https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qavNOONOuRw
Feel free to critique the video.
https://www.insidehighered.com/views/2015/07/22/review-naomi-zack-white-privilege-and-black-rights-injustice-us-police-racial
It is very hard for people mired in a mud wrestling context to speak meaningfully about cleanliness.
The idea of White privilege is in a particular political context. Without that context, it can't exist. In that context, we are talking about propaganda and policy rather than some Enlightenment meme that didn't even apply to most people in America at the start, or since then.
No.
The video is full of shit to assume that inmates in prison are as free as say...Prince George to determine their own lives and destiny. Sure George has extreme privilege, but it comes at a steep price. An inmate locked up in a prison in Guatemala hardly has the same chance of even living another day much less determine his destiny.
Every human being is trapped in a cage of nature's making, society's making, and their own making. Some cages are better than others, but a cage is a cage. I have never wanted great wealth, power or fame just for this reason (not that there is any danger in that). I don't think a gilded cage would be much fun, on the contrary it would be a kind of irony.
Privilege is only about pointing out facticity
Privilege is only important to people who think they are privileged.
Quote from: Green Bottle on July 23, 2015, 11:43:20 AM
Privilege is only important to people who think they are privileged.
Or jealous/angry/envious of those whom they think have MORE privilege.
Sal1981 ... which one?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Facticity
The opposite is "falsity" ... which I think more accurately characterizes things. Either "legend in your own mind" or "legend in someone else's mind".
Quote from: Baruch on July 23, 2015, 06:55:42 PM
Sal1981 ... which one?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Facticity
The opposite is "falsity" ... which I think more accurately characterizes things. Either "legend in your own mind" or "legend in someone else's mind".
Foremost the cards one is dealt in life. Secondly, the provisional control one has on their environment.
Quote from: Green Bottle on July 23, 2015, 11:43:20 AM
Privilege is only important to people who think they are privileged.
Said the white man living in the UK. :lol:
im white have no privilege here in south texas
Draconic Aiur ... you can always fix that by marrying a Mexican (aka someone of Native American ancestry from MesoAmerica) ;-)
Quote from: Green Bottle on July 23, 2015, 11:43:20 AM
Privilege is only important to people who think they are privileged.
Well, I....
what?
Quote from: Draconic Aiur on July 24, 2015, 04:54:13 AM
im white have no privilege here in south texas
People quite often fail to see their privilege. That's kind of the point.
I specifically meant people who think the world owe's them, and who look down on others, like royalty..
Quote from: Mermaid on July 24, 2015, 08:09:06 AM
People quite often fail to see their privilege. That's kind of the point.
Quote from: Green Bottle on July 24, 2015, 08:52:53 AM
I specifically meant people who think the world owe's them, and who look down on others, like royalty..
It's a huge chart, Green. They are just a part of it. That^looks different because it is 'institutionalised'. It's official. The root is the same.
Green Bottle ... thanks to the "special relationship" ...
Americans have gone from being "temporarily embarrassed millionaires" to being "temporarily embarrassed royalty" ... at least in some political dynasties ;-( In GB, you have actual "entitled" people. In the US political argot ... "entitlement" is a nasty word ... usually applied to poor people who get assistance from the government ... but not applied to plutocrats who get extra breaks they don't need, or corporations who are despoiling the nation.
Quote from: Mermaid on July 24, 2015, 08:09:06 AM
People quite often fail to see their privilege. That's kind of the point.
So it's just a matter of opinion?
A bi-directional opinion ... an asshole thinks he is privileged, and the losers around him agree that he is, and are jealous of his delusion. Without followers, the leaders would all be in padded rooms, rather than flying in Air Force One and starting wars.
Quote from: Baruch on July 24, 2015, 06:38:06 PM
A bi-directional opinion ... an asshole thinks he is privileged, and the losers around him agree that he is, and are jealous of his delusion. Without followers, the leaders would all be in padded rooms, rather than flying in Air Force One and starting wars.
(http://puu.sh/jbI9V.jpg)
Quote from: Baruch on July 24, 2015, 06:38:06 PM
A bi-directional opinion ... an asshole thinks he is privileged,
I think you changed the definition or perhaps misunderstood the original intent:
I do not think I am privileged..i.e, that I should by nature or any other method be deserving of any special treatment over others…
I am privileged in that I was/am fortunate enough to have a far easier life than 80% of the rest of the world.
I am also privileged in that for all my struggles the effort for me to "escape" my troubles were made far less difficult than many others due to my skin color, sex, and fucking pure handsomeness…….
I thought guilt-tripping had gone out of style, but here it is, old name ground off and all bright, shiny, and new. Nothing ever changes.
Quote from: Gawdzilla Sama on July 25, 2015, 07:44:26 AM
I thought guilt-tripping had gone out of style, but here it is, old name ground off and all bright, shiny, and new. Nothing ever changes.
well, I have no guilt whatsoever.
Quote from: aitm on July 25, 2015, 08:02:29 AM
well, I have no guilt whatsoever.
Ditto, which points up nicely the futility of the campaign to make "everybody but me" feel bad.
aitm ... I was generalizing into the psychological motivation. But I get your POV ... I feel the same way. But I feel both good and bad about it ... but while I haven't done much to directly cause harm, my participation in the "system" contributes to harm ... but escaping systemic guilt is very hard indeed. On the other hand, I don't go around guilt tripping anyone over perceived harm to myself or to whatever group I identify with. That aspect is "un-jewish" ... but then I am non-conformist. On guilt tripping, it is only appropriate to use the Jew card ... if someone is playing the victim in a way that excludes other victims, and if it excluded Jewish victims, then it is anti-Semitic.
So where am I on the "underlying" motivation for this string? Yes, I never destroyed any Native Americans, and I have never enslaved any Africans ... and yes, self identified White folk have many problems in life, not all of them being the beneficiaries of systemic racism. Psychologically I would say ... stop playing the victim ... or the perp.
My grandparents all came from Ireland in the 1900s. I don't feel no guilt about Native Americans or the descendants of people who were captured by their neighbors and sold to Europeans.
Gawdzilla Sama - that is the normal way to feel, you are perfectly normal. Unless you are a family or personal history as a perp ... then it is hard to relate to some people's feelings of tribal guilt (say how Germans feel about WW II, but Japanese do not). But taking the Irish example ... should the English still feel bad about what their ancestors did to Ireland in the 1840s? Some would say yes. Others would also say, when you ancestors came to America, they took on the collective guilt of America, as part of their citizenship. Of course maybe both of those POVs are crazy.
Quote from: Baruch on July 25, 2015, 08:43:30 AM
Gawdzilla Sama - that is the normal way to feel, you are perfectly normal. Unless you are a family or personal history as a perp ... then it is hard to relate to some people's feelings of tribal guilt (say how Germans feel about WW II, but Japanese do not). But taking the Irish example ... should the English still feel bad about what their ancestors did to Ireland in the 1840s? Some would say yes. Others would also say, when you ancestors came to America, they took on the collective guilt of America, as part of their citizenship. Of course maybe both of those POVs are crazy.
I think we have the problem of Original Sin here. And I find OS to be just a way to exploit fear in people. "You may have lead a blameless life, but you're still going to Hell because of something some dumb teenager did 6,000 years ago." Without OS people could decide that they hadn't done anything bad enough to be condemned to eternal torment by their Loving God®. But with OS they can be guilty by inheritance. It's a clever trick if we don't think about, but falls apart on examination.
Quote from: Gawdzilla Sama on July 25, 2015, 08:18:37 AM
Ditto, which points up nicely the futility of the campaign to make "everybody but me" feel bad.
No.
Quote from: Gawdzilla Sama on July 25, 2015, 09:20:56 AM
I think we have the problem of Original Sin here. And I find OS to be just a way to exploit fear in people. "You may have lead a blameless life, but you're still going to Hell because of something some dumb teenager did 6,000 years ago." Without OS people could decide that they hadn't done anything bad enough to be condemned to eternal torment by their Loving God®. But with OS they can be guilty by inheritance. It's a clever trick if we don't think about, but falls apart on examination.
You are demonstrating the issue quite well here, actually.
Being aware of circumstance and privilege is not about guilt, it's about not blaming people for things they cannot control.
Have you ever been pulled over for driving while black?
Quote from: Mermaid on July 25, 2015, 09:27:24 AM
You are demonstrating the issue quite well here, actually.
Being aware of circumstance and privilege is not about guilt, it's about not blaming people for things they cannot control.
Have you ever been pulled over for driving while black?
No, but I was with a guy who was pulled over. The cop apologized and sent us on our way. (Having federal officer IDs helped a bit with that.)
You do suggest a scenario that is more legend than fact, I believe. Most people in the US can go years without being pulled over for anything at all. The inflation of the "driving while black" meme is, I believe, just a way to score points in the Social Game.
Quote from: Gawdzilla Sama on July 25, 2015, 09:32:51 AM
No, but I was with a guy who was pulled over. The cop apologized and sent us on our way. (Having federal officer IDs helped a bit with that.)
You do suggest a scenario that is more legend than fact, I believe. Most people in the US can go years without being pulled over for anything at all. The inflation of the "driving while black" meme is, I believe, just a way to score points in the Social Game.
So your one personal experience is proof that it's all bullshit. Actually it's a genuine phenomenon. Your denial of facts only highlights a very real problem.
Quote from: Mermaid on July 25, 2015, 09:40:03 AM
So your one personal experience is proof that it's all bullshit. Actually it's a genuine phenomenon. Your denial of facts only highlights a very real problem.
Where did I say that my "one personal experience is proof that it's all bullshit"?
QuoteNo, but I was with a guy who was pulled over. The cop apologized and sent us on our way. (Having federal officer IDs helped a bit with that.)
QuoteYou do suggest a scenario that is more legend than fact, I believe. Most people in the US can go years without being pulled over for anything at all. The inflation of the "driving while black" meme is, I believe, just a way to score points in the Social Game.
That's not what you suggested in your post. You stated that I made a claim of "bullshit", when I didn't. Creative, but inaccurate.
Quote from: Gawdzilla Sama on July 25, 2015, 09:47:31 AM
That's not what you suggested in your post. You stated that I made a claim of "bullshit", when I didn't. Creative, but inaccurate.
So that wasn't the implication? What was your point by making these statements then?
Is this not your argument that white privilege is a myth? If not, can you clarify? I have no desire to twist anyone's words, I am reflecting what I hear. Please correct me if I am wrong.
A matter of perception ... if I go a lifetime without being pulled over and abused by a cop ... then the cops seem OK. If I have been pulled over and abused even once ... I am now sensitized to the problem. If I am African-American in the US, and see what the swarms of White racists are up to ... I am going to be concerned, even if I have never been pulled over by a cop. Fortunately I don't put a Star of David on my car and ride thru KKK neighborhoods ... that is my White privilege ... I pass as a redneck.
Original sin? Kind of. But bigger than that. I benefit right now, in person, because of unfair advantages I have. Part of it is because of my race, tribe, nationality. Especially nationality. Americans consume 4x their share of the global GDP ... and it isn't because we are so virtuous as to be rewarded ... it is because since Roanoke we are the biggest bastards on the planet. You may be unaware of how much you unfairly benefit from your status. Thank G-d there is no justice ... I no longer call for it or want it. I won't have to live in this monkey cage forever ... I hope.
On the other hand, life is unfair. I acknowledge that I am unfair myself in my own actions, in the actions today of my nationality etc ... both now and into the past. I am in touch with my inner perp ... not proud of it, but I am aware and honest with myself. Of course if one is a complete individual, who denies all collectivism both in ideology and over time ... then one can rationalize that one is nearly innocent. But not innocent of sociopathy. Idiot and ideology have the same root. And yes, I am an idiot too ... and aware of my sociopathic complicity ... I didn't shoot the bank teller, but I sure am hell driving the getaway car ;-)
Quote from: Mermaid on July 25, 2015, 09:52:28 AM
So that wasn't the implication? What was your point by making these statements then?
Is this not your argument that white privilege is a myth? If not, can you clarify? I have no desire to twist anyone's words, I am reflecting what I hear. Please correct me if I am wrong.
I stated that most people have little or no interface with people on any kind of frequency. I do believe that "white privilege" is guilt-tripping, and that this kind of thing has been discredited already.
And you did twist my words, if you truly don't have a desire to do that I would suggest you post more precisely. I will call bullshit when I see it.
Quote from: Gawdzilla Sama on July 25, 2015, 10:00:44 AM
I stated that most people have little or no interface with people on any kind of frequency. I do believe that "white privilege" is guilt-tripping, and that this kind of thing has been discredited already.
And you did twist my words, if you truly don't have a desire to do that I would suggest you post more precisely. I will call bullshit when I see it.
Uh. Ok.
Here's an example of privilege of sorts in a court room. Several years ago I was caught driving with no license, under a suspension. To be honest I've lost count how many times that's happened to me, but in court there was me and a young black guy. It was probably the 5th or 6th time I'd been nabbed. It almost always was because of a tail light or some dumb shit driving around in my old hoopties. The fact of the matter was before that I thought I was the best drunk driver alive.
So anyway I'm talking to the guy and he had just lost his license because his insurance lapsed and he got stopped and had to go to court. I'd asked if he had anything else on his record and he told me he'd never been arrested for anything before that so I assumed he would just be fined and go home. Instead the judge gave him 30 days in jail and they cuffed him in the court room on the spot.
I was next and my record wasn't so spiffy and I'd had a few DUI convictions to boot so I was feeling on shaky ground at that point.
I walked out of the court room with just a fine that I still haven't paid all these years later. I don't know if you could call it privilege or prejudice or just plain shit luck, but it didn't feel right then and doesn't feel right now.
So, do you have a warrant out for your arrest for failing to pay that fine? (Serious question.)
Gawdzilla Sama ... I agree to resist guilt tripping. That is a political act/aggression that is hostile to the receiver. Just as chauvinism is a hostile act to anyone classed as "other". But psychology and politics are hopefully separate categories.
We do have much more interface than in the past ... practically every crime on the planet is broadcast or Internetted into one's home now, compared to the past when we had little knowledge of what was going on all around us. If one follows the news, one is sensitized as if one lived in E St Louis.
On the other hand, my coworker is a scary PTSD ex military dude ... and we are producing more like him every day of our "forever war". And our vast prison-industrial complex is doing the same, as part of our forever war against ourselves. There is no reform in it.
Quote from: Gawdzilla Sama on July 25, 2015, 10:17:26 AM
So, do you have a warrant out for your arrest for failing to pay that fine? (Serious question.)
Yup and I don't consider it my duty to have myself arrested for it either. That was in Ohio and if Ohio wants me they can have the South Carolina police extradite me for a 15-20 year old traffic ticket.
AllPurposeAtheist ... I feel for you, but as the Feds nationalize the criminal justice system ... you might be nabbed anyway ... there are no state's rights anymore. The real danger today, is that unpaid fines or unrealized warrants ... are now accumulating fines of thousands of dollars ... because the local lockup needs your money (see Ferguson). I am also a perp ... and keep a low profile. And no ... Gawdzilla Samma ... like James Cagney ... they will have to come for me guns blazing (that traffic violation is a crime against the State ... treason!).
Quote from: Baruch on July 25, 2015, 10:21:01 AM
Gawdzilla Sama ... I agree to resist guilt tripping. That is a political act/aggression that is hostile to the receiver. Just as chauvinism is a hostile act to anyone classed as "other". But psychology and politics are hopefully separate categories.
We do have much more interface than in the past ... practically every crime on the planet is broadcast or Internetted into one's home now, compared to the past when we had little knowledge of what was going on all around us. If one follows the news, one is sensitized as if one lived in E St Louis.
I live less than five miles from Ferguson, Missouri.
Quote
On the other hand, my coworker is a scary PTSD ex military dude ... and we are producing more like him every day of our "forever war". And our vast prison-industrial complex is doing the same, as part of our forever war against ourselves. There is no reform in it.
And I'm a retired USN chief petty officer.
My Dad was Navy, 1946-48 ... thanks for the salt water service ;-)
So near St Louis ... sorry to hear that ;-) That neighborhood has been going downhill ever since Lews & Clark. My folks and I were 5 miles from Watts during the original 1965 riots.
Quote from: Baruch on July 25, 2015, 10:25:30 AM
AllPurposeAtheist ... I feel for you, but as the Feds nationalize the criminal justice system ... you might be nabbed anyway ... there are no state's rights anymore. The real danger today, is that unpaid fines or unrealized warrants ... are now accumulating fines of thousands of dollars ... because the local lockup needs your money (see Ferguson). I am also a perp ... and keep a low profile. And no ... Gawdzilla Samma ... like James Cagney ... they will have to come for me guns blazing (that traffic violation is a crime against the State ... treason!).
I've declared myself a state unto my own and the king of my castle. Yeah, I was nabbed in Texas as well and what they really want is cold, hard cash. In fact Texas wanted rent money for a day in the local jail. I told the sergeant there they would just have to give me life in their little jail for having a tail light out to which he said, "Get the fuck out of my jail."
Quote from: Baruch on July 25, 2015, 10:32:13 AM
My Dad was Navy, 1946-48 ... thanks for the salt water service ;-)
Salute to your father!
Quote
So near St Louis ... sorry to hear that ;-) That neighborhood has been going downhill ever since Lews & Clark. My folks and I were 5 miles from Watts during the original 1965 riots.
Some areas are in bad shape, some are in the process of renewal. It's a dynamic process. My area is quite nice, a solid working-class neighborhood. Police are always on my block, primarily because three of them live across the street.
I spent a few years in St Louis one day. It's almost as cheerful as Dayton Ohio which by the way owes mmuch of its downfall to electing funeral directors to city council and the mayor of the city. What's that say about your hometown when it's run by funeral directors? :eek:
Well when the broccoli is perfectly al dente and all buttered up…in the end… it's just broccoli. Everything it seems, is subjective.
Quote from: AllPurposeAtheist on July 25, 2015, 11:02:03 AM
I spent a few years in St Louis one day. It's almost as cheerful as Dayton Ohio which by the way owes mmuch of its downfall to electing funeral directors to city council and the mayor of the city. What's that say about your hometown when it's run by funeral directors? :eek:
I've had people visit here from Wales, Scotland, South Korea and The New Territories. They always had a good time. Most of this county is quite pleasant, some is quite ugly and some, like The Endangered Wolf Center, are cause for hope for humanity.
Fortunately not all of the US is like Detroit ... yet ;-(
Detroit was a monoculture issue. They produced one crop. And the "farmers" thought they were immune to reality.
Anyway, come visit St. Louis. You can visit the Zoo Marlin Perkins made a world famous facility and have dinner on a Mississippi river boat.
I suppose my trips to St Louis are colored by the fact that they were all via hitch hiking in the late 70s, early 80s. Missing that I-70 turnoff back then was an adventure to Siberia and back.
Quote from: Baruch on July 25, 2015, 01:38:41 PM
Fortunately not all of the US is like Detroit ... yet ;-(
Dayton is like Detroit. It was dependent on the auto industry and used to be a hotbed of inventors. The DELCO brand is an acronym for the Dayton Electronic Laboratories Company. The electric starter for the automobile was developed there by Charles Kettering not to mention flight was perfected by Orville and Wilbur Wright on what became Wright Patterson Air Force Base.
Dayton today is the county jail and a bus stop.
Quote from: AllPurposeAtheist on July 25, 2015, 02:08:45 PM
I suppose my trips to St Louis are colored by the fact that they were all via hitch hiking in the late 70s, early 80s. Missing that I-70 turnoff back then was an adventure to Siberia and back.
I remember a trip from Indiana to St. Louis back in the '50s. Our driver didn't know how to read and used landmarks to navigate through East. St. Louis. But they had changed a billboard and we wound up on the back streets. We were stopped at one intersection because a cop car had a double stainless steel sink with drain board sticking out of the top. The cops escorted us into Missouri.
Quote from: Gawdzilla Sama on July 25, 2015, 02:21:17 PM
I remember a trip from Indiana to St. Louis back in the '50s. Our driver didn't know how to read and used landmarks to navigate through East. St. Louis. But they had changed a billboard and we wound up on the back streets. We were stopped at one intersection because a cop car had a double stainless steel sink with drain board sticking out of the top. The cops escorted us into Missouri.
That sounded like it began like a retelling of Texas chainsaw massacre
Quote from: Munch on July 25, 2015, 05:29:45 PM
That sounded like it began like a retelling of Texas chainsaw massacre
Welcome to Missouri,
Congratulations on Surviving Illinois.
Conspiracy nuts would say that the take down of the Midwest was racist, and started as soon as WW I ended, and they didn't need ex-sharecroppers from the South as additional factory labor. Today we prefer factory slaves in China. The driver then and now is war ... endless war. The war profiteering of WW I was too lucrative to let go ... and no need to share with the "little people".
yeah..war is too damn profitable to let stop. Something that the rich and powerful understand, and under their direction champion the "new" patriotism that spawns another generation of ready spurred soldiers. The majority can't seem to see past the flags, the battle marches and the solemn speeches that reward the death of their children, a small coin that they can swing in front of their neighbors face to show that their family was willing to give for the freedom of their neighbor… please respect us for our lost one. *que Queen*... and another one bites the dust, and another bites the dust…and another one gone and another one gone…...
One of the reasons war is so ingrained into the fabric of the US is because when we have a new fighter jet built at least one or more components of the jet are made in every congressional district in the nation. JOBS JOBS JOBS. . If every voting district has a hand in it, even one little toenail in the cookie jar people will think THEY are responsible for winning the war.. Even if the only part is one tiny screw used on one tiny, insignificant part it's patriotic. .
Priviledge matters because it is negative and helps to divide us.
Faith in selfless Unity through Good
Unfortunately the usual result is ... faith in selfish unity thru greed. Hitler or Stalin ... your pick.
Quote from: Gawdzilla Sama on July 25, 2015, 10:27:19 AM
And I'm a retired USN chief petty officer.
So that's why you are so crusty--you are a goddam' Sarge!--which is what that is called in the Army--and which I am (well, not retired--just did not reup after 12 yrs.).
Quote from: popsthebuilder on July 26, 2015, 10:05:30 AM
Priviledge matters because it is negative and helps to divide us.
Faith in selfless Unity through Good
ooooo kay negative…hmmm bad stuff.. faith in selfless unity through good…I don't even know what the fuck that means.
Quote from: aitm on July 26, 2015, 11:42:29 AM
ooooo kay negative…hmmm bad stuff.. faith in selfless unity through good…I don't even know what the fuck that means.
It means if you are selfless and faithful in the good of all creation that we can unite as one consciousness for good which could very well change everything we know and end pain and suffering.
Faith in selfless Unity through Good
Quote from: popsthebuilder on July 26, 2015, 12:14:02 PM
It means if you are selfless and faithful in the good of all creation that we can unite as one consciousness for good which could very well change everything we know and end pain and suffering.
Faith in selfless Unity through Good
Who gets to determine what is "Good"?? You?
Quote from: Mike Cl on July 26, 2015, 12:38:28 PM
Who gets to determine what is "Good"?? You?
Just listen to your conscience and remember that evil is at our core along with righteous.
A differentiation can be determined through emotion.
If a thought or act can lead to any negative emotion for anyone then it is wrong.
Right is always easy, straight forward, and accompanied by only positive emotion.
Faith in selfless Unity through Good
Quote from: popsthebuilder on July 26, 2015, 12:46:12 PM
Just listen to your conscience and remember that evil is at our core along with righteous.
A differentiation can be determined through emotion.
If a thought or act can lead to any negative emotion for anyone then it is wrong.
Right is always easy, straight forward, and accompanied by only positive emotion.
Flowery, beautiful thoughts, there, Pops. But it is so full of holes that you may as well call it Swiss cheese. You have said exactly, nothing. You say--If a thought or act can lead to any negative emotion for anyone then it is wrong. Really? Then we cannot have a single thought in our brains at any time. Let's see--I think I'd like to have a bag of M&M's. I have coronary disease and that sugar is not good--negative thought. But the candy company makes money and hires more people--that's good. My wife sees me eating the candy and becomes upset--that's bad. But the candy tastes soo good. That's good. I die of a heart attack--that's good and bad. My family is sad--my neighbor who hates me, is glad. I could go on and on................but I think you get the point.
Pops--there are not all good or all bad thoughts. There are no all good or all bad acts. Circumstance is everything.
You also tell us that--Faith in selfless Unity through Good. Let's see----faith is simply doing something or accepting something without reason. That is never good. Selfless--what is that? Can anything ever be totally selfless? No. Unity--has a group of any kind been totally united? Through Good--what is good? Your good may be bad to me. It is all subjective and circumstance driven.
Airy Fairy stuff--fluff without any substance. But then that makes you a good Christian.
Quote from: popsthebuilder on July 26, 2015, 12:46:12 PM
Just listen to your conscience and remember that evil is at our core along with righteous.
A differentiation can be determined through emotion.
If a thought or act can lead to any negative emotion for anyone then it is wrong.
Right is always easy, straight forward, and accompanied by only positive emotion.
Faith in selfless Unity through Good
Oh. Yeah. Nice shit there. Jones bones were soft and old, Larry's were hard and young. The end.
Mike CI,
Instincts and initial though and intuition are neesed. Overthinking is not. You think; mmmmm... M&Me. Now put just a little thought into it. First you conclude that that candy is bad for your health. Bam, delima solved. Easy. It will always be your first real thought on any broken down subject.
Moderation is also a good rule of thumb as excess of anything is not good. Money can't go into the equations. Money is bad and the cause of much pain.
How about other examples.
How about pinning a dog up outside in a small place? Say you have two dogs and you pin them both. One is cool with it, and seems just as happy as if it were free. The other is clearly distraught to the point of panic and self harm in attempts to escape. So what is the right thing to do?
Put a little selfless thought into the equation.
You are hurting the dog due to it's panic over captivity. The obvious answer is to free the dog. Well what if it roams onto others property and destroys there belongings? Surly destruction isn't good and will cause stress between neighbors. What do you do.
A little selfless thought will bring you to the conclusion that you can
A) take the time to properly train the dog so it doesn't terrorize the neighborhood. Which takes effort and is good.
B) find a home for the dog where it can feel free of captivity. This would be the lesser option as it needlessly breaks a friendship or bond between dog and owner. And is lazy, which is negative.
How bout another.
Homosexuality.
Perhaps you are homosexual. I don't know how people are or become that way, but that is irelevent to this discussion.
So you and whomever of the same sex are contemplating intercourse. Think of it selflessly. Putting your dick in someone's ass may feel good to you. However that is a selfish perspective. Consider it from a selfless good perspective. Others pleasure? No being a couple you should have the same asperations in regards to sex, so that person's pleasure could be thought of as selfish too. So thought brings us to the conclusion that you shouldn't fuck people in the ass for a number of reasons. First it could cause pain and bowel problems. Second it can lead to hemroids or lack of bowel control. Third, it is an ass where waste comes out. Inserting a sex organ in an excriment organ is a bad idea due to desease. You mite as well wash your hands in shit water.
Another?
How bout vanity, or overly high self respect. Well, let's see. Say you are vane and do no wrong in your own eyes. Think about it in a selfless manner and your whole clouded dilision of self importance will crumble away. We are equal. All are one. Separation of one's self as some entitled thing due to any reason is wrong. This can be observed in that a higher status of oneself will lead to misstreatment of others either willfully, or u consciously.
More examples please.
Faith in selfless Unity through Good
Quote from: aitm on July 26, 2015, 01:45:35 PM
Oh. Yeah. Nice shit there. Jones bones were soft and old, Larry's were hard and young. The end.
No habla Engle.
Quote from: Mike Cl on July 26, 2015, 12:58:29 PM
Flowery, beautiful thoughts, there, Pops. But it is so full of holes that you may as well call it Swiss cheese. You have said exactly, nothing. You say--If a thought or act can lead to any negative emotion for anyone then it is wrong. Really? Then we cannot have a single thought in our brains at any time. Let's see--I think I'd like to have a bag of M&M's. I have coronary disease and that sugar is not good--negative thought. But the candy company makes money and hires more people--that's good. My wife sees me eating the candy and becomes upset--that's bad. But the candy tastes soo good. That's good. I die of a heart attack--that's good and bad. My family is sad--my neighbor who hates me, is glad. I could go on and on................but I think you get the point.
Pops--there are not all good or all bad thoughts. There are no all good or all bad acts. Circumstance is everything.
You also tell us that--Faith in selfless Unity through Good. Let's see----faith is simply doing something or accepting something without reason. That is never good. Selfless--what is that? Can anything ever be totally selfless? No. Unity--has a group of any kind been totally united? Through Good--what is good? Your good may be bad to me. It is all subjective and circumstance driven.
Airy Fairy stuff--fluff without any substance. But then that makes you a good Christian.
Faith in selfless Unity through Good
Quote from: Mike Cl on July 26, 2015, 10:31:42 AM
So that's why you are so crusty--you are a goddam' Sarge!--which is what that is called in the Army--and which I am (well, not retired--just did not reup after 12 yrs.).
I've never been accused of being gentle.
Quote from: Gawdzilla Sama on July 26, 2015, 02:26:37 PM
I've never been accused of being gentle.
Sarge's are never gentle--but always right!
Quote from: popsthebuilder on July 26, 2015, 01:57:58 PM
No habla Engle.
Faith in selfless Unity through Good
You are beyond brain-dead. Thought just does not exist in your world.
Quote from: Mike Cl on July 26, 2015, 02:33:28 PM
You are beyond brain-dead. Thought just does not exist in your world.
Sure buddy. The only thing is that my world, is our world. My perspective is only slightly different.
Thanks.
Faith in selfless Unity through Good
Quote from: Mike Cl on July 26, 2015, 02:33:28 PM
You are beyond brain-dead. Thought just does not exist in your world.
Yeah, he is in his little fairy tale world. The guy is babble nut, they were never known for intellect.
Quote from: popsthebuilder on July 26, 2015, 03:01:26 PM
Sure buddy. The only thing is that my world, is our world. My perspective is only slightly different.
Thanks.
Faith in selfless Unity through Good
You are quite welcome. But you are wrong. My world is not your world and your world is not mine. Your world is built on belief--mine on thought and reason. You are welcome to your world.
Quote from: Mike Cl on July 26, 2015, 04:33:50 PM
You are quite welcome. But you are wrong. My world is not your world and your world is not mine. Your world is built on belief--mine on thought and reason. You are welcome to your world.
Thought without reason. Thought is a beautiful gift. Use it.
Faith in selfless Unity through Good
Quote from: popsthebuilder on July 26, 2015, 04:57:59 PM
Thought without reason. Thought is a beautiful gift. Use it.
Faith in selfless Unity through Good
I quite agree! If only you could do that!
Quote from: Mike Cl on July 26, 2015, 05:23:30 PM
I quite agree! If only you could do that!
Indeed I miscomunicate with some. Allow me not but patience, I ask.
Faith in selfless Unity through Good
Quote from: popsthebuilder on July 26, 2015, 05:35:32 PM
Indeed I miscomunicate with some. Allow me not but patience, I ask.
Faith in selfless Unity through Good
You know, Pops, I'd not mind engaging you in a conversation except for one little problem. You believe and I reason. Where can we start so that we are speaking the same language?
Just found this. We can start before your ground zero Sir.
This is more so an explanation of my perspective.
Please attempt an opened mind. I am confident you will.
Thank you.
Faith in selfless Unity through Good
True Faith
What God Says!
BY DAVID C. PACK
Do you have real faith? Is it sufficient for salvation? Can you know?
Why are most people trapped by fears and worries? Because they lack faith! But what is faith? Is it positive thinking? A certain feeling? One’s church affiliation? Is it confidence? Or hope? Or the simple belief that Jesus died for your sins?
Or is faith something far more?
The Bible states that “without faith it is impossible to please [God]†(Heb. 11:6). This is an incredible statement, yet it is in the Bible! Take it for exactly what it says. Just think! Anything a person does, in attempting to be Christian, means absolutely nothing, if he lacks faith. For without faith, he has no hopeâ€"no possibilityâ€"of pleasing God. Any who are not pleasing God are Christians in vain. So having real faith is serious!
When speaking of our timeâ€"the last generation before His Returnâ€"Jesus asked, “When the Son of Man comes, shall He find faith on the earth?†(Luke 18:8). Think of the incredible implications of this question! Is it possible that true faith could be completely gone from Earth at Christ’s Second Coming? Jesus was able to look forward, into our time, and know that conditions would exist allowing this to be trueâ€"almost!
Jesus said He would build His Church and He promised it would never be destroyed. His Churchâ€"God’s Churchâ€"is where people do have faith according to the Bible definition. Therefore, the presence of God’s people on Earth will ensure that at least a few people will be found to have faith when Christ returns.
Real faith comes from the Spirit of God. It is a fruit of the Holy Spirit. “But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, long-suffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, meekness, temperance: against such there is no law†(Gal. 5:22-23). No one can have faith or even be a true Christian without God’s Spirit.
Here is God’s definition of faith: “Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen†(Heb. 11:1). Did you notice that faith involves “evidence†of things “not seen� The marginal rendering of “substance†is “assurance.†Faith involves an assurance “of things hoped for.†But, if something is hoped for, that something has not yet been received. Therefore, where faith is involved, there is an assurance that it will be received!
Consider this verse: “For we walk by faith, NOT by sight†(II Cor. 5:7). Practicing true faith means learning to disregard what you see. Literally, sight does not count in relation to what God has promised to do or when He will do it. This verse reveals that Christians do not walk by what they see!
What about you? Do you lack faith to know that God is with you? To overcome sin and guilt? To be healed of disease? To believe all things in His Word? To know that “all things [will] work together for good†(Rom. 8:28) if you are serving God? To believe God will work out injustices you suffer? To believe God will provide for you? To believe that you can endure severe trials and persecution? Or that God will deliver you from them? Do you lack faith to see the soon-coming kingdom of God more clearly and that you can be in it?
The Bible says that you need not lack faith in any of these! You can develop real faith!
Faith in selfless Unity through Good
Quote from: popsthebuilder on July 26, 2015, 05:56:25 PM
True Faith
What God Says!
BY DAVID C. PACK
Do you have real faith? Is it sufficient for salvation? Can you know?
Why are most people trapped by fears and worries? Because they lack faith! But what is faith? Is it positive thinking? A certain feeling? One’s church affiliation? Is it confidence? Or hope? Or the simple belief that Jesus died for your sins?
Or is faith something far more?
The Bible states that “without faith it is impossible to please [God]†(Heb. 11:6). This is an incredible statement, yet it is in the Bible! Take it for exactly what it says. Just think! Anything a person does, in attempting to be Christian, means absolutely nothing, if he lacks faith. For without faith, he has no hopeâ€"no possibilityâ€"of pleasing God. Any who are not pleasing God are Christians in vain. So having real faith is serious!
When speaking of our timeâ€"the last generation before His Returnâ€"Jesus asked, “When the Son of Man comes, shall He find faith on the earth?†(Luke 18:8). Think of the incredible implications of this question! Is it possible that true faith could be completely gone from Earth at Christ’s Second Coming? Jesus was able to look forward, into our time, and know that conditions would exist allowing this to be trueâ€"almost!
Jesus said He would build His Church and He promised it would never be destroyed. His Churchâ€"God’s Churchâ€"is where people do have faith according to the Bible definition. Therefore, the presence of God’s people on Earth will ensure that at least a few people will be found to have faith when Christ returns.
Real faith comes from the Spirit of God. It is a fruit of the Holy Spirit. “But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, long-suffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, meekness, temperance: against such there is no law†(Gal. 5:22-23). No one can have faith or even be a true Christian without God’s Spirit.
Here is God’s definition of faith: “Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen†(Heb. 11:1). Did you notice that faith involves “evidence†of things “not seen� The marginal rendering of “substance†is “assurance.†Faith involves an assurance “of things hoped for.†But, if something is hoped for, that something has not yet been received. Therefore, where faith is involved, there is an assurance that it will be received!
Consider this verse: “For we walk by faith, NOT by sight†(II Cor. 5:7). Practicing true faith means learning to disregard what you see. Literally, sight does not count in relation to what God has promised to do or when He will do it. This verse reveals that Christians do not walk by what they see!
What about you? Do you lack faith to know that God is with you? To overcome sin and guilt? To be healed of disease? To believe all things in His Word? To know that “all things [will] work together for good†(Rom. 8:28) if you are serving God? To believe God will work out injustices you suffer? To believe God will provide for you? To believe that you can endure severe trials and persecution? Or that God will deliver you from them? Do you lack faith to see the soon-coming kingdom of God more clearly and that you can be in it?
The Bible says that you need not lack faith in any of these! You can develop real faith!
Faith in selfless Unity through Good
Whoa, my man. This way too far along on your road. This is not even close to my road.
I don't think God exists. And I am sure that Jesus of the bible did not exist. And I know that the bible is full of contradictions, bad ideas, and bad advise. The bible is a collection of writings that was never meant to be cobbled together into a 'book'. So, you see, we are universes apart. You accept all that (what I deem as crap) on faith and belief. I use science and reason for my assessment of my life and my universe. I value empirical data, you don't. I will make a couple of statements. If you'd like to tackle one, pick it and carry on. If not--have a 'good' life.
1. There is no god or gods, or intelligence behind the universe we live in.
2. The person you call Jesus Christ never existed.
3. The bible is not a single document, but a cobbled together collection of writings that are arraigned in many different manners depending upon which religion you follow. It is a totally a creation of men, not any kind of divinity.
Quote from: Mike Cl on July 26, 2015, 06:08:13 PM
Whoa, my man. This way too far along on your road. This is not even close to my road.
I don't think God exists. And I am sure that Jesus of the bible did not exist. And I know that the bible is full of contradictions, bad ideas, and bad advise. The bible is a collection of writings that was never meant to be cobbled together into a 'book'. So, you see, we are universes apart. You accept all that (what I deem as crap) on faith and belief. I use science and reason for my assessment of my life and my universe. I value empirical data, you don't. I will make a couple of statements. If you'd like to tackle one, pick it and carry on. If not--have a 'good' life.
1. There is no god or gods, or intelligence behind the universe we live in.
2. The person you call Jesus Christ never existed.
3. The bible is not a single document, but a cobbled together collection of writings that are arraigned in many different manners depending upon which religion you follow. It is a totally a creation of men, not any kind of divinity.
Please, put your empirical data under but slight scrutiny with me. Ask me something that literally contradicts the theory of duality, or singular consciousness without actual thought with brain.
Faith in selfless Unity through Good
Did you thouroughly read without bias?
Faith in selfless Unity through Good
Quote from: popsthebuilder on July 26, 2015, 06:27:33 PM
Did you thouroughly read without bias?
Faith in selfless Unity through Good
Yes, I did. Did you? Or have you read anything I have written?????
I don't find the bible as having any kind of authority in any area. It is just man-made clap trap! Jesus did not exist, and is as real as Bugs Bunny. I don't want 'real' faith, for that means I will become willfully blind--and I don't like being blind in any situation. I will not take advice from a clap-trap document, nor form Bugs Bunny. Sorry. Feel free to live your life in that manner--I will not.
I made three statements. Take on any one of them, if you wish. But I have a strong feeling that you will not.
Mike CI,
Yes I has since I posted it.
I also read your numerous postulates.
Contrary to popular belief; true Faith eventually brings complete understanding and a heightened sense of awareness.
Old bugs bunny cartoons are still somewhat entertaining.
Thanks, hope I countered the points you were making. Sorry for the confusion.
Faith in selfless Unity through Good
Ah faith that the god who demanded his followers bash the heads of babies and rape little girls will grant you grace, ha good fucking luck with that
Quote from: popsthebuilder on July 26, 2015, 06:52:21 PM
Mike CI,
Yes I has since I posted it.
I also read your numerous postulates.
Contrary to popular belief; true Faith eventually brings complete understanding and a heightened sense of awareness.
Old bugs bunny cartoons are still somewhat entertaining.
Thanks, hope I countered the points you were making. Sorry for the confusion.
Faith in selfless Unity through Good
Not only have you not countered any point I made, you have not even recognized them as points. As for 'true faith' bringing anything but blindness, is totally unfounded. You, my friend, is a prime example. You are so blind that you cannot even acknowledge what my points were--much less address any of them. That's about what I expected, tho.
Faith is the belief in the unbelievable no matter how much evidence piles up against it and even if will cost you your life and the lives of your entire family and everyone and everything you love. Faith in the magic man in the sky who never uttered a single word, doesn't pay one iotas bit of attention to a damned thing anyone ever says or asks for and allows unmeasurable suffering to quite literally billions of people and somehow we're supposed to have faith that "he's" real and will make everything all better if only enough people will mutter the magic words. .
Hey, sounds like Donald Trump is calling again!
God is the good and creation of all existence.
Crist is a state of being. Jesus was Crist. There will be a hole manner of people that will be the second coming of Crist.
It was written by men of faith. The KJVbible, the new testament to be more clear, is currupted through translation by the Roman Catholic Church. It is the cause of much confusion between Christians.
Are those the things you were talking about?
Faith in selfless Unity through Good
I agree that Heaven and Hell are states of being/mind/spirit ... not locations. I appreciate Popsthebuilder for his psychological approach to reality. What I don't share is the Pauline belief in faith as things unseen ... there are things unseen, but I don't have faith in them ... I concentrate on what I can see ... then faith (trust) isn't required ... just analysis. Paul's expectation for an immediate eschaton, that would include both Jews and Gentiles ... was not realized. Quite an idea, but it didn't go down that way ... in fact it went down really bad ... for the Roman legionaries that were caught in a dark alley in Jerusalem, and for all the Jewish people slaughtered by the Romans. That apocalypse happened (eschaton is the more general term). Eschaton means the apparent realization of G-d in history ... it isn't necessarily destructive. Paul preached an inclusive non-destructive eschaton. This is still a good idea IMHO ... but it hasn't been realized ... at least not yet.
From the POV of a mystic, the eschaton is already present. This is the god that Jesus preached in the Gospel of Thomas.
Quote from: popsthebuilder on July 26, 2015, 08:41:31 PM
God is the good and creation of all existence.
Crist is a state of being. Jesus was Crist. There will be a hole manner of people that will be the second coming of Crist.
It was written by men of faith. The KJVbible, the new testament to be more clear, is currupted through translation by the Roman Catholic Church. It is the cause of much confusion between Christians.
Are those the things you were talking about?
Faith in selfless Unity through Good
Quote from: aitm on July 26, 2015, 06:54:56 PM
Ah faith that the god who demanded his followers bash the heads of babies and rape little girls will grant you grace, ha good fucking luck with that
Lie much?
Faith in selfless Unity through Good
Quote from: popsthebuilder on July 27, 2015, 09:45:02 AM
Lie much?
thats what I thought, another follower who never bothered to read the babble.
I have read much and comprehended all that I have read so far. I am sorry you have trouble with the comprehension of such. Try a more traditional, or less translated version.
Thank you.
Faith in selfless Unity through Good
All praise is to God.
Faith in selfless Unity through Good
Quote from: popsthebuilder on July 27, 2015, 10:08:33 AM
I have read much and comprehended all that I have read so far. I am sorry you have trouble with the comprehension of such. Try a more traditional, or less translated version.
AKA, one that reads the way you want it to read. Your bible must be about ten pages long.
Quote from: popsthebuilder on July 26, 2015, 08:41:31 PM
God is the good and creation of all existence.
Crist is a state of being. Jesus was Crist. There will be a hole manner of people that will be the second coming of Crist.
It was written by men of faith. The KJVbible, the new testament to be more clear, is currupted through translation by the Roman Catholic Church. It is the cause of much confusion between Christians.
Are those the things you were talking about?
Faith in selfless Unity through Good
Let me try this one again. Pops, this is what I have been telling you all along. You say--"It was written by men of faith." Yes! It was written by MEN of faith. And 'of faith' means they were willfully blind and writing for propaganda reasons. All copies of the bible, which is a cobbled together collection of an assortment of writings and put into book form, are 'corrupted'. We don't have the autographs of any of it. Who knows how many times it has been changed and rearranged. So, you as a man of faith, read and understand everything through willful blindness. Everything you believe in is a lie. All that you put your faith in is a lie. You lie to yourself--you lie to me--you lie to everybody you talk to when you refer to your beliefs. You, basically, are an immoral man. Your religion is immoral. You wallow in your evilness and relish it as 'good'. You are, truly, a lost soul. I do feel sorry for you Pops. May you gain some true sight at one point in your life.
Quote from: Gawdzilla Sama on July 27, 2015, 10:36:52 AM
AKA, one that reads the way you want it to read. Your bible must be about ten pages long.
Torah
Book of Enoch
Qur'an
KJV Old Testament
And a little of the New Testament.
Might stay away from Romans all together, thought.
Thanks.
Faith in selfless Unity through Good
Quote from: dtq123 on July 22, 2015, 04:52:19 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qavNOONOuRw
Stick to the topic guys, does privilege matter? :neutral:
Mike Ci,
I must rest. I will try to make this clear.
Men, even those of undeniable Faith can still waiver due to the deceitful nature of dark that resides in all at some level. Contrary to your belief; true Faith brings with it heightened senses and understanding to the point that it states that if you must, in fear of vearing, remove from you whatever is the cause of such misguidedness. A firm grasp of an all encompassing existence with no possibility of refution is knowledge whether you understand, or not.
You are correct to an extent in that curruption has been rife throught translation since the Roman Empire.
Hey, I have an idea! Why don't you search the origins of the root word for imperialism.
There's another. Roam.
I venture to say the book of Romans is the most manipulated of the New Testament. These lies have done exactly what they were meant for. To confuse the intellect(you)
Try reading any part of any bible with the word Jesus removed and or replaced with Crist. See Crist is a state of being. Jesus did have it. All others are capable though. Be patient, and opened. Yes you are right about the bible, however, outright blaitent manipulation would be easy to spot to everyone and doesn't conform to the nature of the beast.
Thank you.
Faith in selfless Unity through Good
Quote from: dtq123 on July 27, 2015, 10:59:16 AM
Stick to the topic guys, does privilege matter? :neutral:
Privilege matters in that everything should have the privilege of unfaltered existence. Any other attempted use of privilege is potentially damning.
Thank you.
Quote from: Mike Cl on July 27, 2015, 10:54:32 AM
Let me try this one again. Pops, this is what I have been telling you all along. You say--"It was written by men of faith." Yes! It was written by MEN of faith. And 'of faith' means they were willfully blind and writing for propaganda reasons. All copies of the bible, which is a cobbled together collection of an assortment of writings and put into book form, are 'corrupted'. We don't have the autographs of any of it. Who knows how many times it has been changed and rearranged. So, you as a man of faith, read and understand everything through willful blindness. Everything you believe in is a lie. All that you put your faith in is a lie. You lie to yourself--you lie to me--you lie to everybody you talk to when you refer to your beliefs. You, basically, are an immoral man. Your religion is immoral. You wallow in your evilness and relish it as 'good'. You are, truly, a lost soul. I do feel sorry for you Pops. May you gain some true sight at one point in your life.
Faith in selfless Unity through Good
Quote from: popsthebuilder on July 27, 2015, 11:19:42 AM
Be patient, and opened.
"I have an open mind, but not so open that my brains will fall out" -James Randi
... I can't say so much for pops though....
Quote from: popsthebuilder on July 27, 2015, 10:08:33 AM
I have read much and comprehended all that I have read so far. .
You're a liar. The book of numbers chapter 31 goes about telling his followers to kill everyone, children and babies and to keep all the young girls for yourself. i.e make them slaves and rape them. You're god is a piece of shit and I can only assume you are as well if you worship that piece of shit. So forgive me if I don't buy your whole moral bullshit and goodness when you follow a piece of shit like that.
Quote from: aitm on July 27, 2015, 03:26:55 PM
You're a liar. The book of numbers chapter 31 goes about telling his followers to kill everyone, children and babies and to keep all the young girls for yourself. i.e make them slaves and rape them. You're god is a piece of shit and I can only assume you are as well if you worship that piece of shit. So forgive me if I don't buy your whole moral bullshit and goodness when you follow a piece of shit like that.
It is not my place to forgive. According to texts; the faultlessly ignorant will serve no punishment. So your good. Some real research wouldn't hurt though, would it. Sorry you feel so negatively based on assumption or lack of comprehension.
Good luck.
Faith in selfless Unity through Good
Quote from: popsthebuilder on July 27, 2015, 03:50:10 PM
It is not my place to forgive. According to texts; the faultlessly ignorant will serve no punishment. So your good. Some real research wouldn't hurt though, would it. Sorry you feel so negatively based on assumption or lack of comprehension.
Good luck.
Faith in selfless Unity through Good
2 questions:
Why are you here? And how long do you expect to stay?
Quote from: popsthebuilder on July 27, 2015, 03:50:10 PM
Some real research wouldn't hurt though, would it. Sorry you feel so negatively based on assumption or lack of comprehension.
LOL, just what we thought, another cherry picker. This is why you and those like you are considered such dipshits. You can't even defend your own babble, you just turn a blind eye. LOL,, thank reason and common sense that your religion is losing and intellect is gaining. Pretty soon you can join the rest of your tribe and make a nice home in the mountains somewhere and impregnate your sisters and daughters.
Quote from: PickelledEggs on July 27, 2015, 04:25:39 PM
2 questions:
Why are you here? And how long do you expect to stay?
I am here in hopes of bringing light to some.
I will be here until I feel it is time for me to move on. Or get banned for not aligning with others beliefs such as science which I completely agree with.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Faith in selfless Unity through Good
Thanks for popping a squat in this thread pops. I was going to say some humankin privileged things but I don't think I can top you.
Heyy Pops, how's your brother Bob ? :shifty:
Quote from: popsthebuilder on July 27, 2015, 04:49:37 PM
I am here in hopes of bringing light to some.
I will be here until I feel it is time for me to move on. Or get banned for not aligning with others beliefs such as science which I completely agree with.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Faith in selfless Unity through Good
Well FYI, proselytising is against our rules. You did read the rules of the site, did you?
Eh who am I kidding, we all know you don't care about that and it's going to continue trying to "enlighten us" ... I'll give you a chance to prove me wrong though. Just one...
Sent from your mom.
Quote from: popsthebuilder on July 27, 2015, 03:50:10 PM
It is not my place to forgive. According to texts; the faultlessly ignorant will serve no punishment. So your good. Some real research wouldn't hurt though, would it. Sorry you feel so negatively based on assumption or lack of comprehension.
Good luck.
Faith in selfless Unity through Good
Pops--do you know what a hypocrite is? Look in the mirror. "Some real research"???? How would you know what that is? And comprehension is exactly what you lack. If you have engaged in some real research, could you tell us what that might be?
Quote from: PickelledEggs on July 27, 2015, 04:54:51 PM
Well FYI, proselytising is against our rules. You did read the rules of the site, did you?
Eh who am I kidding, we all know you don't care about that and it's going to continue trying to "enlighten us" ... I'll give you a chance to prove me wrong though. Just one...
Sent from your mom.
Who said anything about trying to convert anyone?
That's not the same as debating whether or not science backs the possibility of creation.
Thanks again.
Faith in selfless Unity through Good
Quote from: popsthebuilder on July 27, 2015, 05:10:15 PM
Who said anything about trying to convert anyone?
That's not the same as debating whether or not science backs the possibility of creation.
Thanks again.
Faith in selfless Unity through Good
I didn't say the word convert at all... I used your word... enlighten.
Sent from your mom.
Proselytizing is the word you used if I'm not mistaken.
Faith in selfless Unity through Good
Quote from: popsthebuilder on July 27, 2015, 10:55:57 AM
Torah
Book of Enoch
Qur'an
KJV Old Testament
And a little of the New Testament.
Might stay away from Romans all together, thought.
Thanks.
Faith in selfless Unity through Good
You might want to read them.
Quote from: popsthebuilder on July 27, 2015, 05:14:31 PM
Proselytizing is the word you used if I'm not mistaken.
Faith in selfless Unity through Good
And? You are. Like I said... I'm giving you a chance to continue conversing on this site without "enlightening" us. If you can do that, you can stay. If not, I got the hammer ready.
(http://i.imgur.com/7dEAM8g.jpg)
Quote from: popsthebuilder on July 27, 2015, 05:10:15 PM
Who said anything about trying to convert anyone?
That's not the same as debating whether or not science backs the possibility of creation.
Thanks again.
Faith in selfless Unity through Good
You want to debate? Hell, you haven't even gotten to the threshold of having a conversation. And you have not mentioned science once that I'm aware of. How can you possibly say that science backs the possibility of creation? Care to supply a few reasons why that may be so?
Quote from: Mike Cl on July 27, 2015, 07:08:23 PM
You want to debate? Hell, you haven't even gotten to the threshold of having a conversation. And you have not mentioned science once that I'm aware of. How can you possibly say that science backs the possibility of creation? Care to supply a few reasons why that may be so?
Duality
Hypothesis of quantization
Infinity within the Universe
Faith in selfless Unity through Good
Quote from: popsthebuilder on July 27, 2015, 08:00:21 PM
Duality
Hypothesis of quantization
Infinity within the Universe
Faith in selfless Unity through Good
equilibrium
mononucleosis
trans siberian orchestra
Actually, if you want to try and hold your own in a debate, that might be kind of entertaining. Lets do it
Who wants to be the mediator? Otherwise you guys can do one in the non-formal debate section.
lets do it lets do it lets do it
(https://i.warosu.org/data/fa/img/0069/54/1380021789493.jpg)
(I had too much caffeine today... I am WIRED)
PickledEggs .. you need to get in line for the sacrament of the holy Visine ;-)
Pops may just be too poetic for his own good. The point of Zen haiku, is that words are meaningless.
Quote from: popsthebuilder on July 27, 2015, 08:00:21 PM
Duality
Hypothesis of quantization
Infinity within the Universe
Faith in selfless Unity through Good
Nice words. But you need to talk a little bit about what they mean to you. And reasons are not just words or short phrases. What does any of this have to do with science? Do you even know what science is? I really don't think you do.
Quote from: PickelledEggs on July 27, 2015, 08:21:39 PM
equilibrium
mononucleosis
trans siberian orchestra
Why the fuck are you trolling this particular thread? Derailing doesn't equate to a little blue pill for you, does it?
Quote from: Gawdzilla Sama on July 27, 2015, 09:16:41 PM
Why the fuck are you trolling this particular thread? Derailing doesn't equate to a little blue pill for you, does it?
Sorry... I was just trying to be funny... it apparently didn't work out.
Sent from your mom.
And I thought it was already de-railed... That's why I was hoping that mike and pops or dtq and pops (because dtq was looking to do a debate with someone earlier) would do an actual debate in a different thread.
Quote from: PickelledEggs on July 27, 2015, 09:24:40 PM
And I thought it was already de-railed... That's why I was hoping that mike and pops or dtq and pops (because dtq was looking to do a debate with someone earlier) would do an actual debate in a different thread.
I just opened a new thread for Pops and all others, so he has a place to show us how science and reason will lead us to God. Come one, come all......................
Mike CI
Duality pertains to absolutely everything as balance and the abitlity do throw that balance in one direction or another.
Hypothesis of quantization refers to the substance of existence and the facts that it is non material constantly fluctuating in different levels of vibration and how it is everywhere at all times and literally explains the possibility of actual miracle, and God before creation.
Infinity can be observed from amebas to black holes in the form of perpetual energy, or infinite potential.
Now if you want to make it interesting look up;
Arius, Christology, Crist, Jainism, arianism.
Thanks
Faith in selfless Unity through Good
Oh yeah
Asceticism. Not that I'm sayin anyone has to live by it, it's just proof that Christianity as we know it is a lie unless you are a Quaker, protestant, Mormon, or evangalist.
Faith in selfless Unity through Good
Quote from: PickelledEggs on July 27, 2015, 09:19:20 PM
Sorry... I was just trying to be funny... it apparently didn't work out.
Sent from your mom.
No, accept my apologies. I hit the wrong target. I blame Obama.
Quote from: Gawdzilla Sama on July 27, 2015, 10:29:33 PM
No, accept my apologies. I hit the wrong target. I blame Obama.
I hope Obama doesn't get another 4 years in office... It's shit like this with pops that really makes me wonder what he's doing in that White House...
aka: Nah. no worries. we all do that on occasion.
Sent from your mom.
Quote from: popsthebuilder on July 27, 2015, 10:08:25 PM
Mike CI
Duality pertains to absolutely everything as balance and the abitlity do throw that balance in one direction or another.
Hypothesis of quantization refers to the substance of existence and the facts that it is non material constantly fluctuating in different levels of vibration and how it is everywhere at all times and literally explains the possibility of actual miracle, and God before creation.
Infinity can be observed from amebas to black holes in the form of perpetual energy, or infinite potential.
Now if you want to make it interesting look up;
Arius, Christology, Crist, Jainism, arianism.
Thanks
Faith in selfless Unity through Good
Pops, moved the discussion to another thread. Just for you and any who want to join.
Quote from: PickelledEggs on July 27, 2015, 10:32:25 PM
I hope Obama doesn't get another 4 years in office... It's shit like this with pops that really makes me wonder what he's doing in that White House...
Impossible. The 23rd amendment makes it so that a US citizen is limited to a maximum of two terms as president in his/her lifetime.
Technically, you can be the VP, have the President die in office early (see Bush plan via Hinkley) and then get elected at the top of the ticket, twice ... equating to 2+ terms. This happened with Truman, who was the first acting President covered by the amendment ... he chose not to run in 1952. Not sure if you can still pull a Truman. President Ford might have ... since Nixon resigned and Ford was never elected but appointed anyway, by Nixon and Ford stayed "unelected" thanks to Carter.
Quote from: Hydra009 on July 28, 2015, 04:06:22 AM
Impossible. The 23rd amendment makes it so that a US citizen is limited to a maximum of two terms as president in his/her lifetime.
... I already knew that... It was a joke.
Sent from your mom.
Quote from: Baruch on July 28, 2015, 07:13:42 AM
Technically, you can be the VP, have the President die in office early (see Bush plan via Hinkley) and then get elected at the top of the ticket, twice ... equating to 2+ terms. This happened with Truman, who was the first acting President covered by the amendment ... he chose not to run in 1952. Not sure if you can still pull a Truman. President Ford might have ... since Nixon resigned and Ford was never elected but appointed anyway, by Nixon and Ford stayed "unelected" thanks to Carter.
But there's a ten year cap as well.
1. The original age limit on (not too young) and not naturalized ... was designed to prevent Alexander Hamilton from running
2. The revised limit on terms and time ... is designed to prevent another FDR.
In general I would agree with Goldilocks ... not too young and not too old and not too many terms ... is just right. But the opponents of FDR, IMHO ... sucked rocks ... so FDR all the way!
Quote from: Baruch on July 28, 2015, 01:20:30 PM
In general I would agree with Goldilocks ... not too young and not too old and not too many terms ... is just right. But the opponents of FDR, IMHO ... sucked rocks ... so FDR all the way!
Wendell Willkie was good enough for FDR to send him to Europe as his "Minister without portfolio", you might say. (That was the 1940 election, btw.) Dewey was 1944, IIRC.
If you listen to Mike Huckabee the apocalypse is right around the corner every other day and the great reptilian leader of the Democratic party is going to cause it to happen. Talk about privileged! Causing the apocalypse to happen? I tried, but I'm not a reptile and thus have no secret service protection.
The reptilians (original V movie) ate live rats when nobody was looking. This discouraged me from joining up ;-) I am more of a mammal kind of guy (coughs up fur ball)!
I think V was the last TV movie I actually liked. . I wonder if it's on one of the Roku channels. .
Quote from: AllPurposeAtheist on July 28, 2015, 07:21:34 PM
If you listen to Mike Huckabee the apocalypse is right around the corner every other day and the great reptilian leader of the Democratic party is going to cause it to happen. Talk about privileged! Causing the apocalypse to happen? I tried, but I'm not a reptile and thus have no secret service protection.
He speaks of the RCC, and their massive corruption over the majority of global society. Through manipulative, atrocious means, and selfish negative relations.
Faith in selfless Unity through Good
There is more than one kind of reptile. The RCC is the Komodo.
And then we have the truly noble 121.92 meter fire-breathing mutant lizard-thingy.