Hi

[Minimalist]

It remind me when Jesus try to kick the priests out from around the temple.

You do realize I hope that that is an inherently stupid story?  The temple courtyards covered acres and the guards I suppose just stood there watching?

Your boy "jesus" would have had a spear stuck up his ass in short order.  That's what the guards were there for.

[trdsf]

Here we go back to what I explained in previous posts in which I said that consciousness is an abstract entity that can not be created by something physical such as the brain.

Prove that assertion.  You don't get to just assume something like that.  While the question of the nature of consciousness is obviously not solved, there is no evidence to date to suggest that it requires more than the physical brain and the electrochemical events therein, and the current lack of a solid explanation is not license to speculate randomly.

Obviously, I need to quote myself from another thread: the only 'therefore' that follows 'we don't know' is 'we need to do more research'.  You can not get from "we don't understand how consciousness works" to "therefore it's supernatural/non-physical/other woo".  You can only follow it with "therefore we need to research consciousness further".

And without evidence, your assertion isn't worth the electrons that put it on my monitor.

[Arik]

How about some evidence for god--any god.  BTW, Jesus is a myth and a fiction, as well as any of your gods.

Try to be a bit more clear in your request Mike.

Don't you think you should explain what sort of evidence you expect?
Physical evidence?
Mental?
Spiritual?

You expect to see a God looking like Jesus with the beard and long hairs?
Or maybe like a man.
Oh, no maybe something between a man and a female.
Or not, maybe like a flash of light.

What about a God that doesn't have any image or maybe all images at the same time.

I am afraid Mike that your expectations will end up (down) into nothing until you stop thinking at an eventual God external to yourself.
Personally I found God within same same as all those that since the universe exist found God in the same way.
There is no other way to find God because God is you, me, everybody and everything that exist so in order to find  (Him, her, everything) you got to look within in the same way as any other love whether is physical of mental.
God is love Mike and love does not have an image.
It is only felt and it is YOU.
The only problem is to realize all this.

[Arik]

Prove that assertion.  You don't get to just assume something like that.  While the question of the nature of consciousness is obviously not solved, there is no evidence to date to suggest that it requires more than the physical brain and the electrochemical events therein, and the current lack of a solid explanation is not license to speculate randomly.

Obviously, I need to quote myself from another thread: the only 'therefore' that follows 'we don't know' is 'we need to do more research'.  You can not get from "we don't understand how consciousness works" to "therefore it's supernatural/non-physical/other woo".  You can only follow it with "therefore we need to research consciousness further".

And without evidence, your assertion isn't worth the electrons that put it on my monitor.

All very well said brother.
I suppose your critique is addressed mostly to atheists that believe that the consciousness is a product of the brain.
Personally I have some solid argument to prove my point in saying that something abstract and superior to the brain which brain is made of matter can not be created by the matter itself.

Thanks for your argument anyway.

[Minimalist]

Don't confuse solid "argument" with solid "evidence."  I'm sure you think your reasoning is brilliant.

I doubt the audience here will agree.

[Mike Cl]

Try to be a bit more clear in your request Mike.

Don't you think you should explain what sort of evidence you expect?
Physical evidence?
Mental?
Spiritual?

You expect to see a God looking like Jesus with the beard and long hairs?
Or maybe like a man.
Oh, no maybe something between a man and a female.
Or not, maybe like a flash of light.

What about a God that doesn't have any image or maybe all images at the same time.

I am afraid Mike that your expectations will end up (down) into nothing until you stop thinking at an eventual God external to yourself.
Personally I found God within same same as all those that since the universe exist found God in the same way.
There is no other way to find God because God is you, me, everybody and everything that exist so in order to find  (Him, her, everything) you got to look within in the same way as any other love whether is physical of mental.
God is love Mike and love does not have an image.
It is only felt and it is YOU.
The only problem is to realize all this.

Come on man--we are going in circles; at least you are.  I have been nothing but plain about my stance.  I have said clearly from the beginning that material or physical is all there is.  Nothing else.  Love is based in the physical material world.  It is the result of chemicals and chemicals we are now aware of and are learning more and more how love works.  Love is NOT only felt, it is demonstrated.  And all love is not the same.  I love my wife (and has that love gone thru changes.), my dogs, my family (well, some of them), my fav sports players, my computer and computer games--and so on................None of those loves are the same.  All of those various loves is physical. 

If you had read anything that I have posted to you you must know that I don't 'expect' god to look like anything or anybody.  Do I expect faries to look a certain way?  No, how could I since they don't exist.  I do expect you to give me some evidence of any god; if you could do that then I may form an expectation of what that god looks like.  I have told you from the very start that god is a fiction and you have not give me any reason or evidence to suggest otherwise.  Just because you believe something does not mean that that is proof.  So, stop wasting our time and give us some evidence.   

[Mike Cl]

Personally I have some solid argument to prove my point in saying that something abstract and superior to the brain which brain is made of matter can not be created by the matter itself.

What in the world does this mean??????

[Baruch]

What in the world does this mean??????

Quantum entanglement shows that real physical processes are non-local.  So mental processes might be tied to the brain, but extend beyond it.  Oh, how would that be?  Typing a message for example.  My typing this is an extension of my mind, well outside my neural matter.

[Blackleaf]

The brain creating the mind is not that difficult of a concept to grasp. A computer uses a combination of 0's and 1's to create all kinds of things, like pictures, videos, text files, and video games. How do 0's and 1's produce anything but more 0's and 1's? Must be magic! No, dude. It's emergence. Sometimes when you have a group of things coming together, they equal more than the sum of their parts. No god, spirits, or magic required.

[Baruch]

The brain creating the mind is not that difficult of a concept to grasp. A computer uses a combination of 0's and 1's to create all kinds of things, like pictures, videos, text files, and video games. How do 0's and 1's produce anything but more 0's and 1's? Must be magic! No, dude. It's emergence. Sometimes when you have a group of things coming together, they equal more than the sum of their parts. No god, spirits, or magic required.

You did the usual fallacy of personalizing a non-person.  A computer doesn't do anything, it is a thing, not a person.  The programmer makes it do what it does, like a puppet.  Are you a puppet?  Didn't think so.  Emergence = secular term for magic, supernatural.   Nothing is more than the sum of its parts.  That would be denying analysis, which is denial of science itself.

[Mike Cl]

Quantum entanglement shows that real physical processes are non-local.  So mental processes might be tied to the brain, but extend beyond it.  Oh, how would that be?  Typing a message for example.  My typing this is an extension of my mind, well outside my neural matter.

I see.  Ah.  So god!!! Gotja........................

[Baruch]

I see.  Ah.  So god!!! Gotja........................

No, demi-god.  That is obvious.  That the demi-gods might be images of a G-d, that is speculative and unprovable.  Though it is plausible.  You are billions of living cells.  Are you more than that?  Or is your ego just the collective delusion of those cells, that you, MikeCL are the deity they worship?  Quantum entanglement is science, not theology.

[Baruch]

Arik ... so which of these Ashtangayoga principles do you do?

Yama, niyama, asana, pranayama, pratyahara, dharma, dhyana or samadhi?

I first experienced samadhi 7 years ago, providing me with insight that I can refer to during normal activity.

[Mike Cl]

No, demi-god.  That is obvious.  That the demi-gods might be images of a G-d, that is speculative and unprovable.  Though it is plausible.  You are billions of living cells.  Are you more than that?  Or is your ego just the collective delusion of those cells, that you, MikeCL are the deity they worship?  Quantum entanglement is science, not theology.

Spoken as the theist you are.  Yes, I am billions of living cells--more than that?  Sure.  But that has nothing to do with god or even G_D.  You just can't get past the worship part can you.  You simply have to worship something.

[Hydra009]

Personally I have some solid argument to prove my point in saying that something abstract and superior to the brain which brain is made of matter can not be created by the matter itself.

So...the brain is matter but can't be created by matter?  Seems kinda self-contradictory.

Plus, and I've noticed this thing a lot with theists, simply asserting REALLY STRONGLY that something is true doesn't actually make the case that it is true.  If anything, it just invites the audience to entertain the opposite and try to rule it out.  Can matter create brains minds?  I don't see why it couldn't, and you have yet to show why it couldn't.