The Top Earners in America should be embarrassed.

Started by Brian37, February 19, 2013, 07:14:47 AM

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Rejak

QuoteRegulation is exactly what turns capitalism into corporatism, such as what happened during the New Deal.

Actually the situation we're in right now is because of the eviceration of regulations implemented by the "new deal" in the '70s,80 90s and oughts to prevent another crash like the one in 1929 and sho nuff what happened in 2008


Those who don't learn from history are doomed to repeat it

Plu

Quote from: "Brian37"
Quote from: "Nonsensei"So food service and maintenance will be the only professions left. Thats not enough to either sustain or justify any sort of economic model or form of currency.

Still does not change that ANY job as a human you do, takes skill. Machines can replace lots of things but not humans or the skill they use every day no matter their class.

Tell that to the people who lost their job to a machine. Not everything a human does is something only a human can do. A lot of the time, it's just because biological machines are cheap and technology isn't advanced enough yet.

QuoteRegulation is exactly what turns capitalism into corporatism, such as what happened during the New Deal.

I sincerely hope you don't think that unregulated capitalism would be a better idea.

Mathias

Quote from: "Jason_Harvestdancer"Write "Corporatism is not Capitalism" 1000 times.

Write "Dogmas are for believers". As if corporatism were something out of the capitalism, I don't even saying it's the same and only that.

QuoteAlso, we've had predatory corporatism since long before the 1980s.


Wow, gunpowder was discovered!!

is easy to create sentences and say nothing about it. On the bottom line, "nada" !!!
"There is no logic in the existence of any god".
Myself.

Mathias

Quote from: "Jason_Harvestdancer"
Quote from: "Rejak"I'd  say mathias has it about right

Capitalism if not properly regulated will become corporatism in time. Corporate money corrupts the regulators then the whole system collapses. This has already happened.  What we need is a new deal!

Regulation is exactly what turns capitalism into corporatism, such as what happened during the New Deal.


And the advent of all crash came after the government stops (or at least try to) regulate the market. What is really the difference between corporatism and lobby??
"There is no logic in the existence of any god".
Myself.

Mathias

Quote from: "Rejak"
QuoteRegulation is exactly what turns capitalism into corporatism, such as what happened during the New Deal.

Actually the situation we're in right now is because of the eviceration of regulations implemented by the "new deal" in the '70s,80 90s and oughts to prevent another crash like the one in 1929 and sho nuff what happened in 2008


Those who don't learn from history are doomed to repeat it


A paradigm, not a new deal ...
"There is no logic in the existence of any god".
Myself.

Mathias

Quote from: "Plu"Tell that to the people who lost their job to a machine. Not everything a human does is something only a human can do. A lot of the time, it's just because biological machines are cheap and technology isn't advanced enough yet.

And this is one of the major problems that capitalism is facing, along with the enormous power of speculative capital, which is a rust in the gears of the economy.

QuoteI sincerely hope you don't think that unregulated capitalism would be a better idea.

Me too...
"There is no logic in the existence of any god".
Myself.

Johan

Wow. Someone sure got a button pushed by what I wrote.
Quote from: "Mathias"
Quote from: "Johan"Jobs are worth what they're worth.
Supply and demand and greed are ultimately what sets prices on the retail side. Sell for the highest price the market will allow. Supply and demand and greed are also what set the price on the wage side. Pay your labor the lowest price possible to maintain productivity and an acceptable employee turnover rate.
Says who? To me seems a fallacy of appeal to authority.
The market isn't that simple and I'm sure that a economist will tell you. The stipulation of the price and value of goods are very important and are not guaranteed simply by supply. There are advertising, sales strategies, etc..
Obviously its not as simple as I stated. I wasn't giving an economics lesson. I was simply trying to point out that one cannot realistically expect to be paid $100k/yr for a given job if there are plenty of other schmucks on the street who can perform the job just as well as you and would jump at the chance to do it for $50k/yr. This is exactly what I ran into in aviation. I consider it to be an effect of excess supply on the employee side and/or a shortage of supply on the employer side. If I'm labeling that wrong, then I apologize.

Quote
QuoteThis is how it has always been. And yes, paying more in wages then the lowest rate the job pool will allow is the same as giving a handout. If you feel you're being paid a wage that exploits you, then you have two fixes. One is near term, the other is long term. The near term fix is to move. Get out of the business (whatever business that is) and find another. Why do you think I don't fly airplanes for a living anymore? The pay sucked and the working conditions sucked. So I moved on and found something else.
If you think there are no differences between the market and the economy now and 100 years ago, I advise you to read a bit more about it. I did not know it was so easy for the U.S. working population out of a business to another. Why Bush Jr. and Obama has not said yet this brilliant idea?
I think you're reading a bit too much into what I wrote. I never said there are no differences nor would I.


Quote
QuoteAnd the long term fix? The only part of the job pool supply and demand equation we have any control over is supply. Keep it in your pants and encourage everyone you know to do the same and eventually, demand will outgrow supply in more industries and wages will therefore go up.

And the winner was Max Weber, with its Protestant ethic ... misunderstood!!
??????

Quote
QuoteBut you're not going to change what motivates decisions of large corporations.

Good thing the founding fathers didn't think this way, or the U.S. would be the "fourth world"
The founding fathers didn't have to think that way. They staged a war against their government and won and were then able to form a government of their own choosing. So I'd say the rules were bit different in their case. Unless of course you're suggesting that we do as the founding fathers did and change the rules ourselves by overthrowing the current government. In which case I'll say you go ahead and try, I'll watch.
Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false and by the rulers as useful

Mathias

Quote from: "Johan"Obviously its not as simple as I stated. I wasn't giving an economics lesson. I was simply trying to point out that one cannot realistically expect to be paid $100k/yr for a given job if there are plenty of other schmucks on the street who can perform the job just as well as you and would jump at the chance to do it for $50k/yr. This is exactly what I ran into in aviation. I consider it to be an effect of excess supply on the employee side and/or a shortage of supply on the employer side. If I'm labeling that wrong, then I apologize.

Marx called this industrial reserve army and rightly so. In this issue, for a variety of professions, so that "works" and you're right. And I apologize if demonstrated some animosity because I don't know you apologized.

QuoteI think you're reading a bit too much into what I wrote. I never said there are no differences nor would I.

From what you wrote, the impression is that there is nothing to do, except to divest.


Quote from: "Mathias"And the winner was Max Weber, with its Protestant ethic ... misunderstood!!
Quote from: "Johan"??????


I refer to a book by Max Weber on capitalism and the Protestant ethic, where he refers to a Protestant dogma of saving money, but this is contrary to the heating of the economy, or not?


QuoteBut you're not going to change what motivates decisions of large corporations.

QuoteThe founding fathers didn't have to think that way. They staged a war against their government and won and were then able to form a government of their own choosing. So I'd say the rules were bit different in their case. Unless of course you're suggesting that we do as the founding fathers did and change the rules ourselves by overthrowing the current government. In which case I'll say you go ahead and try, I'll watch.

"The founding fathers didn't have to think that way". Nor us about you think nowadays, but I was talking about personality, the use of reason for society, the search for something more selfless and supportive and fair, that the founding fathers demonstrated through deeds and not be watching the caravan pass ..
"There is no logic in the existence of any god".
Myself.