I am tired of dIsamophobia. It is a word, not a theory and it is a deliberate attempt to obfuscate and trivialise religious violence. Why don't we use the word "bigot" instead. It would be more appropriate and would kill two birds with one stone by allowing people to call out any down home bigotry without having to compromise the message on the dangers of religious fanaticism.
I am sick of people who call me -or anyone else for that matter- anti-semitist when I criticise the blatantly genocidal war policies of Israel.
I am sick of being called anti-American whenever I criticise the international policies of the USA based on war industries and war itself as an industry.
I am sick of being called an 'apologist' whenever I remind that the idea behind those policies are pretty much the same with what islamic terrorists have and trying to accomplish.
They are all deliberate attempts to obfuscate and trivialise the naked agression and millions of death tolls world has suffered for the last 60 years and still suffering. So it is a bit more than just bigotry. The appropriate term is Terrorist States. Trust me, it kills more than 2 birds.
1liesalot ... polemic and apologetic aren't honest discussion ... they are too defensive and too aggressive. "Islamaphobia" is an apologetic ... like the Church Fathers writing that not only were the early Gentile Christians not subversive hippies, but that they were more pro-Roman than the pagans.
We can choose to live in fear on our knees, or we can live in hope on our own two feet. I am not into the future much, but that is what one can do. Of course hope is the last plague not let out of Pandora's box. One has to act every day in every way for a better world to happen, Adam Smith's hidden hand won't do.
Islamaphobia is a word that gets slung at people like mud.
Some people really are islamaphobic as with anything. But I think just speaking against islam gets this word hurled at you.
Same as saying that any Jew does anything bad (for real) ... you get called anti-semitic, even if you are Jewish. But I think this mostly happens if the other party is a minority or some "other" ... the majority doesn't do this PC ritual when it is just them. It is easier for us to believe the falsehood, that if one or a few people do a bad thing ... then they all do ... when it isn't the majority we are talking about ... they would respond with "who? me?". Generally in a quantitative way, the majority is doing more damage than any minority.
Quote from: doorknob on September 15, 2015, 07:22:14 AM
Islamaphobia is a word that gets slung at people like mud.
Some people really are islamaphobic as with anything. But I think just speaking against islam gets this word hurled at you.
pretty much. From what I hear, in Sweden, even mentioning the word out in public is considered an offense and something that can get to arrested.
Islamophobia isn't a real thing, it's a word make up by PC sensitivity Nazis to bash people in the head with if they say anything bad about Islam and especially when they relate Islam to terrorism. I hate Islam. I also hate Christianity. I essentially hate organized religion and find people who believe in magic to be altogether silly. No, not all Muslims are terrorists, but a good share of terrorists are Muslim, therefore relating the two is fair. Yes, there are decent Muslims out there and I can respect them, as people. Their religion, however is batshit crazy and full of people who use it as an excuse to attack anyone not like them. Pretty much Christianity on crazy ass steroids. SOME people don't take it that way, and good for them. But that's on them, not on the religion itself. The Qur'an says I deserve to die because I don't believe the Qur'an. Islam is based on the Qur'an. Therefore Islam is shit, even if some people who follow Islam aren't total dicks about it. Pretty straight forward logic as far as I'm concerned. If someone wants to call me an Islamophobe for that, I don't really have a problem with anything any festizio has to say about me.
I don't fear Islam in the sense more than I have a phobia for ideas, like any belief in the supernatural, I just think they're plain wrong.
Because Islam really is the most dangerous and violent religion in the world - not because of what every muslim believes, nor what every muslim teaches, but its people as a whole have proven to be most untrustworthy when it comes to long-term mutual tolerance, peaceful behavior, and respect for the value of all human life within their own groups. They are culturally not tuned in to the Western standards of justice for all, and it doesn't matter when some among them are non-violent, most of them aren't going to report violence when they see it because a) they accept as authority those who insist their violence is just, or b) they are afraid to report on for fear of their own safety. It's the Islamic followers who kill people in Europe and America, not the Hindus, not the Buddhists, and not the Jews (not even the most fundamentalist sects among them), despite the fact that each has about the same population densities in these cultures. Islam is a violent culture because it is founded on the philosophy of intolerance and cultural expansionism. They really don't understand what it means to coexist peacefully with people who think differently from them
Peacewithoutgod ... it isn't that you are wrong about Muslims ... but that you are wrong about Infidels. The West isn't about justice at all. Don't drink the kool-aid in Jonestown.
Quote from: Baruch on September 15, 2015, 06:47:17 PM
Peacewithoutgod ... it isn't that you are wrong about Muslims ... but that you are wrong about Infidels. The West isn't about justice at all. Don't drink the kool-aid in Jonestown.
Baruch, it's about Western judicial ideals, not our unfortunate foreign policies.
But lawyers and judges aren't even worth pissing on ... the SCOTUS in particular!
Quote from: peacewithoutgod on September 15, 2015, 06:45:20 PM
Islam is a violent culture because it is founded on the philosophy of intolerance and cultural expansionism.
Pot meet kettle.
Quote from: peacewithoutgod on September 15, 2015, 06:45:20 PM
Because Islam really is the most dangerous and violent religion in the world - not because of what every muslim believes, nor what every muslim teaches, but its people as a whole have proven to be most untrustworthy when it comes to long-term mutual tolerance, peaceful behavior, and respect for the value of all human life within their own groups. They are culturally not tuned in to the Western standards of justice for all, and it doesn't matter when some among them are non-violent, most of them aren't going to report violence when they see it because a) they accept as authority those who insist their violence is just, or b) they are afraid to report on for fear of their own safety. It's the Islamic followers who kill people in Europe and America, not the Hindus, not the Buddhists, and not the Jews (not even the most fundamentalist sects among them), despite the fact that each has about the same population densities in these cultures. Islam is a violent culture because it is founded on the philosophy of intolerance and cultural expansionism. They really don't understand what it means to coexist peacefully with people who think differently from them
Out of sheer curiosity, how many Muslims do you actually know? Like, talk to them, get to know them, know... Not, "oh, I saw them walking around town once.".
Quote from: doorknob on September 15, 2015, 07:22:14 AM
Islamaphobia is a word that gets slung at people like mud.
Some people really are islamaphobic as with anything. But I think just speaking against islam gets this word hurled at you.
We should be able to condemn the heinous acts of suicide bombers and the killing of cartoonists and other innocents without being accused of some sort of jingoistic phobia. We have good reason to worry about Islamic fundamentalism and martyr syndromes. ISIS think we are in the end times. Could you imagine them getting their hands on a nuclear bomb? They would use it. So it's in everybody's interests to challenge religious extremism, wherever we see it.
Quote from: Baruch on September 15, 2015, 07:06:55 PM
But lawyers and judges aren't even worth pissing on ... the SCOTUS in particular!
They are worth removing, for the interest of preserving justice.
Quote from: CrucifyCindy on September 15, 2015, 07:22:01 PM
Pot meet kettle.
Cindy, reread what you just quoted - especially that part "founded on the philosophy of intolerance". In which part of Western philosophy do you find "intolerance"? Yes, that bit was followed by a conjunction with "expansionism", which is also Western philosophy, and since I was addressing Islam not only as a culture but a religion, both the Western religion and Islam are philosophically expansionist.
What is your religion, Cindy? If you are Christian, then you can shut the fuck up now! I have no religion, being an atheist - atheism doesn't even entail a specific philosophy, although mine is that I am willing to let others be if they will not menace others for being different and will not raise their children under oppressive conditions.
"Pot meet Kettle"? You are by far the snarkiest little hypocrite who I've seen on this site!
I'm a DonaldTrumpaphobe.
Just another buzzword. Another will be along soon.....
Quote from: AllPurposeAtheist on September 16, 2015, 11:06:22 AM
I'm a DonaldTrumpaphobe.
There is a Ten Step Group just for you ... in a few short weeks of brainwashing, you will even be willing to support Rick Perry for President ;-)
Quote from: peacewithoutgod on September 16, 2015, 10:26:20 AM
In which part of Western philosophy do you find "intolerance"?
You have to be kidding me. Seriously?
QuoteYou are by far the snarkiest little hypocrite who I've seen on this site!
Thank you! I take pride in my snark.
By the way are you going to answer Shiranu's question or not?
Quote from: Shiranu on September 15, 2015, 10:05:30 PM
Out of sheer curiosity, how many Muslims do you actually know? Like, talk to them, get to know them, know... Not, "oh, I saw them walking around town once.".
Shiranu,
How many Muslims have you directly addressed on their religious beliefs? When challenged, do they or do they not become defensive, every bit as badly any Christian fundamentalist? Do you live in a culture which is primarily Christian, or primarily Islamic? I know many Christians who aren't really sheep with fangs when others question their ideas, and I've no doubt there are Muslims who are no different. I am at least as Christophobic as I am Islamophobic, and I owe nobody an apology for that. I dislike the ideas behind both religions, and to be honest I'm not quite certain which is the most cruel to it's believers, but I am specifically concerned with the doctrinary philosophy of Islam, and how the Quran feeds these doctrines which justify murder, rape, and genocide. More so even than the doctrines taught in mainstream American churches because they are quite largely still taught today by Islamic leaders.
Quote from: CrucifyCindy on September 16, 2015, 01:21:51 PM
You have to be kidding me. Seriously?
Thank you! I take pride in my snark.
By the way are you going to answer Shiranu's question or not?
Still waiting for you to answer the question on whether you are a theist, or just fucking with everybody.
So Cindy, are or are you not a theist?
If so, then which god are you a theist for?
Quote from: peacewithoutgod on September 16, 2015, 02:18:56 PM
Still waiting for you to answer the question on whether you are a theist, or just fucking with everybody.
I have answered that question. Yes I am a theist and yes I am fucking with everybody.
QuoteSo Cindy, are or are you not a theist?
Yes!
QuoteIf so, then which god are you a theist for?
Well being that I am a polytheist I would have to say...all of them including my personal favorite Cthulhu
Quote from: peacewithoutgod on September 16, 2015, 02:16:43 PM
Shiranu,
How many Muslims have you directly addressed on their religious beliefs? When challenged, do they or do they not become defensive, every bit as badly any Christian fundamentalist? Do you live in a culture which is primarily Christian, or primarily Islamic? I know many Christians who aren't really sheep with fangs when others question their ideas, and I've no doubt there are Muslims who are no different. I am at least as Christophobic as I am Islamophobic, and I owe nobody an apology for that. I dislike the ideas behind both religions, and to be honest I'm not quite certain which is the most cruel to it's believers, but I am specifically concerned with the doctrinary philosophy of Islam, and how the Quran feeds these doctrines which justify murder, rape, and genocide. More so even than the doctrines taught in mainstream American churches because they are quite largely still taught today by Islamic leaders.
Deflect. Deflect. Deflect. Or is it you are incapable of answering a simple question.
QuoteIn which part of Western philosophy do you find "intolerance"?
See; The entire history of all of Europe.
See; The "anthropology" of England that claimed they were a superiour "culture" (race) than any other, and thus had the right to do anything they wanted to "lesser cultures" because they weren't "human like us".
See; Romanticism, a huge movement that even today heavily influences Western culture, that put an emphasis on the "volk"... particularly the volk of the nation of the author or painter. This heavily influenced men like Napoleon and Hitler, who used the same rhetoric the Romantic poets and authors did to stir the people up (and it worked).
See; The Inquisitions, the Holocaust, the Crusades, the the 1215 Fourth Lateran Council, the Renaissance and how it change the perceptions of Jews, Maria Theresa and Frederick II's comments and expelling of Jews from Austria and Prussia respectively, and so on and so forth...
See; The various laws throughout European history that have declared one race inferiour to the other.
See; The slave trade and massacres in Europe, from the mass shipping of Africans to the Americas to the massacres by Belgium and Italy at the turn of the century.
See; How ethic minority groups, such as the Basque, the Catalonians, the Welsh, the Scots, the Irish, etc. etc. were treated by the powers around them.
I could go on, but I think you should be able to grasp the point by now.
QuoteHow many Muslims have you directly addressed on their religious beliefs?
Two, and it was after they brought up. I don't particularly go around confronting anyone, Muslim, Jewish, Christian, Buddhist, whatever on their religious belief because if they are not harming me, or harming anyone else, it's no one's damn business what faith they practice. And that is how they felt about my atheism.
I do ask questions about their religious practices on an anthropology ground, since that is my field of study and my hobby, but that is suppose to be, like any science, objective and without judgment. And I am just genuinely curious, cultures fascinate me.
QuoteWhen challenged, do they or do they not become defensive, every bit as badly any Christian fundamentalist?
Well I've never challenged them over their faith because I have no reason to, so I wouldn't know. None of them stone gays (or even have said anything negative about the LGBT community). None of them send money to ISIS and Al-Queda. Most of them are women and, frankly, have more ambition than most non-Muslim women I know (though that likely has more to do with the fact they are immigrants rather than their religion). When ever I told the two of them I was atheist, their response was, "Oh, that's cool. Yeah, I'm not really that heavy into Islam or take it literally, it's just how I was raised and part of my culture." (Aka, the exact same thing most Christians say).
And there is your issue; because they are Muslim, they are therefor fundamentalist and should act like Christian fundamentalists? I admit, I know a small sample size... maybe 10 I talk to with any regularity, but I have yet to meet a Muslim fundamentalist. Most of them are more politically progressive than any average American I know (two of them are fans of Bernie Sanders and more socialist styles of government, and the Egyptian was a technocrat... which is about as far removed from a theocracy fan as you could get.) and far more socially aware as well (again, more to do with being a minority than their religion I would assume). My favourite in terms of appearance is one Muslim man who comes in covered in tattoos, uses vulgarities and wears the little hat.
QuoteDo you live in a culture which is primarily Christian, or primarily Islamic?
I live in Texas, South/Central Texas, so I'll let you decide from there :P.
QuoteI am at least as Christophobic as I am Islamophobic, and I owe nobody an apology for that.
You certainly don't, but it's an extremely self-limiting world view and when you let it influence your opinion on people you have never met and completely misjudge their character because of prejudices... it's no different than a racist saying, "I shouldn't have to apologize for assuming this black guy is from the ghetto and smokes crack.".
So again, how many Muslims do you actually know?
Quote from: CrucifyCindy on September 16, 2015, 02:44:05 PM
I have answered that question. Yes I am a theist and yes I am fucking with everybody.
Yes!
Well being that I am a polytheist I would have to say...all of them including my personal favorite Cthulhu
Since you admit you are fucking with anybody, then you should not expect any respect for your ideas in return.
An example of Islamophobia is seeing a Muslim walking down the street, behaving like anyone else, and assuming he must be up to no good. Another is assuming an apparent terrorist attack was perpetrated by Muslims before any evidence is in. Another is seeing a Muslim kid hand in a clock for a science assignment, and assuming it's a bomb, having him cuffed and arrested. Another is profiling Muslims at airports, etc.
The following are not examples of Islamophobia: criticizing Islam, and all religions, for being an irrational belief system. Condemning Islamic extremists for their penchant for terrorism. Criticizing or disobeying local ordinances that demand that non-Muslims abide by Islamic law in non-theocratic countries. Profiling suspicious behaviors (rather than dress, skin color, religion, etc.) at airports etc.
Basically, Islamophobia is assuming that a random Muslim is a bad person before any evidence is in to back up that idea. It's like seeing a black person and assuming, without evidence, that he is a bad person. It's prejudice; i.e. pre-judging.
Quote from: Shiranu on September 17, 2015, 06:24:09 PM
See; The entire history of all of Europe.
See; The "anthropology" of England that claimed they were a superiour "culture" (race) than any other, and thus had the right to do anything they wanted to "lesser cultures" because they weren't "human like us".
See; Romanticism, a huge movement that even today heavily influences Western culture, that put an emphasis on the "volk"... particularly the volk of the nation of the author or painter. This heavily influenced men like Napoleon and Hitler, who used the same rhetoric the Romantic poets and authors did to stir the people up (and it worked).
See; The Inquisitions, the Holocaust, the Crusades, the the 1215 Fourth Lateran Council, the Renaissance and how it change the perceptions of Jews, Maria Theresa and Frederick II's comments and expelling of Jews from Austria and Prussia respectively, and so on and so forth...
See; The various laws throughout European history that have declared one race inferiour to the other.
See; The slave trade and massacres in Europe, from the mass shipping of Africans to the Americas to the massacres by Belgium and Italy at the turn of the century.
See; How ethic minority groups, such as the Basque, the Catalonians, the Welsh, the Scots, the Irish, etc. etc. were treated by the powers around them.
I could go on, but I think you should be able to grasp the point by now.
Two, and it was after they brought up. I don't particularly go around confronting anyone, Muslim, Jewish, Christian, Buddhist, whatever on their religious belief because if they are not harming me, or harming anyone else, it's no one's damn business what faith they practice. And that is how they felt about my atheism.
I do ask questions about their religious practices on an anthropology ground, since that is my field of study and my hobby, but that is suppose to be, like any science, objective and without judgment. And I am just genuinely curious, cultures fascinate me.
Well I've never challenged them over their faith because I have no reason to, so I wouldn't know. None of them stone gays (or even have said anything negative about the LGBT community). None of them send money to ISIS and Al-Queda. Most of them are women and, frankly, have more ambition than most non-Muslim women I know (though that likely has more to do with the fact they are immigrants rather than their religion). When ever I told the two of them I was atheist, their response was, "Oh, that's cool. Yeah, I'm not really that heavy into Islam or take it literally, it's just how I was raised and part of my culture." (Aka, the exact same thing most Christians say).
And there is your issue; because they are Muslim, they are therefor fundamentalist and should act like Christian fundamentalists? I admit, I know a small sample size... maybe 10 I talk to with any regularity, but I have yet to meet a Muslim fundamentalist. Most of them are more politically progressive than any average American I know (two of them are fans of Bernie Sanders and more socialist styles of government, and the Egyptian was a technocrat... which is about as far removed from a theocracy fan as you could get.) and far more socially aware as well (again, more to do with being a minority than their religion I would assume). My favourite in terms of appearance is one Muslim man who comes in covered in tattoos, uses vulgarities and wears the little hat.
I live in Texas, South/Central Texas, so I'll let you decide from there :P.
You certainly don't, but it's an extremely self-limiting world view and when you let it influence your opinion on people you have never met and completely misjudge their character because of prejudices... it's no different than a racist saying, "I shouldn't have to apologize for assuming this black guy is from the ghetto and smokes crack.".
So again, how many Muslims do you actually know?
I see that needs qualification, although it really should not! We have not been discussing history, which you invoke - we have been discussing where the two opposing cultures are now at currently. On the whole, which condones more violence, and which feeds more off intolerance? End of discussion!
peacewithoutgod, do you get your thyroid levels check regularly? I am really not saying this to mess up with you or to insult. It's sincere.
QuoteOn the whole, which condones more violence, and which feeds more off intolerance? End of discussion!
Compare which culture has declared more wars, which culture buys more humans through the slave trade, which culture is becoming more and more xenophobic if anyone who does not share a common skin colour with them, which culture overthrows the governments of countries in 5 different continents to serve their own agenda, which countries speak out of one side of their mouth about how terrible poverty is and yet does not a single thing to address it. Compare which culture just had three of the four largest genocides (Russia, Germany, Belgium) in the last hundred years or so. Compare which culture actively sends its companies to other countries just so they can use their children in a sweatshops or farms on a scale unrivaled in human history. Compare which culture decries slavery as a "moral injustice" while using slave labour to pick their oranges or use prisoners to manufacture dirt cheap goods.
Compare which culture has the highest rates of homicide and crime globally; I'll give you a spoiler... you are going to see an assload of countries ahead of the "other" culture.
Get this, "The West's shit don't stink! End of story!" bullshit out of here.
Quote from: widdershins on September 15, 2015, 06:00:47 PM
Islamophobia isn't a real thing, it's a word make up by PC sensitivity Nazis to bash people in the head with if they say anything bad about Islam and especially when they relate Islam to terrorism. I hate Islam. I also hate Christianity. I essentially hate organized religion and find people who believe in magic to be altogether silly. No, not all Muslims are terrorists, but a good share of terrorists are Muslim, therefore relating the two is fair. Yes, there are decent Muslims out there and I can respect them, as people. Their religion, however is batshit crazy and full of people who use it as an excuse to attack anyone not like them. Pretty much Christianity on crazy ass steroids. SOME people don't take it that way, and good for them. But that's on them, not on the religion itself. The Qur'an says I deserve to die because I don't believe the Qur'an. Islam is based on the Qur'an. Therefore Islam is shit, even if some people who follow Islam aren't total dicks about it. Pretty straight forward logic as far as I'm concerned. If someone wants to call me an Islamophobe for that, I don't really have a problem with anything any festizio has to say about me.
Absolutely spot on. The whole thing never gets challenged, though, which is a disgrace.
Quote from: Shiranu on September 19, 2015, 04:01:27 PM
Compare which culture has declared more wars, which culture buys more humans through the slave trade, which culture is becoming more and more xenophobic if anyone who does not share a common skin colour with them, which culture overthrows the governments of countries in 5 different continents to serve their own agenda
Compare which culture has the highest rates of homicide and crime globally; I'll give you a spoiler...
Islam has declared more wars, over 270 million killed since $Profit Mo started spreading the Islam delusion.
Here is a list for ignorant apologists like you-
www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=19435.0
While the enlightened west has outlawed slavery with the Universal declaration of human rights the Islamic countries have their Cairo declaration of human rights where the last 2 articles say Sharia law trumps human rights.
The Islamic slave trade is well documented it continues to this very day with muslims enslaving Yazidi's in Syria, pity apologists like you have nothing to say on slavery in 2015.
Islamic militants have a long history of disposing of governments that do not agree with Islamic idiocy, the Islamic revolution in Iran, the Taliban in Afghanistan,Al Shaabab in Somalia, Boko Haram in Nigeria and of course the Islamic state.
Does the USA even rank in the top 10 for homicide if you don't exclude Islamic countries?
Ali Sina wrote an excellent article on that technically and logically incorrect term called Islamophobia that is used by Islamic apologists like you, can you refute anything Ali wrote in this article?
www.faithfreedom.org/oped/sina60526.htm
The resident christianophobes are whinging about Islamophobia, lmao at the idiots.
Quote from: baronvonrort on September 19, 2015, 10:08:08 PM
Islamic militants have a long history of disposing of governments that do not agree with Islamic idiocy
Pot meet kettle.
(http://dc509.4shared.com/img/BL_kYtsg/s7/13eee4459e8/Dis_gon_b_gud.gif)
QuoteIslam has declared more wars, over 270 million killed since $Profit Mo started spreading the Islam delusion.
Here is a list for ignorant apologists like you-
You know, I actually wrote a decent length response of the death toll by "Christianity" in just the last hundred years, and how it made up nearly a quarter of the number Islam killed in the last 1400 (I was going to save you the embarrassment of adding in the Christian lead genocides of the century before that which is in the hundreds of millions... so 200 years, and already nearly equal)...
...but then I checked the source of that 270mil and realised it is fake.
http://littlegreenfootballs.com/article/39361_Fact-Checking_Pamela_Geller-_270_Million_Victims_of_Islam
http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/opinion/2013/01/2013127211920494.html
Get this... Geller use to work for FOX News, and they fired her because
SHE WAS TOO EXTREME.
Yeah, good source there buddy.
QuoteWhile the enlightened west has outlawed slavery with the Universal declaration of human rights the Islamic countries have their Cairo declaration of human rights where the last 2 articles say Sharia law trumps human rights.
And yet "the enlightened west" still uses slavery everyday, both here and overseas. We hire dirt cheap Mexicans to work our fields, and if they complain we report them to the feds and deport them. We use prisoners as production workers for pennies. We send our work overseas where men, women and children alike work in sweat shops for pennies. We have a huge sex trade and human trafficking issue here in the States and in much of Europe as well that no one will address.
We only hold the moral high ground in that, if we keep our slaves on the other side of the world, then it doesn't feel so much like slavery. It's not me who has a slave, it's the company I buy my pants from, who built my computer.
QuoteThe Islamic slave trade is well documented it continues to this very day with muslims enslaving Yazidi's in Syria, pity apologists like you have nothing to say on slavery in 2015.
Funny, if you go back through my posts you will see I have been consistent on my thoughts of the Western sweat shop/slave system... both in 2015 and before. And you will also see my condemnation of the Middle Eastern slave trade in places like Arabia and the UAE. If you are going to throw such allegations, please don't be so blatantly wrong.
QuoteIslamic militants have a long history of disposing of governments that do not agree with Islamic idiocy, the Islamic revolution in Iran, the Taliban in Afghanistan,Al Shaabab in Somalia, Boko Haram in Nigeria and of course the Islamic state.
(http://ak-hdl.buzzfed.com/static/2015-08/10/10/enhanced/webdr14/anigif_original-grid-image-32591-1439217068-12.gif)
The Islamic revolution in Iran... you mean the one that was backed and sparked by the United States (on behalf of the Brits) to protect the oil interests of British Petroleum (er, sorry... the Anglo-Persian Petrol Company)? The Islamic revolution backed by the West that overthrew a democratic and secular government that leaned too far to socialism in a time where that was not the in vogue thing to do?
And when you mention the Taliban (and the mujhadeen in general)... you mean the same organizations trained and supplied by the United States as a way to combat the Russian troops that were moving into the region? The same terrorist groups that, again, overthrew a relatively moderate state?
So... thats two "Western Interventions" you blame on Islam, nice work there...
QuoteAl Shaabab in Somalia, Boko Haram in Nigeria and of course the Islamic state.
The Lord's Liberation Army, Anti-Malaka and of course the witch-hunters of Africa who are slaughtering Muslims and atheists at a staggering rate.
QuoteDoes the USA even rank in the top 10 for homicide if you don't exclude Islamic countries?
Do you want me to do your homework for you?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentional_homicide_rate
First 32 countries... all extremely Christian, nearly all Latin American (a few African). Oops. Then you have Myrammar, where Muslims are facing genocide. Oops. Then you have to go all the way down to 48 to find Sudan... and from 49 down to 111 (where you will find the United States), there are a grand total of about 10 Muslim states... and those are places like Pakistan, Palestine and Sudan.
So of the top 111... a grand total of 10 or 11 of them are Muslim, 90 something are Christian and the rest are animistic for the most part of Buddhist. And the Christian one's are predominately the REALLY Christian ones... Mexico, Venezuela, Brasil, etc. etc.
So, tell me more about how violent Islam is comparatively. I will wait with (not really) bated breath.
QuoteAli Sina wrote an excellent article on that technically and logically incorrect term called Islamophobia that is used by Islamic apologists like you, can you refute anything Ali wrote in this article?
First off, when was the last time you heard me use the term "Islamophobia" over the word bigot, which is what an "Islamophobe" really is. The main reason I think people use that word is to try and be at least a tad bit polite and, more importantly, not have the bigot go on a rampage about how dare you call a spade a spade. That shit gets old, yo.
But I'll address a few points because I am bored...
QuoteOnly Muslims are capable of this much irrationality and arrogance.
Haha.
No.
QuoteDespite that Buddhism has its critics and we never call then Buddhistphobes.
That is because those people don't generalise that all Buddhist, because of a fraction of a fraction of the population are genocidal or dictators/serf owners (see; Tibet and Myrammar), must therefor be terrorists. We just call those people nuts because it's a very uncommon view point.
Okay, got more bored reading that. Never mind.
Quote from: Shiranu on September 20, 2015, 12:09:23 AM
And yet "the enlightened west" still uses slavery everyday, both here and overseas. We hire dirt cheap Mexicans to work our fields, and if they complain we report them to the feds and deport them. We use prisoners as production workers for pennies. We send our work overseas where men, women and children alike work in sweat shops for pennies
The Islamic revolution in Iran... you mean the one that was backed and sparked by the United States
So... thats two "Western Interventions" you blame on Islam
Then you have Myrammar, where Muslims are facing genocide. Oops.
That is because those people don't generalise that all Buddhist, because of a fraction of a fraction of the population are genocidal or dictators/serf owners (see; Tibet and Myrammar)
Yes somehow hiring people to work is comparable to beheading all the men in their family and enslaving the women and children according to leftist dim wits in the USA, nothing to worry about with Islam allowing real slavery hiring a Mexican to clean your toilet is just as bad according to apologists from the USA.
The Islamic revolution happened in 1979, when was Mossadegh deposed?, at least the Iranians still have death to America rallies which didn't happen before the Islamic revolution but have happened every year since.
Did the USA ask the Shah to crush those commie kurds who created the republic of Mahabad?
There are 3 sides to every story, we see you have taken the Islamic side with Myanmar which like Palestine/Bosnia claims muslims are the victims of the evil kuffar and muslims never do anything wrong.
There is a long list of Buddhist persecution by muslims before they responded to being provoked, muslims have an ingrained victim mentality which helps with propaganda to fool useful idiots like you.
www.themuslimissue.wordpress.com/2013/05/02/the-innocent-and-persecuted-rohingya-muslims-in-burma-a-history-of-rape-genocide-and-grisly-murders-of-Buddhists-by-illegal-bangladeshi-muslims/
Muslims are allowed to tell lies is there anything in the Buddhist texts that allows Buddhists to tell lies, I think the Buddhist version will be closer to the truth in Myanmar.
$Profit Mo said-
He who makes peace between the people by inventing good information is not a liar
www.sunnah.com/bukhari/53/3
The leftist dim witted apologists trust A religion that allows them to tell lies to non believers.
Islam was in decline before oil money revived it, the Saudis helped create the current refugee problem, they don't take refugees in Saudi Arabia, the Saudis did offer to build 300 mosques in Germany for their new arrivals.
Islam has oil money helping propoagte this delusion.
Nice pics of Dubai in 1990 compared to today-
www.businessinsider.com/dubai-in-1990-is-totally-unrecognizable-2013-12
Damn right Im a bigot, I hate islam, jewish, zoawhateas, and christianity theyre all the fuking same and come from the same goddamn place:the middle east. But to say I hate all religion equally is bullshit, because a few are more evil: Islam and Christianity both need to die so we can take just bomb the motherfuk of middle east, and the vatican, and the goddamn south/bible belt, or instant kill anyone that spread the disease of babylonian bullshit right now.
Quote from: widdershins on September 15, 2015, 06:00:47 PM
Islamophobia isn't a real thing, it's a word make up by PC sensitivity Nazis to bash people in the head with if they say anything bad about Islam and especially when they relate Islam to terrorism. I hate Islam. I also hate Christianity. I essentially hate organized religion and find people who believe in magic to be altogether silly. No, not all Muslims are terrorists, but a good share of terrorists are Muslim, therefore relating the two is fair. Yes, there are decent Muslims out there and I can respect them, as people. Their religion, however is batshit crazy and full of people who use it as an excuse to attack anyone not like them. Pretty much Christianity on crazy ass steroids. SOME people don't take it that way, and good for them. But that's on them, not on the religion itself. The Qur'an says I deserve to die because I don't believe the Qur'an. Islam is based on the Qur'an. Therefore Islam is shit, even if some people who follow Islam aren't total dicks about it. Pretty straight forward logic as far as I'm concerned. If someone wants to call me an Islamophobe for that, I don't really have a problem with anything any festizio has to say about me.
American idiot dedected.
And they have the every right to hate you and your culture back AND create every social and media, political weapon to fight against it. Like anti-semitism, anti-Americanism. They learned from the best. It's progress. Stop whining. It's not going anywhere, it will just get bigger. Take it up with your politcians who use it at every time its benefical for themselves.
Western politicans use the term 'Islamophıbia' more than anyone when it pays back.
The problem is NOT just raleting terrorism with Islam, but refuse to accept to
-call a terrorist a terrorist when they are white christians and domestic terrorism commited after 9/11 straight
-accept the policies of USA and its allies in creating that threat
-benefit USA -and its allies- gets from that threat
-profit USA-and its allies- gets from it
-that they made an industry out of human suffering by creating it, fueling and refueling it for more profit
-that they created a culture which normalises attacking and invading foreign countries and committing mass annihilation as 'a job' for its own citizens and teach their children that this is 'defending democracy' and why their nation is the greatest one.
If Americans should decide to sue their governments of decades to come, in an ideal world and justice system, American people would win countless cases from systematic stupidization of their people and isolation of their culture to send their sons to unjustified, bullshit made up wars to kill them in masses. But it worked so good with wild capitalism, most of them are happy with that identity, enjoy that delusion and screaming about freedom.
Why would you highlight "I hate Islam. I hate Chrisanity." and then say he's an american Idiot for saying both religion are fucked up?
Unless you support Islam....
QuoteYes somehow hiring people to work is comparable to beheading all the men in their family and enslaving the women and children according to leftist dim wits in the USA, nothing to worry about with Islam allowing real slavery hiring a Mexican to clean your toilet is just as bad according to apologists from the USA.
http://www.scmp.com/news/world/article/1333894/29-million-trapped-modern-day-slavery-china-30-million-worldwide
http://www.theguardian.com/global-development/poverty-matters/2011/apr/28/sweatshops-supplying-high-street-brands
This is the system the "morally superiour Western culture" continues to uphold for the sake of cheaper pants. Just because we keep our slaves overseas doesn't mean they don't exist. And nice racism against Mexicans there, asshole; Latino immigrants work in far worse conditions than, "Oh, they get to scrub some rich guys toilet!"... we use them for construction, field labour and other higher risk jobs because they don't have to have insurance and they dont have to have rights.
QuoteThe Islamic revolution happened in 1979, when was Mossadegh deposed?, at least the Iranians still have death to America rallies which didn't happen before the Islamic revolution but have happened every year since.
Did the USA ask the Shah to crush those commie kurds who created the republic of Mahabad?
The Islamic Revolution didn't just happen one day when the Ayatollah said, "Oh, I want power now.". It goes back a generation or two before and, frankly, to try to say the situation in Iran can be blamed on any one party (Islam) rather than being a conglomeration of various factors is extremely historically ignorant.
The anti-American/Anti-West sentiment brewed in Iran for years before the revolution; Mohammed Reza Shah was installed by force by the British and Soviets after his father was banished (this did not make the West look good). Then when the people were sick of the Shah and removed him from power and democratically elected Mossadegh, the CIA came in and overthrew their government again.
Tell me, how would you feel if a foreign power overthrew your government by military force? Then when you got rid of the person they put in power... they reinstalled him by military force again and supported him with weapons and turned a blind eye to him torturing civilians? Would you throw a, "We Love The Foreign Power! Long Live To Them!!!" march? Just curious.
QuoteThere are 3 sides to every story, we see you have taken the Islamic side with Myanmar which like Palestine/Bosnia claims muslims are the victims of the evil kuffar and muslims never do anything wrong.
Oh look, more deflections from the point that, of the 111 top homicide countries, only 10 or 11 of them were Islamic (and they were the worst of the worst countries).
Just like you deflected from the fact that your number of people killed in Islamic wars was a completely bullshit number pulled out of an ultra-right wing asshole. Or just pretended that I didn't at all mention, and never have mentioned, the slavery in the Middle East as being a problem as well. Surprise surprise.
QuoteThe leftist dim witted apologists trust A religion that allows them to tell lies to non believers.
You are such a partisan hack, it is pathetic. Maybe if you could shut your damn mouth for 10 seconds about, "Oh mah gawdddd, the leffftiestsses!!!" you wouldn't make yourself look like such a fucking moron every time you inevitably regurgitate the blatant lies and inflammatory bullshit discredited hacks have spoon-fed you.
Quote from: Draconic Aiur on September 20, 2015, 04:37:01 AM
Damn right Im a bigot, I hate islam, jewish, zoawhateas, and christianity theyre all the fuking same and come from the same goddamn place:the middle east. But to say I hate all religion equally is bullshit, because a few are more evil: Islam and Christianity both need to die so we can take just bomb the motherfuk of middle east, and the vatican, and the goddamn south/bible belt, or instant kill anyone that spread the disease of babylonian bullshit right now.
For me, the greatest relief would be the death of the fictional mentality of religion, not the death of the people, just the irrational idea and ideals of it. But sadly, like cancer, religion can become so intertwined in peoples minds there is no cure for it.
I think whoever uses the term "Islamophobia" as a way to deflect criticism is someone who is probably unfamiliar with the religion.
The Koran contains a slew of verses that, on their own, would be considered blatant hate speech if they were published independently.
Yet somehow, perhaps under this misguided premise of religious tolerance, people seem to overlook if not completely ignore something they ought to acknowledge if they truly are liberal minded, and that is Islam is rife with the kind of intolerances they'd never abide under any other circumstances.
Obviously Islam is not a race, but you can call some one critical of Islam a racist and completely shut down the conversation. I dont think you are aware of the kind of behavior you are unwittingly endorsing by doing something like that.
Muslims victimize fellow Muslims more then anyone else. We need to make more of an effort to understand what life is like for a Muslim homosexual, woman or apostate, rather then denying and taking offense to the allegation that these people are in fact going through what they are going through!
twenty years ago I wrote, like many others, that Islam was merely an early version of xianity and if all else were equal in 700 years they would be as liberal as todays xians. But this is far from the case. With xianity, education drove reform, but muslims seem to have a distinct aversion to knowledge to the point where education is not just banned,,not just shunned, but forbidden. It is forbidden for the very reason that it promotes reason and logic which Islam fears above all. IT is an especially desperate religion, and that make it especially dangerous.
Quote from: Munch on September 20, 2015, 06:14:11 PM
For me, the greatest relief would be the death of the fictional mentality of religion, not the death of the people, just the irrational idea and ideals of it. But sadly, like cancer, religion can become so intertwined in peoples minds there is no cure for it.
Yeah I'm sorry I posted that but Sometimes I'm like BURN! NUKE! ERADICATE THE IGNORANT UNCHANGABLES!
Quote from: aitm on September 20, 2015, 08:54:28 PM
twenty years ago I wrote, like many others, that Islam was merely an early version of xianity and if all else were equal in 700 years they would be as liberal as todays xians. But this is far from the case. With xianity, education drove reform, but muslims seem to have a distinct aversion to knowledge to the point where education is not just banned,,not just shunned, but forbidden. It is forbidden for the very reason that it promotes reason and logic which Islam fears above all. IT is an especially desperate religion, and that make it especially dangerous.
http://www.forbes.com/sites/quora/2013/01/08/why-have-the-islamic-countries-failed-to-develop-even-with-resources-like-oil-while-countries-with-no-resources-like-switzerland-have-flourished/
An interesting article for those who want to view the world in a non-black-and-white light.
As for Muslims outside of the Middle East...
http://iraq.usembassy.gov/resources/information/current/american/statistical.html
...if Islam is anti-education, why are Muslim students in the states mirroring the trend of American students?
To view the socio-eco-political climate of the Middle East as purely, or even majority, the fault of Islam is to show an overwhelming ignorance to the historical and cultural background of these countries. Just the fact that you and baron and the like can say, "Islam is against education" shows you have no concept of what Islam even is, because Islam is an extremely diverse religion (like all others) heavily influenced by cultural practices and political pasts of whatever country is in question.
Quote from: Shiranu on September 20, 2015, 09:26:32 PM
http://www.forbes.com/sites/quora/2013/01/08/why-have-the-islamic-countries-failed-to-develop-even-with-resources-like-oil-while-countries-with-no-resources-like-switzerland-have-flourished/
An interesting article for those who want to view the world in a non-black-and-white light.
As for Muslims outside of the Middle East...
http://iraq.usembassy.gov/resources/information/current/american/statistical.html
...if Islam is anti-education, why are Muslim students in the states mirroring the trend of American students?
To view the socio-eco-political climate of the Middle East as purely, or even majority, the fault of Islam is to show an overwhelming ignorance to the historical and cultural background of these countries. Just the fact that you and baron and the like can say, "Islam is against education" shows you have no concept of what Islam even is, because Islam is an extremely diverse religion (like all others) heavily influenced by cultural practices and political pasts of whatever country is in question.
Also if Islam were anti-education then how in the hell did the Islamic Renaissance (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_Golden_Age) happen? They were once far ahead of the West.
Quote from: CrucifyCindy on September 20, 2015, 10:19:20 PM
Also if Islam were anti-education then how in the hell did the Islamic Renaissance (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_Golden_Age) happen?
When I look at your link that no university would accept I see the idiocy of the suckhole apologists giving credit to Islam for what was really the golden age of atheism.
Your link says Ibn Sina was a muslim, Al Ghazali declared Ibn Sina was an atheist, the dim witted dopey apologists claim Ibn Sina was muslim because of some BS on wiki.
Fatwa saying Ibn Sina was atheist-
www.islamweb.net/emainpage/index.php?page=showfatwa&Option=FatwaId&Id=87783
The shia even say Ibn Sina was atheist, will that stop apologists from giving credit to Islam for an atheist achievement in an atheist forum?
www.shiachat.com/forum/topic/63458-is-ibn-sina-considered-a-muslim
I have had muslims concede Muhammad al Razi was atheist because he said the quran is full of contradictions which is something a muslim would never say.
www.quran.com/4/82
A Pakistani atheist on Al Razi-
www.pakistaniatheist.blogspot.com.au/2010/06/freethinkers-in-history-muhammad-ibn.html
When you go through the list there is only Al Haythem who wrote his book of optics while feigning madness while under house arrest because he feared the caliph would kill him.
Being considered of sound mind is vital to execute someone for apostasy.
We should call that period the golden age of atheism.
Quote from: Shiranu on September 20, 2015, 05:29:06 PM
This is the system the "morally superiour Western culture" continues to uphold for the sake of cheaper pants. Just because we keep our slaves overseas doesn't mean they don't exist. And nice racism against Mexicans there, asshole; Latino immigrants work in far worse conditions than, "Oh, they get to scrub some rich guys toilet!"... we use them for construction, field labour and other higher risk jobs because they don't have to have insurance and they dont have to have rights.
The Islamic Revolution didn't just happen one day when the Ayatollah said, "Oh, I want power now.". It goes back a generation or two before and, frankly, to try to say the situation in Iran can be blamed on any one party (Islam) rather than being a conglomeration of various factors is extremely historically ignorant.
Oh look, more deflections from the point that, of the 111 top homicide countries, only 10 or 11 of them were Islamic (and they were the worst of the worst countries).
Just like you deflected from the fact that your number of people killed in Islamic wars was a completely bullshit number pulled out of an ultra-right wing asshole. Or just pretended that I didn't at all mention, and never have mentioned, the slavery in the Middle East as being a problem as well. Surprise surprise.
You are such a partisan hack, it is pathetic. Maybe if you could shut your damn mouth for 10 seconds about, "Oh mah gawdddd, the leffftiestsses!!!" you wouldn't make yourself look like such a fucking moron every time you inevitably regurgitate the blatant lies and inflammatory bullshit discredited hacks have spoon-fed you.
You are showing your idiocy by comparing hired workers to slaves, under Islamic law a muslim male can have sex with his slave and his wives have no right to object to him having sex with his slaves.
Khomeni was exiled from Iran, the USA had no idea the Islamic revolution was going down, of course leftist dim wits from the USA think they had something to do with it because of something that happened nearly 45 years before.
using your dopey logic we can say the USA is responsible for al shaabab in Somalia it had nothing to do with Islam.
So where does the USA rank for homicides compared to where you thought they are ranked?
The number of people killed in Islamic wars is not bullshit despite what apologists like you claim, the first Islamic massacre of jews from the banu qurayza has Islamic sources saying between 600-900 men and one woman were beheaded.
As you can see with Islamic estimates it is between 600-900 for the first one they didn't have accurate bodycounts.
We know the number of people killed by muslims is not zero yet that is how much attention Islamic apologists like you have towards what it could be
Quote from: baronvonrort on September 20, 2015, 11:46:11 PM
We should call that period the golden age of atheism.
Oh wow the golden age of atheism was started by cultural Muslims (most of them being Arabs) living in a Islamic milieu were they were dominant in guiding the culture. Oh the irony of it all. You know what I think if the West didn't interfere with this Arabic golden age...atheism would probably been predominant by now...oh the irony.
Quote from: CrucifyCindy on September 21, 2015, 12:15:39 AM
Oh wow the golden age of atheism was started by cultural Muslims (most of them being Arabs) living in a Islamic milieu were they were dominant in guiding the culture. Oh the irony of it all. You know what I think if the West didn't interfere with this Arabic golden age...atheism would probably been predominant by now...oh the irony.
Al Razi sounds like he concealed his atheism if you read what he wrote.
Islam has the death penalty for atheists so unlikey for atheists to dominate when they are hung and have their heads chopped off.
In 13 countries around the world,all of them muslim,people who openly espouse atheism or reject the official state religion of Islam face execution under the law.
www.reuters.com/article/2013/12/10/us-religion-atheists-idUSBRE9B900G20131210
With the Islamic state it becomes 14 countries where Islam has the death penalty for atheists, the ignorant apologists in this forum stick up for a belief that has the death penalty for atheists.
Not much intelligent life in this forum, I prefer to type to muslims instead of ignorant apologists that infect this forum
Quote from: baronvonrort on September 21, 2015, 12:56:08 AM
Not much intelligent life in this forum, I prefer to type to muslims instead of ignorant apologists that infect this forum
Then:
(http://raisedonhoecakes.com/ROH/wp-content/uploads/2012/12/Door-Ass-ROH.jpg)
QuoteWhen I look at your link that no university would accept I see the idiocy of the suckhole apologists giving credit to Islam for what was really the golden age of atheism.
Comic gold. Look up the definition of hypocrisy, then come back and laugh with me :).
QuoteSo where does the USA rank for homicides compared to where you thought they are ranked?
That has to do with the fact there are 10 Muslim countries in the top 111 countries for homicide... how again?
QuoteKhomeni was exiled from Iran, the USA had no idea the Islamic revolution was going down, of course leftist dim wits from the USA think they had something to do with it because of something that happened nearly 45 years before.
Yes, history can never be influenced by something that happened less than 50 years ago. And the Shah, the Western backed Shah, who was overthrown by Khomeini (who latched onto the late Ali Shariati's revolutionary movement) had nothing to do with the West... the
WESTERN BACKED SHAH BEING OVERTHROWN, THE IRANIAN HOSTAGE SITUATION, AND THE PROTESTS AGAINST WESTERN COLONIALISM, HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH THE WEST.
Holy fuck but you are a special type of stupid, aren't you?
QuoteThe number of people killed in Islamic wars is not bullshit despite what apologists like you claim, the first Islamic massacre of jews from the banu qurayza has Islamic sources saying between 600-900 men and one woman were beheaded.
As you can see with Islamic estimates it is between 600-900 for the first one they didn't have accurate bodycounts.
Yeah, except the source is still completely discredited and cited no work, rather she just pulled the numbers out of her ass.
Tell me, why are you a bigot, anti-intellectualism apologist? Why do you rightist dummy-heads insist on apologizing for an ideology of anti-intelligence, anti-rationality, anti-humanity?
(http://rs748.pbsrc.com/albums/xx124/ohkimosabe/qn394xjpg.gif~c200)
Quote...if Islam is anti-education, why are Muslim students in the states mirroring the trend of American students?
Its probably a matter of cirriculum, demand, and not so much origin.
In a number of Muslim countries the emphasis is not so much math and science as it is pointless religious discourse.
Quote from: Cocoa Beware on September 21, 2015, 08:00:03 PM
Its probably a matter of cirriculum, demand, and not so much origin.
In a number of Muslim countries the emphasis is not so much math and science as it is pointless religious discourse.
Agreed.
I think that there is much more Islamophilia around than Islamophobia.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tT8sJiyOC2Q
Quote from: aitm on September 20, 2015, 08:54:28 PM
twenty years ago I wrote, like many others, that Islam was merely an early version of xianity and if all else were equal in 700 years they would be as liberal as todays xians. But this is far from the case. With xianity, education drove reform, but muslims seem to have a distinct aversion to knowledge to the point where education is not just banned,,not just shunned, but forbidden. It is forbidden for the very reason that it promotes reason and logic which Islam fears above all. IT is an especially desperate religion, and that make it especially dangerous.
Let me get this straight, you mean that 20 years ago, in
1995 you had a reason to put your mind in to know about the religion called Islam, Islamic countries; various Islamic cultures and their place in the world?
And not just that but you also made a fair observation and came to a conclusion about an alienated foreign culture, BEFORE it has ever become a main political/cultural issue in a society isolated from the world; from any world issue, unless cannot be transformed into money or power?
And not just you, but 'many others'? :lol: Who are those people?
Sorry aitm, we have been posting to each other several years now and I am reading your posts, and also I have been around more than 20 years talking about Islam with Europeans AND Americans in person and online. I am going to call this a hyped up bullshit on your side; evaluating Islam as a seperate religious culture same with Christianity in core.
It's safe to say that almost all of the Amercians have learned anything about Islamic cultures after 9/11. And while the American politics were in heat with 'KILL ALL OF THEM' the next half a decade after 9/11, an irriversable process of demonisation had already begun about these people and their culture(s) on an already built Oreintalism of humilitaing the said culture in every medium.
It's officially an invented evil for profit and benefit. Because the old ones has run their course. There was a need of new bullshit to feed people to gain support for policies. Islam and Orientalism have already been the same long before, Americans found out only 12 % of muslims are Arabs or people who live in Iran are not Arabs and my all time favourite that 'muslims do not speak the same language' just about 'now'. And still a minority of them.
Sounds absurd doesn't it? A very short time ago that was the picture, it still is more or less.
Quote from: peacewithoutgod on September 17, 2015, 07:27:39 PM
Since you admit you are fucking with anybody, then you should not expect any respect for your ideas in return.
Fucking with someone, is the highest form of respect ... at least among true lovers. Maybe CrucifyCindy is just a one-night cruiser, but I don't think so.
Quote from: CrucifyCindy on September 21, 2015, 12:15:39 AM
Oh wow the golden age of atheism was started by cultural Muslims (most of them being Arabs) living in a Islamic milieu were they were dominant in guiding the culture. Oh the irony of it all. You know what I think if the West didn't interfere with this Arabic golden age...atheism would probably been predominant by now...oh the irony.
Back then, and now, anyone who wasn't an IS equivalent in their day ... and still Muslim, was an atheist. Salafists have been around for a very long time. But that word, like many, is thrown about like dirt. Some of the so called atheist Muslims of 1000 years ago, were among the most intelligent people of their day. Galileo was an atheist too, because he didn't agree with ignorant Popes ... but he put his unmarried daughters into a convent ... because in fact, he was a good Catholic just looking out for their best interests in a day when women were very unfree. Kabbalist Jews were accused of atheism also, as were Protestants.
PS - I am not an apologist for anything, including Islam. But just because I am not a genocidal maniac hiding under a rug ... doesn't mean that I support what other people think or do. I always support people if at all possible, though this is often self contradictory. I support some of what they think or do. But I simply am not afraid of boogeymen, I have no desire to kill anyone, and I am able to focus on more than one idea, at least sequentially. And a notice to the ignorant ... Muslims already have the Bomb ... in Pakistan. So far they haven't used one on an enemy ... though I am sure they have been severely threatened of the consequences of such, by India and the US.
Two answer a much previous post ... the West has high judicial ideals. Too bad they don't practice them. Islam also looks superior, based on ideals that are left unpracticed (such as there aren't supposed to be any ... any ... poor Muslims. The "tax" is supposed to take care of that. And yes, dhimmis pay more tax, but it was for a legitimate reason, more legitimate as to why many Western folks don't pay as much tax as their fellow citizens.
I've been reading "Christianity is Not Great" and it's plain as can be that Christianity was once every bit as violent, destructive and hateful as the idiot Jihad-mongerers of our own age. Christianity in the West eventually had it's wings clipped and lost much of it's capacity to oppress it's own followers but too many of the proponents of Islam are following a creed that has yet to emerge from it's own Dark Ages. It's the younger of the two religions and things will change eventually, I think. This is the 21st century. Caliphates, theocracies and assorted mumbo jumbo bullshit can have no permanent place here.
If progress is real ... you are right. I just don't think the Christians have progressed as much as you think they have. Once they think their mojo is being stolen, then the claws will come out!
Remote critic who thinks she's above it all "dedected".
Quote from: drunkenshoe on September 20, 2015, 05:31:15 AM
American idiot dedected.
And they have the every right to hate you and your culture back AND create every social and media, political weapon to fight against it. Like anti-semitism, anti-Americanism. They learned from the best. It's progress. Stop whining. It's not going anywhere, it will just get bigger. Take it up with your politcians who use it at every time its benefical for themselves.
Western politicans use the term 'Islamophıbia' more than anyone when it pays back.
The problem is NOT just raleting terrorism with Islam, but refuse to accept to
-call a terrorist a terrorist when they are white christians and domestic terrorism commited after 9/11 straight
-accept the policies of USA and its allies in creating that threat
-benefit USA -and its allies- gets from that threat
-profit USA-and its allies- gets from it
-that they made an industry out of human suffering by creating it, fueling and refueling it for more profit
-that they created a culture which normalises attacking and invading foreign countries and committing mass annihilation as 'a job' for its own citizens and teach their children that this is 'defending democracy' and why their nation is the greatest one.
If Americans should decide to sue their governments of decades to come, in an ideal world and justice system, American people would win countless cases from systematic stupidization of their people and isolation of their culture to send their sons to unjustified, bullshit made up wars to kill them in masses. But it worked so good with wild capitalism, most of them are happy with that identity, enjoy that delusion and screaming about freedom.
Quote from: aitm on September 20, 2015, 08:54:28 PM
twenty years ago I wrote, like many others, that Islam was merely an early version of xianity and if all else were equal in 700 years they would be as liberal as todays xians. But this is far from the case. With xianity, education drove reform, but muslims seem to have a distinct aversion to knowledge to the point where education is not just banned,,not just shunned, but forbidden. It is forbidden for the very reason that it promotes reason and logic which Islam fears above all. IT is an especially desperate religion, and that make it especially dangerous.
Western society became secular in spite of Christianity, and it is always a constant battle as the Christian Right is always trying to pull us back to the Inquisition Age. Having said that, considering present day, Islam has by far surpass the cruelties of yesteryears Christianity. They have modern weapons, by comparison, the early Christians had sling shots.
Quote from: josephpalazzo on October 22, 2015, 02:19:20 PM
Western society became secular in spite of Christianity, and it is always a constant battle as the Christian Right is always trying to pull us back to the Inquisition Age. Having said that, considering present day, Islam has by far surpass the cruelties of yesteryears Christianity. They have modern weapons, by comparison, the early Christians had sling shots.
There is a theory that the emergency of Christianity as a mass religion and the semi theocracies that followed as a result led to the Dark Ages and held back modernity and enlightenment back for 1,000 years. A lot of stuff had to be re-learnt. If this is even one quarter right, it is a warning from history that everyone should heed, whether or not this necessitates an intellectual assault on the absurdities and stupidities of the three main monotheist religions. Like it or not, the most pressing and urgent of these challenges relates to Islam.
1liesalot - That was Edward Gibbon's theory (he who wrote the long tome on the Decline & Fall of the Roman Empire). He felt that GB in particular was hindered by Christianity (Voltaire would agree) and that an educated paganism, with suitable irony, would be of benefit ... in the sense that at one time pagan Rome was the world leader, and was not saved by Constantine's gambit. But this paganism wasn't like Christian fundamentalism ... it was social convention and not hostile to good government ... the real decisions being made by philosopher kings like Emperor Marcus Aurelius.
Quote from: CrucifyCindy on September 20, 2015, 10:19:20 PM
Also if Islam were anti-education then how in the hell did the Islamic Renaissance (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_Golden_Age) happen? They were once far ahead of the West.
Once is a very long time ago. Much as those like the Xtians deny this fact, no religion is static, which is very true of Islam as well. When it changed, it discouraged science and engineering. The West surged ahead of Islamic cultures, they stewed in their hatred of us for that, and it will never recover while any of us or our grandkids are alive. Not without our money, anyway, and handing it to countries which respect none of our values and support the terror of Sharia Law and other barbaric practices is the single dumbest thing that anyone who cares about Western freedom can do.
The main problem I see is a failure distinguish the following concepts:
1) Islam.
2) Islamic fundamentalism.
3) Muslims.
4) Islamic extremists.
If, in your statements, you replace "Islam" with "Judaism" and "Muslim" with "Jew", and the result sounds like something from Mein Kampf, you might just be an Islamophobe.
Also, if you think lots of people who live in a bunch of different countries who have had little/no interaction with each other are nevertheless all involved in some grand conspiracy, you might also be a bigot and an especially dumb one at that.
Quote from: widdershins on September 15, 2015, 06:00:47 PM
Islamophobia isn't a real thing, it's a word make up by PC sensitivity Nazis to bash people in the head with if they say anything bad about Islam and especially when they relate Islam to terrorism. I hate Islam. I also hate Christianity. I essentially hate organized religion and find people who believe in magic to be altogether silly. No, not all Muslims are terrorists, but a good share of terrorists are Muslim, therefore relating the two is fair. Yes, there are decent Muslims out there and I can respect them, as people. Their religion, however is batshit crazy and full of people who use it as an excuse to attack anyone not like them. Pretty much Christianity on crazy ass steroids. SOME people don't take it that way, and good for them. But that's on them, not on the religion itself. The Qur'an says I deserve to die because I don't believe the Qur'an. Islam is based on the Qur'an. Therefore Islam is shit, even if some people who follow Islam aren't total dicks about it. Pretty straight forward logic as far as I'm concerned. If someone wants to call me an Islamophobe for that, I don't really have a problem with anything any festizio has to say about me.
Spot on.