Impeach Trump????

[Baruch]

I am in my early 20s, but I feel much older than my peers. Always have. Adults have been telling me that I'm "mature" and "grown up" for my age my whole life. Make of that what you will.

Reincarnation?  Do you have a fetish for potting soil? ;-)

[Plu]

If she allows you, then you are her bitch.

I'm not sure what the word "allows" means in this sentence, but the combination of words doesn't seem to make a whole lot of sense.

[Baruch]

I'm not sure what the word "allows" means in this sentence, but the combination of words doesn't seem to make a whole lot of sense.

English isn't my native language, Vulcan is ;-)

Not being personal, I try to deal with stereotypes only.  But I was married to a woman for 17 years, so I know the score.

[Plu]

English isn't my native language, Vulcan is ;-)

Not being personal, I try to deal with stereotypes only.  But I was married to a woman for 17 years, so I know the score.

I'm not sure how long I've been married, neither of us are keeping track. But mine is a bit... different.

[aitm]

I'm not sure what the word "allows" means in this sentence, but the combination of words doesn't seem to make a whole lot of sense.

Yeah, welcome to Baruch....the longer you know him the less sense he makes. Says a lot of words....lot of words, but sometimes it's like there is a food processer twixt his brain and fingers and all the words get scrambly.....yes I said scrambly.

[Blackleaf]

Oh, I meant things like valuing honesty (9th commandment), respecting your parents (4th commandment), condemning crime (6th and 8th commandment) and envy (10th commandment) and valuing faithfulness (7th commandment). Christianity and Judaism have a lot more texts that relate to morality, of course, but the 10 commandmens are an easy-to-understand example that everyone already knows about.

Christians have been standing in the way of social progress ever since they took power, and they always will. As for their values, psychological research (which is my field of expertise, BTW) shows that Christians are ones who most often break their own rules. For example, they are more likely to get a divorce, and more likely to be convicted of violent crimes. They deserve no credit for the moral values that have become commonplace today. It wasn't Christianity that ended slavery, or gave women the right to vote, or gave gay and lesbian people the right to marry. We have secularism to thank for those things.

[Halkenburg]

Christians have been standing in the way of social progress ever since they took power, and they always will. As for their values, psychological research (which is my field of expertise, BTW) shows that Christians are ones who most often break their own rules. For example, they are more likely to get a divorce, and more likely to be convicted of violent crimes. They deserve no credit for the moral values that have become commonplace today. It wasn't Christianity that ended slavery, or gave women the right to vote, or gave gay and lesbian people the right to marry. We have secularism to thank for those things.

You're correct on all accounts, but even as an atheist, I can't deny the huge influence that Christianity has had on Western views on morality.

[Mike Cl]

You're correct on all accounts, but even as an atheist, I can't deny the huge influence that Christianity has had on Western views on morality.

Yes, religion has had a huge effect upon what is called morality.  But does that mean the effect was positive?  I would suggest we, as a society, would be better off without that influence.  The world would be better off.

As for your thought that morality is reflected by the 10 Commandments, which commandments are your referring to?  What is the source of those commandments--and have you read them from the bible yourself?

[Blackleaf]

The only good rules of the Ten Commandments are the most elementary school levels of ethical. Don't murder, don't lie, don't cheat. The rest of it can be summed up as, "Don't offend God, and don't question authority." Not exactly what I'd call ethical ideals. And then there are the rules about coveting property, of which include woman as property. As a standard for ethical behavior, I'd give the Ten Commandments a C-.

[Baruch]

You're correct on all accounts, but even as an atheist, I can't deny the huge influence that Christianity has had on Western views on morality.

Not all atheists want to return to paganism, some of them want to be elected to seats in the Galactic Senate, to help or hinder Emperor Palpatine.

Christianity was a means of continuing some key insights of pre-Christian morality.  Morality goes back to early Bronze Age.  The whole "holy communion" thing is actually, prehistoric.  Like sin eating at early Irish funerals (eating food off the chest of the dead person, to justify the dead) or Bronze Age Syria (royal cult of annual feasts with the dead (see day after Halloween).  Continuity rules, not the radical discontinuity that radicals imagine.  Utopia means what?

Most folks on the geek/nerd side don't process certain kinds of thoughts/language.  By nature more than by MK Ultra, they simply can't do a thought-crime ;-)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jY-OClWEUQQ

Some people here fantasize being robots, or uploaded AI.  All part of the fetish community of being a humanoid or non-humanoid object.

[Baruch]

Yes, religion has had a huge effect upon what is called morality.  But does that mean the effect was positive?  I would suggest we, as a society, would be better off without that influence.  The world would be better off.

As for your thought that morality is reflected by the 10 Commandments, which commandments are your referring to?  What is the source of those commandments--and have you read them from the bible yourself?

Yes, because natural law, E O Wilson's ant colony ethics.  Which queen to you serve?

On the other hand, was the Marquis de Sade the product of degenerate Catholicism, or of atheist libertinism?

[Baruch]

The only good rules of the Ten Commandments are the most elementary school levels of ethical. Don't murder, don't lie, don't cheat. The rest of it can be summed up as, "Don't offend God, and don't question authority." Not exactly what I'd call ethical ideals. And then there's the rule about coveting property, of which include woman as property. As a standard for ethical behavior, I'd give the Ten Commandments a C-.

Correct, in context.  Also "covet" might actually mean bestiality etc.  The Bible uses euphemisms to avoid direct sexual speech.

But there are always a minority of people, who think they are trans-human (in the empirical sense).  Rationalists frequently fall into this mode, because they are Vulcans ;-)  Of course human existence is a horrible thing, individually and socially.  And the organism seeks escape, especially into fantasy.  That is part of the drive behind religion.  Some prefer Star Wars, others prefer Bronze Age Wars ;-)  Fantasy in both cases.  The human being hates to contemplate its own mortality except for Shiva or Durga worshippers, who practice cremation ground meditation.  And certain kinds of Christian monks ...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S5gofgWvSyA

This is why fictional horror is a "thing".  A substitute for realistic mortality.

Early Christianity had many influences including Hinduism and Buddhism.  And Egyptian culture.

[Unbeliever]

Oh, I meant things like valuing honesty (9th commandment), respecting your parents (4th commandment), condemning crime (6th and 8th commandment) and envy (10th commandment) and valuing faithfulness (7th commandment). Christianity and Judaism have a lot more texts that relate to morality, of course, but the 10 commandmens are an easy-to-understand example that everyone already knows about.

I can't help asking Which Ten Commandments?

There are three versions of the Ten Commandments in the Bible. Two of them are very similar, Exodus 20:2-Exodus 20:17[2] and Deuteronomy 5:6-Deuteronomy 5:21.[3]

The third version, in Exodus 34:12-Exodus 34:26,[4] is radically different, and is the only one which the Bible refers to as "the Ten Commandments". This is the second set which were given to Moses following the destruction of the first tablets when he suffered from an anger management failure after witnessing the Israelites worshipping the golden calf. While it has a few similarities to the original set, it does not include well known rational commandments such as "Thou shalt not steal" and "Thou shalt not kill"; but has instead instructions about holy days, not cooking kids in their mothers' milk, and God expresses a distaste for sacrifices containing honey, leaven, or both blood and yeast (although either alone is apparently quite acceptable). God says Exodus 34:1 that this second set was also written on the first pair of tablets, so the "Ten Commandments" from Exodus 20:1 are probably not the Ten Commandments at all.

This is the list of the new commandments in Exodus 34:[5]
1. Do not worship any other god, for the LORD, whose name is Jealous, is a jealous God.
2. Do not make any idols.
3. Celebrate the Festival of Unleavened Bread. For seven days eat bread made without yeast, as I commanded you. Do this at the appointed time in the month of Aviv, for in that month you came out of Egypt.
4. The first offspring of every womb belongs to me, including all the firstborn males of your livestock, whether from herd or flock.
5. Redeem the firstborn donkey with a lamb, but if you do not redeem it, break its neck. Redeem all your firstborn sons. No one is to appear before me empty-handed.
6. Six days you shall labor, but on the seventh day you shall rest; even during the plowing season and harvest, you must rest.
7. Celebrate the Festival of Weeks with the firstfruits of the wheat harvest, and the Festival of Ingathering at the turn of the year.
8. Three times a year all your men are to appear before the Sovereign LORD, the God of Israel.
9. Do not offer the blood of a sacrifice to me along with anything containing yeast and do not let any of the sacrifices from the Passover Festival remain until morning.
10. Bring the best of the firstfruits of your soil to the house of the LORD your God. "Do not cook a young goat in its mother's milk."

And this set of commandments in Exodus 34 are the only set the Bible gives the label "the ten commandments" to.

And he was there with the LORD forty days and forty nights; he did neither eat bread, nor drink water. And he wrote upon the tables the words of the covenant, the ten commandments.

[Unbeliever]

Tsk, Americans are such prudes. What's wrong with sleeping with people who aren't your spouse?

Having never had a spouse, I've certainly got no problem with sex sans marriage. I'd never marry a woman who would have me for a husband.

[Hydra009]

You're correct on all accounts, but even as an atheist, I can't deny the huge influence that Christianity has had on Western views on morality.

Of course.  A tremendous impact. 

And they outlawed divorce before they outlawed slavery.  A very strange morality.  How fortunate we are to live in a (mostly) secular age!