Look, sorry to be a downer. I grew up in a household of people who believed in god, but we weren't church-going, bible-thumpers (no offense). I grew up believing in god, but my logical side keeps helping me realize that if there's a god, there's no way he's the god that churches tell me he is. He's more of that WBC god that hates everyone and wants to see us suffer (or at least me anyway).
Basically, my high school years were hell. My early 20's were spent suffering. My 30's were pretty good, just suffered from a chronic illness, as well as having a wife and son who suffer from illness as well (all three of us have different, serious, expensive illnesses). Now for my 40's, I get start over at the very beginning. Now, I'm hoping to hang onto my current career until I can find something new. If my health insurance ever lapses, that'll leave all three of us with pre-existing conditions and no chance for getting health insurance.
So, basically, my logical side realizes that there's no god. It's a farce. My suffering is because I was born unlucky. My emotional side says, "there's a god, he just hates you."
Anyone else struggle with this?
What's a god?
I feel for you. I wouldn't add worrying over whether you should believe in God to your list of things to worry about. Your remnants of belief will fade over time or not, nothing you can do about it.
Quote from: "dylansdad"my logical side realizes that there's no god. It's a farce. My suffering is because I was born unlucky. My emotional side says, "there's a god, he just hates you."
Anyone else struggle with this?
No. My issue is not whether he loves me or hates me. It's whether he exists. Here's my reasoning. I don't know there is no god. I just don't have a belief in one because there is no evidence. I'm not going to spend an ounce of energy on determining his exact nature if I have no evidence to tell me he exists in the first place.
Quote from: "dylansdad"Look, sorry to be a downer. I grew up in a household of people who believed in god, but we weren't church-going, bible-thumpers (no offense). I grew up believing in god, but my logical side keeps helping me realize that if there's a god, there's no way he's the god that churches tell me he is. He's more of that WBC god that hates everyone and wants to see us suffer (or at least me anyway).
Basically, my high school years were hell. My early 20's were spent suffering. My 30's were pretty good, just suffered from a chronic illness, as well as having a wife and son who suffer from illness as well (all three of us have different, serious, expensive illnesses). Now for my 40's, I get start over at the very beginning. Now, I'm hoping to hang onto my current career until I can find something new. If my health insurance ever lapses, that'll leave all three of us with pre-existing conditions and no chance for getting health insurance.
So, basically, my logical side realizes that there's no god. It's a farce. My suffering is because I was born unlucky. My emotional side says, "there's a god, he just hates you."
Anyone else struggle with this?
Look if you are serious, because we DO get poes here, But IF this is a serious post.
Your emotions are do to a lifetime of others scaring the shit out of you and fear of rejection because of doubting social norms. Many of us when what you are going through, you are not alone. But you can get over that over time.
God cant hate you anymore than Mickey Mouse or Lex Luthor or Allah can. How can something clearly fictional hate you? What you should hate is that you got poisoned with that fear mongering.
I can remember the first time I sought out other atheists online. I feared judgment if others found out what I was doing, and I wondered if I was joining some sort of lawless cult. But it only took me a couple of days to realize all the fear of atheists was just bullshit.
You'll get over it in time. You got sold a bill of goods and you linger because of what others poisoned your mind with.
I don't know what a "poes" is.
Going to college at a Catholic university is enough for anyone to understand that there's no god. I'm having a really rough year so far. And I find myself when I'm alone looking up at the sky and saying, "I hate you, too." I really don't get my reaction.
I don't see logically how a god can exist. But some times I wonder if my non-believe isn't what I really feel in my heart. And that if I have drawn a logical deduction based on an emotional feeling of abandonment from some pie in the sky fantasy.
Look, there was a time in my life when I didn't believe in Santa Claus, but I hoped he really did exist and I really hoped that he was gonna come down the chimney with a bag full of toys. And I get that there's no god and he's not coming with an eternal bliss of servitude. But I don't understand my reaction in bad times to place the blame on god. Transference, maybe?
I was just curious if I was alone. Apparently, I am.
Quote from: "Brian37"....You got sold a bill of goods and you linger because of what others poisoned your mind with.
Thanks for the response.
Quote from: "dylansdad"I don't know what a "poes" is.
Poe's Law (//http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poe%27s_law)
Atheists online reference this law regularly. Essentially it says that it's impossible to tell the difference between a true fanatic and a parody of a fanatic.
QuoteI was just curious if I was alone. Apparently, I am.
No, you're not. What you describe is very common among people who are in the process of shedding their faith. I went through similar thoughts myself a few years back.
It's not easy to simply discard beliefs that have been hammered in over a lifetime. Being angry at God for being an asshole is a pretty common reaction, often followed by being angry at the church for lying to you about God. Eventually, you will realize that there's no god to be mad at, and no point in being angry at deluded people for being deluded. Especially if you spent years being deluded yourself.
Deconversion can be a struggle.
Quote from: "dylansdad"So, basically, my logical side realizes that there's no god. It's a farce. My suffering is because I was born unlucky. My emotional side says, "there's a god, he just hates you."
Anyone else struggle with this?
Nope. It doesn't make a difference which untouchable 'agent' people hold responsible. You can't reason with god, you can't reason with luck.
Edit: Can't kick them in the groin either. And that sucks.
Quote from: "Bibliofagus"Quote from: "dylansdad"So, basically, my logical side realizes that there's no god. It's a farce. My suffering is because I was born unlucky. My emotional side says, "there's a god, he just hates you."
Anyone else struggle with this?
Nope. It doesn't make a difference which untouchable 'agent' people hold responsible. You can't reason with god, you can't reason with luck.
Edit: Can't kick them in the groin either. And that sucks.
QFT.
Luck is as absurd as God. Neither one exists.
Go with your logic, not your emotions.
AND give yourself time.
Hiyas. Hope you get past the self-hate and guilt.
Until then, here's some jams:
[youtube:c5p78myq]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jdrBP-Rq-J0[/youtube:c5p78myq]
Slayer? Srsly???
Get real!
[youtube:22c04z61]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IHmTqoLjlXo[/youtube:22c04z61]
8-)
lol, you don't like Slayer?
What else is wrong with you?
Quote from: "Davka"What you describe is very common among people who are in the process of shedding their faith. I went through similar thoughts myself a few years back.
It's not easy to simply discard beliefs that have been hammered in over a lifetime.
Atheists take the jump and find peace with the truth.
Quote from: "dylansdad"So, basically, my logical side realizes that there's no god. It's a farce. My suffering is because I was born unlucky. My emotional side says, "there's a god, he just hates you."
A bad situation. Why be stuck up with such a God? Choose a new God (or Goddess). It is within your right. :)
Quote from: "Thumpalumpacus"lol, you don't like Slayer?
What else is wrong with you?
I'm bi, I like psychedelic rock, and I hate thrash metal. Oh, and country music sucks unless it's serious mountain music.
Yes is the greatest band of all time.
Quote from: "Aupmanyav"Why be stuck up with such a God? Choose a new God (or Goddess). It is within your right. :)
That's what I love about you, Aup - you've got plenty of gods to go around. :-D
Quote from: "dylansdad"Look, there was a time in my life when I didn't believe in Santa Claus, but I hoped he really did exist and I really hoped that he was gonna come down the chimney with a bag full of toys. And I get that there's no god and he's not coming with an eternal bliss of servitude. But I don't understand my reaction in bad times to place the blame on god. Transference, maybe?
As you are aiming your anger at a most likely non-existent being I'm not sure transference is the best word, but it does seem like you have the need to blame someone. Maybe it's a good thing that you are blaming something that won't be hurt by it. It also appears that this hatred is directed at this concept with the knowledge that it most likely isn't true, with a slight high opening for doubt as to allow some placebo out of the event. Seeing how you already know it's illogical, and don't truly believe it, I don't really see the harm of this psychological exercise.
Try to, with time, leave this behind you, and improve your self-confidence, worth and strenght so that you can carry all the burdens by yourself - because if you can do that it's always for the best. One of the ways of doing this is to change your perspective. The cliche that you should look on the bright side of things do apply. Think how lucky you are to have found a life partner for instance, many don't. Think how lucky you are that you have a job, in a country above average quality of life wise. Try to do things that make you happy. Even though you might be in a bad situation it doesn't mean that everything, or even the majority of your life has to be bleak.
Quote from: "Davka"Quote from: "Thumpalumpacus"lol, you don't like Slayer?
What else is wrong with you?
I'm bi, I like psychedelic rock, and I hate thrash metal. Oh, and country music sucks unless it's serious mountain music.
Yes is the greatest band of all time.
Yes? What the blue fuck are you on, anyway? :rollin:
As for country, I dig me some old Willie, Waylon, Johnny C, and others.
Quote from: "Davka"Quote from: "Aupmanyav"Why be stuck up with such a God? Choose a new God (or Goddess). It is within your right. :)
That's what I love about you, Aup - you've got plenty of gods to go around. :-D
Seriously, it also helps to break the stranglehold of one and only. 8-)
If times get REALLY tough you could always just make up a new god, get a bunch of people to believe in them, then make a butt load of money. worst case scenario you wind up selling a few t-shirts.
no, but seriously, hope you make it through.
Quote from: "Aupmanyav"Quote from: "Davka"What you describe is very common among people who are in the process of shedding their faith. I went through similar thoughts myself a few years back.
It's not easy to simply discard beliefs that have been hammered in over a lifetime.
Atheists take the jump and find peace with the truth.Quote from: "dylansdad"So, basically, my logical side realizes that there's no god. It's a farce. My suffering is because I was born unlucky. My emotional side says, "there's a god, he just hates you."
A bad situation. Why be stuck up with such a God? Choose a new God (or Goddess). It is within your right. :)
Welcome !
Why is it really that much of a problem that you do believe? You believe what you believe and feel how you feel. Instead of being self-judgmental, why not just be and feel and let the thoughts happen? You'll come to a conclusion if you want to. A decision of what you really want.
Meanwhile don't beat yourself up too much. You is what you is. :)
Quote from: "Davka"Quote from: "Thumpalumpacus"lol, you don't like Slayer?
What else is wrong with you?
I'm bi, I like psychedelic rock, and I hate thrash metal. Oh, and country music sucks unless it's serious mountain music.
Yes is the greatest band of all time.
That's so wrong, everyone knows that Rush is the greatest band of all time.
Quote from: "Davka"No, you're not. What you describe is very common among people who are in the process of shedding their faith. I went through similar thoughts myself a few years back.
It's not easy to simply discard beliefs that have been hammered in over a lifetime. Being angry at God for being an asshole is a pretty common reaction, often followed by being angry at the church for lying to you about God. Eventually, you will realize that there's no god to be mad at, and no point in being angry at deluded people for being deluded. Especially if you spent years being deluded yourself.
Deconversion can be a struggle.
Yup, I'm still undergoing this struggle myself. It can be lonely and depressing at times, but it was a relief knowing the idea that there's no big old entity who condemns you for certain harmless actions.
Welcome to this forum, op, hope you'll find what you're looking for.
Quote from: "NitzWalsh"Quote from: "Davka"Quote from: "Thumpalumpacus"lol, you don't like Slayer?
What else is wrong with you?
I'm bi, I like psychedelic rock, and I hate thrash metal. Oh, and country music sucks unless it's serious mountain music.
Yes is the greatest band of all time.
That's so wrong, everyone knows that Rush is the greatest band of all time.
Meh. Rush only knows one song, and they play it over and over with different lyrics. Tom Sawyer is the best iteration of the Rush song, but once you've heard it, the rest of their music is so derivative that it's a crime.
Rush always really wanted to be Yes. They just didn't quite have the chops.
Quote from: "Davka"Quote from: "Thumpalumpacus"lol, you don't like Slayer?
What else is wrong with you?
I'm bi, I like psychedelic rock, and I hate thrash metal. Oh, and country music sucks unless it's serious mountain music.
Yes is the greatest band of all time.
Lol, I listen to Beethoven, I say the piano maneuvers are more psychedlic than the thrashing of the same chord ;P
Quote from: "maestroanth"Quote from: "Davka"Quote from: "Thumpalumpacus"lol, you don't like Slayer?
What else is wrong with you?
I'm bi, I like psychedelic rock, and I hate thrash metal. Oh, and country music sucks unless it's serious mountain music.
Yes is the greatest band of all time.
Lol, I listen to Beethoven, I say the piano maneuvers are more psychedlic than the thrashing of the same chord ;P
The musicians in Yes are classically trained. They often perform with a full orchestra. Even when it's just them playing all-electric, you can hear the difference:
[youtube:rqcgg5pl]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DAPbpW6EJ3Y[/youtube:rqcgg5pl]
Give it at least 3 minutes. Even if you don't like it, you'll understand why others do.
Another way to look at it, god does indeed hate you. He despises you more than anything ever created because he's absolutely and utterly powerless to harm you in any way, shape or form now or at any time in the future..
Hey, it could be worse.. You could have been born really fat, ugly and stupid and live forever.. :-k
Anybody claiming that one band is the greatest is a fuckin crackpot diphead. There have been way too many bands to proclaim any band is the best. Other than the Moody Blues of course, they are above and beyond mortal bands what with their crappy lyrics and copy n pasta shit they call music......the Moodies are actual gods.
Quote from: "aitm"Anybody claiming that one band is the greatest is a fuckin crackpot diphead. There have been way too many bands to proclaim any band is the best. Other than the Moody Blues of course, they are above and beyond mortal bands what with their crappy lyrics and copy n pasta shit they call music......the Moodies are actual gods.
Uhhh...any band except YOUR favorite? See above: fucking crackpot diphead... The rule applies to all.. :-k
Quote from: "aitm"Anybody claiming that one band is the greatest is a fuckin crackpot diphead. There have been way too many bands to proclaim any band is the best. Other than the Moody Blues of course, they are above and beyond mortal bands what with their crappy lyrics and copy n pasta shit they call music......the Moodies are actual gods.
I used to think that, too. Until I listened to "A Question Of Balance" again, and realized they actually wrote a lot of pretentious hackneyed lyrics.
I mean, come on - are you honestly going to try to pass this off as great art:
[youtube:yx99k4rr]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XL4QARsT-4c[/youtube:yx99k4rr]
Quote from: "AllPurposeAtheist"Quote from: "aitm"Anybody claiming that one band is the greatest is a fuckin crackpot diphead. There have been way too many bands to proclaim any band is the best. Other than the Moody Blues of course, they are above and beyond mortal bands what with their crappy lyrics and copy n pasta shit they call music......the Moodies are actual gods.
Uhhh...any band except YOUR favorite? See above: fucking crackpot diphead... The rule applies to all.. :-k
tut tut my good man, the difference is I clarified, you see I said "Other than the Moody Blues" see? That makes the difference. Moodies are of course gods and your band sucks, and they really suck, bad. And when I say bad, I mean suck real real squirrel getting fucked by a pig bad.....so there.
Quote from: "Davka"Quote from: "aitm"Anybody claiming that one band is the greatest is a fuckin crackpot diphead. There have been way too many bands to proclaim any band is the best. Other than the Moody Blues of course, they are above and beyond mortal bands what with their crappy lyrics and copy n pasta shit they call music......the Moodies are actual gods.
I used to think that, too. Until I listened to "A Question Of Balance" again, and realized they actually wrote a lot of pretentious hackneyed lyrics.
I mean, come on - are you honestly going to try to pass this off as great art:
[youtube:1eihr0my]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XL4QARsT-4c[/youtube:1eihr0my]
do not trifle with the gods of music boy...they are indeed the gods, and you should of course bow right now and kiss the ground you pagan fuck.
Quote from: "aitm"do not trifle with the gods of music boy...they are indeed the gods, and you should of course bow right now and kiss the ground you pagan fuck.
Anyone who has ever watched Jack Black in
School Of Rock knows that Led Zeppelin are the gods of rock.
And anyone who hasn't watched
School Of Rock is not worthy to lick the ground rock shits on.
Well, you're older than me, so you know what I'm talking about when I say that I still sometimes struggle with the fear of an eternity in Hell that the Catholic church spent many years brainwashing me into having.
But the "God hates me" or "the universe hates me" is an old chestnut that everyone gets into, atheist or otherwise. As C-3PO would have said, "We seem to be made to suffer. It's our lot in life."
And please don't take this as an insult, it's not meant to be - but that is an INCREDIBLY self-centered way to look at things. I can guarantee you that neither the universe nor any sort of god cares enough about you and YOU SPECIFICALLY to want to make you and your family suffer for something you may or may not have done. There is a section in Chris Hardwick's book, "The Nerdist Way: How to Reach the Next Level in Real Life" that talks about this very concept.
From the section "Why Things Don't Go Your Way"
"If you enjoy philosophy or physics, then you must know that perspective is everything. Events are inherently valueless. WE assign values to them.
How you perceive something gives it its value. Two people can perceive the same thing in completely opposite ways, and both would seem valid
for each person (look up "parallax" just for fun). It is through this lens that you begin to realize the power you have to shape your reality. What is
reality? It's merely a string of perceptions that you navigate. Control your perceptions and you control your reality. Why, if you were a solipsist, you
would actually think that NOTHING outside your own perspective actually exists. That would mean that from my point of view, you are an extension of
my psyche reading my book, and from yours, I wrote this in your mind. See why philosophy is so much fun? OK, fuck solipsism.
It is very likely that when things don't pan out the way you intended, you kick the shit out of yourself. You reason that this is yet another in a long
chain of events that are part of a master plan on the part of the Universe to conspire with the Elements against you. This is naturally a pile of Orc
shit. No one is conspiring against you. This isn't just "how it is" for you. Nerds, because they tend to tune in to their inner monologue more than
regular folks, many times will assume the most selfish point of view. To think that the Universe (a) is sentient and (b) would focus all or even part of
its energy to ensure your unhappiness is laughable and more than a little self-centered. But it's not all the Nerd's fault. It's human nature to attach
reasoning to events in an attempt to understand an otherwise reasonless world, no matter how ridiculous. (AHEMreligionAHEM COUGHthough
notjudgingyouifyouarereligiousCOUGH.) For people who normally operate from pragmatic and logical places, it is surprisingly superstitious."
So yeah. Please don't at all think I'm making fun of you or belittling you. I'm not, no one here is (intentionally). But whether there's a god or cosmic force or not? You are not the target of its wrath.
Mind you, you MAY be cursed by a witch, which is an entirely different thing. See Arrogan's Dread Compendium of Curses, page 98, under counter spells and anti hexes.
Saying "God hates me" is especially ridiculous when you consider the Christian implication that God hates everyone and only want them to tell Him how great He is forever or torture them for eternity if they don't.
You can definately hear the difference with Yes. I'm not sure I like it, but it's definately people who know how to make music.
God is the Bogeyman (//http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bogeyman) for adults who think like children.
I would like to nominate this thread for the "most hijacked introduction" category.