Some levity from anti-feminists

[La Dolce Vita]

I often say that the reason I'm not a feminist is because I believe in equality.

Well, then you are not operating within the way your language is defined. You are stating, by definition, that you are not for equality because you believe in equality. A very weird statement. I do understand that there's a lot of propaganda twisting what a feminist is, just as there's a lot of propaganda twisting what an atheist is though. Too bad you fell for the former.

[PJS]

Pinker stated: "Modern, leftist feminism seems to brush over this fact, conflating â€" to use an image from economics â€" equality of outcome with equality of opportunity. The latter is morally necessary. The former is scientifically preposterous."

He is stating, quite plainly, that equality of outcome between the genders is scientifically preposterous. But sure, if there genuinely are people claiming that men and women (on average) are biologically identical - that obviously needs to be dismissed. I'm just not aware of any kind of huge push here.

If you actually read more than plucked out quotes, you would know he means equality of outcome over each and every area-over a broad range of outcomes. The Blank Slate was published at least ten years ago and he cites numerous radical feminists who, at least at that time, were arguing that any differences between men and women were entirely or almost entirely, social constructions.  Most of the refutation of such feminists was in the goal of hitching legitimate, ethical feminist aims to the wagon of science. To the extent that is not done, feminism loses legitimacy. When descriptions of human nature are marinating in ideology and ignore inconvenient findings, support for any recommendations that flow from such descriptions is doomed in the long run.

Hopefully, things have changed in the last ten years because equity feminism will do well if decoupled from the more radical, empirical claims that trivialize biology.

[Berati]

Also, gender equality/feminism is not just good for women, it's good for men too. In a patriarchy men's opportunities and the social acceptance of many acts/lifestyles will be limited by their gender as well.

I completely agree. This is why I indicated earlier that I can think of no nation that treats women unequally that isn't a pretty shitty place.

As to feminism, I think fewer and fewer women are seeing the definition as clear cut as you do. There is clearly a rejection of the ideology going on based on the polls. The one I pointed to wasn't even in the US.  So I think younger women are not seeing feminism as just meaning equality. They're seeing something else also that is not attracting them and that is the only point I'm trying to make even though I'm not sure what that something is.

In the end, we are on the same team so I'll just leave it at that.

[Draconic Aiur]

Feminism is a movement that pushes for just women's rights.
Masculinism is a movement that pushes for men to be the dominant sex.

I have a penis so feminism goes out the window. I love women so Masculinism goes out the window.

I want equal rights for all so I created a movement called Arthurism(like King Arthur) for everyone to have rights.

[Solitary]

Are we not all human binging's to be treated equally? What has gender, or race for that matter, have to do with it? Solitary

[Mermaid]

Feminism is a movement that pushes for just women's rights equality.

[Draconic Aiur]

http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/us/definition/american_english/feminism

The advocacy of women’s rights on the grounds of political, social, and economic equality to men.

[Poison Tree]

Women's rights? Women's rights!? What about women's lefts? I demand women's lefts!

[La Dolce Vita]

Draconic Aiur, did you miss the equality bit in the very definition you used to make it seem it's not about equality?

"The advocacy of women’s rights on the grounds of political, social, and economic equality to men."

However I do not believe this definition is accurate in regard to all of what feminism is. If so, how could feminism also be championing men's rights, as many feminist organizations and ideologies do in the name of feminism. Many anti-feminists tend to deny this, and when confronted with this reality I have even had replies such as "these rights feminism has given/wants to give men remove their rights to be men". But all the same, they must concede (even if just disappearing). Let me ask you, what would you call an ideology of feminization that includes paternity leave, giving men more social freedom so that they are not pressured to be stoic, masculine breadwinners but can instead take part of the roles previously only/primarily carried out by women, gender points to men if professions dominated by women, etc. I think any moderately informed person would quickly recognize this as feminism. And there you have it. Feminism championing male rights in the name of equality. At the core of feminism is the removal of patriarchy, and this is something all men should champion as well. Patriarchy has hurt men for so long. Why would you not want something that's hurting you removed? Why does having a penis stop you? I'm a feminist. There are legions of male feminists. Your arguments does not really compute for me.

[Solitary]

What in the hell does having a penis, or not, have to do with equality? The American Indians gave women equal rights, but I don't remember any of the women wanting to be Chiefs or going into battle.  Solitary

[Draconic Aiur]

Draconic Aiur, did you miss the equality bit in the very definition you used to make it seem it's not about equality?

"The advocacy of women’s rights on the grounds of political, social, and economic equality to men."

However I do not believe this definition is accurate in regard to all of what feminism is. If so, how could feminism also be championing men's rights, as many feminist organizations and ideologies do in the name of feminism. Many anti-feminists tend to deny this, and when confronted with this reality I have even had replies such as "these rights feminism has given/wants to give men remove their rights to be men". But all the same, they must concede (even if just disappearing). Let me ask you, what would you call an ideology of feminization that includes paternity leave, giving men more social freedom so that they are not pressured to be stoic, masculine breadwinners but can instead take part of the roles previously only/primarily carried out by women, gender points to men if professions dominated by women, etc. I think any moderately informed person would quickly recognize this as feminism. And there you have it. Feminism championing male rights in the name of equality. At the core of feminism is the removal of patriarchy, and this is something all men should champion as well. Patriarchy has hurt men for so long. Why would you not want something that's hurting you removed? Why does having a penis stop you? I'm a feminist. There are legions of male feminists. Your arguments does not really compute for me.

The definition is what it is, there is no changing it. it is based on rights equality ONLY for women. at the time of the movement, yes, there were male feminists who supported women's rights. But that was a hell of along time ago, thing change, people are not so uptight about it and as we go on new problems arise. Not just women being subjugated now, but men, transgenders and gay people are now too. You cant pour everything in and call it feminist that's bullshit right there. We need a new movement for all not for one because just hatin bro. I have a penis and I'm proud to have a penis and I don't want to feel bad for having penis because of what my ancestors penis's have done to my ancestors vaginas and their vagina hood.

[Mermaid]

The definition is what it is, there is no changing it. it is based on rights equality ONLY for women. at the time of the movement, yes, there were male feminists who supported women's rights. But that was a hell of along time ago, thing change, people are not so uptight about it and as we go on new problems arise. Not just women being subjugated now, but men, transgenders and gay people are now too. You cant pour everything in and call it feminist that's bullshit right there. We need a new movement for all not for one because just hatin bro. I have a penis and I'm proud to have a penis and I don't want to feel bad for having penis because of what my ancestors penis's have done to my ancestors vaginas and their vagina hood.

I think this is a really sad and very common interpretation that I do not subscribe to whatsoever. Hey, I love penises! Nothing to hate on anyone for having. I am fully in favor of penises. Yes sir, I sure am.

The principle of feminism is not to hate and threaten men and their position in the world and it makes me nuts when I see people claiming it is, just as it makes me nuts when I see women pushing that sort of agenda.

[Shiranu]

If there is one thing I have come to hate more and more as I have gotten older... is people who completely slaughter what a group stands for by taking it's worse 1% and holding everyone else to that standard... and slut shaming. So this hits two of my biggest peeves at once. Nice.

it is based on rights equality ONLY for women.

Uh... equal with who?

Oh, that's right... men.

So if you want to bring women up to equal footing, and at worse that means giving them equal rights... I'm sorry, what is the problem there again? But alot of feminists, myself included, also see that as both men and women need to have their situation improved and equalized.

You make it sound like feminism is somehow anti-man.

[Mermaid]

I think it's just a matter of perspective.

Groups claim certain behaviors and biases (gender, race, religion, etc), and people not in those particular groups tell them they are wrong and that this is not a problem that exists. This is the foundation of such discord as I see it. A group claiming this is somehow seen as a threat to people not in that group.

[Draconic Aiur]

If there is one thing I have come to hate more and more as I have gotten older... is people who completely slaughter what a group stands for by taking it's worse 1% and holding everyone else to that standard... and slut shaming. So this hits two of my biggest peeves at once. Nice.

Uh... equal with who?

Oh, that's right... men.

So if you want to bring women up to equal footing, and at worse that means giving them equal rights... I'm sorry, what is the problem there again? But alot of feminists, myself included, also see that as both men and women need to have their situation improved and equalized.

You make it sound like feminism is somehow anti-man.

That's because Feminism applies to ONLY women

Jesus! Am I the only one that can see that.
The equality is is more equal than it has ever been with alot of crap on both sides