Hard to tell in this tragic comedy of errors. The cops for going to the wrong address (unknown if it was the responders who made the address mistake, or if dispatch gave them the wrong address), or the home owner, with handgun in hand, for opening the door on a bunch of excited cops; then NOT following orders to drop the gun!
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/authorities-police-respond-to-wrong-house-shoot-homeowner/
NOTE: To all would be home defenders. If you feel the need to answer the door with a gun in hand (I've done so on more than one occasion--without any violence ensuing); fer Cripes sake! Sort out what's going on WITHOUT opening the door! I guarantee you'll avoid unwanted gunplay and bleeding! If you open the door (armed or not) you'll be dealing with "it" face to face; whether it's a heavily armed band of terrorist cats, girl scouts selling cookies, or befuddled police responding to the wrong address.
Let me repeat; Sheesh!
Quote from: Flanker1Six on June 09, 2016, 01:05:14 PM
Hard to tell in this tragic comedy of errors. The cops for going to the wrong address (unknown if it was the responders who made the address mistake, or if dispatch gave them the wrong address), or the home owner, with handgun in hand, for opening the door on a bunch of excited cops; then NOT following orders to drop the gun!
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/authorities-police-respond-to-wrong-house-shoot-homeowner/
NOTE: To all would be home defenders. If you feel the need to answer the door with a gun in hand (I've done so on more than one occasion--without any violence ensuing); fer Cripes sake! Sort out what's going on WITHOUT opening the door! I guarantee you'll avoid unwanted gunplay and bleeding! If you open the door (armed or not) you'll be dealing with "it" face to face; whether it's a heavily armed band of terrorist cats, girl scouts selling cookies, or befuddled police responding to the wrong address.
Let me repeat; Sheesh!
Worked with cops as a Firefighter in Provo City Corp. after the Navy. They are a mixed bag, to say the least. Some very smart dudes and some wanna be John Waynes and some guaranteed to shoot themselves in the foot. I know enough to not present myself in an aggressive manner. I have firearms but they don't get produced or brandished ever, unless there is a very good cause to do so. I know enough about the laws concerning the use of deadly force to be very, very careful about using it. Never had to produce a weapon and hope I never do. The problem is that too many people think gun first and caution second.
And you never know which cop you get at the door- the smart dude, John Wayne or the foot shooter. Definitely do not want to present yourself in any threatening way.
Quote from: stromboli on June 09, 2016, 02:00:19 PM
Worked with cops as a Firefighter in Provo City Corp. after the Navy. They are a mixed bag, to say the least. Some very smart dudes and some wanna be John Waynes and some guaranteed to shoot themselves in the foot. I know enough to not present myself in an aggressive manner. I have firearms but they don't get produced or brandished ever, unless there is a very good cause to do so. I know enough about the laws concerning the use of deadly force to be very, very careful about using it. Never had to produce a weapon and hope I never do. The problem is that too many people think gun first and caution second.
And you never know which cop you get at the door- the smart dude, John Wayne or the foot shooter. Definitely do not want to present yourself in any threatening way.
Generally if it is the cops, I open the door half naked, and smell like someone that the other jailbirds would throw out. But definitely never armed, instead I make words like a retarded old man. I don't have a good way to sus out the details on the other side of my steel door before I open it. But I hope I never have to slam that door on someones arm or leg, and they don't need to see what I have behind the door to wail on them ... I have no means of egress, so if it comes down to that, someone will die.
Well I'm not going to forgive the home owner but... If someone comes pounding on my door at midnight I'm probably going to strongly consider having a weapon in my hand before I open the door.
Something else to consider. If a cop is standing the in dark and hold up a standard issue flashlight that is shining on you, that cop no longer looks like a cop and instead now looks like a dark shadowy figure that could be wearing a police uniform or could be wearing a baggy track suit for all you know. So if I open my door armed to a bunch of voices holding flashlights and yelling at me to drop my gun? I'm gonna wanna see some ID first. And you telling me you're a cop without dropping your flashlight so that I can see you ain't gonna cut it. Not saying this is what happened, I have no way of knowing exactly what happened. But that is at least a plausible scenario for what might have happened.
No knock raids, with police out of uniform, in the dark, without presenting a badge ... these do happen ... and homeowners do die from it, particularly if they are breaking into the wrong house. The police have a protocol that they follow blindly ... if you are a deaf little old lady, and you don't drop the gun, they shoot you to kill. It is more important to protect the police ... than to kill an innocent home owner.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/05/25/jose-guerena-arizona-_n_867020.html