Should climate change skeptics be jailed? "We'll see", says Billy Nye. What a shame. Turns out Bill is more Nazi than liberal. Watch the first minute of the video and ignore the rest.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lj2_uqR3t_4
I don't get the same impression as you from the first minute of the video.
Your honestly calling him a Nazi for wanting to take action against morons with power to do better things then they are doing?
People who fuck up because environmental damage, should be held accountable.
Is David Attenborough a Nazi to for saying he dislikes human beings and prefers animals? Am I a Nazi for saying their are to many fucking human beings currently on the planet, and that the reason environment disasters kills so many people is because their are to many people to begin with?
SJW maybe, not Nazi. There are a lot of SJW that want to jail people for thought crime. Bill Nye shrugs his shoulders and eyebrows ... so no fanaticism there.
Lobbyists for the energy industry ... we might jail them however ... not for their thoughts, but for bribing politicians ;-)
The face of a company isn't science, it's marketing. If science says something to detract from a product, industries like sugar have to fund skewed studies to save their business and provide returns to investors. In the case of Exxon, when their own study results would have harmed their income, they were forced to bury them. This is capitalism. You can't punish people for doing their jobs. Besides, if this creative advertising causes harm to any people or planets, the ad executives will eventually get theirs. American money doesn't say, "In Gates We Trust."
What's phony about Bill Nye? Seems to me he was toning down the criminal aspect of the issue a bit--he did not leap to support the jailing of the climate change deniers. The creator of the video is putting words into his mouth. Poorly done video from my view.
It sounds more like Bill Nye is giving less of a straight answer and more like an I'm open minded to the option is what I get out of it.
I agree though that people destroying the environment should be jailed but I am crazy so what the hell do I know. And how exactly is that Nazi-ism? or fascism?
Actually that's quite a blanket statement I think each individual case will decide whether a person deserves to be jailed or fined or both.
Quote from: doorknob on May 20, 2016, 12:20:59 PMIt sounds more like Bill Nye is giving less of a straight answer and more like an I'm open minded to the option is what I get out of it.
Same here.
Quote from: transcriptAsked about the heated rhetoric surrounding the climate change debate, such as Robert F. Kennedy Jr.’s previous comments that some climate skeptics should be prosecuted as war criminals, Mr. Nye replied, “We’ll see what happens.â€
“Was it appropriate to jail the guys from Enron?†Mr. Nye asked in a video interview with Climate Depot’s Marc Morano. “We’ll see what happens. Was it appropriate to jail people from the cigarette industry who insisted that this addictive product was not addictive, and so on?â€
“In these cases, for me, as a taxpayer and voter, the introduction of this extreme doubt about climate change is affecting my quality of life as a public citizen,†Mr. Nye said. “So I can see where people are very concerned about this, and they’re pursuing criminal investigations as well as engaging in discussions like this.â€
Mr. Nye’s comments come with a coalition of liberal attorneys general pursuing companies that challenge the consensus of catastrophic climate change
He's floating the idea of deliberate malfeasance akin to the tobacco lobby's infamous efforts to deny/downplay the health problems associated with cigarettes rather than just holding an unpopular (and stupid) belief. Your guardian-variety idjit may not know any better, but corporate promoters of climate denialism surely do.
The tobacco settlement was class action, and very controversial legally. And the powers that be are doing all they can to force people into mandatory arbitration, and away from class action lawsuits. Away from lawsuits of any kind.
Everyone thinks it's nuts to jail climate change deniers. I wonder how people 100 years from now will feel about our attitude, in a time where a breath of fresh air or a glass of clean water are things that belong to the mythical past.
Climate change deniers give political cover to those who wish to halt and reverse environmental regulation. The sheer weight of the cumulative DURRRRRRRR spewed by their uneducated flock has lent a veneer of legitimacy to yet another position in american political discourse completely in opposition with reality.
While the pointless, merit less bickering drones on with no end in sight, the only place in the universe capable of sustaining human life slides deeper and deeper into unrecoverable ruin. Sounds pretty fucking criminal to me.
A great man once said give me liberty or give me death, perhaps never imagining that ultimately the universe would make us pay for our excessive liberty with our lives.
He doesn't respond with "We'll see", insinuating that he believes it might be a reasonable thing. He responds with "We'll see what happens", which seems to be indicating that he thinks it may be viable, but in context he asked if it would have been appropriate for the people at Enron or in the tobacco industry to have been jailed for actively spreading disinformation to protect their bottom lines. It's a whole lot different when you're talking about a corporation purposely lying to the public, in some cases leading directly to an increased death toll, in order to make more profits. In the two cases he mentioned, yes, people at Enron and in the tobacco industry should have been jailed. Corporate leaders and experts who lied in exchange for fat paychecks should be in prison right now.
In that context, is it appropriate to jail people in polluting industries who lie about the science in order to bolster profits, causing very real harm to the American people? Yes. Most definitely. Corporations have a proven history of lying about the safety of products, choosing the bottom line over public safety. Right not they're lying about global warming. Before that it was the tobacco industry. Before that it was the lead industry. And it's always happening in the pharmaceutical industry. If CEOs started landing in prison over this then the tobacco industry might not have not only actively worked against science for decades to convince people that tobacco was safe, but might have never actively tried so hard to get people hooked in the first place. MREs during WWII had Lucky Strikes in them whether you smoked or not. And there might be MILLIONS fewer homes with lead paint and water pipes today if leaders of the lead industry had a real fear of serious prison time for trading the health and safety of the American public for higher profits. And right now the coal industry would be simply quietly diverging into new, cleaner energy sources instead of pretending that there are tens of thousand of coal miners who REALLY want to keep working dangerous coal mines where their own lives take a back seat to corporate profits.
So, the average moron who thinks he knows something? No, and I don't think anybody is saying that. But corporate heads leaders who are actively and knowingly spreading disinformation, fucking the planet even worse for a few more years of higher profits? I've got no problem with that. And the "experts" who will make a report say anything you want for a buck? Fuck yes! And Andrew Wakefield, the asshole who got everyone afraid of vaccines by publishing bogus research on behalf of some lawyers suing the pharmaceutical industry? Fuck yes, he should be in prison! You take money from the devil you should spend time in prison getting to know him.
Quote from: Baruch on May 20, 2016, 06:46:28 AM
SJW maybe, not Nazi. There are a lot of SJW that want to jail people for thought crime. Bill Nye shrugs his shoulders and eyebrows ... so no fanaticism there.
Lobbyists for the energy industry ... we might jail them however ... not for their thoughts, but for bribing politicians ;-)
I agree with this. Do something about the bribery, and then maybe you'll have a better chance at getting legislation to do much more than is currently being done to combat climate change.
"You take money from the devil you should spend time in prison getting to know him."
It is devils all the way down. Human history is just one criminal gang against another. Money is what greases palms, liquid corruption.
Most people aspire to be white collar criminals, not to jail them.
Quote from: Baruch on May 20, 2016, 06:46:28 AM
SJW maybe, not Nazi. There are a lot of SJW that want to jail people for thought crime. Bill Nye shrugs his shoulders and eyebrows ... so no fanaticism there.
Lobbyists for the energy industry ... we might jail them however ... not for their thoughts, but for bribing politicians ;-)
This (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ExxonMobil_climate_change_controversy) is not thought crime. This is regular crime.
Quote from: widdershins on May 20, 2016, 04:00:50 PM
He doesn't respond with "We'll see", insinuating that he believes it might be a reasonable thing. He responds with "We'll see what happens", which seems to be indicating that he thinks it may be viable, but in context he asked if it would have been appropriate for the people at Enron or in the tobacco industry to have been jailed for actively spreading disinformation to protect their bottom lines. It's a whole lot different when you're talking about a corporation purposely lying to the public, in some cases leading directly to an increased death toll, in order to make more profits. In the two cases he mentioned, yes, people at Enron and in the tobacco industry should have been jailed. Corporate leaders and experts who lied in exchange for fat paychecks should be in prison right now.
In that context, is it appropriate to jail people in polluting industries who lie about the science in order to bolster profits, causing very real harm to the American people? Yes. Most definitely. Corporations have a proven history of lying about the safety of products, choosing the bottom line over public safety. Right not they're lying about global warming. Before that it was the tobacco industry. Before that it was the lead industry. And it's always happening in the pharmaceutical industry. If CEOs started landing in prison over this then the tobacco industry might not have not only actively worked against science for decades to convince people that tobacco was safe, but might have never actively tried so hard to get people hooked in the first place. MREs during WWII had Lucky Strikes in them whether you smoked or not. And there might be MILLIONS fewer homes with lead paint and water pipes today if leaders of the lead industry had a real fear of serious prison time for trading the health and safety of the American public for higher profits. And right now the coal industry would be simply quietly diverging into new, cleaner energy sources instead of pretending that there are tens of thousand of coal miners who REALLY want to keep working dangerous coal mines where their own lives take a back seat to corporate profits.
So, the average moron who thinks he knows something? No, and I don't think anybody is saying that. But corporate heads leaders who are actively and knowingly spreading disinformation, fucking the planet even worse for a few more years of higher profits? I've got no problem with that. And the "experts" who will make a report say anything you want for a buck? Fuck yes! And Andrew Wakefield, the asshole who got everyone afraid of vaccines by publishing bogus research on behalf of some lawyers suing the pharmaceutical industry? Fuck yes, he should be in prison! You take money from the devil you should spend time in prison getting to know him.
Ya, for intentionally cooking the #'s. I guess it happens a lot in all industries. But not Joe average for thinking :what:
Quote from: widdershins on May 20, 2016, 04:00:50 PM
He doesn't respond with "We'll see", insinuating that he believes it might be a reasonable thing. He responds with "We'll see what happens", which seems to be indicating that he thinks it may be viable, but in context he asked if it would have been appropriate for the people at Enron or in the tobacco industry to have been jailed for actively spreading disinformation to protect their bottom lines. It's a whole lot different when you're talking about a corporation purposely lying to the public, in some cases leading directly to an increased death toll, in order to make more profits. In the two cases he mentioned, yes, people at Enron and in the tobacco industry should have been jailed. Corporate leaders and experts who lied in exchange for fat paychecks should be in prison right now.
"We will see what happens," is not unreasonable in the context of "who knows what congress or the courts will do?" Will they hold someone responsible for loss of life, loss of home, loss of job? The effects of global warming will not be felt equally across the board. Some places will get floods, others draught, and some won't be affected, at least not right away. As the meteorological chaos progresses, the negative effects will be felt to varying degrees, by different individuals, along a timeline, and Congress will be looking to blame, because that's what they do.
But it will be a challenge to hold the biggest offenders responsible. First, Congress fails to pass laws that would prevent them from polluting the environment with carbon dioxide. Even polluters that put toxic chemicals into the ground water, are seldom punished. And our lawmakers favor them by delaying any legislative remedies. They are being handed a pass, a get out of jail free card. If laws were passed, offenders would stop this form of pollution, and yes, they might even go out of business. But it's going to be hard to punish offenders who, while acting unethically, are operating entirely within the law during the polluting phase.
But as Nye points out, "we will see what happens," because that's all that can happen, given that we have absolutely no way of predicting the future, or people's, or Congress' reaction to any given crisis. We can only wait and see.
Quote from: Mike Cl on May 20, 2016, 09:57:49 AM
What's phony about Bill Nye? Seems to me he was toning down the criminal aspect of the issue a bit--he did not leap to support the jailing of the climate change deniers. The creator of the video is putting words into his mouth. Poorly done video from my view.
I know the video was poorly done, and it's by a climate denier. That was the only video of the interview I could find. That's why I told people to watch Nye's part and skip the rest. I did overreact making this thread though, without completely understanding what Nye was saying.
Quote from: FaithIsFilth on May 21, 2016, 01:44:27 PM
I know the video was poorly done, and it's by a climate denier. ...
I did overreact making this thread though, without completely understanding what Nye was saying.
I don't think you over-reacted at all.
Quote[morano on Kennedy].. said that the climate deniers, his words, and energy CEO's belong at the Hague with 3 square meals and a cot with all the other war criminals. What is your thought on that; do you think some of the rhetoric on your side, as I'm sure both sides, do you think some of the rhetoric on your side gets too carried away... whats your thought on jailing skeptics as war criminals ah..
Nye does not respond to this question rather he deflects, poorly I might add, to Enron (an example of someone breaking actual laws) and cigarette manufactures (of which, none went to jail).
Quote from: rough transcript of NyeNye: We'll see what happens. Was it appropriate to jail all the guys from enron? Nye shrugs.
Morano:Answer me
NYE: Ok right, so we'll see what happens. If...Was it appropriate to jail people from the cigarette industry who insisted this addictive product was not addictive and so on. And you think about, in these cases, for me as a taxpayer and voter ah, the doubting, the introduction of this extreme doubt about climate change is affecting my quality of life as a public citizen so I can see where people are very concerned about this and are pursuing criminal investigations as well as, ah, as well as engaging in discussions like this
Then the 'science guy' hand waves the actual question off. It is irrelevant if he is a tax payer and voter. So are the climate deniers and energy CEOs.
From Wiki on Nye:
Residence: Los Angeles, California; New York City, New York
I doubt he rides a bicycle between LA and NYC. He flies, likely 1st class. Affects his quality of life? Bullshit. He doesn't give a thought about quality of life because the PoS has flown out of NYC long before the 'polar vortex' has fucked with his ability to depart JKF or LaGuardia...
Yeah, you were right to ask WtF...
Maybe it is Nye who belongs in the Hague. He's the 1% living between two of the most expensive cities in america while looking down upon the plebs ....
Edit: Why should one consider Nye belongs in the Hague? He believes carbon footprints are impacting lives and continues to do so. That is "with intent".
I will enjoy watching all the SJW folks donning fig leaves (heaven forbid animal skins) and going vegetarian and walking everywhere. Can't even use a bicycle, because the metal etc used ... required energy resources. Then again you can't ride a donkey either, you are denying the right of donkeys to be Consul of Rome (see Caligula). This is what happens when you turn puritan ... you either kill yourself or kill everyone else. There are people like this, they are called Jains ... and they live in India. The more extreme Jains even find clothing to be politically incorrect ;-)
Quote from: chill98 on May 22, 2016, 09:01:11 AM
I don't think you over-reacted at all.
Nye does not respond to this question rather he deflects, poorly I might add, to Enron (an example of someone breaking actual laws) and cigarette manufactures (of which, none went to jail).
Then the 'science guy' hand waves the actual question off. It is irrelevant if he is a tax payer and voter. So are the climate deniers and energy CEOs.
From Wiki on Nye:
Residence: Los Angeles, California; New York City, New York
I doubt he rides a bicycle between LA and NYC. He flies, likely 1st class. Affects his quality of life? Bullshit. He doesn't give a thought about quality of life because the PoS has flown out of NYC long before the 'polar vortex' has fucked with his ability to depart JKF or LaGuardia...
Yeah, you were right to ask WtF...
Maybe it is Nye who belongs in the Hague. He's the 1% living between two of the most expensive cities in america while looking down upon the plebs ....
Edit: Why should one consider Nye belongs in the Hague? He believes carbon footprints are impacting lives and continues to do so. That is "with intent".
So are we now advocating throwing anyone with a high paying job in prison? Are we commencing the communist uprising? Down with the proletariat?
The 1% exists but the whole overthrowing and redistributing thing doesn't work. And yeah he's earned his money and buys stuff and flies. He goes all over the continent and sometimes planet. Can't do that unless you use fossil fuels. Which ehs admitted to before
I would argue the point about his sayings but it's been done already. Simply get your head out of the crevice of your ass and you'll see it.
Obviously someone who noticed the hypocrisy of Mr "I invented the Internet" ;-) I will believe Al Gore when he stops being a politician ... which is never.
This is the 21st century version of late 20th century environmentalism. You don't see this among the poor in the Third World. They have more immediate things to worry about. This is a meme for the college educated children of the middle and upper class. Like whether my smart phone is smart enough this week!
Quote from: GrinningYMIR on May 22, 2016, 11:19:26 AM
So are we now advocating throwing anyone with a high paying job in prison? Are we commencing the communist uprising? Down with the proletariat?
Lemme guess...
you're adhd and proud of it.
Quote from: chill98 on May 22, 2016, 11:45:04 AM
Lemme guess...
you're adhd and proud of it.
Are you a cunt and proud of it? You certainly seem that way.
Quote from: Baruch on May 22, 2016, 11:14:39 AM
they are called Jains ... and they live in India. The more extreme Jains even find clothing to be politically incorrect ;-)
I often claim my religious affiliation as Skyclad Jain.
Quote from: gentle_dissident on May 22, 2016, 05:28:10 PM
I often claim my religious affiliation as Skyclad Jain.
Such devotees used to be found at the Mustang Ranch outside of Vegas ;-)
Quote from: Baruch on May 22, 2016, 05:43:17 PM
Such devotees used to be found at the Mustang Ranch outside of Vegas ;-)
Nope, I'm far removed from biker.
Quote from: GrinningYMIR on May 22, 2016, 11:19:26 AM
So are we now advocating throwing anyone with a high paying job in prison? Are we commencing the communist uprising? Down with the proletariat?
It's like Baruch seemed to imply, no one wants to jail them because many other people have generally dreamed of being them.
Quote from: GrinningYMIR on May 22, 2016, 11:19:26 AM
And yeah he's earned his money and buys stuff and flies. He goes all over the continent and sometimes planet. Can't do that unless you use fossil fuels.
Yea, he's probably too old to know about online meetings.
For completeness, here's Bill's personal life.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_Nye#Personal_life (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_Nye#Personal_life)
Quote from: gentle_dissident on May 22, 2016, 05:51:40 PM
For completeness, here's Bill's personal life.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_Nye#Personal_life (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_Nye#Personal_life)
Sounds like his true love turned into the marriage from Hell.
Quote from: SGOS on May 22, 2016, 06:01:21 PM
Sounds like his true love turned into the marriage from Hell.
It's at least bizarre.
Quote from: Baruch on May 22, 2016, 05:43:17 PM
Such devotees used to be found at the Mustang Ranch outside of Vegas ;-)
That's actually in Carson City.
Quote from: FaithIsFilth on May 20, 2016, 04:46:49 AM
Should climate change skeptics be jailed? "We'll see", says Billy Nye. What a shame. Turns out Bill is more Nazi than liberal. Watch the first minute of the video and ignore the rest.
https://www.youtube.com/watch
I'm pretty sure he's not referring to those that deny climate change is real, but rather, those in industry and politics that weild the weapons of power & influence.
Common folk can safely choose sides where the only consequence is being ostracized by fellow humans for holding an outdated, incoherent, and just outright wrong belief system.
Bill is on the right side of this, which ironically is to the left!
Quote from: GrinningYMIR on May 22, 2016, 03:46:43 PM
Are you a cunt and proud of it? You certainly seem that way.
ah, emotionally immature (if not a child) and adhd.
Must be a bummer to be you; though I imagine the above is just a short list of your deficiencies.
Quote from: chill98 on May 22, 2016, 09:08:53 PM
ah, emotionally immature (if not a child) and adhd.
Must be a bummer to be you; though I imagine the above is just a short list of your deficiencies.
My, don't you sound positively xian--full of judgments and finger pointing. But that's not childish.
Quote from: chill98 on May 22, 2016, 09:08:53 PM
ah, emotionally immature (if not a child) and adhd.
Must be a bummer to be you; though I imagine the above is just a short list of your deficiencies.
Emotional immaturity is saying "lol u a fag" I am not saying that. I am saying I would very calmly and politely beat the respect my fellow forum members and myself deserve into your dense skull were you not protected by the anonymity of the Internet.
You can take your high and mighty views somewhere else, or you can continue to show everyone here you're that much of a cunt, a word I shall refer to you as. Because you are nothing save for a negative and irritating source.
Quote from: Mike Cl on May 22, 2016, 10:42:05 PM
My, don't you sound positively xian--full of judgments and finger pointing. But that's not childish.
My, don't you sound a bit limited in life experience.
You should research the topic better and see where the childish/finger pointing cascades from.
Quote from: GrinningYMIR on May 22, 2016, 11:23:36 PM
Emotional immaturity is saying "lol u a fag" I am not saying that. I am saying I would very calmly and politely beat the respect my fellow forum members and myself deserve into your dense skull were you not protected by the anonymity of the Internet.
Great. Now add violent tendencies/anonymous threats to the list of deficiencies. You are oh so very brave from a distance!
Respect is earned.
Quote from: GrinningYMIR on May 22, 2016, 11:23:36 PM
You can take your high and mighty views somewhere else, or you can continue to show everyone here you're that much of a cunt, a word I shall refer to you as. Because you are nothing save for a negative and irritating source.
Ah, puppies and kittens is more your style!
You could choose to stay out of the grown up areas if you can't participate in mature conversations; and you can't [participate] likely due to those aforementioned deficiencies...
Was it nature or nurture that sent you on such a spiral?
Regardless, blame mommy and daddy for your issues, not the rest of the world.
Quote from: chill98 on May 23, 2016, 05:52:24 PM
My, don't you sound a bit limited in life experience.
You should research the topic better and see where the childish/finger pointing cascades from.
Okay, Chill, I'll bow out...............you two children carry on.
Quote from: chill98 on May 22, 2016, 09:01:11 AM
Nye does not respond to this question rather he deflects, poorly I might add, to Enron (an example of someone breaking actual laws) and cigarette manufactures (of which, none went to jail).
That's the thing. These people are not actually breaking laws. The scientific consensus is clear that man made climate change is happening, yet so many politicians refuse to do anything about it. David Suzuki suggests maybe jailing the politicians who refuse to do anything about it, but that's obviously not going to happen.
Quote from: FaithIsFilth on May 24, 2016, 02:12:36 PM
That's the thing. These people are not actually breaking laws. The scientific consensus is clear that man made climate change is happening, yet so many politicians refuse to do anything about it. David Suzuki suggests maybe jailing the politicians who refuse to do anything about it, but that's obviously not going to happen.
If you commit a little crime, you might get punished. If you commit a big crime, you might get elected ;-( The government is where the law breakers write the laws in their own favor.
Quote from: Baruch on May 24, 2016, 07:40:53 PM
If you commit a little crime, you might get punished. If you commit a big crime, you might get elected ;-( The government is where the law breakers write the laws in their own favor.
Thank you for saying what the government knows I'm thinking.
Quote from: FaithIsFilth on May 24, 2016, 02:12:36 PM
That's the thing. These people are not actually breaking laws. The scientific consensus is clear that man made climate change is happening, yet so many politicians refuse to do anything about it. David Suzuki suggests maybe jailing the politicians who refuse to do anything about it, but that's obviously not going to happen.
You're throwing a bunch of things together that do not align well.
1. These people are not breaking laws.
2. The scientific consensus is clear that man-made climate change is happening.
3. Many politicians refuse to do anything about it
4. Suzuki suggests jailing politicians
5. Thats not going to happen.
I guess the main point is these people are not breaking laws so they shouldn't go to jail. That was the question posed to Nye. Well part of the question. The other part was:
Quote from: transcribed contentdo you think some of the rhetoric on your side, as I'm sure both sides, do you think some of the rhetoric on your side gets too carried away..
I think the obvious answer is yes. The rhetoric gets too carried away.