European SUPERSTATE post-Brexit

[drunkenshoe]

Pat speaks the truth, I guess many cannot handle the truth

Pat doesn't know his 'arse' from his mouth. In the next decade British people will be crucifying people like Pat and any dumb fuck who campaigned for Brexit.

You are an Aussie right? If you want to visit London as the London or the UK as the UK we know it, do it in the next several years. Count down will start with Brexit and things will dramatically change in time. 

I still hope they will embrace the further embarrassment and go back. That will be forgotten or at least just fucking commercial reputation, but economical-social collapse; breaking the country up for no good won't have that kind of simple, easy to fix consequences.

[marom1963]

Pat doesn't know his 'arse' from his mouth. In the next decade British people will be crucifying people like Pat and any dumb fuck who campaigned for Brexit.

You are an Aussie right? If you want to visit London as the London or the UK as the UK we know it, do it in the next several years. Count down will start with Brexit and things will dramatically change in time. 

I still hope they will embrace the further embarrassment and go back. That will be forgotten or at least just fucking commercial reputation, but economical-social collapse; breaking the country up for no good won't have that kind of simple, easy to fix consequences.

Britain and Australia are still parts of the Commonwealth - and that is not nothing.
The Royal Family has already been deployed to shore up the national spirit w/members all making a wide assortment of appearances throughout the Kingdom. The toddler Prince George has been heavily featured, reminding everyone that he will be their future sovereign.
The nation that withstood WW 2 and the city, London, that had 70% of its buildings hit at least once during that war might surprise you w/how well it withstands Brexit.

[baronvonrort]

Pat doesn't know his 'arse' from his mouth. In the next decade British people will be crucifying people like Pat and any dumb fuck who campaigned for Brexit.

The only crucifying I see pics of these days are done by your neighbors the Islamic state.

Pat's shit is Akbar, you're butthurt Turkey isn't becoming part of the EU

[drunkenshoe]

Oh ffs...You are a whole new level of stupid.

[Siberia]

I don't see it happening any time soon. If nothing else, there is deep local attachment to existing monarchical dynasties that would preclude a quick giving up of national identity. The Netherlands, Belgium itself, Sweden, Spain, Liechtenstein. Luxembourg - all have monarchies that are well established and deeply loved by their subjects. Elizabeth II enjoys an 88% approval rating in the UK; I would imagine that the continental dynasties' approval ratings run as high.

Actually the Royal Family of Spain was ranked 4,4 out of 10 this year and the polls showed that only 54% of the population had a good opinion about our current King.

The problem with a EU super state is not about monarchy (just a decorative figure in most cases) but about economy and law.

Being different countries we have basic laws which change highly from place to place. Here you can go to jail for posting online a picture of a policeman on duty. Are the French going to accept that law? Obvioulsy not. Are our policemen going to accept the idea of being criminally prosecuted in case they commit a crime? Don't think so.
And obviously you can't just dismantle and leave jobless a force fulled of Ultra-nationalistic people with pseudo military training.

Also, if this super state had the same economic rules of workers rights, a German would start to earn 600e for 50hours a week of labour, or the current mediterranean enterprises would have to make equivalent salaries to the rest of the EU.

And i'm pretty sure they won't have any of that

[SGOS]

I read a headline this morning that suddenly the London stock market is set to hit new highs.  After the vote it crashed.  Now it's hitting new highs.  I didn't read the article.  However, the stock market's reaction to things, more specifically the interpretations for why the stock market does what it does according to the talking heads, often seems like talking heads trying to think of something to say.

[stromboli]

A monarchy without an army backing it specifically has no real power. I agree with Siberia- monarchies other than, say, Belgium or Luxembourg- which are largely ceremonial- aren't that popular and have no real power. As long as they are benign and put on a happy face, everybody loves them. There are currently 13 countries in Europe with monarchies. Pop quiz- name one monarchy that has a formidable standing army that neighbor countries feel threatened by. Answer? None. 

The advantages of a superstate are in sharing a common currency, mutual financial support and the easing of trade barriers from one country to the next; moving goods across borders. It makes sense only if those countries with surplus balance of trade and/or sellable skill sets are benign and give allowances (Germany) and are willing to prop up less productive countries (Greece).

Problems? Countries still have a national identity and we are not that far past being in conflict with each other. Germany has real clout economically. Greece has none. Germany has been under an austerity program that favors them- Greece tried to get rid of it and were quashed. Austerity programs have been derided by some top economists, yet everybody, including the U.S.- still operate under an austerity guideline.

The point of austerity was to combat the financial crisis created by the banks. Big problem now is that oil, one of the primary economic props internationally, has become so available that nobody will pay the necessary prices to keep countries afloat. Venezuela, Russia and other countries that did well with oil at top prices are wallowing or literally going down the drain now.

Germany is a tech heavy country that produces no oil, but has technology as their means to make money. Physically small, relatively poor resource wise, yet at the top of the heap largely because they are not dependent on a single non renewable resource. The old "don't put all your eggs in one basket" saying is certainly applicable in that sense.

And I for one do not write off Condell as being either senile or stupid. He makes some valid points. Simply blowing off a contrary viewpoint does not make you the better debater. Nationalism and loss of national identity, fear of immigrants (Islam) loss of jobs and so on still fuel the mindset of countries like Britain. I don't agree with a lot of what he says but he is not stupid.

How will it fall out? Not much will happen. Britain's pound will bounce up and down but will stabilize. The Euro isn't going away because too many countries rely on it. countries in central Europe don't work with borders because they can't move their goods as easily with tariffs. My prediction is a whole lot of noise and debate, no superstate and just smoke and mirrors until some form of stability based on either the rise of oil prices (not likely) or the common understanding that the austerity paradigm is outmoded and needs to be reconsidered. 

[Baruch]

Isn't the federal state of the USA is actually a superstate over the states of America?

For example, what would happen if there wasn't a Supreme Court?

Not exactly.  Local government in the US is more organic than in Europe.  In England they had to artificially create "councils".  Europe is simply more top/down feudal, people came to the US to escape all that.  The US court system for example, is bottom up.  That is why legal interpretation can vary from jurisdiction to jurisdiction.

But neither states nor native tribes have full autonomy.  Compare the EU constitution to the US constitution ;-)  The EU constitution has to official define Christianity in order to accommodate the Vatican.

[marom1963]

A monarchy without an army backing it specifically has no real power. I agree with Siberia- monarchies other than, say, Belgium or Luxembourg- which are largely ceremonial- aren't that popular and have no real power. As long as they are benign and put on a happy face, everybody loves them. There are currently 13 countries in Europe with monarchies. Pop quiz- name one monarchy that has a formidable standing army that neighbor countries feel threatened by. Answer? None. 

The advantages of a superstate are in sharing a common currency, mutual financial support and the easing of trade barriers from one country to the next; moving goods across borders. It makes sense only if those countries with surplus balance of trade and/or sellable skill sets are benign and give allowances (Germany) and are willing to prop up less productive countries (Greece).

Problems? Countries still have a national identity and we are not that far past being in conflict with each other. Germany has real clout economically. Greece has none. Germany has been under an austerity program that favors them- Greece tried to get rid of it and were quashed. Austerity programs have been derided by some top economists, yet everybody, including the U.S.- still operate under an austerity guideline.

The point of austerity was to combat the financial crisis created by the banks. Big problem now is that oil, one of the primary economic props internationally, has become so available that nobody will pay the necessary prices to keep countries afloat. Venezuela, Russia and other countries that did well with oil at top prices are wallowing or literally going down the drain now.

Germany is a tech heavy country that produces no oil, but has technology as their means to make money. Physically small, relatively poor resource wise, yet at the top of the heap largely because they are not dependent on a single non renewable resource. The old "don't put all your eggs in one basket" saying is certainly applicable in that sense.

And I for one do not write off Condell as being either senile or stupid. He makes some valid points. Simply blowing off a contrary viewpoint does not make you the better debater. Nationalism and loss of national identity, fear of immigrants (Islam) loss of jobs and so on still fuel the mindset of countries like Britain. I don't agree with a lot of what he says but he is not stupid.

How will it fall out? Not much will happen. Britain's pound will bounce up and down but will stabilize. The Euro isn't going away because too many countries rely on it. countries in central Europe don't work with borders because they can't move their goods as easily with tariffs. My prediction is a whole lot of noise and debate, no superstate and just smoke and mirrors until some form of stability based on either the rise of oil prices (not likely) or the common understanding that the austerity paradigm is outmoded and needs to be reconsidered.

I disagree. Spain's monarchy has the lowest approval rating - at the moment. The next lowest is the Netherlands at 77%. A US President would kill for a continuous 77% approval rating. Norway's monarchy has a 94% approval rating. Elizabeth II's nadir was an 82% approval rating during the Diana mourning crisis. Above 70% of the population fully expects Prince George one day to become king.

[Siberia]

I disagree. Spain's monarchy has the lowest approval rating - at the moment. The next lowest is the Netherlands at 77%. A US President would kill for a continuous 77% approval rating. Norway's monarchy has a 94% approval rating. Elizabeth II's nadir was an 82% approval rating during the Diana mourning crisis. Above 70% of the population fully expects Prince George one day to become king.

I don't see spanish monarchy rising.
The other eu royals have done a huge campaign to modern their image and appear more young and down to earth.
Statistics, the corruption cases within the family and the rise of anty-monarchy political parties suggest that the approval rate is dropping.

And I say "suggest" because after getting that fail in the ratings for the first time, the questions about the royal family have mysteriously disappeared from the polls

[Jason78]

I apologise, good sir. *Hangs head in shame.
How are you? How is the social climate over there? (I was coming to visit London this April even got my tickets and all, but couldn't because a fucking publishing company didn't pay my money. I am suspcious of pr's hand in the matter :P)

I'm good.  Socially it's much the same except the racists are banging their drum a little louder.  The sensible amongst us will probably just pop the kettle on, have a nice cup of tea and wait for this to all blow over.

Sorry to hear about all the trouble in Turkey lately.   

[drunkenshoe]

I'm good.  Socially it's much the same except the racists are banging their drum a little louder.  The sensible amongst us will probably just pop the kettle on, have a nice cup of tea and wait for this to all blow over.

Sorry to hear about all the trouble in Turkey lately.

Glad to hear you are OK. I personally hope they won't initiate it and find a good way to back pedal without upsetting people much. But my hopes are not that high.

Thanks, Jason. It's really bad. I lost all hope I guess. We have Brits and Americans stuck here in the little site I live in summers because international flights have been suspended for now. Hopefully, it will resolve soon.

[Baruch]

Siberia - The geographical ignorance of Americans can't be overestimated.  Most Americans think that bourbon only refers to a kind of whiskey ;-)  Spain and Portugal are special cases, because you had fascism until the 1970s.