what would be an actually good reason to believe in a god.

[Blackleaf]

I'd love to ask you to explain that but I suspect the explanation would be as goofy as the assertion.

If you think that the sciences of biology and psychology are goofy, then yeah. It will be very goofy. You see, many animals live in groups. These groups remain together because of shared benefits that come from mutual understandings of what they are expected to contribute. Some of these social animals developed empathy, the ability to relate to others' suffering, in order to strengthen these mutual understandings. Humans are not the only animals with an idea of "inalienable rights." If a mother penguin loses its child and decides to kidnap another mother's chick, the whole colony will create a wall and push the offender away. Those protecting the victim have no direct gain from doing that, except knowing that the colony would protect them if the same happened to them. Elephants have empathy too, and will even mourn their dead.

Humans are little different. We are social creatures, so we draw benefits from mutual understandings of what is expected of each person. We have empathy, which keeps us from violating others and also motivates us to protect others, which in the end benefits the whole. Humans have only gone one step further by developing laws to promote harmony. Most animals have abstract, unspoken rules embedded in their instincts, but we've put those rules into specific words on paper. Again, God has nothing to do with that.

[Cavebear]

If you think that the sciences of biology and psychology are goofy, then yeah. It will be very goofy. You see, many animals live in groups. These groups remain together because of share benefits that comes from mutual understandings of what they are expected to contribute. Some of these social animals developed empathy, the ability to relate to others' suffering, in order to strengthen these mutual understandings. Humans are not the only animals with an idea of "inalienable rights." If a mother penguin loses its child and decides to kidnap another mother's chick, the whole colony will create a wall and push the offender away. Those protecting the victim have nothing no direct gain from doing that, except knowing that the colony would protect them if the same happened to them. Elephants have empathy too, and will even mourn their dead.

Humans are little different. We are social creatures, so we draw benefits from mutual understandings of what is expected of each person. We have empathy, which keeps us from violating others and also motivates us to protect others, which in the end benefits the whole. Humans have only gone one step further by developing laws to promote harmony. Most animals have abstract, unspoken rules embedded in their instincts, but we've put those rules into specific words on paper. Again, God has nothing to do with that.

You have to understand animals...

[Mike Cl]

You have to understand animals...

Yes!  For that is what humans are........................

[Baruch]

Yes!  For that is what humans are........................

We are atoms ... please give the vote to the water molecule.

[Mike Cl]

We are atoms ... please give the vote to the water molecule.

Okay--we are atoms.  So what??  How does that help us understand how we work in a society?

[Baruch]

Okay--we are atoms.  So what??  How does that help us understand how we work in a society?

Apparently since people are 70% water, and water is a polar molecule, that is why humans are so social and anti-social at the same time.  Depends on which way we approach each other.  Also our ideas are all wet ;-)

[Mr.Obvious]

Apparently since people are 70% water, and water is a polar molecule, that is why humans are so social and anti-social at the same time.  Depends on which way we approach each other.  Also our ideas are all wet ;-)

This much is true.
Also our dreams, on occasion.

[Drew_2017]

If you think that the sciences of biology and psychology are goofy, then yeah. It will be very goofy. You see, many animals live in groups. These groups remain together because of shared benefits that come from mutual understandings of what they are expected to contribute. Some of these social animals developed empathy, the ability to relate to others' suffering, in order to strengthen these mutual understandings. Humans are not the only animals with an idea of "inalienable rights." If a mother penguin loses its child and decides to kidnap another mother's chick, the whole colony will create a wall and push the offender away. Those protecting the victim have no direct gain from doing that, except knowing that the colony would protect them if the same happened to them. Elephants have empathy too, and will even mourn their dead.

I don't think any sciences are goofy...your notion we can derive unalienable rights from nature is. Animals also eat each other, fornicate with whoever is available. Some animals have offspring and eat some of them. The black widow often bites the head off of her 'mate'.

Humans are little different. We are social creatures, so we draw benefits from mutual understandings of what is expected of each person. We have empathy, which keeps us from violating others and also motivates us to protect others, which in the end benefits the whole. Humans have only gone one step further by developing laws to promote harmony. Most animals have abstract, unspoken rules embedded in their instincts, but we've put those rules into specific words on paper. Again, God has nothing to do with that.

Many humans have acted completely indifferent to the notion of unalienable rights including secular governments and religious theocracies. Just look at WWI WWII to see how friendly humans can be towards one another. If we owe our existence to naturalistic forces that didn't intend or care about us the universe is an amoral place any ideas we have about morality or rights are just opinions none of which is correct. Its odd you don't recognize the philosophical implications of your own belief.

[Baruch]

I don't think any sciences are goofy...your notion we can derive unalienable rights from nature is. Animals also eat each other, fornicate with whoever is available. Some animals have offspring and eat some of them. The black widow often bites the head off of her 'mate'.

Yes, we reject G-d, but worship guys dead for 200-300 years who wore powdered wigs ;-)

Many humans have acted completely indifferent to the notion of unalienable rights including secular governments and religious theocracies. Just look at WWI WWII to see how friendly humans can be towards one another. If we owe our existence to naturalistic forces that didn't intend or care about us the universe is an amoral place any ideas we have about morality or rights are just opinions none of which is correct. Its odd you don't recognize the philosophical implications of your own belief.

Not many here give any credit to philosophy.  They consider anything not logic, math or physical science, to be fiction.  Damn pointy eared Vulcans!

[Sorginak]

Not many here give any credit to philosophy.  They consider anything not logic, math or physical science, to be fiction.  Damn pointy eared Vulcans!

I aced all my philosophy classes throughout my schooling.  However, philosophy is not science.

Philosophy helped me to understand that god does not exist, after all.

[Baruch]

I aced all my philosophy classes throughout my schooling.  However, philosophy is not science.

Philosophy helped me to understand that god does not exist, after all.

Not Vulcan?  Romulan then?  Definitely not Klingon.

[Drew_2017]

I aced all my philosophy classes throughout my schooling.  However, philosophy is not science.

Philosophy helped me to understand that god does not exist, after all.

Your disbelief in theism is philosophical?

[Sorginak]

Your disbelief in theism is philosophical?

Indeed. 

[Blackleaf]

I don't think any sciences are goofy...your notion we can derive unalienable rights from nature is. Animals also eat each other, fornicate with whoever is available. Some animals have offspring and eat some of them. The black widow often bites the head off of her 'mate'.

Many humans have acted completely indifferent to the notion of unalienable rights including secular governments and religious theocracies. Just look at WWI WWII to see how friendly humans can be towards one another. If we owe our existence to naturalistic forces that didn't intend or care about us the universe is an amoral place any ideas we have about morality or rights are just opinions none of which is correct. Its odd you don't recognize the philosophical implications of your own belief.

Irrelevant. Your claim was that inalienable rights could not be justified without god. I just justified them to you. We, as social animals, draw collective benefit from respecting the well being of other people. We will continue to draw that benefit, with or without theism. The existence of god is entirely unnecessary. In fact, given the rich history of gods being used as excuses to violate others, I'd say that the concept of inalienable rights exists in spite of theism.

[Hydra009]

Your disbelief in theism is philosophical?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philosophical_skepticism