Hi

[Arik]

Consciousness is in fact perceived, at least on a subjective level.  So you're lying about it being imperceptible in addition to lying in claiming that I say it doesn't exist.

That is not honest Hydra.
I point out and said that consciousness can not be perceived by our senses.
Surely I did.
That however does not means that there are no other ways to perceive consciousness in a non physical way.
Here we go back to what I explained in previous posts in which I said that consciousness is an abstract entity that can not be created by something physical such as the brain.

[Arik]

Claiming to go further and actually going further are two very different things. Find me one article published by a yoga expert in a peer reviewed scientific journal. You can't, because it isn't science. It makes claims that it can't back up, which is the exact opposite of science. And I don't give a damn about Shiva. Not only does she not exist, but science had a much different definition back then. The high standards scientists hold themselves to now were only recently aquired.

Sorry BL but your confusion is really bad.

Here we got a science (physical science) that work within a finite arena or dimension which is constantly changing and on the other side we got a science that being within the dimension of the non finite it never change so what was good in the past is also good today unlike physical science.

By saying that this science does not exist you act like a small child that can not understand why two adult are kissing each other.
How would you know that it does not exist what smart people have practiced for the last seven thousand years long before physical science existed?

[Hydra009]

The point that I try to make is that many important scientists working in such important center like the CERN understand what Shiva did to help human progress that is why they agree to have Shiva statue outside their center.

The fact that some scientists may be religious is not in itself an argument.

Also, you desperately need cluing in about the statue: it's not CERN scientists endorsing Hinduism or anything like that.  It's just a gift from India which, to Hindus, draws a parallel between "the cosmic dance" of subatomic particles and Hindu religion.  But obviously, that meaning is in the eye of the beholder.  It has no more significance than one makes it out to have.

[Hydra009]

That is not honest Hydra.

That's true.  You still are not being honest with us, even after correction.

[Arik]

You do have goggles on, eh?  Never listen to what another says, do you?  All science is physical science, since all that exists is physical.  Can one have a science of the supernatural?  I think you believe that that is so.  How do you test the supernatural, since there is no supernatural?  I actually did call a plumber to remodel my bathroom, for he was capable of doing the plumbing and the carpentry needed to get the job done.  You have STILL not given even a shred of evidence your fictional fanciful view of the universe is real.

So you say that..............all that exists is physical............

If that is the case then you can touch, taste, hear or see the consciousness isn't it Mike?

Gee, you must be a super super semi-God to be able to do what nobody else is able to do.
Congratulation Mike.

[Blackleaf]

Sorry BL but your confusion is really bad.

Here we got a science (physical science) that work within a finite arena or dimension which is constantly changing and on the other side we got a science that being within the dimension of the non finite it never change so what was good in the past is also good today unlike physical science.

By saying that this science does not exist you act like a small child that can not understand why two adult are kissing each other.
How would you know that it does not exist what smart people have practiced for the last seven thousand years long before physical science existed?

That you think that science changing is a bad thing just goes to show how little you understand it. The willingness of science to expand its understanding, to correct itself when necessary, is a strength. The stubbornness of theists to claim they know the truth based on their own subjective opinions and perceptions, and refusing to change their minds, is a weakness.

[Arik]

The fact that some scientists may be religious is not in itself an argument.

Also, you desperately need cluing in about the statue: it's not CERN scientists endorsing Hinduism or anything like that.  It's just a gift from India which, to Hindus, draws a parallel between "the cosmic dance" of subatomic particles and Hindu religion.  But obviously, that meaning is in the eye of the beholder.  It has no more significance than one makes it out to have.

Hindu religion?

No, Hydra.
Nothing to do with religion.
In fact Shiva was against what religions today are preaching but I guess to you religion and spirituality must be the same thing.

Shiva explained the cycle of creation, preservation and dissolution which is exactly what  the CERN is working on that is why there is a solid connection.

[Arik]

That you think that science changing is a bad thing just goes to show how little you understand it. The willingness of science to expand its understanding, to correct itself when necessary, is a strength. The stubbornness of theists to claim they know the truth based on their own subjective opinions and perceptions, and refusing to change their minds, is a weakness.

Wrong again BL.

When I ever said that physical science is bad?

First I prefer a science that never change but that doesn't mean that I reject a science that change such as the physical science.
As far as I am living in a body-brain and consciousness that is in constant change I have no option but to go along with these changes so I can not reject physical science but at the same time I also bet most of my money (so to speak) in a science that never change.

[Mike Cl]

So you say that..............all that exists is physical............

If that is the case then you can touch, taste, hear or see the consciousness isn't it Mike?

Gee, you must be a super super semi-God to be able to do what nobody else is able to do.
Congratulation Mike.

Thank you.

[Mike Cl]

1) You got a book that explains science right in front of you but you will not touch it until your consciousness tell you to open in order to learn what is written so the motivation start from within.
This is a very simple thing that I try to explain you.
What motivate you motivate everybody else because at the end all the roads lead to the same place.
Different consciousness are the same reflection of the same cosmic consciousness.
The moon in the night reflect her imagine in a lake.
You can see a myriad of moons according to the position in which you are around the lake but the moon is only one.
Once this concept of separation vanish then people understand who this cosmic consciousness is.

2) Surely science can give reliable answer but again everything move and change in this finite universe so what is reliable today may not make any sense tomorrow that is why I do not bet all my money (so to speak) on something that comes and goes as too many people do.

Clearly you have the universe figured out.  You refuse to take what I write into account on any level--in other words, you are willfully blind.  All I can do is to wish you luck on your journey.

[Hydra009]

Hindu religion?

No, Hydra.
Nothing to do with religion.

Well, Shiva is one of the principal deities of Hinduism.  That's a fact.  Claiming that a deity has nothing to do with religion seems be quite the dubious claim.  I'm tempted to yet again call it lying, but I'm starting to think your knowledge of both religion and science is so poor that you might actually believe what you're saying.

[Baruch]

Thank you.

Shh ... I am the only self-acknowledged demi-god here!

[Baruch]

Well, Shiva is one of the principal deities of Hinduism.  That's a fact.  Claiming that a deity has nothing to do with religion seems be quite the dubious claim.  I'm tempted to yet again call it lying, but I'm starting to think your knowledge of both religion and science is so poor that you might actually believe what you're saying.

There is such a thing as atheist Saivism.  We have had one of those post here in the past.  Just saying, not saying Arik is one.

Which postings, Baruch? I am a strong atheist of long standing. I do not believe in God, soul, heaven, hell, transference of Karmas to any non-existent future lives, judgment, birth, death, and creation. Tell me on what to explain my views and I will gladly do that.

[aitm]

Sorry BL but your confusion is really bad.

hoo-boy....

[Blackleaf]

hoo-boy....