday party yesterday, us girls were sitting together. Out of the four of us (small company) I was the only one who voted. One may have never voted before (only 25) but the other two are older and they didn't vote. Both said "I couldn't vote for her, and I couldn't vote for Trump so I stayed home".
Interview the former Obama voters who went Trump or did not vote:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qU_y4z0dmaQ&feature=youtu.be
This 'fake news' bs is a direct attack on Free Speech. Liberals should fear this more than anything as it is the new ideas which will be suppressed. Long run it is the outside-of-the-box that will suffer.
Quote from: Solomon Zorn on December 18, 2016, 10:12:31 AM
By "we," I mean we who are opposed to lies. Notice I said, "level," by the way. There is subtle bias, and there is gross propaganda. Alex Jones is the grossest of the gross.
I agree that he is gross, but I support his right to be gross.
D-party = Truth, R-party = False, I-party = FU both Skeptic of conservatives or R-party just means you are a liberal and D-party tool.
Slippery slope ... ban Alex Jones .. but ban the other 1 million a-holes on the Internet ... which for most people, would include atheists. This is atheists shooting selves in foot.
Maybe some folks hare are already on the take ... agents of DailyKos.
Quote from: Solomon Zorn on December 18, 2016, 10:21:52 AM
I would say it's about the republican propaganda machine, that owns most of the rural radio-stations, and poisons the minds of the majority of uneducated hicks, even in my neck of the woods.
Typical urban D-party ubermensch. Sorry, I don't live in a shack with no plumbing ... but if you want to try to put the red-necks in the railroad cars ... go ahead.
D-party could have chosen a likable person, and someone with a populist platform (not burn all gays etc at the stake ... that isn't populist!). But the D-party has been a POS since Bill Clinton started triangulating in his first term. Why do I hate Bill Clinton? NAFTA ... not because he is a rapist. I like rapists, but I don't like NAFTA.
I like free trade. I like borders between countries being eliminated. I like NAFTA and the EU, and would like to see the entire planet become a United Confederation of Earth, with free movement between countries, one currency, and a strong constitutional democracy, but with each member state being allowed to keep its unique cultures and languages.
"Imagine there's no countries. It isn't hard to do. Nothing to kill or die for. And no religion, too." - John Lennon
Quote from: Atheon on December 19, 2016, 12:28:01 AM
I like free trade. I like borders between countries being eliminated. I like NAFTA and the EU, and would like to see the entire planet become a United Confederation of Earth, with free movement between countries, one currency, and a strong constitutional democracy, but with each member state being allowed to keep its unique cultures and languages.
"Imagine there's no countries. It isn't hard to do. Nothing to kill or die for. And no religion, too." - John Lennon
Me too. Then come the brownshirt nationalists raving about some totalitarian new world order and vowing to stop our Illuminati agenda by ballot or bullet. So nothing happens. Thanks guys.
Defend Jones? That's never going to happen from me under any circumstances. I enjoy free speech too, but I cannot defend it to the point where it completely undermines what most of the people believe to be a democracy. When so called free speech insights people to commit heinous acts it's no longer free, it's propaganda and we now have a system hiding behind free speech to sell every one of us out, but we'll keep playing along until this so called free speech is revoked and it'll only be an arcane idea we once thought we had.
If you like John Lennon, or like the UN, or want there to be no national governments ... that is its own thread(s). Some people like Karl Marx or Pewee Hermann. Obviously the "cosmopolitans" who have been around for over 2000 years ... will like the EU (too bad it is falling apart). Usually the "one world" dream is attempted by megalomaniacs who build bloodthirsty empires (Asoka, Shi Huang Di, Cyrus, Alexander).
Quote from: Solomon Zorn on December 18, 2016, 10:12:31 AM
By "we," I mean we who are opposed to lies. Notice I said, "level," by the way. There is subtle bias, and there is gross propaganda. Alex Jones is the grossest of the gross.
The US is a rebelling British colony ... it isn't an independent nation at all ... so which "lies" are you referring to? The Republicans and Democrats aren't even bipartisan on 2+2=4 ... for one party it equals 3 (austerity), for the other party it equals 5 (profligacy). So did JFK win the 1960 election or not? Is it or is it not true, that the D-party stole it fair and square?
OK, so free speech is OK, as long as it is only among PhD Political Science professors not the hoi polloi. Also propaganda is OK, as long as it is D-party propaganda ... or do the D-party members have special Platonic organs, that allow them to own the truth?
Quote from: Hydra009 on December 19, 2016, 12:34:08 AM
Me too. Then comes the brownshirt nationalists raving about some totalitarian new world order and vowing to stop our Illuminati agenda by ballot or bullet. So nothing happens. Thanks guys.
So you are a Menshevik/Trotsky-ite then. Stalin and Hitler were too narrow in their ambitions. It was George HW who proclaimed the NWO, not Alex Jones. I like Trotsky ... he was Jewish and knew before anyone, what Hitler was all about. He understood Stalin all to well.
Quote from: Baruch on December 19, 2016, 07:07:01 AMSo you are a Menshevik/Trotsky-ite then.
You caught me. Clearly, one would have to be some sort of Marxist to advocate for a postnationalist political order. All that stuff about maintaining a strong constitutional democracy was bullshit, Atheon and I want straight up communism.
Quote from: Baruch on December 19, 2016, 07:03:03 AM
Some irrelevant BS...Also propaganda is OK, as long as it is D-party propaganda ... or do the D-party members have special Platonic organs, that allow them to own the truth?
Show me some Democratic propaganda, that is on the same level as Alex Jones.
No.
There is a difference between some ideological spin, and malicious slander.
Quote from: Hydra009 on December 19, 2016, 08:11:18 AM
You caught me. Clearly, one would have to be some sort of Marxist to advocate for a postnationalist political order. All that stuff about maintaining a strong constitutional democracy was bullshit, Atheon and I want straight up communism.
If you want straight up UN ... not a bad idea mind you ... then you are a minority in the Chinese/Indian empire. Would you like some curry on your ramen noodle?
The only person out there, who is like Alex Jones, is Alex Jones. What I don't care for is the smear that anyone who voted for someone other than Hillary, is an Alex Jones supporter. I didn't, and I am not.
I am not saying that differences of opinion on policy are fake news ... it is OK to have differences on policy. Should we go to war with Russia or not? I know where I stand on that one. What should we do about Native American rights and that pipeline route? Don't know where I stand. But if someone says that the oil/gas companies really care about Native American rights ... then I think we are looking at cow patties.
QuoteWhat should we do about Native American rights and that pipeline route? Don't know where I stand.
I'm sorry, but this is like saying, "I don't know where I stand on slavery. It's a complicated issue."
No, no it's really not.
Quote from: Baruch on December 19, 2016, 07:03:20 PM
If you want straight up UN ... not a bad idea mind you ... then you are a minority in the Chinese/Indian empire. Would you like some curry on your ramen noodle?
The only person out there, who is like Alex Jones, is Alex Jones. What I don't care for is the smear that anyone who voted for someone other than Hillary, is an Alex Jones supporter. I didn't, and I am not.
I am not saying that differences of opinion on policy are fake news ... it is OK to have differences on policy. Should we go to war with Russia or not? I know where I stand on that one. What should we do about Native American rights and that pipeline route? Don't know where I stand. But if someone says that the oil/gas companies really care about Native American rights ... then I think we are looking at cow patties.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l8rSHiCgjPM
Quote from: Baruch on December 19, 2016, 07:03:20 PMThe only person out there, who is like Alex Jones, is Alex Jones.
Not true. There are many more where he came from. Just peruse RightWingWatch for a few minutes, and you will be entertained, to say the least.
Quote from: BaruchWhat I don't care for is the smear that anyone who voted for someone other than Hillary, is an Alex Jones supporter. I didn't, and I am not.
I, for one,
never implied anything of the sort. Nor did I imply that I favor censorship, as you seemed to accuse me of, in an earlier post. But just because it's difficult to draw a line between slander and free speech, doesn't mean that it shouldn't be done. And Facebook, etc., are privately owned formats, who can set whatever rules they like. If they are finding there is line to be drawn, then more power to them. Welcome to the complexities of the human condition. There are no absolutes. Even our most precious law - the first amendment - needs exceptions, when it comes to blatant lies. Slander should not be protected.
Then call for a ban of all government communications ... if you don't like slander and lies .. but Congress is excepted ... just like they are from every other law.
Thomas Jefferson used fake news, and Alexander Hamilton used slander ...
http://www.theperspective.org/articles/0907200603.html
The powers that be need those like this Jones guy (if that really is his name...) because everyone knows he spews bullshit - so when he spews stuff like "9/11 was an inside job" (or other stuff they want us to completely discount) no one will take it seriously. He performs a much-needed service for the Deep State.
It's gonna be interested watching him defend the federal gubmit for 4 years, unless he instantly turns his back on Trump.
Quote from: The Skeletal Atheist on December 20, 2016, 05:41:48 PM
It's gonna be interested watching him defend the federal gubmit for 4 years, unless he instantly turns his back on Trump.
Alex Jones is a 9/11 Truther moderate. In what way does that make him Republican? Yes, anyone who doesn't criticize Trump ... is a Republican? As best I can tell, Alex Jones is a controversialist. Alex Jones recently appeared on Max Keiser, who is aired on RT (Russian TV) ... does that make him a Putin loving communist too?
Quote from: Baruch on December 20, 2016, 06:13:18 PM
Alex Jones is a 9/11 Truther moderate. In what way does that make him Republican? Yes, anyone who doesn't criticize Trump ... is a Republican? As best I can tell, Alex Jones is a controversialist. Alex Jones recently appeared on Max Keiser, who is aired on RT (Russian TV) ... does that make him a Putin loving communist too?
Dude practically sucked off trump the entire election.
Quote from: The Skeletal Atheist on December 20, 2016, 06:15:15 PM
Dude practically sucked off trump the entire election.
So what FEMA camp are you advocating to deal with this? Is everyone who "liked" Trump to be liquidated? I didn't, so I guess I am safe from Soylent Kosher.